Soundproofing your home: ceilings and floors 

The building I live in was similar. Mid-century wood-framed apartment building with zero insulation. Sound got amplified and traveled through the framing like an acoustic guitar. We talked for a long time about what to do, and then a guy who worked in construction bought one of the apartments. Tore it down to the studs and glued an extra layer of drywall against the subfloor of the upstairs unit, between each of the ceiling joists. Put caulk around the edges of each drywall piece. So he added extra mass. Then he added insulation batts. At that time, a lot of people were still using fiberglass batts -- more people are using Rockwool now. He used fiberglass. Then he hung the new ceiling on resilient channel. It effectively cut most of the airborne noise (conversation). Maybe a little bass still gets through. He also put double drywall on the walls of his apartment. We still needed a solution on the other side of the building, so eventually, with my neighbor, we hired a pro to soundproof the bedroom ceiling. Without soundproofing, I could hear all-night snoring and other things I didn't want to hear. Our contractor had a slightly different method. Like our neighbors, he added an additional layer of mass to the underside of the upstairs subfloor between each ceiling joist, but it wasn't gypsum. It was something else, stiff but a bit more porous. And he angled it slightly. It wasn't flat against the subfloor. Then he wrapped mass-loaded vinyl around the joists and the new inserts between the joists. The mass-loaded vinyl was fastened to the joists, it wasn't just hanging like a sheet. It was form-fitting. Over that, he added insulation batts, then a resilient channel, and then a layer of soundproof drywall that had two layers of dampening inside of the gypsum to block sound. Acoustic caulk around the edges of the ceiling to fill the gap between the ceiling and the wall. It was very effective -- no more snoring, etc. It totally blocked that. The only noise that still comes through is impact noise from the floor in the downstairs unit, which I discussed in some of these videos. The impact goes through the downstairs floor joists and up through the wall studs into the upstairs floor joists, bypassing the decoupled new ceiling. You still need rugs and rug pads downstairs. Hope this helps! It's a great niche to get into and I bet you'll increase your business if you specialize in soundproofing.

Thank you! And I might pursue that idea...

@@soundproofist Two friends of mine started out in green building, namely, The Green Dream Group. They were, as am I, devoted to energy efficiency. But not enough people care. So they hold that but focus on performance. Building Performance Workshop. Then they built a great tiny house and traveled the nation with a newborn promoting the ability these days to expect proof from various building contractors. The “Proof Is Possible Tour.” Then they built a great house. Along the way they got into Indoor Air Quality (IAQ) and partnered with some scientists. And also started a TV program on PBS. All along the way they made lots of RU-vid videos, went to trade shows, were hired as HVAC design consultants and lots more. I think they would love to explore this aspect of building and you appear to have the right mix of knowledge, humility with very good communication skills. Corbett and Grace Lunsford. Home Diagnosis. Building Performance Workshop. They are developing shows and videos all the time. And they travel for shows. So reach out to them. I think that they would LOVE to discuss a real live situation with you on or off camera.

@@davidfleuchaus I agree that not enough people seem to be aware of green building/energy efficiency (or its close cousin, acoustic comfort). I started this channel because basic information (and solutions) seemed to be only available to a few people through a few consultancies, for a high price. Maybe I'll reach out to your friends, though i am not an acoustic engineer. But I do believe that people need to be informed about what causes noise issues and how to solve them as best as possible. Which crosses over into green building/materials/insulation.

@@soundproofist They are not engineers either. They are smart, passionate, dedicated people who know how to communicate well. Look into their bit and if you want me too I’ll point them in your direction.

@@davidfleuchaus They have a very interesting channel and show. Thanks for pointing them out to me. There might be some possibility.

That's also true! But this isn't an easy solution anymore, depending on where you live. Competition for housing in some cities is very competitive and the costs are getting higher. So you might not be able to get -- or afford -- a different apartment. And if you're moving to another place with shared walls or floors, you don't know until you live there what the acoustics are going to be like. Your new upstairs neighbor could be heavy-footed and get up every morning at 4 a.m.or the construction materials might be really thin and you can hear your neighbors talking clearly,, but they weren't home when you viewed the apartment the first time. My advice: try to avoid buildings from the late-1950s into the 1980s (or older buildings that got remodeled during that era with cheap materials).

@@soundproofist indeed that's very true, and thank you for all the recommendations and details, also that's exactly what I'm facing at the moment, therefor and luckily I have some savings that should help with buying a small house instead of apartment (in a calm neighbour) yesterday i was in a saloon of PVC soundproofing windows/doors and they all agreed that soundproof windows reduce the sound with around 30 dB that should be enough but i prefer the ability to open my window at anytime of the day Thank you again for the detailed information and good luck

@@memopediax4402 You're lucky to have that option. I think that housing density is often a necessity, but unfortunately the buildings weren't structured with acoustics and sound transmission considerations. The standards were created only recently, and you pay a high price for that newer construction. Retrofitting is an option if you can't move, but it can be costly. So you don't want to waste money and resources installing the wrong type of retrofit. My apartment building used to have aluminum windows, which were absolutely horrible. The building management replaced them years ago with double-paned retrofits (with vinyl frames). Although the noise reduction and climate control was better than before, I wish that more options for noise had been known or available at that time. Glass thickness, gap width, extra membranes, and type of insulation around the framing can make a huge difference. Our retrofit windows sometimes seem powerless against certain external street and construction noise.

Thanks!

Thank you!

A cement ceiling? What type of structure is this and what era? Is the noise issue mostly coming from impact noise (like footfalls)? Or are you getting some airborne noise also (like conversation)? I'm guessing that it might be impact noise. If so, it seems like the best way to address that is with your upstairs neighbor, who might have uncarpeted floors and maybe even some laminate on top of the concrete floor with insufficient (or no) absorbent layer underneath the planks. The HOA board member, unfortunately, expresses an attitude that I've heard about from other people: no empathy, not a problem solver, but simply states "that's life in an older building" or "that's life in the city" as if the only option was to endure. Have you tried talking to the neighbor? And if the HOA and the upstairs neighbor are completely unwilling to help you problem-solve, I suggest getting the services of a professional mediator (and this is different from getting a lawyer).

@@soundproofist All impact noise. It's a 12-unit condo from 1992. The floors/ceilings have concrete in between the units. Brick exterior with wood framed walls. I originally spoke with my neighbors who said they would try to be quieter (there has been no one living below them for two years) but that didn't work. Eight weeks after that I spoke with the HOA board member who told me that they would not be speaking with the tenant upstairs but instead told me how I could put up sound blocking curtains and buy plush furniture. I'm not sure why this is my issue to deal with? Anyways, I then mentioned I would probably decouple my bedroom ceiling at my own expense. I was told that the ceiling is part of the building structure and I cannot drill into it. So I'm just meant to suffer, I guess. I spoke with lawyer who said that judges don't like these kinds of cases. That I would have to provide proof of the neighbors being a nuisance and at that point may not even win. I haven't heard of a professional mediator.

@@drea3071 The advice your HOA board member was incorrect. Plush furniture and "sound blocking" curtains won't help you with incoming impact noise that's structure-borne. These might only help absorb airborne noise within your own home. Not impact noise coming from outside your home. Even if you *could* add a resilient channel ceiling in your home (which would be very expensive), I'm not sure if that would completely mitigate the impact noise. I've found that some of those ceilings are more effective for airborne noise because impact noise doesn't just go through the immediate ceiling, but into the rest of the building frame, so it can go from your neighbor's floor joists into your walls. The issue is most likely the source of the impact -- your neighbor's flooring. And that they haven't had to deal with a downstairs neighbor for two years. I'm not sure if you live in the US, but try browsing through Mediate-dot-com to see if there are any practitioners near you.

It sounds like most of your noise issues are impact noise, not airborne noise, and it's passing from their structure into yours. You said your home is one level, but you have an attic? Is the attic on the same level to the floor where the kids play? You might need a decoupling solution for the shared wall and possibly your bedroom ceiling, though I'm not sure.

I'm not sure I understand what you mean by "creating a new second ceiling using the wall joists for the framing." You would have to hang new drywall from the ceiling, not the wall. But I think what you're wondering about is if you can add a resilient channel under your existing ceiling, without demolishing it, and then hang a new layer of drywall on the resilient channel. Is that correct? I'm doubtful about its effectiveness against impact noise or low-frequency noise. Maybe -- like inserting an extra layer of plexiglass to a window -- it might reduce some conversation noise and mid-frequencies. But flanking noise could still travel through the existing (attached) ceiling through the joists and wall studs.

@@soundproofist Let me explain - I am talking about constructing a new and separate ceiling about 6" below the existing ceiling without touching the existing ceiling. The new ceiling would be created by 2 x 4 joists that would be connected to the wall studs using "L" clamps. The second ceiling would be filled with insulation R13 or R19 leaving about an inch of air space from the existing ceiling. The second ceiling would be finished off using 5/8" sheet rock. Does this make sense? any insights? Thanks

@@JohnDoe-pe6iu I don't know how this might work out if you don't support the second set of joists on a sill of some kind. I"m sure a structural engineer might have fits over it. But I know a few people who live in Victorian apartments with tall ceilings and upstairs neighbors who might be interested in the outcome.

Thanks for your questions and for the link to the promotional video. Very interesting -- and too bad they don't ship or sell to the US. I think what you're trying to do is to avoid demolition, since that would be very disruptive (and more expensive). Just hiring someone to do a full demo and decoupling of a ceiling in one room could cost about $20k, at least where I live. And I think adding a second layer of drywall to a WALL (not a ceiling) with isolation clips has been done with some good results -- but often it's on a party wall between two units. So the frequency and type of noise might be different in that case. There's less impact noise, but more conversation and music with bass. What I don't know is how a modification like this affects the IIC (Impact Insulation Class) and if adding more drywall with isolation clips (without decoupling the original ceiling) will create -- as you say -- a "triple leaf" effect and amplify the impact sound rather than reduce it. I don't have a definitive answer at this time, but it's a good question. Like, will it reduce all the noise enough to make it bearable, or make it worse. Or will it mask out all other types of sound (airborne, for example) leaving only the impact noise, which through isolation could become even more noticeable.

Hello friend I am in a very similar situation.....I cringe every time the impact sound starts day and night. Is adding a second ceiling without tearing open the existing ceiling an option? I have high ceilings and am planning an creating a new second ceiling using the wall joists for the framing of the second ceiling. In effect the two ceilings will have about an inch of air space, following by insulation and dry rock thereby in effect "decoupling" the two ceilings. Any thoughts?

@@JohnDoe-pe6iu This may help some, but do not expect a miracle. Go in with measures expectations. Unfortunately, its a nasty problem that has no easy solutions. From personal experience, the noise comes through the walls, the ceiling, the bones of the structure. Even after these types of decoupling and layered ceilings are built, I have found its nearly impossible to solve the problem completely. These projects are expensive and also disruptive, so they are risky. best case, you will get maybe a 50 percent improvement, and worst case a 5-10 percent gain. So, a realistic bet is maybe a 25 percent quality of life improvement after a lot of money and work. You have to decide if that is worth it. Carpets on offending surface above help nearly as much as decouplings. It is just a hellish problem that requires a tear down and re build of the whole building to really address properly. I say this after spending 5k on one test room myself. Its just nearly impossible to fix after the fact. Ambient noise can be addressed, but impact noise not so much. One silver limning, after a year of misery, I have acclimated and do not think about like I used too. I thought that was impossible given how I felt the first 6 months. Talking to the upstairs neighbors and them adjusting their habits also helped. Going forward, impact noise will affect my living decisions after this experience however. Older buildings, especially condos, are very troublesome and should be vetted.

Hi. Mass-loaded vinyl might be good at blocking conversation noise, but it doesn't soften impact noise. Concrete is good for blocking conversation and other airborne noise, but when combined with a hard surface on top (like tile or wood) it's going to transmit impact noise unless there's an impact-absorbing material in-between. Although cork seems to be the usual choice, from my personal experience and with unofficial tests, it seems like it's less effective than a softer material like felt or other types of fabric batts, such as thick carpet padding, which is made of soft composite. I've also started looking at materials from a company called American Acoustical Products, which offers a sound-dampened wood for subfloors. Gym mats might help, short term. I put gym mats under the file cabinets in my apartment when a downstairs neighbor complained about the sound of the metal drawers rolling open and banging shut. Long term, I'm not sure if adding another layer of wood flooring on top of your existing laminate will help as much as removing the laminate and starting from scratch. Otherwise that laminate could continue to move, creak, and send noise downstairs. How large is the space? One thought is that removing the laminate, adding a sound-dampening layer of subfloor, then a soft layer of underlayment and then wood plank finish might be the way to go. Look at The Soundproofing Company site (their URL includes "soundproofingcompany") because they show some diagrams of possible solutions and you can call them and talk to an expert. NOTE: Be careful not to go to similarly named websites that are simply Amazon Affiliate shells (there are a lot of them, now).

@@soundproofist thanks for the detailed reply and suggestions. Right, the impact noise seem to be the main problem. I’ll look into it more before investing in the long term solution (which we will remove the existing wood finish floor and start from scratch). Looking forward to more videos from this channel. :) Happy Christmas!

Yes, it's the low-frequency noise that's the most aggravating and it also goes right through the walls. How far away is this neighbor? Do you have any rooms that are "quieter," or does the noise just permeate everywhere? Have you tried asking your neighbor to lower the volume? I'm guessing that they're not receptive and probably fully aware of how loud it is. I have a similar issue with an unreceptive neighbor who throws loud parties and has a loud stereo system with tons of bass. This neighbor is only about 30 feet away, and thinks it's funny. The double-drywall on the walls that face this neighbor (adding a 2nd layer with Quiet Rock/ Green Glue) does help. (Maybe I need to make a new video to show how much.) My window is not that great and it needs an additional plexiglass insert. Nothing is 100%, but incremental changes can make a difference. Depends on your budget and if you own or rent. And if you own, how much construction (or demolition) you can tolerate. Remember that mass and decoupling (or at least adding viscosity) are your friend in this instance.

Hi -- it sounds like you're the upstairs neighbor and you're getting noise from your downstairs neighbor, is that correct? The issue here is similar and it's best blocked at the source (which is downstairs). That might not be feasible, and I have had a similar situation. The solutions include a drop ceiling in your neighbor's apartment (expensive, probably not an option), which prevents airborne noise from rising into your apartment). A more affordable solution would be for your neighbor to put sound panels on the ceiling in their apartment -- for example, in a color that matches or is attractive on the ceiling color. These are available from Audimute in the US, and much more affordable than a new ceiling (maybe $35 per panel), but your neighbor might not be agreeable. It's not fully soundproof, but absorbs a lot of noise. If the neighbor's ceiling is hollow, blowing in cellulose fiber insulation also adds additional muting. This won't eliminate bass tones or impact noise, however.... the latter (impact noise from floor) requires a thick rug. This was a long answer and I realize everything I proposed thus far needs to start with your neighbor. There might be things you can do to your own apartment that can help, which I can list later, but please state what kind of noise you're getting, first.

@@soundproofist thanks for the reply I want drown any noise I make so my neighbour below can't hear me. I also want to drown out any noise from his apartment, like talking, TV etc. I will have to do the noise reduction from my end as my neighbour has mental health issues.

@@Chris-kr7gg I had a similar issue, which wasn't fully resolved until I got my neighbors to agree to a modification, which I helped to pay for, and which required the help of a mediator. However, I also made modifications to my own apartment, which involved blow-in insulation (cellulose) into my walls, doubling up some of the walls with QuietRock and Green Glue, and even playing ambient music at a low volume. The part I couldn't control was the downstairs ceiling and the noise rising through my floor until my neighbors agreed to decouple the ceiling one room, at least. The flooring in most of my apartment is almost entirely tile, which was laid on top of the original flooring by the previous resident who was also bothered by the constant noise from below, and he incorrectly thought it would help to block it. Of course, tile makes it worse. And it would require serious demolition to remove it. If you have more flexibility with your flooring, you could consider decoupling it from the subfloor or joists and use a dampened floor material. I have not used these products yet myself but for starters, look into American Acoustical Products at www.aapusa.com.

That's why asking the neighbors to use carpets with a thick carpet pad is often the "best" solution. Many landlords are unlikely to spend the money to fix the problem, and if they do, the rent will probably go higher.

OMG! I thought the same thing. I loved this narration :)

@@iandonahue8280 I actually hear that a lot. Wish I could do a podcast episode with her so we could compare.