It's amazing how ingrained the first name - last name - optional middle name pattern is into English speakers. Here's how it works for Spanish speakers, and why it's difficult for them to fit into our pattern.
I love that this video exists! I am South American and have had to constantly explain my hyphenated last name to people (and why I only use the first one of the two for most intents and purposes). On the flip side, I still get weirded out by married couples having the same last name, because in my culture sharing a last name means you are a blood relative, so you see how that can seem a little weird haha :)
Angyliv A is this why my mother's maiden name, Venegas, is before my father's, Ramirez? We first started looking into our family tree after we were told that our family is from Sephardic Jewish descent
David V The election of the order is really from few years ago. Traditionally it always was the father's surname the one that was first. If your mother's surname is first maybe you have brazilian or portuguese ancestors, but I don't think they are from Spain at all.
It's not confusing at all. All you do is add your mother's last name at the end of yours. I always thought it was ethnocentric to think Latin names are weird. It makes perfect sense if you take a minute to learn it.
Is SON, not on. SON and EZ means the same in different languages. EZ means "son of" in old castillian. In portugueses is ES, and means the same. Ramírez is "son of Ramiro". Gome, Lope Fernando abd Gonzalo are first names (Gome and Lope are not very common in modern times). Its the system that people used in the middle age all over Europe.
I come from a Spanish speaking country and when I moved to an English speaking country this has been a constant struggle to explain 😄. I only use my first last name (dad’s) at work and only HR has my full name on file for paystubs, tax forms, etc. This eliminates all sorts of confusion amongst colleagues looking me up on the company’s internet, mailing lists, Teams chats, etc. I also found a way explain the 2 last name convention to my anglophone colleagues 😄. I simply ask them for their middle name (99% of them don’t use it on a regularly basis). English middle names are mainly used for official documents; passports, drivers licenses, university diplomas, etc. Same principle applies to Spanish 2nd last names to make things easier. You can Google any current Spanish speaking country president and apart from the current Mexican president almost all others will only be named by the press/their own governments/citizens with their 1st (paternal) last name: Pedro Sánchez, Nicolás Maduro, Iván Duque, Gabriel Boric, etc.
Spanish/Hispanic system of surnames explained with superheroes: The Flash: Henry Allen + Nora Thompson = Barry Henry Allen Thompson Spiderman: Richard Parker + Mary Fitzpatrick = Peter Benjamin Parker Fitzpatrick
My Grandfather lost his paternal last name when he arrived in New York. I didn't even know we were Collazo until earlier this year. It just never came up in conversation and now my grandfather is gone. I discovered this through ancestry and immigration records.
In the Philippines, we have long adapted the American system with modifications based on our Spanish heritage. For us, it is mandatory that we make our mother's surname as our own middle name. Example: Jose Francisco Gomez Alonzo in the Spanish system becomes Jose Francisco Alonzo Gomez in the American system. If he were to marry Maria Santos Reyes (spanish system), his wife's new married name will now be Maria Santos Gomez (in the american system). While their children's name will be Santos Gomez.
To quote a passage from World Book's coverage of family names: "Those describing the bearer of the name as the _son of John_ include _Johnson_ and _Jackson_ in England; _Johns_ and _Jones_ in Wales; _Jensen_, _Jansen_ and _Hansen_ in Denmark; _Jonsson_ and _Johanson_ in Sweden; _Janowicz_ in Poland; _Ivanov_ in Russia and Bulgaria; _Janosfi_ in Hungary; and _MacEoin_ in Ireland." Also add ". . . and _Juanez_ in Spain."
I always have to tell people that no my name is not Marin and it's not Rodriguez. Its "Marin Rodriguez" yes the whole thing is my last name. Write it. Why does that little space confuse people so much???
Thanks. Nice to see I'm not crazy. My BF and I often have a weird discussion about this very topic. I'm American and he's Mexican. Never thought of it in terms other than First = First and Last = Last before. But your comment about that not being true for many countries got me to thinking I shouldn't try to equivocate them.
in the Hispanic and portugueses(first the women surname) culture we say that we have 8 surnames, because in the past nobody wanted to have Jewish or Arab ancestors so you had to know from your 8 grandparents that you had no foreign ancestors, in addition to the fact that our culture is bilateral we inherit from the father and the mother and that the woman has more freedom and status than in the gringo countries...
@@oliviaoblitas876 Every one in the Philippines has a middle name (which represents the mothers last name before marriage). there are 2 cases in where are person doesn't have a middle name. 1.) Divorce, while divorce is new to the Philippines that is not stopping people back then from ending their relationship. 2.) Single parent, there are times when children are born without a father and the mother has to make a choice, she either adopts the child's father as her last name last name or keep her maiden name. When the mother choose to keep her maiden name happens the child adopts the mother's last name leaving the child without a middle name. Because it was the standard for everyone to have a Middle name, it is very tough filling any legal documentation without one. One of my friend could not take the NAT exam because he did not have a father. NAT is the national aptitude test that every one takes in the Philippines.
I can't understand what is so difficult for english speakers to understand about our last names. We carry our parents' last names, period. Why do you only have yours father's last name? Didn't you have a mother? Doesn't she matter at all? THAT my friend is weird to understand. What has always seemed strange to me too is that custom of yours that when getting married the woman takes the last name of her husband. Did they get married or did he buy her and now she's his property? Why doesn't he take her last name?
In the Philippines it is exactly the same, when we moved to the US, we use our mothers maiden name as our middle names. We never had any problem at all other than having such long names it is sometimes cut off or incomplete by computer printouts.
About the 'mom and dad name doesn't match' part: neither does Chinese names match. In mainland China, Taiwan and Singapore (I think) it's still pretty common for women not to change surnames at all. And at least first generation immigrants tend to do that either. A married couple immigrating to a western country tend not to change (or hyphening, or any equivalent) of the wife's last name
Most American have a First name, middle name and one last name. The child usually always gets the fathers last name. But times are changing and more people now are giving their child two last names but it’s somewhat rare.
Your firstname fathers lastname your mothers fathers lastname or If you are the female spouse then Your firstname Your fathers lastname DE your husbands lastname. Some people just drop the 2nd last name altogether.
What i would like to know is why do they no longer use "de..." as a surname? I myself have a surname which begins with 'de' and no one in my family can explain it to me.
because its like evolution, we lost our tails.... and some family trees lost the "de" in surnames. like back in the old spanish days... I would be "de Perez" or "de Garcia" or... son /daughter of Perez son/daughter of Garcia now, I'm just Perez Garcia 😊
Lumpy Bosomhands When my father was registered way back 70 years ago, the Civil Register chopped off parte of his second last name. He would have been called "Del Razo", but for some reason they said that those kind of addendum wouldn't be written down anymore and therefore chopped down. Thankfully, it didn't last as they stopped doing it after a short time, but I guess this still messed up a lot of family names. tl;dr: Sometimes the Civilian Registers are huge jerks.
Lumpy Bosomhands It dates way back... like really back. When people did not have surnames and instead they were know for their profession or their place of origin. So If your name was Pablo, how would you be destinguish from other Pablos? Ooh well, You are Pablo from the City of Leon and the other guy is Pablo from the city of Castilla. So we have Pablo de Leon and Pablo de Castilla.
The Gamer Room And don, t forget the use of nicknames as family names . Actually in small villages it doesn,t matter thes surname but the unoficial family name. Some of my grand mother neighbours were " Os do Muiño " because of the job of a grand grand father but they had random surnames. Other were Os de Pataco because one grand father worked selling potatoes, but those weren,t they real surnames I think that this practice was the origin of the surnames in old ages
American here. My wife and I got married and she took my last name (her choice) but we know we are the the “_ _” family. As in my last name her last name. Just like web I was growing up although not on paper I knew my last name consisted of two large names but wrote only one officially which was my fathers last name. My Mom also dropped her last name and used my Dads. (Her choice also)
I know is the culture of your country, but i would like to ask you.. nobody in usa has talked about that system as old and machist? We are hearing about the powerment of women but nobody talks about the surname method? I would never change the surname of my parents for someones Who is not from my Blood. As woman i feel is a tradition very machist that treats the women as property of men, and i dont consider myself as feminist.
I don’t think middle names to exist to a extinct. I think it should just be first name and two last names (one name from mother and one name from father)
Thanks for explaining! Since I have two last names and realized Spanish-speaking people often have too I got curious... Still don't really know what to do if I get kids lol
Spanish surnames in Philippines was a result of colonial decree that was issued by the Spanish Governor General Narciso Claveria on Novermber 21, 1849 for the purpose of tax collection on each families. That's the only reason why many Filipinos have Spanish surnames.
I think "given name" and "family name" are better than "first" and "last" names. In English, the first name is also the given name. That is so in Spanish-speaking countries, but among Chinese speakers, that comes after the family name. In English, the last name is also the family name. That is not so in Spanish-speaking countries, where maternal and paternal surnames will be passed down in the immediate offspring; and in China, the family name comes first. So, the concept of "given name" and "family name" works better than "first name" and "last name" and "middle name".
That is because your sexist system consider that a woman has to lose her surname because of getting the husbands one. Will a man lose his surname to get his wifes one? Most no. Thats why is not a good system. Each person is individualist. The spanish system respect each person as equal. You can know all your ancestors knowing their surnames. American and chinese system goes losing part of their heritage surnames by the way. The spanish people Also have family name: the same that Will get the future babies ( family Gómez García for example as joining of two people). For you is more important the family name (even when is a given one -> fake, for us) and we consider more important the Blood of the family because your can change the order but they all are your true surnames and ancestors. I dont know why you are so concern about the losing of the surnames by the third generation when you are losing surnames each generation. The Main line of the first surname is maintained in all the systems ( english, chinese and spanish). The differences are that you only realise the loss of the secundary line in the spanish system. Thats why the spanish and portuguese system are more democratic.
If someone's mother's maiden name is the same as their father's surname, then what is the point of them going by the surname Rodriguez y Rodriguez? Their mother's maiden name gets lost in the mix.
Because it’s a cultural tradition, and that way the mother’s identity never gets lots. You will always know from where you came from. That’s why Hispanics don’t have as hard a time when researching their family trees. I’m many cases it’s very easy.
It has been developed over hundreds of years, obviously with nobiliary origins. The first step happened when only nobles used last names, with the paternal system, indicating the name of the father ej: Pérez (son of Pedro, Peter), López (son of Lope, the root means wolf), Jiménez (son of Jimeno), Iñiguez (song of Iñigo), Díaz/Díez (son of Diego), Rodríguez (son of Rodrigo), Álvarez (son of Álvaro), Fernandez/Hernandez (son of Fernando/ Hernando) and so on. Obviously this system soon evolved to a more complex one to differentiate further, therefore indicating procedence of place or maybe (albeit rarely) to the mother house of your own house, the place procedence got preferred therefore (example): Lope Díaz de Haro would be someone belonging to the house of Haro and his father was named Diego, then his son of the same name as his grandfather, Diego (Jr.) would become Diego López de Haro. Obviously the system eventually got to everybody in society and then came names related to physical traits, trades, and so on, around this time, which is in the latter part (centuries) of the middle ages, claims to the mother's line start to become important therefore people start using other surnames too, of course there were no rules so it's mainly up to what did they identify themselves with on legal documents and in public. Reasons to choose a surname above another would be liking the sound of it, showing and benefiting from a connection to a certain family in a given area, claims to the said family and therefore their inheritance, place in society, etc... obviouslt this gets very complex and that's where names abundant in hyphens, and the particles "de" "y" and the les common "del" "de la" start getting common: eg: Álvarez de Toledo y Pimentel, Porcallo de Figueroa y de La Cerda, de Zúñiga- Moreno y Guerra-Peláez and so on. More time passed and somewhere after the renaissance and definitely later in the colony, to simplify things, people started using composed surnames of the parents surnames, and then (specially in America after the secession from Spain, which included the abolition of the nobility to which these surnames were obviously an important reminder of their ancestry) many particles and composed surnames were dropped eg: López de Burgos as a whole surname may have become de Burgos and then only Burgos, maybe directly Burgos alone or López alone (not all families dropped composite surnames tho). So, see it more as a process that took a lot of time and that the thing similar to what we have today has been around more or less in the last 500 years, probably getting its final shape some 200-300 years ago or a little bit more of time.
@@juandavidrestrepoduran6007 What a great reply. Thanks for taking the time. I was curious to know if in the beginning of the culture they had anything similar to what Americans now have, beginning with the father's last name and the daughters taking their husbands' last name upon marriage. I was suspecting that it probably began in roughly the same state that we Americans are now in, a patriarchal convention, and evolved into what it now is. Curious to understand where/when our cultures deviated traditions, if ever they were the same.
@@Reelworthy I think they didn't take the husband's name, that's a french thing. At least in Brazil that was only adopted in the 19th century due to french influence.
@@juandavidrestrepoduran6007 Eso le pasó a mi familia después de la colonia, nos cambiaron los apellidos. Manuel de la O de los Reyes casado con Juana Gregoria de los Rios de la Vega y a su hija sólo le pusiero Domingo de los Rios. también el apellido de otros antepasados (de la O. Obando) fue borrado para siempre 😖😖
It depends, it can be part of the last name itself as in de León or in some cases it means a married woman who ads the de at the end to denote her husband’s last name as is Maria Blanca Ruiz Hernández de Monterrosa.. where the de Monterrosa indicates her husband. It’s a mouthful but that used to be the norm in Spain and Latin America but not sure nowadays
It depends. Sometimes it indicates that the woman decided to change her name to indicate the family of her husband. But its not really common. Sometimes the last name just needs "de" because thats how the last name was introduced.
It is common in Spain . en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Our_Lady_of_F%C3%A1tima The origins of its popularity is from a supposed manifestation of the Virgin Mary to three shepperd children in Portugal in the late forties . So in Spain and Portugal it is not weird at all , and it is considered a quite traditional and cristian name .
wow, so confusing in Spain. love the video. OK, not trying to think weird here. but, how the heck do you keep up with this crazy system? for sure you don't want to marry a close relative. I'm fine with having children and giving them my last name. glad you explained this confusing system. I did not know of it. glad I live in The U.S. just saying 😊. Did I mention great video?
Enagic ID# 1126378 not crazy at all, crazy is to ask a women to legally change the name she grew up with, the name her friends, family and relatives knew for her whole life the moment she marries, and also your system is so weird cuz it's much easier to repeat names in the US than in Latin countries how many John Smiths are in the US for example?, they might be a lot of Luis López in Mexico too but the second last name allows for differentiation Luis López Rodríguez, Luis López perez, Luis López anything
Enagic ID# 1126378 In Spain everybody use to have One single name and two surnames. When you have kids, you have to put your first surname and the first surname of the mother. In Spain you can choose which one is first. So, if you have a child named Ana, and you are Daniel Smith Dalton and the mother is Sara Jones Brown, Your child would be Ana Smith Jones OR Ana Jones Smith. Whatever you decide. But you have to note that you just can give her your FIRST last name. If you want to give her the second one you must change the order of your surnames before. What is weird for me is that women have to lose their surnames and adopt their husband's. Also the children (who are sons or daughters of both) just had their father's name. So fucking sexist.
In portugueses countires first the mother second the father because the Iberian people before the rome were matriarcal in spain the rome more influence and impose the father surname first second the mother
because most Anglo-Saxon (places settled by Anglicans and conquered by the Saxons, most European countries and the USA since the Dutch settlers founders came from England and Netherlands) countries use only one last name. This also ensures the fathers line continues on. Originally when surnames started being used it was to tell the difference between people with the same first name. John the butcher became John Butcher.. John the cooks son became John Cookson. Sam the smith became Sam Smith or Smythe, etc.. I myself am a traditionalist.. I would not marry a woman who wouldn't just take my last name, no hyphen or anything you take your husbands last name and the children get his last name .. no hyphen. What I am currently trying to figure out is why some people have a bunch of middle names. I've seen this in both Catholic and non Catholics.. I understand that catholics add names when they do the "sacraments" throughout their life, but that doesn't explain the multiple names from birth or the Protestant denominations having multiple names from birth. Since the passing of the patriot Act in the USA in 2001 you can only use the name that is on your birth certificate by FEDERAL LAW. So anyone like me who became a Sr. when they named their son after themselves cannot use the Sr. unless you go to probate court and change it. I know this because i actually had to do this because of the DMV, SS, and a few other agencies.
ryan abatemarco The name Fátima was possibly popularized in Spain by the Virgin of Fátima. There are many Spanish female names that refer to some Virgin: Fátima, Carmen, Pilar, Macarena, Almudena, Rocío...
A minute and a half in and I'm already feeling a migraine. Jesus Rodriguez Lopez Perez Aguilar Medrano Rincon Diaz Mendoza Zamora Reynosa Age Christ! Way too overdone complicated for no more reason than stubbornness I'm sure. And I'm from Hispanic origin, and still feel this is just too much pride in trying to cling to every corner of ancestry all at the expense of simple understanding.
Son solo 3 palabras, 4 como maximo tampoco es tan complicado. Nombre + 1 apellido del padre y el otro de la madre. No le veo lo complicado. Por no decir que a la hora de buscar tus ancestros es mucho más fácil ya que hay muchas personas con el mismo apellido pero no tantas con el mismo nombre y dos apellidos.
Just the firs surname of the father and the first surname of the mother. So: Jesús Rodríguez López. If you get married to someone name Pilar Aguilar Medrano, your child could be Pedro Rodríguez Aguilar (first of the father's surnames and first of the mother's surnames).
spanish surnames are so beautiful! swedish lastnames sounds so ugly haha. Nilsson, Johansson, Andersson, Svensson, Håkansson, Hansson, Rosengren, Davidsson, Wahlgren, Olsson, Jansson etc.
@@johnsarab4500 Yea, you are. But it is so strange for a non american woman to think in the problems you have because you get married and you have to change your passeport, your driver's licence, your bank account, and so on. And your new name is different from your name at birth and the name in your bachelor degree and so on. And, if you get married again, you have to do it all over again. If you are a man, you have the same surnames as your brothers and your father, but if you are a married woman, your father and your siblings have different names!! So weird!
