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Spreaders, Flangers, and Doublestacks on Donner Pass! 

7idea Productions
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This is winter railroading on Donner Pass. While winter storms dump snow in California's Sierra Nevada Mountains, Flangers and Jordan Spreaders work hard to keep trains moving. Not just flangers and spreaders are featured here, we also include doublestack and unit grain trains plus Amtrak's California Zephyr rolling through winter's white.
These scenes were taken from our 2010 DVD release: "Donner Pass: Stacks in the High Sierras" which is available on DVD, Blu-ray, and Digital Download by visiting this link here:
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25 сен 2024

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Комментарии : 529   
@chrismair8161
@chrismair8161 Год назад
Grand Daddy spent 35years working as a Fireman in the Caboose. Still have all the letters he mailed to his wife. My Grandma.
@7ideaproductions
@7ideaproductions Год назад
What a treasure that is!
@3vpme2
@3vpme2 Год назад
Do you think ol granny would eat his bum after a sweaty long days work
@ShahadatAlam-tf5om
@ShahadatAlam-tf5om 8 месяцев назад
Q​@@GurpreetSingh-fw8wh
@krystalstarrett6760
@krystalstarrett6760 2 года назад
Been through Donner many times truck driving, often thought of hard work of railroaders... Now retired, God bless you, be safe, and have fun.
@samyadeepbasu1570
@samyadeepbasu1570 Год назад
ột bài hát rất hoài niệm , nhớ những ngày bồng bột của tuổi trẻ, chút kỷ niệm của tình yêu, lời chia tay vội vàng đúng như cái bồng bột ấy. Đức Phúc cover lại bài hát này tâm trạng quá !
@gregsmith1719
@gregsmith1719 2 года назад
Boy, those double-deckers with the brown sides set so low they look like sleds on the snow -- really cool!
@DelayInBlockProductions
@DelayInBlockProductions 2 года назад
7idea is what inspired me to create my own railfan production company and I am forever grateful for their impact. Brilliant video, guys, as always. -Drayton
@7ideaproductions
@7ideaproductions 2 года назад
Wow that's pretty cool!
@JF-lt5zc
@JF-lt5zc 2 года назад
@@7ideaproductions If you haven't watched DIB videos, 7idea, you should. Quality stuff.
@kishascape
@kishascape Год назад
Lol "company". At least you have a real name that doesn't sound like some cheap chinese off brand.
@williamh.jarvis6795
@williamh.jarvis6795 Год назад
@@GJj-f7p Dad says the samething (or very similar) about the length of today's commercial breaks, unlike those of back then, (in his younger years).
@benediktmorak4409
@benediktmorak4409 2 года назад
i would say, hat off to the camera team who had to brace the cold, snow and what not, to give us such a nice video!
@maryables6752
@maryables6752 Год назад
I agree trains and trucks are our life line. Thank you for being there for 🇺🇸
@dennisnickoloff1723
@dennisnickoloff1723 2 года назад
In the 80's a friend and I used to sit on one of the tunnel capstones as trains crawled up the mountain. The power of the locomotives was unforgettable
@7ideaproductions
@7ideaproductions Год назад
Back in the good ol' SP days! That would have been awesome!
@JackCarsonsRailroadVideos
@JackCarsonsRailroadVideos 2 года назад
I owned y'all's cascades and shasta DVDs growing up. This bring back so many memories thank y'all for what y'all do.
@7ideaproductions
@7ideaproductions 2 года назад
Thank you for watching!
@mikemarley2389
@mikemarley2389 2 года назад
I remember going over Donner Pass in my dads truck .And riding shotgun 60 years ago was pretty scary looking down Echo Summit on the looking down side way up in the cab as a young kid.I have seen 40 ft drifts in that area.
@rbfishcs123
@rbfishcs123 Год назад
I'm glad I don't work on the RR anymore, but seeing the snow dumping down on the rails brings back the memories.
@rogerhuber3133
@rogerhuber3133 12 дней назад
I've seen many videos of snow trains on Donner Pass but this is the very best of them all. Great descriptions!
@fhowland
@fhowland 2 года назад
Every time I drive from Sacramento to Truckee I’m amazed how gradually the scenery changes from lush and palm trees to 10’ of snow. Such a cool part of the country. Some of the best winter railroading footage I’ve ever seen!
@7ideaproductions
@7ideaproductions 2 года назад
Thanks!
@galinkrastev4427
@galinkrastev4427 Год назад
Who else can appreciate the raw power of truly built American muscle...I love this shit
@CriticoolHit
@CriticoolHit Год назад
Magnificent. With both wings extended that's a whole lotta snow movin' real quick.
@dixieboy5689
@dixieboy5689 Год назад
I remember going to an undergound rail yard near there , with a friend. It was cut out of the rock. Quite impressive. I forget the name of the yard. It was 50 years ago.....
@7ideaproductions
@7ideaproductions Год назад
You might be thinking of Norden. Workers lived there even in the winter when it was buried in snow. It had a turntable inside the snow sheds.
@dixieboy5689
@dixieboy5689 Год назад
@@7ideaproductions >>>> Yes, thats it. Thanks. Id love to go back some day.
@probablynotmyname8521
@probablynotmyname8521 2 года назад
Being a driver for those trains is a crazy job.
@Guillotines_For_Globalists
@Guillotines_For_Globalists 2 года назад
For anyone interested, the strange looking circles on the glass in the snow plow cabs are actually spinning marine windows manufactured by Visiport. They spin to keep them clear versus using windshield wipers.
@ph11p3540
@ph11p3540 2 года назад
Commonly spotted on ice breaker ships and Newfoundland Fishing boats
@Guillotines_For_Globalists
@Guillotines_For_Globalists 2 года назад
@@ph11p3540 Yes, or industrial machinery such as an enclosed waterjet.
@epistte
@epistte 2 года назад
What is the strange contraption on the roof of those locomotives?
@lloydzierlein4492
@lloydzierlein4492 2 года назад
Good stuff
@Guillotines_For_Globalists
@Guillotines_For_Globalists 2 года назад
@@epistte I was wondering the same if you're referring to the wire looking structure on top of the cab. My guess would be to deflect hanging tree branches weighed down by snow and ice?
@phuturephunk
@phuturephunk 2 года назад
I love US railroading. Excellent video.
@drats1279
@drats1279 2 года назад
I lived in Carmichael during high school in the mid-sixties and made the trip to Truckee and beyond numerous times. Always beautiful and fun. Great video and trains. thanks for sharing.
@wendell6468
@wendell6468 Год назад
first time here. looks very interesting. ive always loved trains. i grew up on the south side of Chicago many years ago and there are several rail yards around my area. this is something very new to me, as i am an old USAF munitions veteran. totally different but still cool, only in another way.
@bigtex144
@bigtex144 Год назад
I love Truckee and Donner Pass. In the summer, I'll spend all morning hiking and exploring the summit tunnels, then the afternoon with a craft beer and a meal on patio near the tracks to watch trains go by. Never been in the winter (too difficult to get there and back in this kind of weather) but boy I'd love to experience a winter adventure like this someday! Incredible shots, thanks for posting
@7ideaproductions
@7ideaproductions Год назад
When it comes to shooting trains, Donner in winter is one of the most difficult and the most rewarding.
@cory109
@cory109 Год назад
I grew up there. Once you see it in the winter you will never want to leave again.
@7ideaproductions
@7ideaproductions Год назад
I don't blame you!
@2puffs770
@2puffs770 Год назад
I really have taken for granted all the hard work and dedication of the railroad workers that keep our products moving. Whether by rail, sea, or sky.....it all boils down to the big rig operator delivering to our stores. Great job, everyone.
@joemc111
@joemc111 2 года назад
Nice production, You guys are real fans to be out there in that kind of weather.
@ronaldstephens5405
@ronaldstephens5405 Год назад
What an interesting film I certainly enjoyed this verry much. I remembered when I was a boy I watched the train widening the dirt sides on the clearance for the train with a steam locomotive and the rail moved and the engine fell on the ties. They had to bring a crane in from the other end and lift the engine back on. There was no diesel engines back then.
@eugeniustheodidactus8890
@eugeniustheodidactus8890 2 года назад
*Absolutely breath taking scenery and photography !*
@glennyoung1251
@glennyoung1251 Год назад
Great railroad footage. And falling snow makes the video all the more pleasing to the eye.
@rdozzi6682
@rdozzi6682 Год назад
Great job. Scenery is fantastic. Photographer knows his stuff.
@youknowme8578
@youknowme8578 2 года назад
Without trains and truckers this county would be screwed, thanks to all of you to keep America running!
@leolauzon9205
@leolauzon9205 2 года назад
As a truck driver thank you and your welcome
@bumfit5491
@bumfit5491 2 года назад
There’s a lot of trades that people don’t realize how important the work is and has been for generations …. Sanitation , industrial plants , power plants ..
@u2mister17
@u2mister17 2 года назад
@@bumfit5491 Now if we could get the unions to start working for America instead of the left.
@bumfit5491
@bumfit5491 2 года назад
@@u2mister17 a union is only as good or bad as its members. All the officers are elected by vote of the membership. All contracts are approved by vote. All money matters are voted upon . Sounds kinda democratic …
@bumfit5491
@bumfit5491 2 года назад
@@u2mister17 PS union craftsmen built this country , built the power plants built the mills and refineries.. built the skyscrapers in NY and the golden gate in SF …. Everything in between ….
@markchwala2913
@markchwala2913 Год назад
I just love trains period and these work very hard to keep the tracks clear.I cant believe they can do this the engines must be very powerful!
@markthomas6436
@markthomas6436 3 месяца назад
When four GP-38's are used, it's 8,000 hp. 😊
@albutterfield5965
@albutterfield5965 2 года назад
I lived not too far from Truckee in the 60's and 70's keeping interstate 80 and the train tracks open is almost a full time job in a normal winter. we had friends that had a house at Soda Springs and in the winter one would enter the thru the second story deck
@skimmer8774
@skimmer8774 2 года назад
Awsome view @ 21.35. Snow vs power. That's a WOW.
@lance31415
@lance31415 2 года назад
Snow in Donner Pass is no joke. It's not just the depth (3' - 6' events are common), but the density especially in the late season storm in Feb - March. Keeping the pass open (UP tracks and I80) is tough work.
@kaylahyshka6135
@kaylahyshka6135 2 года назад
Eunos triangles 200 mph even a Canadian national even in Union Pacific and Canadian Pacific
@bobbysolo5411
@bobbysolo5411 2 года назад
I saw a TV story about I-80 snow removal teams and they said there are things in the concrete so snow plows can drive by instrumentation when visibility is nil. When it's all snow, the road can just be anywhere. How cool is that? Why isn't it national so we could GPS our way anywhere we like on auto navigation.
@dennishilmas1331
@dennishilmas1331 2 года назад
I'm a former locomotive mechanic and I enjoy this stuff.
@nancysmith2295
@nancysmith2295 2 года назад
I lived in Reno, Nevada growing up. We went up to the Truckee area year round to visit, drive through, and play in the snow in winter and the lakes in summer. Occasionally watching the clearing of the tracks of snow in winter was awesome. I enjoyed watching this video as it reminded me of the area. I now live near Yreka, California which happens to be quite a bit like Reno when I was a child.
@ge45gecalled39
@ge45gecalled39 2 года назад
Truckee, had a coffee/restaurant that had pancakes that stacked high enough to please any lumber jack, that was 58 years ago, going over donner pass could be your last meal, the rigs then were nothing like they have now.
@philliphall5198
@philliphall5198 Год назад
My uncle said they would think that would be there last meal and joked about it
@paulkoza8652
@paulkoza8652 2 года назад
Nothing warmer than being in the cab of a diesel on a cold day. Great video.
@jeanmariehovancik3298
@jeanmariehovancik3298 2 года назад
Nothing warmer than just retiring and setting in your own house and not having to get out in the cold. Lol
@williamh.jarvis6795
@williamh.jarvis6795 Год назад
@@jeanmariehovancik3298 Yeah! My dad feels the same way. I have just a little more time until my chance becomes reality.
@catlover2368
@catlover2368 2 года назад
have Donner pass on my train simulator one very fun and dangerous route!
@DanMeyer80
@DanMeyer80 2 года назад
Guy in Midwest, "I'm sick of all this snow, I'm heading out to California where it never snows!!" Meanwhile in California:
@7ideaproductions
@7ideaproductions 2 года назад
Northern California
@Prionel
@Prionel 2 года назад
Very interesting! Thanks for posting.
@timbarner7413
@timbarner7413 2 года назад
I got caught driving from Reno to Sacramento with rain turning to blinding snow as I approached Donner summit, followed by a downpour of rain all the way to the Sac airport. It was like two different worlds, but I made my flight just in time.
@az8theist977
@az8theist977 2 года назад
Hi Tim. May I ask what time of year that was? I'm thinking of taking some vaca time and exploring that area.
@tonydavey3741
@tonydavey3741 2 года назад
Thank you very much for braving that weather to bring us a glimpse into what go's on on the pass in the fight to keep it open, living in England we never see snow like that, if we get a few wet leaves on the track the trains stop LOL
@mariolopez-ri8wd
@mariolopez-ri8wd Год назад
Donner Pass beautiful scenary lots snow nice
@Fatal_Inertia
@Fatal_Inertia 2 года назад
It's crazy how the horns sound in snow without any reflections. It's a very dry sound.
@rolacase
@rolacase 2 года назад
The wheel's of industry turning. This is what keeps our world and life as we know it constant.
@schwags1969
@schwags1969 Год назад
That is a lot of power pushing a lot of snow.
@kishascape
@kishascape Год назад
Nothing like a nice day of railroady fun in the snow :3
@bobjohnson1587
@bobjohnson1587 2 года назад
I haven't seen my railway run a spreader or snowplow on the mainline on my division for decades! They just let us plough it with the locomotives! Cheap!
@hanscom0790
@hanscom0790 2 года назад
Im always broke living paycheck to paycheck so I can't afford buying the full length videos. Thank you for posting this as I've always wanted to see the full length version of the Snow Fighters.
@7ideaproductions
@7ideaproductions 2 года назад
You're welcome! Thanks for checking in.
@richardpeters7136
@richardpeters7136 2 года назад
An absolutely outstanding video
@ronfogarty3888
@ronfogarty3888 Год назад
Awesome I love that snow keep it up
@victorcontreras9138
@victorcontreras9138 2 года назад
What a great video! Never realized how snow could be such a problem for the rails until I saw this! Much is appreciated on the work they do. Thanks.⚠️
@paulmadruga9786
@paulmadruga9786 2 года назад
wow! Outstanding documentary! Thank You.
@ralphbyles142
@ralphbyles142 2 года назад
A Great presentation. Nothing like this in Australia! Different challenges with different skills. Fantastic!!
@laurieharper1526
@laurieharper1526 2 года назад
Great stuff. I'm watching this in the UK. My hat is off to your railroaders for operating successfully in such harsh winter conditions.
@horacecrowe3520
@horacecrowe3520 Год назад
very impressive and beautiful images
@heinzbreuer2674
@heinzbreuer2674 2 года назад
Super Winter Impressionen Video toll gemacht weiterhin good Lucky Train
@brentcovert1531
@brentcovert1531 2 года назад
Well, aside of the negative comments, I could care less when this was filmed..I think it's awesome. Great job. Thanks for posting.
@mistzy8435
@mistzy8435 2 года назад
*there are negative comments?*
@brentcovert1531
@brentcovert1531 2 года назад
@@mistzy8435 just some complainers..saying it's old stuff..
@royal552
@royal552 Год назад
Great Video Thank You, Sir!
@community1949
@community1949 2 года назад
34 feet of snow falls up there - wow!!!
@jamielacourse7578
@jamielacourse7578 2 года назад
I admire your commitment. Plus I love being out in the snow. 21 years of Edmonton winters will do that.
@roberthenry9319
@roberthenry9319 2 года назад
This is truly a fabulous video. The knowledge, planning, editing and photography involved here are mind boggling. Cannot thank you enough.
@bobbysolo5411
@bobbysolo5411 2 года назад
I agree. HOW you can photograph and relocate and catch the same train at another vantage point is some planning and moving quickly.
@danielkennedy1524
@danielkennedy1524 Год назад
A railfans dream! Thank you!
@johnmay2786
@johnmay2786 2 года назад
What stunning locations and weather! We never get conditions like that here in the UK. Thanks for braving the weather to bring this to us all.
@loghog4392
@loghog4392 2 года назад
Welcome to sunny California!
@Mythocentric
@Mythocentric 2 года назад
Amazing to watch these guy's getting on with the job regardless. I can only reflect on our own railways here in the UK where much less severe conditions bring our system to a complete halt. Much kudos to you for your dedication in producing such an excellent film. Respect!
@marykrauthamel7559
@marykrauthamel7559 2 года назад
Much of this was created because of World War II. The route over the Sierra was important for the war effort, aqnd tunnels were guarded by soldiers to this end.
@susanaobeid6770
@susanaobeid6770 Год назад
Are you from UK?
@SedatedByLife
@SedatedByLife 2 года назад
Car drivers - "on no! A snow flake! Better drive 15mph in a 45." Truck drivers - "meh, it's a few inches." Semi truck drivers "go the speed limit at least. It's just a foot." Trains - "hold my case of beer"
@ShortArmOfGod
@ShortArmOfGod 4 месяца назад
Hate to break it to you but they're on rails.
@rr7firefly
@rr7firefly Год назад
Seeing that spreader in action is a real treat, especially for someone from Flatland. Mountains in the winter are visual wonderlands. I rode Amtrak one winter between Los Angeles and Seattle. When we were in the mountains in Oregon there was so much snow on the ground. Snow everywhere. I remember how sound outside was muffled. We were moving through the landscape at reduced speed as well, compounding the sense of being suspended in time and space.
@7ideaproductions
@7ideaproductions Год назад
Those of us who live in or near the mountains often take them for granted. Thanks for your comment!
@rr7firefly
@rr7firefly Год назад
@@7ideaproductions It's a very different world from the one most of us know. And I noticed the lack of visually offensive graffiti on railroad cars. In urban areas that scrawl gives everything a hopeless appearance. Misguided youths vandalizing property.
@railwayjade
@railwayjade Год назад
I admire your dedication! Great video! Greetings from South Africa
@angelpari1511
@angelpari1511 Год назад
Wwaaaaaaoooooo so amazing snowfall video *
@naqashhaider3469
@naqashhaider3469 Год назад
I started watching this as I was in a hot mid eastern desert but then this became an obsession.
@russellsteele9675
@russellsteele9675 Год назад
Awesome video. I love trains. Thank you.
@transylvanianite3391
@transylvanianite3391 2 года назад
Bring more beautiful snow , thanks to Gods work
@J3scribe
@J3scribe 2 года назад
Awesome video! Meanwhile on parallel I-80, traffic has come to a complete and hopeless standstill.
@nancysmith2295
@nancysmith2295 2 года назад
The street plows seem to move much slower. Many drivers don't prepare for the Transition from dry or wet surfaces to snow by chaining up much sooner. Might want to carry your next meal with you. We got stuck with a flat with axle issues. We had just gone shopping. We fortunately had our dinner aboard...sushi and strawberries as we waited four hours for a tow truck. That meal is now a good memory from a difficult long wait in the heat!
@J3scribe
@J3scribe 2 года назад
@@nancysmith2295 Nice story!
@sherrysaunders3758
@sherrysaunders3758 Год назад
I’m 78 female I grew up loving trains half of my family worked for railroad in West Virginia I love all any trains. Let’s use them more.
@buddyboy66
@buddyboy66 2 года назад
This is SO BEAUTIFUL! Thank you for filming this.
@jamesweidman7462
@jamesweidman7462 2 года назад
Excellent video. I’m not fond of the winter but I would love to see the action up there. That would be a great vacation week to watch trains in and out
@UlliStein
@UlliStein 2 года назад
Yes but taking that route onboard the California Zephyr in September was also great
@michlo3393
@michlo3393 2 года назад
There are only a handful of places ON EARTH that get as much or more snow as the Sierras and Cascade mountains.
@charlietrece7958
@charlietrece7958 2 года назад
The Artic and the Antarctic .
@Homedepotdicast
@Homedepotdicast Год назад
Amazing footage
@dougkubash8673
@dougkubash8673 2 года назад
The camera crew is definately dedicated! Really enjoyed the video!
@7ideaproductions
@7ideaproductions 2 года назад
Thanks! Still thawing out.
@Cassie4486
@Cassie4486 2 года назад
With that amount of snow, its a shame it can't hit Lake Mead & clear that lake of the drought.
@JohnnysTrainVideos
@JohnnysTrainVideos 2 года назад
Great video.... lots of snow scenes...
@davemcmahon8140
@davemcmahon8140 2 года назад
Thats a well earned paycheck 👏
@danburch9989
@danburch9989 2 года назад
31:24 3rd engine #74 was one of the units involved in the Joplin, Montana derailment in Sept 2021.
@willrobbinson1
@willrobbinson1 2 года назад
AMASSING what happening to the lines open , truly amassing
@worldtravelrafhat7886
@worldtravelrafhat7886 2 года назад
Such a lovely snowy day!
@benth162
@benth162 2 года назад
In the mid fifties trains would get stuck in the heavy winter snows. One time I remember they had send out rescue teams. We used to frequent a Cabin on I-40 before it became I-80. Sometimes we walked up the hill behind the cabin at about 35 degree angle, and when we reached the top we could look down on those tracks which were 1/2 way down a 50 degree slope. The cabin was only one to two mile north-east of Immigrant Gap before the grocery and gas station were moved to the opposite side of I-80. I-80 took out the cabin and anything else that was on the north side of I-40. Our Cabin was the last one on the left side of the road. we actually got our pictures in the Sacramento Bee because it snowed almost five fee over night and we had to shovel our car out of the drifts, that was when the photographers were driving up the mountain to see just how bad it had gotten. Ah yes, those were the days when our ski boots had to be oiled because they were made out of leather unlike those today which are made out plastic.
@Jobratedman
@Jobratedman Год назад
you mean US 40, before I-80, right?
@benth162
@benth162 Год назад
@@Jobratedman Yes exactly. Thank You.
@mec2512
@mec2512 2 года назад
I really miss the Southern Pacific, but UP has done a great job restoring traffic levels along this route
@sherrysaunders3758
@sherrysaunders3758 Год назад
What a beautiful sight!!!!!🙏🙏🙏🙏 please be careful employees.
@gregsmith1719
@gregsmith1719 2 года назад
Love the telephoto shots!
@davidlaroche4537
@davidlaroche4537 2 года назад
Amazing train video, given wintry conditions!
@garycecil9561
@garycecil9561 2 года назад
Great video of harsh conditions on Donnor Pass!!!
@johnrobertfox7775
@johnrobertfox7775 Год назад
EXCELLENT VIDEO ! SP LIVES
@scootosan
@scootosan Год назад
Spectacular video. To those that participated in this production, well done.
@7ideaproductions
@7ideaproductions Год назад
Thank you!
@rajmaity
@rajmaity Год назад
I love everything about trains...it's horn , engine, engineering and everything
@StormySkyRailProductions
@StormySkyRailProductions 2 года назад
WOW!, Spectacular video and footage of then railroad action during the winter season plus the nice scenery out that way.
@robertschmidt6383
@robertschmidt6383 2 года назад
That was one awesome video. Love snow plowing scenes such as these. Keep that freight moving.
@johnbarney7431
@johnbarney7431 Год назад
The bull dozer operations occurring along the pass are intense. There is a lot of snow removal occurring on that line. It really piles up on some corners and there is a lot of effort going into moving it around. The amtrack over the summit is incredible
@cliffcampbell8827
@cliffcampbell8827 2 года назад
Donner pass (and that particular stretch of the Sierra Nevada mountain range) sees some of the most snowfall in the world, not just the United States.
@DanMeyer80
@DanMeyer80 2 года назад
I live in northeast Ohio and we get a fair share of snow, but not the amount that Donner Pass gets.
@williamh.jarvis6795
@williamh.jarvis6795 Год назад
@@DanMeyer80 Would a good reason for much of your snowfall be because of the Great Lakes nearby? I have once heard of this from a former friend. I live somewhere within the six NE states, in the middle, growing up somewhere to my north.
@robertbeck97850
@robertbeck97850 2 года назад
Great video, you really did a super job on the narration. If You didn’t say it was shot in 2010 I would have thought early 2021 or even late 2021 with that huge storm that dumped over 100 inches up in the Truckee area. Keep your videos coming. You really don’t see a lot of that spreader videos. There is a spreader in the Lagrande Oregon yard (UP) in the blue mountains of eastern oregon but it does not get out too often. Robert in Lagrande Oregon
@7ideaproductions
@7ideaproductions 2 года назад
Thanks Robert!
@barbararoberto1258
@barbararoberto1258 2 года назад
Enjoyed the video very educational its amazing how much snow that Donner pass gets per year keep up the good work and send more videos
@nancysmith2295
@nancysmith2295 2 года назад
Lots of snow even under drought conditions! We need more snow. It'll drive us nuts, but when we see lakes and rivers rise we'll be ecstatic!!!
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