A friend of mine worked as a sound engineer at Abbey Road studios for over 20 years. He told me they use solid copper electric cable. He said all these high end speaker cables are a waste of money.
Back in the day when I was using a budget receiver I had always been aware of a hiss, it was only subtle but still very annoying! Well anyway after auditioning several AVRs it became apparent that the hiss was coming from my unshielded cables! Considering I was in a middle of an upgrade I thought I'll start with what was annoying me the most (the hiss coming from the unshielded cables) So I changed my 18- gauge cables for the 14-gauge amazonbasics and even though their was a slight improvement in sound quality the hiss still remained! It was only when I finally purchased shielded cables that the hiss had finally been eliminated! 🥳 Probably because of the aluminium shield protecting the cables from RF/EMI interference! My room is so much quieter now (floor noise) that I can actually start enjoying my movies at lesser volumes.
I think it’s important to know about the works published in the Journal of the Audio Engineering Society. In a nutshell, 12 AWG or 10 AWG copper cable from a quality manufacturer like Belden for a couple bucks per foot is imperceptible from the high dollar cables.
Bruce Morgen - I agree for the most part. I personally would shy away from 20 or 22 gauge especially with lower sensitivity full range speakers but that’s just me.
@@editorjuno lmao I agree cables don't make a damn bit of difference and I use Monoprice, but all I am cringing at is your resistance to spending $30 on 50' of wire and instead tearing apart vacuum cleaner lines. Like, dude.
@@transcribeded -- Cringe away, "dude." 😀 Two snips with a wire cutter isn't exactly "tearing apart" and I certainly didn't need 50', so IMO "waste not, want not" applied at at a time when I was not particularly prosperous. I'm doing better now and can usually find partial spools of brand new speaker wire for a dollar or two at a local thrift store -- the same place where I nabbed a pair of nice little vintage JBLs for $50! 😎
16 gauge is adequate for most stereo setups, and that's a very conservative estimate. In reality most people could probably get by with 18 gauge wire with no audible differences running 8 ohm speakers. Copper is getting expensive and there is really no sense in wasting money on thicker cables than what you need.
Speaker impedance and sensitivity play a large role in what to choose . An 84 dB speaker with 4 ohm impedance will require heavier gauge than an 8 ohm speaker with 94 dB sensitivity simply because the former draws much more current at the same volume . Cable company Analysis Plus makes cables in many price ranges and was my choice as a retail customer only .Excellent
Hi, In relation to the question whether it matters if the speaker enclosure wiring being a thinner gauge than the external cable: The answer is that cable properties like impedance are a function of both length and gauge. Therefore, the short run of thinner cable within the enclosure only has a tiny influence on the electrical properties within the total run length from amp to driver. Therefore, it is unlikely to make a noticeable difference as long as the cable is reasonable. I have been maintaining a church PA for about 30 years. While PA is not HiFi, I think it would be fair to say that in pro PA we at least pay attention to the 1st 1 or 2 most import factors that influence sound quality. There is a general principle of impedance matching in audio. That is, a source device and it's cabling must have a significantly lower impedance than the receiving device. If not, there will be a filtering effect and the sound will have poor bass, clarity and richness. This is not much of a problem for most signal level equipment (except pickups which are high impedance sources) since audio gear tends to be designed with this in mind. However speakers also do not fit this pattern as their dynamic drivers nominal impedance is generally only 4 - 8 ohms. For this reason, Amp output impedance has to be extremely low (hopefully much less than 1% of this) and the speaker cable impedance must also be extremely low as well. A lot of PA occurs in fairly noisy or acoustically poor environments, so as a general rule passive speaker cable will be chosen to be no more than 5% of the load impedance. However, a lot depends on the stability of the gear in question and I personally have set a cable limit of less than 2% of load for our church PA system. The impedance question seems to be a 1st order consideration for choosing twisted strand copper speaker cable. As pointed out in the video, there are other considerations and cable types beyond this, personal taste being one of them. This is probably a reasonable guide in that 2% of load impedance would be a satisfactory 1st base line for most audiophiles, but it is not the only consideration. There are Cable gauge/length impedance charts online but they are based on differing standards and many will lead to mediocre results. If it's important for the cable impedance to be extremely low (thousandths of an ohm), It is important for the connections to be maintained absolutely tight and corrosion free....(use a contact conditioner guys....sigh!) I had an interesting experience with 1 m cable runs into ProAcc EBTs recently. I just used some 18ga cable to make up 1m speaker cables which should have been gross overkill on the impedance issue, but the EBTs sounded harsh when turned up and left me feeling rather jangled after long listening sessions. As and experiment, I swapped in 1m of 14 ga speaker cable and found the sound smooth and relaxed even at high volume, no listening fatigue now. I have to say that from a listening perspective it is hard to say what changed, not harsh anymore certainly and certainly a much more pleasant and relaxing experience but in terms of frequency response, clarity, it's a mystery. Anyway, I like to be able to work from a known good standard such as the impedance charts, it's a good solid foundation and proved itself with the PA and other applications but I have to admit it failed this time. So I am willing to accept there is stuff we don't know and useful as it it, the commonly accepted simple audio engineering theory just doesn't explain everything in all cases. Sure you can set an initial baseline to try and that will possible be OKish but in the end, you just have to experiment and trust your own ears and that can get real expensive. There is a difference between being a technician and being an engineer. My father was chief electrical engineer at a world class electrolytic copper smelter. He said that engineering is the practical application of the scientific method. The modeling is just the tool to establish the initial plant design setup. After which, the process of applied science began, gathering and analyzing experimental data to optimise the performance efficiency of the plant. In other words, the theory does not define the end point, it just gets you the best starting point you can get in order to make a start on the real engineering. This is what many people just don't get.
I had some crappy 18 awg cheapo speaker wire on my hifi (it's all I could get at the time). Sounded okay too at the time. I then upgraded the wire to 12awg and used banana plugs at both ends and the sound did improve vastly it became richer. So gauge does matter to me lol.
Just go in-between... Here's a fun little fact from the guitar-world; Some guitarists use the old classic coiled cables, which are actually very thick, to round off the top-end. - I believe Brian May is a particular one who uses it as part of his sound. - So that's what thicker cables do. They might definitely carry more of the signal, but then capacitance will roll off the top-end.
I've never understood why high end consumer audio has not moved towards balanced interconnects. Consumers are duped into spending thousands on exotic cables that at best make no difference and at worst degrade the sound when this simple alternative is out there. There is a reason all pro level equipment uses balanced interconnects, there are measurable, objective advantages yet we persist with silly silver strand thousand dollar RCA interconnects.
What I'm getting as someone building a guitar speaker cabinet is it depends on what tonal characteristics you're looking for from that particular speaker. In my case I was looking to get a clean lowend for the bottom cabinet. The top cabinet is for higher tones. Together they blend nicely giveng me the sound I'm looking to achieve. Clean Bass you can feel and a clean high end that cuts through with scooped mids.
Wouldn't it depend on length and current draw? Tweeters dont draw as much as mid bass or subwoofers. So it would make sense to use a smaller size. Thats why bi amping your speakers is the best option if you can. You can use different gauge speaker cables. Smaller gauge for tweeters and larger gauge for mid bass and subwoofers.
that is just sooooo freakin' cool the High Frequency know to take the light gauge wires and conversely the bass frequencies instinctively take the route of the heavier wire who woulda thought ... ??? NOT ...
It would be interesting, revealing really, to hook a scope on each to see if any difference. But Paul won't do that. He already knows what the result would be.I dare somebody to scope measure a 15 ft run of 14 ga solid and 14 gauge stranded connected in parallel to amp and speaker. And show us the results. You'll need to measure mid cable span because being that they are in parallel the ends are connected together at the amp and speaker.
I can certainly see your point. I dont know if you are familiar with "The Groundhogs" if not they were a classic 1970s power trio. I dug one of their albums out today and I had not heard it for quite a while. Recorded in 1971, very loud and as clear as a bell. Perhaps they should get the old engineers out of retirement to show the current crop of "engineers" how to do it.
Speaker cable as thick as the national grid cables - cables used inside a loudspeaker = 1.5 mm off the real cheap shit. It's utter bullshit along with nearly every 'hi-fi' cable.
Paul that sounds like the solid vs stranded wire controversy I'm my thinking it's why bi-amping was once so popular My practical experience of problems with wiring and troubleshooting millions of feet in it in my lifetime definitely a preference toward stranded at higher frequency
Sorry Paul but this time you flew in circles. What about the length vs gauge correlation? What about insulation? Usually you come up with pretty good answers.
When building active speaker systems, I found that the heavier gauge wire worked better for bass but not so well for mids or highs. Conversely, the lighter gauge wire worked better for the high and midrange, but not so well for the bass. Since the active speaker system utilizes three stereo amps, one for each pair of drivers in my three way stereo system, I am able to select speaker wire based upon the need: heavier cable for the bass, lighter wire for the mids and highs.
I had to laugh given top-shelf system: preamp, CD transport,DAC, amp, interconnects, speaker cables etc. which are hooked up to speakers in the price range of say 5 to 8 grand and more. Those speaker's connector posts when opened up often reveal two very thin cheap looking wires going into the cross over. So what is the point in spending all those thousands when at the speaker the signal that so lovingly built form those expensive components goes into 5 and dime wire to power the drivers it makes no sense?
Some people re-wire their speakers with heavier wire, or even go as far as using silver plated wire. But it's pointless, as the bulk of the resistance in the system is in the driver voice coils, and no one can rewire those to get rid of it. (Although if a system omits passive crossovers and drivers connect directly to a dedicated amplifier, then the amplifier can be designed to compensate for the voice coil resistance.)
The wires are probably cheap but that short distance of smaller gauge wire should usually be able transfer enough power and keep resistance to a minimum
A late friend that used to sell and install audiophile systems tried to explain it to me several times. Good quality is important and Paul makes sense with using different gauges though I don’t know of any. Personally I like heavy gauge fine strand. But I am not an engineer nor claim to be one. In the presence of someone like Paul I would occasionally ask a question and try to absorb his wisdom. I just wish he could went a little further into this topic.
Rule of thumb in selecting speaker cable. 1. You will never get good sound with high quality cables and poor quality amplifier. ( i.e ) be more focused on your amplifier than you are of the speaker wires ) 2. For most decent systems , with the speakers no farther than 15 feet away from the amplifier a multi strand oxygen free cable / wire with a gauge of 14 is perfectly fine .if you have to make longer runs use 12 or 10 gauge wires of the same type described above. 3. Don't think too deeply on speaker wires, its not rocket science . Not because your amp is worth $5000 means you need to spend $500 on each speaker cable connected to the amp. If speaker wires was that critical as some people make them out to be the amplifier manufactures would be using them in the amp design . 4. Don't buy " Snake Oil " .
I have 12 awg cable left from a previous project, but have to make really short runs for my new speakers, like 3 - 4 feet per cable... do you think that might be too thick?
Engineers use heavier gauge wire just to handle the load. Longer distances require heavier gauges. So 12 awg might not be necessary for a 3-4 foot distance , for you application but it is fine. Its like using a 5 gallon bucket to carry 1 gallon of water.
For anyone who cares to quantify the differences, a simple copper wire resistance chart provides the actual differences. Most charts give resistance per 1000 feet so divide by 1000 for resistance per foot and multiply by the round trip length for the wire resistance. For example a 4 foot speaker cable is 8 feet of conductor. 12 AWG wire is 1.652 ohms per 1000 feet. Converting is 0.001652 ohms per foot or .01322 ohms. This does not sound like much, however this resistance needs to be calculated with the damping factor of the amplifier as the total resistance is the system damping factor. Damping factor is simply the inverse of the resistance of the amp output. For example an amp with a damping factor of 30 has a resistance of 0.033334. Adding the speaker wire resistance of 0.01322 ohms provides a resistance to speaker damping of 0.046553 ohms or a factor of 21.48 or a loss of almost 1/3 of the damping factor.
I just want to make a point about the "wine tasting talk" comment. The artist has the ability to use the worst and best stuff. If it works a rusty guitar, an old tape player, pennies on a drum, recording it in a bloody cave if they like. The point is, that mess, that so called imperfection is planned and wanted to capture a certain feel. Therefore, it takes the clear lense of a good system to capture that, a parallel would be a good camera filming a forest which is kinda a mess, but you need top quality to capture that complex character. In a way, you need real perfection to capture so called imperfection and how it was finally agreed by the artist and technicians as conveying the art.
Ok, Ok You had 10 gage Romex, and lack the top frequencies. The cable is transporting AC, the signal to the speaker. The conductors are close together and perhaps 10F long. This can create a capacitance which will attenuate the high frequencies. Try separating the conductors. But if you use your senses and not going the scientific way with test equipment is not a meaningful way to be an advisor to the unsuspected public
Thank You. Here is my confusion and it's not so much the cable as it is the ends. If you are going to have a solid (banana or spade) connector at the ends, why is it so important to have a cable that has fine wire that is just the right size? It seems you are adding resistance at both ends time (X) 2, the male and female. It seems as well that with a banana plug in hole in the threaded , you are relying on the point connection of the male and female and the threaded portion you are clamping with. With a spade it's the same. Point contact would seem to defeat the purpose of the fine wire heavy gauge high end cable. Shouldn't you at lease eliminate the connector at the cable end and gain as much potential contact as possible going straight to the device?
Please Paul, if there is one thing in audio you can be definite about it is a freaking speaker cable. it’s not hard to construct a good cable, secondly all aspects to a cable that matters can be measured and thus are objective.
I have always thought the whole cable debate was kind of crap myself and I just don't buy into it. I am very mechanical minded and I trust measurements, high tech equipment and math. I will give Paul credit though and not question his integrity. He never says its science or fact. He only says it is his opinion and this is how he feels about it after years of doing it. He likes what he likes, and he hears what he hears. I could argue until I am blue on why this might happen, and I have in the past. However in the end it doesn't change anything. I can't tell you what you like or that you didn't hear it. Everyone perceives sound differently. What I would suggest is experiment, try different sizes of wire or different types of cables. Find a company that will let you demo some, there are some that do this. You might have to put a deposit down, but you will get it back if you don't like them. If you like them great, if you don't return them. Me personally I have never been able to tell a difference. Just like I can't tell a big difference between 10,000 dollar speakers and 1000 dollar speakers. If you can, and you have the cash to spend buy them. I am not your wife I really don't care lol.
Paul Mohr I agree and would the following, when choosing a cable you need to first look for cables that are well made, using quality materials. Yes, in all likelihood they will cost more than those that are not manufactured to higher standards. Next, when listening and testing cables, do so blindly so that you focus on what you are hearing and not have the brand or the cost of cable influence your perception. Also, do not let the sales staff influence you, beyond providing you technical information, it does not matter what they think or hear, it is what you hear and think that matters. I understand that for some, this can be hard because it requires self confidence, but trust me it is a good way to avoid buyer’s remorse. Another way is, if you are not sure, do not buy. You should never have to convince yourself about your decision, any compromises should be based on what you prioritize and can live with. Also, accept that over time, your tastes and needs may change and that is not something that makes today’s decision wrong. You will address that at that time. If you can, go back over several days or weeks, for example three times and see your evaluations are consistent. If your top two, regardless of whether they are always in the same order, or, not, are the same, you can now make your final decision and let price and brand factor in. Some final points, particularly if you are about to spend a lot of money on a cable and your components are three years old or more, would you get more out of up grading one of the components in the chain for the costs of the cable(s)? Lastly, before spending money, ask yourself, “Have I done all the simple and inexpensive things first?” Such as speaker placement and room treatment. As someone who can appreciate good wines, I am also well aware that I am not gifted with a good nose or a fine sense of taste. As a result, I have long learnt that it makes no sense for to spend money on things that I will not notice, or, add to my enjoyment.
Not everyone have a pairs of good ears, if you can't tell the difference between 1000 dollars speakers and 10000 dollars then you are lucky at least you won't keep spending money buying speakers gears all the time
Simply put it's not ROCKET SCIENCE. The higher the gauge the crappier the sound and more expensive the cable. The lower the gauge the better the sound and less expensive the cable. Simply put. The higher is thinner and the lower is thicker. Less resistance and vice-versa.
"Made a heck of a difference" No it didn't. You need to apply proper scientific controls to your listening tests. You're definitely tricking yourself. This test has been done *many times* and no one can tell the difference apart from a minor and UNIFORM attenuation to the signal with smaller gauge cables. The quality is objectively unaffected. It isn't feasible you can hear these differences. Paul I love your enthusiasm, but your lack of scientific methodology is your downfall. This video is a disgrace and hurts the whole audiophile community.
This is all you need to know -- "OFC" is silly to specify, for low frequency electrical conductivity copper is copper -- what matters is the ratio of resistance of the cable (both conductors added together) to the nominal impedance of the speaker. Roger Russell's classic table works if you want to avoid the actual simple math involved. www.roger-russell.com/wire/wire.htm#wiretable
This know-nothing audiohead has made and used, 12 gauge pure stranded copper wire since the vinyl bug bit some 50 years ago...SFSG. I'm still using them, the only thing I've done is make them shorter and replace the connectors, twice. (Disclaimer''..I have tried several high-end 'audiofraud' cables and returned all of them) Remember the sound you hear is in your head and 'opinions' are only correct to those who have them.
With power, based on Watts and Length. Wire itself has resistance. I'm not an electrical engineer, I'm sure the resistance changes with the temperature. And the frequency being played through it
Paul, going by your logic regarding 'wire guage' vs. 'speaker/driver frequency response', would then a 'pseudo-bi-wired' pair of coaxial cables serve the purpose better, with the thicker inner core wire(s) connected to the mid-bass terminal and the outer thinner wire (mesh) twisted together at the end and connected to the tweeter terminals (assuming the speakers have two pairs of terminals....?
What's WIMPEY?! :-) please can somebody helps there, it's kind of the essence of his answer. Shame on you Paul using your language like that to non natives too.
i bought 16 awg speaker cable for my 1000 watt amp and dual subs for my vehicle.... im redoing it with 12 because it doesnt sound quite right. probably a million reasons why but figured id try the 12 gauge anyway to help me sleep at night
So based on what you said here. If you were to bi-wire a speaker. Would you use a smaller guage cable for the tweeter section? And if so, how much smaller in general?
I have to run my speaker wires inside the walls of my home theater, the contractor used the industry standard for in-wall application. It's shielded and is not thick like my Monster Cable speaker wires. I couldn't tell any difference between the thick speaker wires and the in-wall thinner wires. Obviously, I could ask them to run my Monster Cable wires in the wall, but I want to stick with the industry standard for in-wall applications.
Pass a blind fold test and get back to me. I get it you don't want to alienate the big spenders. The connections are what make the difference next is cable length say over 30 feet in the case gauge does matter id you have the equipment and ears to hear it..
So maybe I messed up. I thought all that was important was the gauge so I went to Home Depot to buy 12 gauge wire because it was cheaper than getting wire at a stereo shop and I thought I was smart. But now you are staying the material matters also so I guess I was not so smart as I thought.
I saw a big difference from going straight bare wire 18g to sure grip banana plugs and 16g and now my Infiniti sm-152 rock better than ever ! Paul what you think of the sm-152s?
Tee-Jay The Stereo-Bargain-File Try 14 or 12 gauge speaker wire. You generally have to go up or down 2 sizes (18 to 14, 16 to 12, etc.) to hear an obvious difference in the sound, particularly on short but loud transient sounds, like drumbeats or handclaps. All the speaker wire in my place is minimum 12 gauge, and some are thicker. Sounds great!
@@ArthaxtaDaVince777 The lower the speakers' sensitivity, the more the size of speaker wire matters. If your speakers are power hungry, going up a couple of sizes like you did is like getting a more powerful amplifier. Have you considered 8 gauge? The only issue is that it won't fit into all brands of connectors. With very sensitive speakers, like Klipsch La Scalas (105 dB/W/m), the difference is less obvious, because less current is flowing, but with any speakers, 14 gauge is a bare minimum, and 12 gauge is even better.
@@nomorokay Yeah and it's not just sensitivity, because a very sensitive speaker like mines (92 db at 8 ohm) can have a very low nominal impedance. My 948s would demand as low as 2.5 ohms at lower frequency, so a thicker cable was a must. I haven't considered 8 gauge but only because I didn't find anything online.
@@ArthaxtaDaVince777 An inexpensive brand of good speaker cable in all sizes is KnuKonceptz. They have several models, but I use Karma Kable SS. The SS stands for Smoke and Silver, because those are its colours. One conductor is covered in grey dielectric and the other one is covered in silver. They’re in twisted pair configuration, which rejects interference, and are covered in a thick clear sheath, which provides both protection and maybe a little more spacing from any wires they’re in contact with. They’re made of oxygen free tinned copper. The tin coating makes them suitable for marine applications, so corrosion will never be an issue. They’re made of hundreds of very fine strands of wire, which makes them very flexible and easy to cut to length with a sharp knife or box cutter. The bigger sizes can be heavy, as you know, so in some applications you might want to support or secure them to avoid tugging on your connectors. My JubScala IIs (Klipsch La Scala IIs with K402 Jubilee tweeters) are bi-amped, so I use 8 gauge for the woofers and 10 gauge for the tweeters. It may be overdoing it with those speakers, but when I’m siting on my sofa enjoying music, I’d rather feel that I overdid it with the speaker wire than underdid it.
From an engineering standpoint, there are 4 important factors in cable material. 1 Resistance. High resistance reduces damping of the speaker. So Larger and Shorter are better. 2 Capacitance. Large diameter conductors have more capacitance. So smaller and shorter are better. 3 Inductance. Diameter has no impact. Woven multi-pair has less inductance. Multi pair and shorter is better. 4 Dielectric Material. This affects both capacitance and absorption. Materials with low absorption and lower dielectric constant is better. So is shorter. The one important factor is length. Size is a balance in engineering. Material of the insulation is important. House wire is not designed to carry high frequencies without loss. Amps located at the speakers or powered speakers is generally best. Speaker wire less than 10 feet is best. Material is only the next important factor to length.
I would have imagined the capacitance to be in the order of nanofarads and given the tolerance on capacitors, negligible in the frequency range of interest (
Jonathan Strum, You are correct the effect is negligible, so is the difference in speaker cables of the same resistance. However this approaches the realm of the differences audiophiles claim to hear between cables. Me personally I use short speaker cables which is nothing special. For commercial applications powered speakers are preferred over traditional amp racks and bi-amp speakers. Well constructed Hozan speaker cables are fine. Amp racks are located near the speakers.
isettech, I was surprised at the difference heavy duty speaker cable made compared to the lightweight stuff we used back in the 1970s. The improvements were in the bass/upper bass region. Changes in the higher frequencies the golden-ears told me would be apparent were inaudible to me. It's entirely possible the cable I purchased was different to what they were using however. I went to a cable supplier and spent ~1% of my total hardware budget on them. Cable length in my case is 3 metres (0.03 ohms and 2.3 µH; capacitance not stated).
Johathan, The 18 AWG clear vinyl stuff was crap that was so popular back then as it showed off the pretty copper inside. The stuff turned the copper green where there was high humidity. Even back then I replaced that with industrial grey wire designed for audio from Belden. A couple lengths of 14AWG made the big difference on a modest 250 Watt system. Even today I have never spent the big bucks on "Audiophile" wire. Shopped by specifications of wire size, capacitance per foot, dielectric material, and sometimes 4 core. We must be about the same age. I graduated HS is 1975 and bought my first good system in Japan while in the Navy. In that time, that was the best. Still enjoying my Yamaha NS1000 speakers. Sold my AR3a's a few years ago. Time didn't treat them well.
I'm a bit older than you; I graduated from secondary school in 1968. I started my hi-fi journey around 1970 building my own speakers using Richard Allan 8 inch full-range drivers fed by an old valve amp (separate pre and power amps). Then I graduated to a decent Kenwood SS amp and AR7 bookshelf speakers. Pursued more bass and SPL with home-built speakers again (SEAS drivers) and a heavily modified 50W/channel kit amplifier. My younger son's best friend now has the speakers and I didn't feel up to renovating the amp a second time when one channel died. Purchased a Rotel integrated amp, nominally 100W/channel, but measured by a friend at better than 150W. They drive a "kit" transmission line system with two 10 inch woofers and a dome tweeter. One of the best speaker systems I've heard and several golden-eared friends have purchased the same or later versions of the same speakers. I put kit in inverted commas. It was a trivial assembly job (3 hours working slow), but saved $AU300 in sales tax because it was a kit. Unless the amp or speakers die, I expect they will last me out. The US navy frequently visits Hobart and until a few years ago, we used to offer R & R to an American sailor. Mostly they were from the mid-west - farm boys - and they really appreciated being on the farm eating decent food for a few days. Good times :-)
I hear a bunch of comments about how bi-wiring is just a waste of time and bragging points only. If you are saying that thick cables accentuate the low end while thinner ones to the same for the upper register, is there a point to be made that maybe you should bi-wire using two different gauge wires?
Hi Paul, Thank you for this video! I’m looking to connect my Yamaha NS-10Ms to a Yamaha P2200 amp. When I heard you say the bigger the gauge the lower the top end I smiled. The original style of NS-10s are known for having an issue with the top end being almost unbearable at times. If you were using this combination, what gauge would you use for the connection?
Hey Paul. If there is enough difference in speaker cables to be heard by the human ear then there is certainly enough difference to measure with test equipment (scopes). Show us. Yes there is some difference in different construction and composition. But you completely omit very important characteristics.The things you omit in these videos are so obvious to electronics engineers. It is so exposing of you.
No of course they don't because it's nonsense. The equipment these people play their music on was developed using measuring equipment they say cannot measure the differences in cables they say their ears can detect. Even laymen without any qualifications of any kind in electronic engineering can probably see the obvious difficulty this raises with the whole "it cannot be measured" nonsense.
Why does everyone in these threads expect a 3hr Symposium for each basic question? And I agree with Paul. Bigger Is Better. Especially with lower powered equipment.
it's called resistance....the higher the resistance of a conductor, the more it will suck, the lower the resistance, the better it will perform, simple...as the wires get longer, the resistance gets bigger, so you need a thicker cable for a longer route, there are some capacitance issues but from my testing, only with expensive audiophile cables, that are made with magic, and therefor they don't care about resistance and capacitance!
If you open an amplifier or cabinet speakers you will find they used very light gauge output wires. 16 to 18 gauge at best. So why are we buying 10 to 12 gauge high dollar speaker wire?
Thank you Paul! I'll try to be brief, but, you know me! I've studied Electronics several times, for years, as it interests me, and I can often relate this knowledge to music (reproduction). I'm sure that Paul & his engineers are aware of the following; I am trying to explain this for those not as versed in Electronic Theory. Inductance and capacitance are two of the basic elements in electronics. You, Paul, discuss Capacitors and Capacitance in some of your presentations. Perhaps you have heard the term 'ELI the ICE Man.' (This is long before "Ice, Ice Baby" by Vanilla Ice, or the Rap Music artist, Ice Cube, and the movie "Book of Eli" with Denzel Washington!). The 'L' in ELI refers to an Inductor and Inductance. The 'C' in ICE pertains to a Capacitor and Capacitance. The sequence of these letters is important because ELI means that Voltage leads current in a circuit with Inductance, and ICE indicates that Current leads voltage on a capacitive circuit. One day I was told that even a straight wire has - some - Inductance, and Capacitance (as well as resistance). Therefore, the voltage is being shifted ninety degrees ahead of the current in an Inductive circuit (or, conversely, current lags the voltage), and in a predominately Capacitive circuit, current leads the voltage. Is it possible that these 'shifts' may affect the integrity of both the audio AND digital signals? Please don't say, maybe, just a little. Some of us go, to a lot of effort as best we can to achieve as accurate as possible sound reproduction. In a circuit with 'equal' amounts of Inductance and Capacitance, these opposite lead and lag factors cancel out, and you're back in phase, again. A long speaker wire, with each strand encased in some sort of non-conductor, and then the two wires placed next to each other, seems to me to have the potential to have at least a bit of a capacitive effect, and this can lessen or attenuate some of the high frequencies. Could this be at least part of the reason for the perceived roll off in the speaker high frequencies? There are measuring devices for Inductance and Capacitance, as well mas Resistance, of course. Should you seperate each strand of speaker wire (or ribbon) from each other, but keep them at equal length? (Conversely, Inductors tend to oppose, attenuate lower frequencies). Speakers can have a 'Crossover' inside the speaker, to direct the frequencies to the appropriate speaker. If the crossover uses Inductors, Capacitors (and resistors) to achieve this, can this cause some kind of change in phase / phasing, & thereby affect the sound? (This last should be a question to Paul!) I have considered 3 separate amplifiers, designed specifically for each woofer, mid range & tweeter. (There is also an excellent 4 way speaker). Some of my speakers have small indentations in the back of them, with little pins or knobs, to adjust the frequency response.
@@kalijasin You realise that FLUKE is talking about "both stranded and solid cables within the same category (i.e., category 5e, category 6 or category 6A)" .. yeah, that's CAT5e/CAT6/CAT6a ethernet cable. Those things are subjected to signal frequencies up to 417MHz - that's solidly radio wave territory. 98% of effects that appear at those frequencies have no influence whatsoever at 20-20.000Hz which is the audio spectrum.
@Oystein Soreide : With that flimsy cable, you lose something, unless your cables are just 3 feet long. What you lose depends on the construction of your amp and speakers. Most likely, as you don't lose bass level, you lose bass precision (and may even get "more" bass?!) because the speaker feedback dampening by the amp is reduced (feeding impedance high!), so the bass speaker overswings.
I'm using simple, high-quality, finely stranded 12ga copper wire I got from Monoprice and banana terminals from Crutchfield. Works fine for me. Don't need nothing fancy.
For my 3 watt amp, I use a bare 16 gauge soft silver core cable wrapped in an 8 gauge teflon jacket. The cable offers the lovely transmission, fullness, no glaring sibilance, and smoothness only pure silver offers. However, with an oversized jacket, I get a more open sound with added RF protection. Tempo Electric Cables suggests using bare wire to attach to the speaker posts. I’m sure, it’s to reduce metal mixing and offer maximum signal transmission. I feel, I hear the potential of these cables over my Nordost knockoffs I had attached to my system.
Yep.......According To My Listening Experiences I Can Say Without Any Exaggeration Russian Made " Tchernov Special SC Speaker Cables " Is The Excellent Audio Performance Cables Among The European, North American & Asian Made High - End Speakers Cables Branded. Tchernov's Audio Signal Frequencies Flows Are Vocals 99.98 % Natural , Extremely Details, Fully Transparent & Unmatched With Any Other Speaker Cables On The Planet Earth. I Do Believe That The Tchernov Speaker Cables Done Fantastic & Innovative Jobs For The Audio Industries In The World. It's Not Surprised That The Dutch ( Holland ) Grand High-End Super Brand " Kharma Audio's Recommendations Of The " Made In Russia " Tchernov Cables.
Isn't this simply only down to the electrical resistance? As long as the cable doesn't have too much of a capacitive effect, the only difference should be the absolute impedance your receiver sees. I can't imagine that the crystalline structure of the copper has any impact at all, or even using pure silver.
Just a reasonable gauge of cables is all you need. Say 10-12 gauge stranded wire is gonna give you 100 percent unless youre thr Grateful Dead running their Wall of Sound. If you need confirmation, you _know_ this guys is full of bs when he starts mentioning power cables.
Hi there Paul. Happy New Year 2023. Let's hope this new year is much better than 2022 was, right? Paul, thank you so much for your Channel. I learn something new every time that I visit. I genuinely appreciate all that you do, for so many. I need your help in answering a pressing question that I would like to pose to you. The following is that Question: I have 2 Pair of Speakers, so a total of 4 in all. Each of these speakers are rated as having 4 ohm impedance, yet the Receiver/Amplifier that I own is, of course, rated for 8 ohms. My Speakers are, all 4, Polk Audio. I recently killed a Denon Receiver/Amplifier while using on ly 1 Pair of 4 ohm Speakers. I am retired and my income is quite low, so I can't just run out & buy a new receiver/Amplifier. However since the death of my Denon, my only replacement is a Kenwood. Not great but it is all Digital 7.1 Surround Home Theater system w 1875 watts Total Output. I don't want to kill this Kenwood, as I did with my Denon so my question is this: Since each Speaker is rated as 4 ohms, if I were to wire 2 Speakers together, would the receiver/Amplifier see this as one Speaker with an 8 ohm impedance? I know this sounds weak, but monetarily I have little choice right now and as i said I don't want to kill this receiver/amplifier and I'm certain this is what killed my Denon, even though I'd been using the Denon 8 ohm impedance Amplifier with 4 ohm speakers for almost 8 years?! Anyway Paul, I hope that made some sense to you and I can't wait to hear if thi9s would be a safer way to drive these speakers? Thank You for your time and consideration. Keep Smiling... Cheers...
First, its not about gauge its more about materials and design. The listener wrote in, like many other get caught up in gauge and size when it should be about sound quality. You cant buy good quality cables at a department store, you must go to a high end audio store to find the better brands and better made cables. Most high end stores will allow you to take home different cables to fine the ones that complement the sound of the rest of the system. That goes for interconnects, digital cables, and power cables. Simply put them in your system and listen. Also don’t ket price be the determining factor. There are some excellent sounding budget cables “iF” you take the time to try them.
Should speaker wire always be twisted? Can 12 gauge copper stranded, 12 romex, taken apart and omitting the ground wire, be twisted and a pre twisted pair of solid wire from a cat 5 assembly be all twisted together to have your cake and eat it to..with whipped cream?
I've found that for an economical 2 conductor 12 or 14 gauge stranded copper cable AKA lamp cord works very well as speaker cable compared to more expensive "pro' speaker wire at the higher price for the same size and specs. in addition to that I've found from years of patching together different combinations of components since ii was a kid that even though they may cost more, some of the so called 'pro speaker cables' have one copper stranded conductor and one aluminum stranded conductor, but to me do not really sound as good and the regular lamp cord from your local home improvement store at about half the price. you can get that any color you want to match your decor or blend i enough to not be noticed easily. I'm into inexpensive but decent quality and hate to pay more that it's worth to me personally. I don't think of y self as and "audiophile as such. so if i have to ask how much it (high end audio equipment) costs I won't bother with it. I don't need it if it cost more than my car.
I agree the quality of the speaker cable is more important than the thickness. However if you purchase lets say Kimber Kable Ascent 4TC cable and compare it to the thicker 8TC cable, one would think with the cable being of the same quality, that the thicker cable would provide a fuller sound. Sort of like a water hose where one hose is better than another.
It's all about how much power you are trying to drive... a typical home theater system is fine with 16 or 14 gauge ...When I worked in the pro audio/touring world where we were putting 1500 watts to double 18" cabinets we'd be down to 10 gauge...
you need bigger cables only if the internal resistance of your power amp is very very low like 0.05 ohm . but if your amp has a 0.5 ohm resistance the width of the cable allmost wont make a difference
I find it interesting that the people who recorded the music we all listen to don't seem to spend anywhere near as much time agonizing over cables : they need long runs and they need reliability. www.mogamicable.com/ I'm sure they sell heavy gauge cables, and dealers will almost certainly cut your cables to specification. Those wanting 10K USD per foot cables probably need to look elsewhere,
so a thicker wire gets you better bass ? does that mean it's not that important for satellite speakers ? i need to run like 20 feet (7 meters) and apparently i need some pretty thick and expensive stuff for that (relatively)
Someone correct me if they think I am wrong. I here people always talk about " This is snake oil or that is snake oil" Now don't get me wrong, I am sure there is snake oil out there, However is it not true that if you take two systems and the one has better empirical measurements than the other that people may prefer the sound of the system with lesser specs? When wires gauges or insulation(Dialectic) does this not change some characteristic of the signal? or are you saying that if it's not a component preamp, Amp etc it's all the same? I had a old Accurs CD player which on paper should have been awesome. I used it for a transport. The Perceived pacing was off. Should have been a laser reading bits and sending it to my DAC for conversion, so why should the pacing being off? Where would that measurement be found in the empirical world? .
If you have your speakers less than 10ft from your amp, 12 gauge is fine. If its greater than 10ft, lets say 40ft from your amp. I would use a 10 gauge.
I just bought 100 feet of 14 gauge oxgen free copper wire for my speakers and I will be running it 25 feet to my surround speakers from my Yamaha HTR-5935 receiver. Did I get the right wire for this? If not I only have today left to return it.
@@Paulmcgowanpsaudio I HAVE SOMETHING SIMILAR TO THIS. IN A SONY STR DN1060 7.2. AND I BOUGTH MONOPRICE 12 AWG OXIGEN FREE COPPER. BECAUSE THE AMP. TURN HOT BECAUSE I HAD NORMAL AND OLD CABLES FROM THE ANOTHER AMP. IS OK???
@@nightstringers that's what it is. Every gun (civilian) is considered a long gun except pistols. A rifle fires a bullet and is capable of very long range accurately. A shotgun fires a shell and is for short range. You can add a rifled barrel to a shotgun and use slugs to gain considerable distance and accuracy, but nowhere near a rifle. I was a Marine and we were always pretty specific on what a weapons classification was.
Not a helpful video: no clear suggestion for gauge (especially with respect to distance), plus contradicting info on benefit of thickness. I'm sure Paul can do much better. Besides this is not a 4 minute issue.
Also I'm sorry, but the 'well you know the bass was clear but the highs were diluted by our 10 awg wire, so we added some higher gauge ones' is false. What's sad is Paul should know better. He does know better, but he's letting his brain fool him. Conductive, low capacitance cables are all you need. They don't need to be expensive. They don't need to be silver. They don't need to be prayed to.
hey bro i use neotech nevd 2001 digital cable between my cd and my dac .its amazing...also use two pairs of the same cable as interconnectors.also amazing ....because its triaxial cable with pure mono silver in the middle it gives you a "buble"of sound with no stress very musical and very smooth ....enjoy if you can...
@@m.morininvestor9920 what a nonsense! for digital transmission itself there can be no difference at all but optical connections prevent any grounding issues on a physical layer
Considering how thin the wires are in speaker enclosures, you really shouldn't need anything thicker than 14 or 16 gauge for runs up to 25 feet. I agree with Paul that speakers with thicker wire sound fuller than thin ones based on personal experience.
@@rockman22 Its extremely impractical as its very hard to bend and I only use it for my front speakers since they are the shortest runs but require the most powerful speakers. I like it, but honestly can't tell the difference when I was using 10 gauge, which is already very thick for speaker wire. Expensive too.
I guess it depends on the voltage. In the UK we have 240v so at say 100w you're looking at only 0.42A which is nothing! 10AWG cable can handle 20A+ continuous which is like 5000w!
Question: Is it better to coil excess speaker cabling or leave it a random mess (rat's nest)? Similarly, is a (power) extension cord at 60 Hz (lower frequency than that of typical audio signal) better uncoiled than coiled, say excess extension cable for yard work? It is understood that unrolled, cut-to-length, separated runs are ideal, but while this scenario is not be deployed.
No need for a rat's nest whatsoever, it's a myth that speaker wire has to be the same length all the way through. That only applies if there is a huge diff in lengths.
I’m glad Paul mentioned losing the top end when using a heavier gauge wire, as I would have likely gravitated to a heavier than average cable. 14 may indeed be the sweet spot.
Paul speaks truth here and agree 14 gauge wire is likely the sweet spot, but to a point. I gravitate to bass and the one trick I learned is to use 14 gauge wire, but to have 4 of those wires going to each terminal. The bass response is unbelievable compared to one 14 gauge wire - but, the top end is dampened. Fortunately, the amount of increased bass you get is much greater than the damping at the top. As a result, I was able to tolerate it. With that said, I learned the virtue of bi-wiring (if your speakers permit it) - thin wire for the top end, and 4x14 gauge wire for the bottom. Now, I can have my cake and eat it too :-)
@@Artemis_Prix I guess you believe in the tooth fairy too..... Keep believing in the lie that cables or the other lie, bi-wiring make a difference, they do not!!
@@Deke1 🤣👌I see why you came in here with your great assessment.People’s preferences in certain things have absolutely nothing to do with your miserable life,therefore your negative vibes aren’t warranted in this video.🤷🏻♂️Enjoy life.
