There is a way that the last spin u showed could work. The one way it could work is if u slide over while spinning then u have the opportunity to to slice ur opponent
The only timeline where a spin won’t be punished up close is if they’re off balance and their blade has been batted away, and even then, you could just flick the wrist to cut them rather than an extravagant spin.
Obi one's and anakin's battle on mustafar has a lot of spins and most of them work well. Either blocking while showing your back or bringing your sword back after it got knocked away. Great fight genious coreographer
Before anyone argues this... If the character is a superhuman and is so fast that such a spin wouldn't put them in danger, then they wouldn't be spending so much time trying to take down this one guy
Oh, absolutely it's unrealistic. But people are going to want to do stuff like this in choreography no matter what. So at least make it semi-believable
And then you have Geralt, who is superhuman in the books, but in the games his twirls are infuriatingly slow and get you cut. Even worse, in TW3 Geralt has multiple different animations for the same attack, and they all have different frame data, so you can't even be sure if you can whiff punish with a quick cut or whether Geralt will start spinning until next Tuesday and get interrupted along the way 🤬 They could have done _so_ much with Witchers to make their movement feel superhuman. Instead, they made them look like clowns. Slow clowns, who get cut by random humans for twirling too much, too close to an opponent 🤦🏻♂️
@@AlkisGD Sorry but that sounds more like someone who was really bad at combat in W3 would say. This game has really wide sidestep an parring timing, if you are regularly hit by simple humans, then the problem is with you not understanding the flow of the fight. Yeah they use a lot of spins, but those spins allow Geralt to engage everything in a radius no mater of his movement. It's really effective when you fight a hundred bandits in B&W, and it feels fun to evade attacks from giant monsters in the same motion as you strike them back.
That's the issue with a ton of fictional fighting techniques. If you need powers for it to use it, isn't there a much better way to use those powers instead?
@@reio4641 I see it all the time when Star Wars fans talk about reverse grip. And sure, super fast and strong force users could probably get away with it against average Joe’s (less efficient but doable). But as soon as they go up against other force users, they are suddenly back on an equal playing field so it would go back to being a massive disadvantage
Funnily enough, one of Anakin's favorite go to moves is that flourishing spin you did where he brings his saber behind him and back in front to perform a strike. Shadiveristy did a breakdown of the fight and talked about how that spin wasn't bad because it protected his back and led into a strike. Glad to see someone else perform it. It looks awesome, and semi realistic.
Well, lightsaber combact is a whole different beast than classic melee. There is no edge allignment, blades often lock up as the they attract each other like magnets, wich means that you really need to put more strenght into swinging that thing around to prevent it, wich explains the wide strikes, the weight of the blade shifts during combact and a bunch of other shit wich "explains" the flamboyancy of the movies. Still, there is no need to spin, despite having the possibility to, but we all know how much Anakin likes to dramatically show off.
@@gidelstarwind realistic sword dules whouldent ruin fantasy movies, it whould only ruin it if you go for realism during battle scenes but not an at least pretty even duel
@@vinne6837 I imagine "realistic" duels would have a lot more thrusting; why wouldn't you just stab someone going for those big Hollywood slashes? But thrusting with swords stiff and heavy enough to make "swordfighting noises" when clacked together are also probably unsafe to use for choreographing a lot of stabby-stabby.
@@gidelstarwindthat's hogwash, what's strict realism? I agree there should be an enhanced/augmented realism, realism "on steroids" due to a fantasy setting but without being stupid about it. Take a look at Adorea Olomouc fight choreographies. They fit everywhere. Also the Witcher games series (game) motion cap/choreography. Those were great, treating swordplay with respect but taking it to the next level, I even bought the spins and twirls with no problem.
@JohnHellscream are u fr rn? the witcher games, especially the 3rd, have SOOO much unnecessary close range spinning and twirling. looks cool, but let's be real it's incredibly exaggerated lol
Basically that one Witcher 3 combat mod that only made Geralt use spinning attacks when attacking from a distance, increased immersion by a million and still got to see all the awesome animations.
But at least geralt has the excuse of having superhuman speed, strenght, reflexes, reaction time etc. He can pull off spins without endangering himself
@@zachrabaznaz7687 in the books, the spins allows geralt to dodge and attack at the same time. He dodges by spinning and doing pirouettes and quickly attacks at the end of the spin. Also, the spin gives him more momentum to attack and allows him to put more weight on the blows, which is useful against monsters and their heavy carapace/skin. At least that is the books explanation for the witcher signature fighting style. I'm not a real swordsman so i wouldn't know if there's real logic behind it
@@LuisEduardo-xm3tc It makes zero sense to even use swords against armored opponents either way, but spinning to build up momentum is inferior to just having proper form.
@@zachrabaznaz7687 here comes another book explanation kkkkkk. The witcher swords to kill monsters are made of silver, coated with a layer of meteorite steel, which is steel from falling stars that have magical properties and make them deadlier, stronger and much more resistant and unlikely to break against hitting someone or something. Combining that with the witchers super-human strenght and it makes the swords hit really hard and cut smoothly against the monsters. Ordinary weapons made from common steel doesn't have these properties and the only common sword that is usually effective against monsters in witcher universe are greatswords, like one a crinfrid reaver uses against a dragon in the second book (still got stomped). That's the book explanation for witchers using swords when they probably should use weapons better suited for hard skinned and heavily armored opponents. Sapkowski made sure to be well prepared with convenient excuses when someone called out the bullshit in the witcher fighting style he crrated
This is a pretty interesting take, as the only difference from what's usually done in shows and films is a matter of distance. Making it part of the approach makes it almost a taunt to intimidate an enemy. Even though they're not in danger, it just says "I can turn my back on you and do this cool spin in front of you and you can't do a thing, now fight me!"
@@thisdude9363 Yeah, that too. Sort of a deceptive measure, taking advantage of a brief moment of their opponent underestimating them with little sacrificed if they don't take the bait. Could be interesting, having a fighting manual in some fantasy story talk about this as a viable tactic.
True, but that's achieved though massive range. And you wouldn't use it if the opponent had a weapon with reach like a spear (you'd more likely opt for twirling the blade in front of you batting polearm style weapons away). If they have shorter weapons they have to move into the area of a fast swinging blade to even get in range so effectively you're spinning out of their reach, and spinning keeps you out of their reach.
I remember writing a training sequence for one of my characters once. They did a spin and their mentor figure CRACKED THEM ON THE BACK WITH THE TRAINING SWORD and asked why they were spinning like an idiot. So whenever there is an episode that addresses spinning it resonates with me
I would actually love to see a movie where they lampshade bad choreography like this. Like, where a character does a spin or flourish in the middle of combat like you see in some movies, but just gets cut down immediately rather than their opponent just passively letting them do it.
Bro movies and books do that all the time and it's infuriating because even though they point out the flaws in those choreography, none of them actually take effort to make a cool but believable fight where both parties are fighting realistically. I hate stories whose only identity is making fun of the genre without actually doing anything better, basically like Velma.
I kinda thought that Geralt's spin in the Blavakin fight worked. He was in close & his momentum was already carrying him that way. It ended up, at least seemingly, enhancing his dodge. Granted, he's a witcher with supernatural natural senses & reflexes.
The "spin attacks" that Geralt and other witchers use are based off of the pirouette, a pseudo spin attack used with two handed weapons when fending off multiple attackers; best way I could explain it is you swing in front of you, do a half turn, swing above your head and behind you, half turn, and swing in front of you again. Rinse and repeat until your footwork has made distance between you and your opponents. One spin of the body has you swing the big sword in 2 to 3 circles if it's done right. that said, a pirouette doesn't necessarily add more force to a blow or parry like the witchers do; its to get your opponents to back off so you can reassess the combat situation. But they're also fighting angry mobs, monsters three times their size and literal ghosts while being automatically in peak physical form, so...😅
@@thisdude9363 the entire "blade ballet" was most certainly used in old europe, just not this variation in specific It would be more of an arms out push that both sends you back and your opponent forward, creating some space between you, and would consist of less body movement and more blade swing. The witcher takes a cool approach to this technique by being aware of how a pirouette would confuse animals and does a good job at implementing the concept into the moves, though it could have been all a coincidence.
I have pulled off one (1) effective use of a spin within melee range. It was a bastard sword duel, and me and my opponent had locked guards with the blades squeezed in between us. I still don't quite know *how* I did it, but I pushed him back and spun counterclockwise to free my sword from his guard, before I came down with a slash
My mans needs to get involved in a production that puts these tropes on their heads, where we actually see the flourishing spin get the dude doing it killed.
The spining techniques of the montante were used with the premise of having the clear range advantage though. Plus they were made to hold back several opponents at once. So, when used right, you never run into the problem of facing someone with your back while being in reach of his sword.
@@ilsgrade8357 you are mostly right yes, but not completely. I have trained with the montante for a while and there is at least on techniek used against one opponent witch involves spinning. It that case it is used to wind up some momentum in the sword to make an even bigger lunch than normally possible to come closer.
@@casthelion416 but as I understand the techniques, even then you are supposed to close the gap while spinning, so that the moment you are in reach, you're already facing towards the opponent again. Or did I miss something there?
@@ilsgrade8357, yeah, and that's what the video author was meaning. He even showed it himself with last example. You have to be faced toward your opponent to do an effective spin.
You could maybe potentially pull off a spin from grappling distance. It's unlikely, but once in a live fencing match me and my opponent both pushed to Cron and I spun, ducked at the same time and managed to hit him in the ribs. Will never happen again, couldn't do it intentionally if I tried, but was absolutely glorious lol
I thought spins could always show skill if done right. Instead of everyone doing them, make one person do it and make him do it in a way where he's still protected mid spin so that it kinda sends the message of "this guy is so good he can afford to spin and still keep up"
I think you should have included doing a spin while in a bind. Maybe you could cover that? Like an attack coming in and blocking/deflecting with your sword and then doing a spin step around the other person while still keeping your own sword in between you and their sword. Idk if it would work, intuitively I feel like there aren't any major flaws but I also don't have anyone to test it with in any way. Would be really cool if you were to cover it.
I came here to ask the same thing. You see this in MMA with spinning elbows off of clinch breaks. I would hypothesize that if someone overcommitted to a push on a bind, spinning out of it into a draw cut or short slash *might* work. Would have to try with someone who didn't know it was coming through.
@@shinomori69spinning is much more common in unarmed martial arts since you can take a strike to the back and not die. I don’t know how this situation will play out though.
Also notice in the distance spin, he maintains eye contact until looking over his left shoulder during the rotation, then he immediately turns his head to look over his right shoulder to regain eye contact and aim. Same principle is used for turning kicks in other martial arts.
I like when you just straight up teach without goofing or try to fit that useless spins to the fight. You've got so much knowledge and experience I'm happy to watch
To be fair, I think the main purpose of the spin attack in Zelda is for when you’re surrounded by enemies so it’s not like you’re leaving yourself any more open then otherwise.
This man has taught me so much about actual sword fighting, I don't think I would ever do HEMA personally but I can absolutely appreciate his knowledge and his fun that he has even with practice
@HªnzØ and the only effective way to use them would be to have the oppoment be between you and the blade and pulling it, unless its a double edged scythe. Just not worth the danger.
Honestly, what I kept seeing when you did the big spin correctly (maybe cause of the music) was two or three points of contact that would make it have a lot of sense: Sellsword rushes through the hallway to his foe, knowing what trap awaits him. He spins to his right, knocking down a drawbar at a quarter turn, slicing the ropes holding up the small portcullis behind him, and disarming the crossbow trap at 3/4 turn that would have shot him in the back. And, using the remaining momentum, lands a drastic first swing against the dastardly Renard. "I may wield a messier, but it's your precautions that are the true mess."
I remember somewhere i saw a character whose sword style was about opportunity baiting. He once did this and when was about to be stabbed, he put his sword parallel his back, parried the stab and when he completed the spin he used the momentum to slash as their opponent's defense was open.
The only time I have ever seen a close range spin move mid fight work was on the Node channel when they were doing larp sword fights and D did a spin move where he actually managed to get his sword behind his back mid spin and parry the incoming strike before doing one of his own. It was incredible.
When it is real sword fighting. You pretty much take what you can get. If he spins, then it is an opportunity that was presented. You take that strike to kill.
You can make spins in range safer if media makes shields more popular. When I’m fighting a veteran sword and board fighter, they sometimes mix things up with a spin, but while the spin the place their shields behind their backs. This prevents potential back hits and because of the fancy footwork, can potentially give them shoulder or back shots, which are good strikes.
I feel like this is a thing choreographers are *starting* to realize: you can HAVE all of these crazy fancy-looking movements, so long as you deploy them in ways where they physically make sense.
Or, if your character is some super soldier or something, you could have them hit so hard that their opponent has to regain their balance just from clashing swords, thus giving them time to do a fancy spin.
Same with reverse grip. It looks cool, but it isn't functional unless if it makes sense, like standing over someone sleeping and you're an assassin going in for the kill.
There's nothing stopping the opponent lunging while you're spinning from a distance either, not only throwing off your attack range, but adding unpredictability to the fight.
There are also times when spinning while up close can be done realistically. For example, if your opponent brings his sword down in an overhead slash, and you bring your sword up high to parry it at around head level, you can duck under and spin to try and get at your opponents from another angle. Another example is if your opponent is charging at you, you can sidestep, parry, pivot and spin, coming up behind them to slash them across the back. There’s also the “Behind the back flourish while you spin” maneuver, which (at least in a fantasy setting where the impossible is a daily occurrence) allows you to protect your back while spinning, thus eliminating the danger of the unnecessary spin.
In the place I learn sword fighting, I learned a counter attack to a horizontal cut where you block with the blade down and your handle above, then you have to do a spin so you hold the opponent's sword in your block all the time and at the end of the spin you cut their torso with one hand. It's hard to describe but I feel like it is a solid option when I do it because it doesn't put me in danger or complicated positions, so that might be an example of a close range spin
I do larping and one of my passions is to add spins when fighting beginners. Its just bad, but in most cases you don’t get punished for it and the enemy is just scared. Still suicidal but fun
The big spin that he did in the beginning can be useful in a couple situations like doing a really strong heavy attack that you break the block or easily glide through that enemy’s block that’s one of the reasons
Theres a scene in the new Mortal Kombat game that features a well done spin. Sub-zero vs scorpion, sub-zero attacks with an overhead strike with a blade in his right hand, and strikes with the same thing like 4 times, then spins, switching hands, and cutting him with his left hand. Tough to do, but it was pretty slick for the game
actually there was a spin in some professional swordfighting sport recently that worked, but it was no "big spin" it was a very tight turn following a cut, and the blade actually protected the back
There *are* ways to execute a spin attack where it's actually *advantageous* ; you can do the spin going into a *sidestep* and swinging the sword as you spin to both dodge your opponents attack and *add* the momentum of the spin to the momentum of your swing to give your strike to their exposed back more power than it'd have normally. If you're a dual wielder, or a one-hand and shield wielder, you can use your off-hand weapon to knock your opponents weapon *aside* , and use the momentum from that knock aside to go *into* your spin, and step in closer as you're spinning, swinging your main hand weapon while you're spinning to again add the momentum of the spin to the momentum of your swing to make your strike more powerful; the latter is *extremely* effective at allowing someone wielding *shorter* weapons to close in on an opponent wielding a *longer* weapon like a polearm. A two-handed weapon wielder that's surrounded can also use a spin attack to create a danger zone around them to keep any of the opponents surrounding them from closing in for the kill. All of the above of course, require the performer to be pretty *fast* ; not outside human limits fast, but still fast.
Forget making it as fantasy, this is legit good lesson on every fighting stances or strategy ever, conserve your length and distance properly, spinning is bad or not, it does added more velocity and force to your swings. Same as kicking or punching with wind up or building momentum, you didn't just look badass, but also cementing the lesson much harder😂
Weapons with a bit more heft can benefit from a spin by carrying the momentum from a swing instead of putting more energy into stopping it to reset, this, I think is a perfectly valid way to use a spin in writing, and if done correctly, can really add to the perception of the weapon as something with a serious capacity to mess someone up. Don’t make it absurdly heavy for no reason though, zweihänders are still only about 2-4 kilos. Just enough to benefit from following through with momentum, but not enough to be unwieldy and slow. Also works well when you have a character surrounded by a gang or something and they all have daggers or something of that ilk. The range of a great sword can be used in tandem with a spin to keep multiple enemies at bay and cleave through a few of them while you’re at it. The only issue with suspension of disbelief in that scenario is imagining why any group of dagger-laden thieves would be stupid enough to pick the person with the giant ass sword as a good target.
I think Anakin in Revenge of the Sith also does some pretty good spins, because he spins during battle, but during his spin, his light saber blade covers his back/the area that is facing his opponent the whole time so he doesn't give up his defense for the spin
Ever since I was a little kid, I always thought that the whole spinning was stupid because if your opponent was faster, they'd just cut you down. I remember being told that it was to add momentum and give your blow a bit more power, but I just never understood that.
I think the point of a spin in video games is to add momentum and power behind the spin. Like, usually a spin happens at the end of a combo or as a charged attack
Spinning in close distance actually can be done in a way that makes sense functionally. If you maintain a guard while you spin (see Obi-Wan vs Anakin on Mustafar. Obi-Wan and Anakin both spin within striking distance of each other but they maintain either hanging guards or pull off guards during flourishes to prevent their opponent from smacking them in the back) then at least the spin wouldn’t be an instant death sentence.
could the character do a spin while slicing someone’s throat before blades touch? Like the person that you’re slicing it’s just to side fighting somebody else
easiest way to faithfully include the bad spins? add a shield on mc's back that covers everything so the opponents sword bounces off, or same thing with armor.
One of my favorite spin moves is in Lord of the Rings, when Aragorn is charging at the Black Gate, he knocks aside an offending spear, then spins with the momentum of his swing, and hits the enemy line. Don’t know if it’s “realistic” or even practical, but it looks good, imo.
There was an episode of Highlander: The Series in which McLeod warned Ritchie that his opponent used a spin as her secret technique. Does anyone else remember that?
Even though starwars is pretty guilty of doing up close spinning I like that they also engage spins from a distance too and it just kinda feels like when they do it’s just a giant flex
Another example of a "good spin" was a chinese martial artist in a tournament last year i think? He was dual wielding those chinese hooked swords with hand guards, and was able to win a round with a spin move by taking a low stance and covering both sides of his body. Iirc he did it while the opponent was already on the back foot so to speak, and he would have been open if he missed it, but it was pretty cool still.
I made spin work once by first binding blades and at the same time stepping/pushing past your opponent forward right or left with footwork. At that stage of "overbinding" spinning the opposite direction is the only sensible way to free the bind and accelerate your blade to a cut.
Spinning in a sword fight can be an amazing tool if you were in an actual battle you could something like mma in close quarters and give a spinning elbow
That spin looks like it could be useful if there are other attackers as well! You'd close distance and ward off other swords that would otherwise try to get close, similar to how greatswords keep others at a distance
