South Africa's FW De Klerk on apartheid, Mandela and Ramaphosa - BBC Africa 

@@muffinatordlux Black people are being murdered every day. What's keeping you in South Africa. Go to Europe. It's perfect. Just give the land back before you leave.

@@listenup2882 what land you idiot? i came after apartheid. . . i worked for everything. took a bond and bought a house. i will burn this house to the ground before i give it away. v0kjoup0es. corona kom vir julle... wag n bietjie...

muffinatordlux muffinatordlux you seem rational AF you’re the type of whites that are tolerable really. Sad to hear about all that has happened to you and your loved ones. Have you tried moving to another state? I’m black and I fear places like Durban and jozi those places are in the news almost everyday. I agree with most of the things you’ve stated, I honestly fear and feel bad for the great hardworking white SAns I’ve met. Mandela’s dream is now outdated a lot of black people hate him now he fought for a peaceful end of apartheid but people misinterpreted that to revenge. Billions of rands go missing but they cant compensate farmers.The main issues is SAn people wanting revenge even tho it won’t be beneficial because the ANC are much of the problem. The ANC steals billions but let their people blame "foreigners" for almost anything there’s a lot of things they ignore.

Nonsense

@@riisk6146 there arent many jobs outside the big cities. the government really neglects the rural areas... lack of water.. lack of power... the roads are wasted... but there are some nice fatcat Anc houses in the rural areas. best one i saw was on the way to ngodwana.. they have power but no sewerage... homelands.. some shacks and then in the middle of them a double story tuscan style house with 3 garages with mercs inside.. outside next to the house is a fancy 4 station longdrop... everyone in his hometown must know he did well... yet he will never invest into his own town... point of the story.. corruption has broken our economy.. our industry is wasted.. the power stations are falling apart ( seen it myself) the new power stations are over budget and have startup issues... look at the life esidameni scandal.. look how many black people died and the ways they died ( that was like last year or so) because of corruption... people died so others could profit.... but no its de klerks fault... o ya we just hit recession and the rand is tanking... we are burning down our universaties... it seems just illogical to stay anymore.. i can vouch for many whites here we are anxious and depressed.. locked inside our houses .. prisoners of our own enviroment.. cant walk down the street or go anywhere without always watching ur back.. get home.. close gate. close doors when dark. lock security.. put alarm on.. wake up at 2am to gunshots a few streets away and just be glad it wasnt u tonight.

Credit is due to this man.

Yes, and? It seems natural that a man whose conscience weighed on him to end Apartheid might at some point make a public apology for his earlier support of the system.

You have to understand the nuance of things. Apartheid was the norm for white South Africans at the time. He lost all his support base when he decided to end apartheid. He didn't start the system, and it was his conscience that actually ended it. You can see the visuals of people walking out of the SA parliament when he announces the end of the system. You have to give him credit.

@@srd7 NOPE! he had no choice! South Africa was ostracized and sanctioned by the world at the time: our teams, particularly rugby, couldn't play internationally w/o riots and protests in a said country. He was forced into submission.. it's like a paedophile admitting his crimes on his death bed after gaslighting you for 24years! Way too little too late ! He was saving his ass in the eyes of history.. then he calls Black ppl racist??👀😹😹😹 ridiculous!

It was not conscious it was pressure

Don't fall for it 🤞

@@lethukuthulamhlongo4069 That's hardly a rational, reasoned argument. You've merely used rhetoric to dismiss the clear, unambiguous words of a highly capable and competent former president. Here's Mandela in his own words ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-oTIeqLem67Q.html

@@lethukuthulamhlongo4069 don't fall for what ❓

@@lethukuthulamhlongo4069, oh, another wig wearing "culture" boetie.

What were you expecting? A guy talking about blacks not being worthy of an education beyond their station? That black people are inferior? You know the things his National Party stood for and implemented over decades. And which only ended because of the country's access to international financial markets being cut off as their ability to bust sanctions ended due to the work Terry Crawford Brown and other activists. Conscience driven? If you believe that, then find out more about the subject. The game was up. In the end all he did was hold a referendum. I suppose that wasn't nothing and hey, at least Apartheid wasn't as bad as genocide, right?

that happens when you are a born traitor n life

My friend it depends who and how you write history because remember history is always written by the victors '''the losers'''

@@dawiemeyer1630 really sad how you wanted apartheid to continue how can opression on one person be so liked and cherished by other are we as black people that disgusting to you white people

@@katlegoramz3588 Please don't lump all white people into the same category. I'm white, and I don't hate you. As far as I'm concerned your my complete equal.

I based on this comment... really feel for Mr De Clerk. A man can only try so much. Almost the same as Zuma.

Any answer that depicts De Klerk either as a pure villain who was purely forced by circumstance into ending Apartheid, or as a pure saint who ended Apartheid purely out of conscience, is a simplistic one and therefore false.

All wants are forced by circumstances, so there is no difference between the statements.

He was right in his own right.Clever as he was,he ensured the change must come

I agree 100 %. We should not have an extremist position here.

ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-hIEvZNvSEw0.html

What you say is sad but true. South Africa could have been a much better place today, if Zuma never existed. He nourished a corrupt and incompetent state. If he had any respect for those who gave their lives in the struggle against Apartheid, he would have acted with respect and decency within the confines of the rule of law. He is nothing more than a selfish barbarian who established an incompetent and corrupt state dependent on patronage for its own internal survival. That is his legacy, much worse than FW de Klerk..

I appreciate this comment so much.

SA, is a mess it will take all the people to fix it

@Mark Corfield No doubt the white-led system produced some excellent socioeconomic outcomes for those who happened to be born with the right amount of melanin. And I can understand the frustration of those who take your view. I have a question, though: what if the white leaders of old had had the foreknowledge that the blacks would be in charge one day? What kinds of policies would they have used toward the black populace? I'm talking about social policies, education, economic inclusion etc? I would venture to say you would have a far more educated population, a far more competent and experienced ruling class than currently exists in South Africa, and far less poverty. As a result, the voters would probably have no time for people like Zuma and Malema. We have already learned that the subjugation of one group by another is not a sustainable policy. So even if the whites took back control tomorrow, they would still have to deal with all these issues constructively. In short, I believe in judging leaders by their policies and actions, and how those in turn affect the lives of ordinary people. It's not as black-and-white as you seem to think.

You have hit the nail on the head my good friend. Please.. if you live on SA go in to politics you have a lot more understanding than these crooks in power now.

Reparations? Where have you been... the whole country was handed over. Whites have no political representation, less jobs, land has been given over, towns streets cities renamed.. the ruling class has taken huge amounts of public money that belonged to you, let infrastructure go to ruin, public institutions and companies bankrupted...all because of hubris and hate like your message suggests...

@Sam • Mandela was a godsend. He ended legal racism in my country, however I cannot stand to see my grandparents and older family get tormented for simply existing in a country they call home because they are white and get blamed for all problems in the country.

@Sam • I didn’t even live when it was apartheid so how can I be blamed?

@Sam • you are blaming him. Pretty obviously I might add.

@Sam • you said that we must all pay for what white people did

@OK Superman well, he's probably chilling in his 'fire pool' 😂

Say no more

well you got your wish

What about julias ?

This aged well for zooma

That's nonsense man apartheid was crime against humanity

Sibongile Nyamane he ended apartheid

Ja... lmao

You got the nerve to speak rubbish here .

This murderer should be rotting in jail

Is is difficult to agree with your narrative. The was of course pressure from the international community on SA in the context of sanctions. Such a pressure was very instrumental in the transitions and negotiations

@@TryphosaSiweya but still it's not like it was enough pressure for him and his cabinet, I mean like the others such as Pik Botha he could've chosen to ignore and let the minorities suffer while he selfishly benefited but out of them all De Klerk chose to do the right thing not that he's that of a hero but at least unlike the others he took the first step to freedom and that was just enough for the change we needed until today

He tried though shame

The national party chose this thing because of his hatred towards blacks. He's been participating in the oppression of black people ever since he joined that party. He still reminisces apartheid that's why he said it was not a crime against humanity. You can write what you want but he's an apartheid apologist and should be treated as such.

Yah maybe maybe not

Well... at that time, black people were given the vote because the white people of that time voted for it to happen. Black people had no input over whether they would get to vote or not.

Chances are she didn't listen to the interview.

I feel you bro

Most frustrating thing ever!!

Which boys?

Our Boys...came home to nothing.

@@Mo-yd8xc They boys who went to war in the 80's

​@@Mo-yd8xcStompie

Absolutely 👍

Your totally correct.

You do not read

"With our box of matches and our necklaces we shall free South Africa" A Mandela said that, one who was even closer to Nelson than FW de Klerk. By this argument the bomber of children is just as bad as de Klerk

It's true FW did his best to avert catastrophe in this country credit must be given where it's due.

@@elsiesphiwe768 that is called damage control. To get a good picture who this evil man really was talk the old folks South Africans born before 1980, or watch on RU-vid skids of apartheid South Africa DE Clerk army forces beating on innocent South Africans like dogs, or better yet go visit with South African families who lost loved ones at the hand of De Clerk for example Dr. Steve Biko

Wake up, ppl like u are how Europeans colonized Africa, that man isn't sincere he's deceptive

@@555125kevin no you're just a moron.

@@555125kevin You are right!

@@555125kevin your username is literally the symbol of the AWB. Wat ‘n fokken doos man

It comes from that thug malema and nkandla president

Does a genuine man have an affair and cheat on his wife?

He doesn't even live in SA anymore. He knew the shit that was coming.

@@melon9680 where’s he living now? All I can find is that it says he lives in cape town

Was the something wrong with Apartheid.....the lifestyles are really different, only in 1982 it escalted to being a problem guess who was the minister of Home Affairs 🤔🤔

@@melon9680 where does de Klerk currently live now?

What do you expect tho? After centuries of conquest and denial of basic human rights. It's more of a resentment than hatred.

So the right to life, the reverence of life was introduced to Africa by Europeans? I bet you also believe that the concept of civilisation was also introduced to Africa by the very same Europeans when there where pre- Rhodesian (colonial) civilisations as great Zimbabwe, which they tried to deny was built by Africans

You're straight up racist & backwards if I'm being polite.

@@desciplesofthomassankara3021 You have to let that shit go, especially if it isn't fixing anything. You can't blame white people in 2020 for what white people did in the 1800's. The hatred and division will not accomplish anything.

Not if we're still living under the status quo & we're still grappling with the after effects. There is little hatred and great resentment and disillusionment. So it's easy to say that when you live off generational privilege facilitated by a racist government that favoured your ancestors to make sure that the status quo remained even after it was overthrown.

Correct - apartheid would od ended - WITH BLOOD SHED

from what plannet are you? you came here to say what? even a fool is seen as a wise man had he kept quiet.

@Sam • Ja Albert Einstein was swart, dom donner.

@@waltherziemerink your.. we .. dont include black people and you know that !!

Neo-1 We should touch you racist bastards then

Cancer got him now.

His not that old. But had a deep voice

I agree with you brother

Say that to Dr. Steve Biko family, you guys are naive very easily swayed, so this 7 minutes skid is giving you nothing but positive vibes about an evil man that terrorized black South Africans killing blacks like dogs day and night.

@@antonykariuki3199 Yeah..he almost got me there, for a second. Then I remembered what he represented..and the evils he and his government, and previous Apartheid governments, perpetrated on the black population. For some reason, his supposed epiphany that Apartheid is wrong does not make me see him any differently.

She thinks she is superior..but in fact suffers an inferiority complex

And I have to give it to FDW de Klerk the way he answered those question, you can tell that he was a good man and he speaks the truth

Yet SA has only sunk further and further. Clearly what we are doing is not working. Of course the intelligent few who know what must be done have no say when the moronic masses vote for incompetent bigoted and corrupt politicians.

Yes u are soooo right

Fuck him he sold out my beautiful country to the communists

Not you I’m talking about fw de Klerk

Myb she was a victim of apartheid 😉

That seems to be the style of journalism at the moment. Biased black female interviewers being unnecessarily rude to older white people. I think they get a thrill out of it. I believe it is born out of their own insecurity.

@@frankie7529 you come off as very paranoid

@@Mo-yd8xc I probably am. Living as a minority in a country where the majority feels entitled to discriminate against minorities will do that to you.

@@frankie7529 I LIVE IN AmeriKKKa TELL ME ABOUT IT. LMBAO

True, he should be commended for this ,may he rest in peace.

He had no option

Lengau Mosotho oh please! The ANC has no idea on how to even spell accountability! De Klerk did take responsibility!!! That’s why it ended

@@richard6000 So the ANC's lack of accountability is a free pass for De Klerk and apartheid? How is ending it accountability for what it did?

@@lengaumosotho What did Apartheid honestly do?

I'd argue that Churchill, Stalin & Hitler top that list

@@tsiyon12 valid point

@@tsiyon12 valid point but thing with Gorbachev, De Klerk and Rabin is they made changes (or tried to make changes in Rabin's case) because they saw things had to change not for themselves but for future generations, they made immense sacrifices to which non of the other three were capable of because it wasn't in their character. Hitler, Stalin and Churchill were all megalomaniacs and antagonistic war leaders, but where the second World War failed to bring the collapse of the USSR, 46 years later internal democratic changes such as Perestrioka and Glasnost would. With the collapse of the USSR the chances of an ever present global nuclear holocaust occuring greatly (not completely)reduced and for that Gorbachev I believe deserves the main credit for. Throughout the 70s and 80s apartheid South Africa was a constant hurtful reminder of man's most inner discriminatory nature. What De Klerk did was to break this and to show the whole world that this inner nature of hate can infact be changed. This along with what Rabin attempted to do can not be understated because what they did was to show really nothing can be accomplished without a peaceful resolution, living in a constant state of war for whatever reason is a losing battle which future generations will always pay a heavy price for.

Hogwash.

You are talking nonsense

@@nkosinathi7645 Elaborate

He was instructed to by Afrikaaner business.

@@mdumiseninsibande3071 Fine, he was president. He could have refused if he didn't want to.

ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-hIEvZNvSEw0.html

LIke Gorbatchev he gave away his own power to allow for much more freedom. If others later use the freedom badly it is not his fault. It si easy to give away someone elses power but thsi man gave up his own (without fighting or trying to cheat).

So profound... (a Lotta people don't get this)

Why do you say so? The man did his best to bring down apartheid. What else do you expect from him?

@@kaleomariz1000 was he held accountable in any way? Nope, he worked until pension age and continues to make his money. Meanwhile young white South Africans pay off apartheid debt. We are subjected to BEE. Our children have few opportunities, cannot get into medicine etc. The wrong people are paying back the debt. The old white people sit with the money and land. Oh and by the way in only a few hands.

Denise I am sorry, I didn’t understand what was point you were trying to make. 🤔

@@kaleomariz1000 🤣🤣🤣

He seems to be used by who knows what ...

And he fled the country knowing full well the shit state it was going to descend into. He knew the ANC was bad news. Look at SA now, a shithole filled with standardless dumbshits, corruption and decay.

Because Shit was about top pop.!!

Economically he didn't do justice for black people, he made sure to keep the economy in the hands of white people.

One could ask, why should black people celebrate De Klerk because the negotiations were an economic compromise for black people

@@epicpolitik3608 well, uh, that's an easy excuse to make. When your the one who invented the economy, built a country and all its systems, it no surprise that you'd be the one to make the most of it. Plus, the current government has done next to nothing on actually moving their own people forward. Kept them in the same old mindset since forever. Didn't teach them how to also make the most of it and instead, kept it for themselves and thus they are now filthy rich with their fingers in everything. This idea that whites are supposedly on the same team, and keeping Africans out of the economy is stupid and a lazy wat to go about thinking of it all. Like how religious people are lazy to think so it's easy to say God makes it rain when we all learnt how it actually works in fken grade 3.

What did he do?

But you think if civil war occurred will white people still be here since their minority?

dream on

They all are. Would see them both locked up.

He’s gone now.

What did u expect

He killed Hector Peterson.

Apartheid was just whites protecting everything they had built. Anti-apartheid was blacks demanding a piece of everything whites had built.

Better now

that foundation is a smoke screan

100% agreed. Its not enough.

but since it was white blood they don't care

who did Malema kill? Prove it

@@busisiweseybokwe7735 Malema encourages killing. You have heard him singing “Kill the boer” he cannot say that straight because it would be a dead give away, so he hides it by saying “Kiss the boer” Malema likes to stir up tension in South Africa, don’t get me wrong, as a White man I love hearing about United Africa, single African currency, collapse of the fake borders the European set on us, but I am willing to forget that if it means protecting my people. Under Malema I would be of no nation, I would be a loner. Why should I deal with that? What have I done? All I’ve done is be born into a Democratic country. I don’t hate De Klerk for instance, he was the president who helped break up Apartheid, but he should’ve ended it right away. He should’ve truly made Black and White unite. The British and Afrikaaners used to fight a ton, but slowly they started chipping away at the hatred and soon peace took over. Now it must happen again.

@Atyanth Dutt yeap, Mandela would’ve known what to do. But he isn’t here anymore.

@@TamimLB so this is evident that Malema is a killer who did he send to go and kill?

You know zero about life - except perhaps how it is in your big city tower --- nobody is born equal --- how can you possibly compare your opportunities with that of a young Somali, young Zimbo, young Abbo.----- tell you what, - come and live in Jolly J for 6 months -- don`t bother with a return ticket.

Well sad mr Johnson

@@amukelanimaseko4670 it's SAMPSON not Johnson, but thank you for your comment.

Thanx mr Sampson for correcting me and one thing for sure ,In our life time as part and parcel of all the processes of history making for the upcoming generations we need positive people like you, so that we won't have a regrettable future like what was done by the minority white South African when they orchestrated apartheid system

@@mikehudson8938 I have no idea what you are on about. I was born into poverty in South Africa in 1943 and had to do what it took to get anywhere under a Fascist regime. And yes, I did manage and ended up where I aspired to be. I focus on my country and the problems we know about and what to do to solve them. You response is permeated with assumptions that you could never back-up with facts. You don't even know me and what my past life was like. So, what are you trying to say?

It is more than deserve or not the Nobel Prize. He recognises and profess apartheid was wrong, apartheid was morally unjustified. The greatness of human beings lies in their ability to recognise their own shortcoming, their own mistakes. It is more than the Nobel Prise because it is good for his soul. The body that receive prizes is made to perish, the soul is what remains.

Willingly gave up power? Hardly. It took concerted decades long domestic and international pressure to get South Africa to turn its back on Apartheid. A key factor which led to the ending of Apartheid was the removal of SA's ability to bust sanctions after which De Klerk had no option. And even though he later retracted the statement he argued that Apartheid wasn't a crime against humanity because it's not genocide. Nice one. I guess he feels Apartheid wasn't that bad. Give that man a Nobel prize.

@@gazesalso645 What about CUBA, decades of repressions , etc haven't undermined the determination of Castro's regime. The Castro's regime has failed to subordinated itself to the interest of the whole. Look at the countries which were supporting the apartheid regime in South Africa. The greatness of the human being also resides in its capacity to know when to subordinate its own greatness to the freedom of the whole. The oppressors, the dictators are immature beings and inhabited by evil.

@@clementgavi7290 Clement what has Cuba got to do with the fact that Apartheid policy in South Africa was not economically sustainable due to sanctions busting coming to an end as a result of activists? De Klerk not recognising the work of activists is one thing and entirely predictable for any head of state who might face jail time if he was honest and recogised his role in a crime against humanity. Ja Apartheid was terrible etc. but that had nothing to do with me. In fact my party changed laws to make things hunky dory. Really? So no, he's hardly recognised his own shortcomings. Why you would buy his side of the story only suggests you don't know the other side. Anyway, I'm sure De Klerk sleeps very well at night with a clear conscience even though he was, for example, part of State Security Council meetings where he had command control over murders of anti-Apartheid activists. My friend, it so happens doesn't sleep so well. His father was tortured and murdered by the State at the time De Klerk was attending SSC meetings.

We still don't know what was their agriment between him & Mandela

SA had MANY international sanctions, to the point where they werent allowed to play sports against anyone and werent allowed to trade with EU nations. in a nutshell they were held by the balls for many years,they HAD TO they had NO choice. of he didnt SA was gonna turn into a full fledged 3rd world country

@@Kat-ot4gt how ironic look at SA today and with out sanctions 🤣🤣

who ended Apartheid? I think everyone knows if you know your history. It was this man.

You are talking nonsense

@@nkosinathi7645 to you it's nonsense but at that time, sacrifices had to be done.

@Bielie Van Die Bosveld Stop lying! White South Africans are literally the only people in the world that believe this delusion. You Are A Racist Society. That's why you can't even integrate everywhere you go around the world: people dislike you BC you're ridiculously RACIST! Stop lying on Black ppl.. your ppl have caused enough trauma! It's disgusting of you to further gaslight ppl this way!

@Bielie Van Die Bosveld 👀

AMEN U is 'n God geleerde persoon. Daar is meer van U nodig in die land, dalk in die werêld. GOD seën U.

Yep, you are correct. What will? I just think stopping the deaths that could have come is something to be considered. @user-ju5uo8mq1u

Nice to watch the Boks send the Lions home with their tail between their legs.

@Peggy Wiley 🌹🥀true dad

David Miles that’s scratching the surface bro...thousands and thousands of years of slavery and your gonna talk about 6 friends of yours? ...billions?playboy you guys had hundreds of years in privileges...equate it to today’s money and come and do the comparison again...for the numbers of years people of color have been free, I say we are doing damn good especially cause we ain’t keeping anyone in a cage to achieve what we wanna achieve. Stop with the victim card...nobody buys it.

David Miles 2 billion rand that’s equivalent to 10 million $ that’s little even by Somalia standards. Lol!.

You say thousands? You may be right. You know why? Because slavery did not even have to be introduced by the whites. They just advantage of what had been there before they came. And what was that? Exactly, no such a thing as black solidarity back then. In fact for the first 300 years or so whites did not even had to leave their ships to obtain slaves. All of great pre-colonial states of Africa had slavery as a constituent way of rule.

@@brmf4346 I am not sure who in africa you are referring to? As far as I know, africans were governed by kingship and they were under a certain leader without being forced to do so. I am not sure where the slavery was there...England has such a system? Are those people under the queen slaves? And if so, would it be right for Asians, Africans or Indians to come take some away from their homes and away to sea to never return again?not to mention also not giving them any piece of what ever is achieved by the slave master? Remember? There's a difference between being a servant to your king and being a slave...

From the same place every human being is from. - Africa

@@beerstein7137 They must have gone somewhere before their return to Africa. Why the change in attitude toward Africa/African?

@@emmanuelchinedu8094 De Klerk was born in South Africa, so were his parents, grandparents great grandparent, great great grandparents etc. He is a white African.

You sound so funny. Are you a comedian? There was never anything like 'white African'. Any white in Africa came from somewhere. I know it's hard for you to swallow.

@@beerstein7137 You sound funny. Every white in Africa came from somewhere. There was never anything like 'white African'

Knowing that Malema is lying about De Klerk makes me sad. De Klerk might have been one of the best leaders ever. He prevented a civil war, something Malema seems unable or willing to do but he's only able to encourage violence

ANC and EFF never masacered people, never opressed anyone like white people did. Cannot make comparison.

Apartheid was heaven, everything worked even blacks 😉

Jean, although I'm more or less same page as you,,, but,, to say , move on , forget, etc, peoples mindsets, are not, where u think they at,,eg I was blogging now now with this black guy,, he seemingly thinks I'm white" just cause, I made conversation with him, and lied abt being white,, instead of him reading my response to ,his blog, all he could say is , go to cold soul of Europe ,get out, "unquote, its really pointless, , I say GOD OWNS ALL EARTH,LAND SEAS, EVETTTHING, I said if he's a superior race,, I rest my case..

What's really sad, is this , certain race,, dont like apartheid gone! They're saying that ,having 25 to 30vyrs to ,,build housing for a massive population was time enough , to house ,everyone, and to build more hospitals was time enough! They say , to make job creation was time enough! So then,vwhere EXACTLY does ,, the blame lie? Cause ,,, itsva continuation. Of apartheid , ways ,! This,is very ,sad, for each and every south African, , , speechless.

@@nubiacode4313 sorry but you are wrong and you are also right.

Beneficiary ,,,could mean lots of things,,, again you are right, but you are also wrong.

Like you respect Afrikaners eh?.... Righto...

What struggles lol

Shufti Pplonk what’s there to respect about thieves, rapists and robbers?

Gavin Maritz hey futsek wena, dabadaba! 😂

Only "struggles " you ever had is stupidity. I am quite sure you were not even born during appartheid

Hard not to hold a grudge when the suffering affected many generations. Not forgetting that the issue of land has still not been attended to. How can you not keep a grudge when those who oppressed the nation act like it happened 300 years ago and not just 28. You sound foolish and probably would've been one of those spies against the fight for liberation.

Fucken damn straight I would have survival of the fittest Cheat and steal exactly like your current government, this land thing is all smoke screens to bigger issues

What are you doing here then, Indian?

Kinda. And just like Gorbachev, he is hated for doing the right thing.

Yes but you seem to forget that the police and army could have just mowed them down en masse justike mugabe did against masses of dissenters after 2000

Yes, but that was then and this is now. We can only move forward. And from where we stand - justice was NEVER served. When people do not even think that what they did was a crime, then its time to engage the criminal justice system into first gear. It turns out that these people are not even apologizing for what happened, and only pretended to be sorry in the past. If ANC cannot find another Mandela-esque miracle, like pronto, I see things going downhill very fast. Very fast.

@@michaelblack7043 as Mandela said "forget the past" only then will you be able to start moving forward. You sound like the EFF , wanting revenge for the past

@@craigbritz1684 The past can not be forgotten until Justice is served. Mandela should have known that.

you can only forget the past if you benefited

Chris hn talked about this D clk dat he was a pretender

Well said 💪🏾