Spirituality: The Enemy of Veganism 

Today I’m discussing spirituality and veganism. It’s a subject I’ve wanted to talk about for a long time but the recent video from Sophia Esperanza about why she’s no longer vegan gave me the final push to discuss my thoughts on this issue. I strongly believe that tying in whimsical and often anti-science beliefs with veganism is not a positive thing for veganism or the animals. In this video I explain why. Do let me know your thoughts below! 🌺 Get 20% off Wild deodorant by using the code EDTHUNDER through this link: bit.ly/edthunderwild 🌱 Make my work possible by becoming a supporter (thank you!): earthlinged.org/support

„Veganism is not a label for us, it is an ethical position for them.“ True! #veganforever ❤

Easy to feel so "connected" to nature when you're not the one being farmed, tortured and eventually killed

“What I had been told, taught, screamed at” well there you go. I never needed convincing. The animal’s suffering was all I needed to stop contributing to their suffering. No matter what she says she was never in it for the animals if she had to be “yelled” at to stop eating them and their body fluids. I consider myself spiritual. These people are a sad and cringey disappointment.

I’m a vegan not because I have an overwhelming love for animals. I’m vegan because I hate cruelty, suffering, abuse, oppression, exploitation and injustice, and I try as much as possible to avoid these.

How to become a spiritual ex-vegan: - Look for a sign (can be anything, like a 2 for 1 discount in the supermarket) - Follow the sign and pay for plain animal abuse and murder - Put on your thickest vocal fry and film yourself performing some spiritual act like touching grass or licking your crystals - Tell yourself and your audience it's all ok because you're on a jOurNeY and you're the center of the universe

I'm a spiritual person, me being vegan will never change, nothing natural about inflicting suffering. When I saw her make that statement, it was just an eye roll for me.

She got the egg straight from the chicken coop, held the world’s perfect egg close to her crystals, had a spiritual feeling, so she peeled the egg and ate it. The crystals cooked the egg?

“I consider everything as food” wow watch out if you visit her.

The lady missed an egg that morning and she finds it and all of a sudden the universe is speaking to her that she should eat eggs. And then it was the most DELICIOUS thing she's ever eaten in her life!? Please....

"We care about these animals emotionally, because we know intellectually we should." As a hippie, thank you for calling out the pseudo-awake "spiritual" narcissists.

This is new to me. My spirituality reinforces my veganism. My veganism reinforces my spirituality. But my spirituality has usually centered on ethics.

One of my former friends, a very spiritual hippie type person, told me she was no longer vegan because being vegan is “speciesist because it values animal lives above plants”. She claimed that plants deserve the same respect as animals so that’s why she went back to eating animal products. I said, “so you think mowing a lawn is equally as bad as hitting a dog with your car?” She said yes and refused to back down 💀 I decided she was either stupid or crazy and changed the subject. Needless to say, we are no longer friends

A vegetarian with an end speciesism tattoo is hilarious lmao 😂😂😂 Thanks for making the video and exposing those self centered A holes

I got so tired of going to a yoga studio where they all thought they were at a higher level than most and ate meat.

You can't preach peace and love while slitting an innocents throat.

"Veganism is not a label for us, it's an ethical position for them." - LOVE IT

Never thought about how we romanticize nature because we only expose ourselves to the good side of it

Thank you for covering Sophia Esperanza. She’s always struck me as a self absorbed narcissist. The way she talks, while showing artistic shots, and show casing her body, while trying to explain why she now exploits animals is hilarious to me. I saw it coming 💀 and she’s just a joke to me. She claims to be an animal activist?

*Tough decision Meme* Someone gives you an egg: Option 1: Decline it and explain your ethical believes Option 2: Lick a crystal ball, eat the egg, throw your ethical believes out the window and publicly announce it to the internet

"The question we should ask ourselves is not 'What is MY truth?' but 'What is THE truth?'. We should all be sceptical about OUR truth; our truth might convince us to do terrible things or to believe in things that are absurd." SPOT ON, Ed!! Yes!!!

Objective, rational, and passionate. This is why I love Ed Winters.

It's sad because "spirituality" isn't the enemy of veganism. Egoism, materialism, fame, and money disguised as spirituality are. I'd consider myself a very "spiritual" person, but it is part of what connects to my vegan lifestyle, not what takes me away from it.

That woman talking about the egg and “the end of the end” of her being vegan made me cringe and feel secondhand embarrassment.

The spiritualists remind me of Bob’s Burgers when Bob meets a cow and then feels guilty for eating and serving it in his restaurant. Then he has a vision of the cow telling Bob to eat him. Bob stops for a second and says something like, “Wait, aren’t you just my mind telling me what I want to hear?” 😂

This is one of your best videos ED, if not the best, from an epistemological perspective. Me, 50 years plant-based (vegan) and it was (by far) the best moral-ethical decision that I ever made.

One can not preach love and light while simultaneously funding the perpetual cycle of animal abuse and mvrder. Hypocrisy at its finest

nearly choked on my noodles - love you Ed, calling it out. This is such toxic crapola. Also climate change activists not making the connection is annoying.

Every single part of my heart and soul tells me to be vegan, as well as my head.

“Spiritual” people who eat animals were always so confusing to me. Like you’re so “zen and chill” but you eat animals? Makes no sense

I’d consider myself a spiritual gal. But I was a science loving gal first. I try to be logically and ethically consistent. So, I’m vegan.

THANK YOU!!! This is probably the #1 most infuriating excuse I hear, from so called “spiritual” people who use their “spirituality, intuition, in touch with my ancestors, honoring Indigenous peoples of the Earth, my truth, eating animal products just feels right in my body, it’s my journey, Namaste”, co-opting “spiritual” speak to try to justify their own narcissism and consumption of animal products and thus selfish cruelty, such phony B.S. Great video. 👏👏👏💚💪

Thank you Ed for calling out vile narcissism that promotes violence.

I fancy myself a normal human with a normal job - I’ve been vegan 10 years. Will never stop. These woo woo influencers make me cringe so hard and deeply disappoint me. Seeing their argument feels so clearly flawed and watching people go praise them for their bravery etc is hard. But thank you for the work you do and using your words to describe this better than I could. Us normal vegans without wild restrictions or a need for performing content appreciate your steadiness on our side.

THANK YOU for talking about this. I had been following Yoga GIrl for years and years, she was part of the reason I became vegan. And I was so incredibly disappointed when she just abandoned it all, with no real reason other than "some higher power told me to". And it's just BS. But there's a big trend going on right now amongst health influencers, for them veganism was only a diet and was super trendy up until 2022. The new healthy trend is to eat meat, so they follow. It was never about the animals.

Thank you for calling the bs Ed!

As a scientist and a buddhist, I fully agree. It's not about our subjective experience, it's about the victims. It's about the only reasonable position to have when you know other beings feel.

I am Vegan because I don't want animals harmed on my behalf, and I will never stop.

Nothing spiritual takes place in a slaughterhouse.

It's gross when empathy and narcissism get mixed around.

Wait, Yoga Girl, did I hear right? The chicken laid a hard boiled egg that she peeled and it wasn’t refrigerated and she just ate it cuz it was “there”?

I became a vegetarian in 1976. I was sure my diet was cruelty free to animals. We just didn't have the exposure to information like we do today. Awareness reveals what is right and what is wrong. Keep up the good work Ed! Millions of animals thank you!

Yes! And wouldn't "leading with my heart" also mean employing respect, compassion and empathy for others?

I've been waiting for a video like this! I'm in LA, surrounded by these types of people. Not a knock on spirituality in general, but when you hide behind it to push these logical and unethical inconsistencies, it takes the focus away from the true victims-- the animals.

I feel a little attacked by “you can only glamorise nature because you are disconnected from it”. So I really need that reminder! Thank you

I don't know how someone can talk about love and positivity while paying for some else to kill innocent animals when we don't have too and have amazing plant based foods. These people really give spirituality and ancient traditions a really bad name. I am vegan and used my head and followed my heart. Being a whole foods vegan will benefit any spiritual practice.

I love how passionate you got towards the end. First time I’ve seen you express frustration openly. It was definitely warranted. Someone had to say it 👏🏻

Absolutely love this video. Let’s be honest here about these people’s motivations. They lost the fight. They weren’t able any longer to put the importance of reduced suffering ahead of their own selfish desires for taste. Spirituality is the disguise they’re using to try to make them not appear to be a hypocrite based off their previously stated views and actions. The real shame is that in order to disguise their hypocrisy, they feel the need to share it with their audiences, adding further still to the prospect of animal cruelty. A well made argument Ed, as always.

Please don't ever change. You're our perfect spokesperson. With all the backlash we find ourselves up against, you are the emotional rejuvenation we need.

"Nothing feels more liberating than living in your truth." That's a fancy way of saying: "It doesn't matter what happens to others, as long as it feels good to ME."

You nailed this so damn hard. I've had it with the spiritual and holistic communities

Well said Ed. I've never trusted a Vegan who's on a "Journey".

For me my spiritual beliefs actually reinforces me being a vegan. When I got ordained as a lay-Buddhist it added another dimension of why veganism is the way to go. In Zen-Buddhism you have the bodhisattva vow “I vow to liberate all sentient beings” and the very first of the 16 precepts I vowed to follow reads “I vow to appreciate all life and not kill” so that’s hard to misinterpret any other way

Absolutly brilliant as always! Your arguments are spot on! Loved when you said “ You’re not freeing yourself by not being vegan, you’re just choosing to oppress someone else instead “.

I was a vegan back in the early 90s and then became an ex- vegan, but I wasn’t like on social media or anything I just fell for the humane aspect of the animal industry and began eating only humanely raised animal products for a while. But then I had a surgery and I was out of work for a while and I saw Garry yurovskis best speech ever on RU-vid and I was instantly a vegan again. That was in 2015.

The narcisism is nauseating, and they have no clue about real spirituality. Thank you for exposing this, Ed.

Sophia might not be vegan anymore, but she still enjoys a good word salad.

brb just need to mindfully pay for the slaughter of a chicken because i felt it was right in my soul ✌🏻 (it's okay i meditated afterwards)

The majority of people who give up being Vegan don't make a video about it. This raises a red flag to me and the fact that these people are all talking like adverts for meat, eggs, fish, honey etc makes it clear that it's about money and nothing eles. These people are are being paid to do this. No mystery.

I love how factually and calmy you explain things, Ed. In my experience, people who stop being vegans do so, because they don't put the animals at the centre of their life choice. If you're in it because you genuinely care about the suffering of animals and put them at the centre of your decision rather than your own wants, there is no other option but to live a vegan life. Listening to Sophia makes it clear that to her, it's about herself, what SHE wants. The animals are secondary to her. And to so many other people.

9 years ago since I went vegan I always remember buddhist teaching 'if you want to end suffering, don't cause suffering first' (law of karma) however difficult that might be, I think that's an essence of spirituality and it includes compassion for all beings.

Why can’t they just say they fancied eating some animal products instead of chatting BS?! Lol 😂

I use to work at a vegan cafe, where pretty much all of us were vegan, highly supportive of the movement, and relatively vocal in our small city. Every single person other than myself and my two buddies that worked there turned back. Similar ambiguous and abstract reasons were given, some borderline spiritual/intuitive, but from my perspective it was simply getting involved with the "locavore" community that did it. Without being part of this community it was very hard to have friends in more rural settings and very hard to own land and create their own food, which is also a very good thing to do in support of lowering suffering globally. So they all started to settle for some local backyard eggs, then a local goat, and then before you know it, whenever they are out and about they buy any vegetarian, sometimes even meat/fish based products. One of the more vocal vegans who switched positions would say how much better they felt after eating seafood, that is was healthy, yet upon reconnecting and meeting up the first 15 minutes was him complaining about his health. It was only hours later in our hang-out when the topic of veganism arose, followed by his consumption of oysters and fish, that he started to portray it as healthy and great, even though he both looked like and admitted that he is less healthy lately. This Sophie girl seems like she is part of a community, small, local, rural, etc. that is living vegetarian. I don't think it is God, or her intuition telling her to consume these products and then prompt others to do so in a totally different environment that isn't so "happy", it is most likely feelings of fear, insecurity, need for belonging, and need for stability that are pushing her to think this is the right solution just like pretty near all my friends/coworkers did in the face of joining small rural communities. Sacrificing the lives of animals for their own comfortable living situation, trying to balance the scales of "well it's local" vs "well it is not mutilating, caging and torturing innocent beings", as if the former is better. The issue with these local communities is that they have even more responsibility to be vegan and they don't see it: they OWN land, it is theirs, people and other beings DEPEND upon them, so if they don't create a framework for vegans to coexist, it is actually kinda terrible of them. We can justify anything in the name of God, but if we truly love God, then we love all of creation as much as possible. This means we are going to hurt as few animals and beings as possible. In the "alignment" of spirit, veganism is still the only logical choice. I research Eastern Spirituality, Religion and Philosophy as my life's work, and the primary realization from Sufism to Hinduism to Jainism to Buddhism to Daoism to Zen....is that it is all one infinite, seamless consciousness, filled and brimming with life, feeling and love, and is technically beyond all labels and conceptual limitation. This oneness of existence, beyond our beliefs about it, is what the spiritual paths are meant to help us realize and live. In this, intuition, feelings, high powers, are not actual things that exist, they are simply labels and concepts for what is infinite. Science, logic, rationality, plants, animals, and doing the dishes are all part of that same God, that same oneness. You cannot ignore them in favor of some illusory concept of "intuition or feeling". I do believe that some patterns could honestly be called intuition, however, I think most of the time we just call our biases and fears intuition. In the face of God, living a spiritual life, we cannot earnestly live in our harmful desires. We are harming the very thing we admire, adore, desire, proclaim, worship, follow, etc. by harming other life for our own gain or preference. That other life is the spirit, it is God, it is wholly and equally part of the "spiritual" world, and deserves to be treated as such.

Well done, Ed! If someone has a good grasp of the fundamental understanding when they first choose a vegan lifestyle, it's important to consider why they went vegan in the first place. I would suggest that if everyone on this Earth had the thought: "If we wouldn't want to be subjected to suffering, exploitation, or harm ourselves, then we shouldn't impose these things on other sentient beings." This sharpest ethical perspective doesn't necessarily require religious teachings or divine guidance. Instead, it can be viewed as a natural extension of our basic sense of fairness and empathy, rooted in the understanding that all living beings, whether human or non-human, have the desire to live free from harm. For those people who appear in front of the camera and announce, "I QUIT VEGAN," it's possible that they might have been influenced by trends, peer pressure, or misinformation. Therefore, their initial motivation to go vegan may not have been firmly grounded in a strong commitment to principles of fairness and empathy toward all living beings. Keep the good work Ed Peace & Love be with you.

To be honest, my vegan path started years ago with a sort of a "spiritual awakening", or what I should call a (almost) sudden expansion of awareness. As an professional artist, a good comparison would be, how in a learning process one can notice over time that an image consists also of a shadows and not only a light, or how much of a depth there is between a different shades of gray. That being said, you're definitely right about how lots of people get lost in their own feelings and interpretations of a certain ideas. The so called "spiritual" culture that arose in the past decade or so, on the foundation of often ancient spiritual teachings, quickly became an usurper of itself. In my observation, especially RU-vid serves as a kind of an incubator of extremely narcissistic individuals, living in a bubble, who gain their followers on the basis of their attractive bodies and/or often coincidentally convenient ideas. Over the years, quite a number of my friends got inspired by an "urban gurus", who advised some crazy concepts, with expectedly poor results. Discernment is what I would call one of the fundamental spiritual principles - the thing is, everyone is on a different stage of their own awareness in life, and this will always cause misinterpretation by a whole lot of people. As counterintuitive it may seem, I personally aplaud every vegetarian I come across, as in my mostly carnivorous country (Poland), that's one person out of thousand (or more) I meet, and I feel it is somewhat closer to the "right" thing, than being entirely unconscious of ones own way of life. Even regarding the "plant-feelings" issue, I do recognize that it is a living matter and in itself deserves a respect. What is obvious to me though, it's not a type of a living matter directly comparable to any animal, therefore it requires a slightly different definition. I guess, ahiṃsā is the most universal way of looking at this, as it could be used as a synonym to veganism - to not cause needless harm to no thing AND to ourselves, which in process of elimination leaves plant-based living as a best solution. That is of course, if we do not take more than we require. All I can hope for a modern "spiritual culture" is that discernment will eventually spread based on clear awareness, and not opinion of people who talk with a nightsky stars, trip a bit too often or collect crystals for a living. To see things as they are.

It's not about us, its about the animals who don't have a voice. We will NEVER stop for them.

My spiritual awakening began when I went vegan. ❤

They were never Vegan for the animals…they ask sounds so selfish, heartless and ridiculous! Thank you Ed, you always know the right things to say, love you and everything you do for the Animals!🌱❤️

I had an ayahuasca awakening and I'm into synchronicities and all that, but would never use it as an excuse to support animal suffering. You are spot on!

I've been vegan for 8 years and I'm also very spiritual. I feel such a soul deep connection to animals and I wouldn't be able to sleep at night if I continued to support their needless suffering.

THIS!! Thank you Ed!! I too am so tired of human animals and their holier than thou bs. With their Mother Earth/Universe/God excuse for having zero self control and so they revert to eating and/or using animals.

Ed, the patience you have to explain stuff like this so calmly is mind-blowing. I hear any one of these people talk about how they quit and they sound delusional and self-absorbed. It sounds like they're trying to convince themselves out loud that they truly believe in the wacky stuff their "spirt" or "heart and mind" told them.

If anything, spirituality helped me to question my habits and become a vegan in the first place. But for many people it is just an excuse.

"Better to be a happy idiot than someone who knows the truth" - Michael Scott They're just on that whoo-whoo train. I'm a heathen and a vegan because of logic and reason, not emotions.

Pseudo spiritual people quoting pseudo science to justify their current pseudo thinking. When they finally grow up, I hope they recant their positions… Great post, Ed 😌🙏

Spirituality is the reason for my veganism. Being aware of others and how they are feeling, being sensitive and questioning everything…these people are narcissists because narcissism and fake spirituality seem to go together like marks n Spencer’s.

As a person who chose to become a vegan out of a combination of "spiritual woo woo" and science I still choose to remain Vegan out of "Love". As you stated, the science supports it as one of the best ways to not impact life negatively, so as someone who wants to l"ove my neighbour as I love myself". I will acknowledge the science that tell's me how to best do that. Thank you for sharing points that are valid and forgotten by many of us on spiritual journeys, hopefully some might learn and choose not to take offense, cause as "woo woo" as it may sound, we are all in this together and the least we can do, is not hurt each other (including animals).

19:06 EXACTLY! I’m so glad you made this point! It’s the message that people will follow and non vegans will continue to buy dairy, eggs, and honey because the animals are happy or we have a “synergistic” relationship with them. Thank you so much for saying this! It makes me so sad when vegans lose their way. They (ex-vegans) probably cause more damage to veganism than meat eaters.

I worked in a metaphysical shop and it's chock full of spiritual narcissists. These are the worst. They fully believe they are somehow entitled to a burger from McDonald's but will turn around and drink kombucha and claim it's to cleanse their gut. 😂😂😂

I literally went vegan after taking ayahuasca! It’s soo spiritual to not meat! You don’t consume their fears being in the slaughter house. I felt like my soul was so aligned being vegan after ayahuasca. Since then im 7 years vegan now!

Sofia may not be a vegan anymore, but she can still toss together a great word salad.

This is your best video ever Ed. I would love to see a debate set up between you and these selfish spiritualists.

Thanks Ed - Great explanation of the risks of both supernatural and ecocentric thinking. They often go together and risk warping our compassion for non-human and human animals alike. Interesting point that these ways of thinking are presented as humble ("I'm just playing my part in the circle of life!") but are often deeply egocentric ("the universe sent ME a message!") - leading people to disregard the perspectives, interests and needs of other sentient beings. I prefer a worldview committed to "evidence, reason and compassion for all sentient beings" - i.e. @Sentientism. That seems a much more solid grounding for our beliefs/credences and for our ethics.

I’m vegan and spiritual, for me they go totally hand in hand and I see what Eds saying people do hide behind their spirituality which then in turn questions how spiritual they really are.

"Although there *is* a feeling in your heart that should compel you to be vegan - it's called *angina*." Yessss😂🔥

Oddly enough, spirituality was my way into a vegan lifestyle. I was meditating and listening to people who had near death experiences where they had to experience the pain they inflicted on others (including animals) toward themselves from the perspective of the other being. This resonated deeply with me and I decided to stop eating animals and their products.

Truly spiritual people are vegans...there is NO alternative!

You can’t claim to be truly spiritual and not be vegan. It’s impossible.

Spirituality and veganism should go hand in hand imo. ‘Ahimsa’ or ‘non-violence’ is integral to spiritual practice, or at last it should be!

As always, thank you Ed for being an unshakable voice for reason within the community.

your videos are the equivalent of journalistic essays - so poignant, well-researched and rethorically clear. thank you for building and using this skill you have for the animals

Thank you for this video Ed! The narcissistic tendencies of the woowoo crowd are incredibly annoying. I find it much more annoying than ppl who just don't care. They're fairly insufferable. I think you're a fantastic philosopher Ed. I know you're mission is purely veganism but everything you said could equally be applied to many moral quandaries.

Ed, the GOAT. You're the best. I find this issue to be superrrrr frustrating. Like some of these ex-vegans sound so crazy! You help to make true sense of it all. Thanks for all that you do for the animals! Love that quote too, the vegan label isn't for us but an ethical position for them 💯❤

I was seeing last night a video with one of the farmers that stopped sending cows to slaughter and sent them to sanctuary. He said the beginning of his awakening was transcendental meditation. It helped him feel a connection to the animals he cared for and he could no longer hurt them. That’s true spiritual awakening in my mind. He’s now a vegan farmer.

As we can see, to be abusive, even spiritual abusive, is a sense of entitlement, an attitute of arrogance and ignorance, which is bottomless. The only antidote is common sense. Thank you for this video and I'm grateful you finally spoke about this topic ❤

Ed you are a blessing to the movement! I'm so glad that the community can count on such an intelligent and compassionate human being, you are my bible and are helping me so much spreading the message in a reasonable and effective way. Lots of love from Italy ❤️

My spirituality makes me go vegan. Well its just a theory but i feel like consciousness is some attribute of the universe, so the universe has to experience everything to the extend that a thing can have an experience. That kinda means that i and you and we all would have to experience all the animal deaths, since we are all the universe that is experiencing itself. Idk if this is true but it would be pretty terrible, so we should finally get some utopia or something going, its time. Taking care of each other cant be that bad either way

Something significant that I see more often is the “I accept [that I’m doing something that I know is wrong.]” or “I accept the moral contradiction.” I consider myself a quite spiritual person, but never understood why people who call themselves “connected” with Mother Nature, didn’t make the connection and go vegan, when they’re able to. Connecting to our roots and our ancestors is important to me, that’s what I learned, and so are all sentient and non-sentient beings in this world. Is it so difficult to practice kindness? Does it take anything away from us? I don’t think so. Thanks for this video, Ed, very sad to see spirituality used as a facade for doing something so horrendous and needless, when one has the ability to not do it.

This man's debate topics around veganism are so varied and interesting. Top notch ⭐️⭐️🌟⭐️⭐️

Personally , finding spirituality is what led me to become vegan