SRAM Force AXS v Shimano Ultegra Di2 R8100 | Groupset Head To Head 

To be honest, I am just glad that we live in a world where the 2 most popular groupset companies have very good products to offer. 😁

IMO any time shimano dual sided power meters are mentioned it should be pointed out that they don’t work 😂. I lean shimano and you can just get power meter pedals but with sram it’s nice that their power meter option is actually good.

I am very impressed by how these videos always very diplomatically find a tie between ratings of groupsets. On the things that would matter to serious cyclists who are focused on performance, weight, shift speed and brake performance, Shimano is the clear winner. I actually much prefer SRAM, but I'm not a very serious cyclist. Being able to easily remove the batteries for charging and not getting confused on which button does what are the deciding factors for me.

Whilst having chainrings you can't replace on the quarq is a bit ridiculous, the powermeter actually works. Unlike the shimano offering which is basiacally junk. Go look at the DCrainmaker or Shane Miller videos about it. You shouldn't be giving Shimano the win on the powermeter as it isn't fit for purpose.... typical mainstream cycling media.

The new Ultegra has been flawless. Love it 👌🏼

Great presentation. Well done! Not watched a cycling weekly video for a while and you’ve really upped your game. Way better than the formulaic bike radar, roadcc and others. 👍🏻

Unsurprisingly, the video ends with a tie. While choosing between the 2, there are a few other considerations left that can help you choose one over the other. - Shimano power meters are average at best and the Quarq power meter is a much better product. This can easily be solved by choosing an aftermarket power meter for the Shimano (either crank or pedal based, and the options are plenty). - Shimano uses mineral oil for the brakes, which is nicer to maintain than the DOT used in SRAM brakes. - The ease of installation of SRAM if you are building a bike further strengthens the practicality win. Although I love SRAM mechanical groupsets, I would go with the Ultegra in this case as I think it is a better product overall. I would however use a 3rd party power meter.

One clear advantage of Di2 is the ability to program the 3rd buttons--top of the hoods--to control your Garmin or Wahoo computer. Sram doesn't offer this option yet.

tx for nice comparison. What you didn’t include in the ‘charging’ comparison was: a) the need for Shimano to be charged ~1,8x more often (@30km/h average; SRAM upto 60h vs. Shimano upto 1000km), b) who doesn’t have a wall-outlet close to their bike-storage? So charging ‘on’ the bike for Ultegra is for most not really an issue even though more often required and c) SRAM battery system is more flexible being able to easily swop out a dead batteries mid-ride. Yet that flexibility might make soiling the charging pins with road-grime while doing so somewhat vulnerable. On the other hand (1) the cable-less design of Force vs. Ultegra with tiny delicate ‘wiredless’ cabling from central battery to both derailleurs looks more vulnerable then the all-wireless SRAM. On the other hand (2) Ultegra ‘wiredless’ wiring between both derailleurs and battery could potentially support faster and more robust (synchronized) shifting, then all-wireless SRAM (especially with a lot of radio-interference around other wireless bikes in a race a/o in a busy city?

Everyone always talks about shimano needing to take your bike to a power source, I use a portable power bank to charge my Di2 with no problem.

One thing I like about the Shimano way of shifting is the very quick succession in which you can shift the FD and RD (Manual shifting mode). I press the left shifter once, and the right shifter almost simultaneously. I don't know how SRAM can do that with one press to shift the RD and another press (both buttons) to shift the FD. In this sense, I find Shimano's shifting method much faster than SRAM.

The best presenter on any of the bike channels, and a great review.

I think this is a pretty fair assessment of the strengths and weaknesses of the two groupsets, though I would agree with others that the Shimano power meter is not so good. But that can be worked around, and the Shimano brakes are next level. SRAM power meter is great, but integrated with the chainrings (but how often do most of us actually replace our chainrings?), the shifting is intuitive and it is really easy to install and maintain (but how often do you do that as well?). I think it really is a tie - each has it's advantages. I have SRAM Force on my bike (prior gen 12 speed), but that's because I have Force mechanical on all my other bikes. But I've ridden the new Shimano and I rode Shimano for decades before I switched to SRAM about 10 years ago and I've always really liked their stuff.

Loved the old di2 on my tt bike because I had buttons to shift the gears. However for road I’ve always preferred sram both on cable and electronic shifting mainly because of the way you change the gears. Having now tested the new di2ultegra on the BMC team machine the shifting is good the breaks are amazing however the shifting feels numb and I still hate how the shifters feel on shimano so I will be sticking to sram.

The powermeter-part, unless you're buying the left-only variant, is in the chainrings. Quite expensive to replace or stock different sizes.

Nice video. Question though on the power meter front. I have a Giant TCR and the Ultegra Di2 group set with power meters are branded Giant Power Pro. Are these different to the Shimano power meters, or the same? I personally don't have any issue with them (except possibly left/right balance), and I don't have any other reference point, but keen to know if there's a difference and why the comments are unanimous that Shimano power meters aren't particularly good.

The greatest groupset ever was/is 11 speed SRAM Red Etap FD/RD with Shimano Dura-Ace cassette/chain. Other than that every SRAM groupset I've ever owned ends up getting converted to a Shimano groupset and I wonder why I didn't just start with Shimano.

I own both ultegra/di2 12speed and the the new Sram force etap. I honestly think the shimano crank is cleaner and more stealth looking. the new sram emblems look like augly stickers.. Some folks love traditional shifting compared to Srams shifting. At the end of the day It's all about preference.i think Shimano caters more to racers while Sram caters more to the average cyclist..no one wins..just ride and enjoy.

I have the previous version of Force. Chronic chain dropping. I understand SRAM update the FD and Chainrings to improve the groupset. The FD cage is narrower and the chainrings are stiffer. I am asking SRAM for updated components. I hope I get some help with this.

I believe that the SRAM system is far superior. Living with SRAM is much easier. Being able to take the rear mech off for cleaning makes life so much easier. Wireless blips on the inside of the hoods has been a game changer for me. Bleeding SRAM breaks, once you understand their system, is much easier and less messy than the Shimano Cup system. The simplicity of the two paddle system over the 4 buttons on the Shimano system is far superior. The braking feel and performance from SRAM is really good. After living with both SRAM and Shimano systems SRAM is a no brainer. The only two things that I could say would shift someone toward Shimano is if you really like the feel of the breaks and the fact that you have to buy a new power meter if you replace the chainrings. Otherwise its SRAM all the way.

Shimano must give huge discount to bike manufacturers to get the bikes actually cheaper, when the groupset alone is so much more expensive. But yeah, it's crazy that the SRAM cassettes are like twice the price of Ultegra ones. I think the chain is cheaper, though and that's the one you replace most often.

In where I live, the cost of Ultegra di2 is quite significantly less expensive than SRAM Force, easier to find replacement (the RD is about the same price as the Rival). Not to mention the aftersales. So it’s a slamdunk here for Shimano.

Whoa whoa whoa!! You didn’t mention the Shimano power meter doesn’t even work properly. Great video, but that’s a huge huge miss!

Pricing should reflect that typically Ultegra does not have the Power Meter while SRAM is coming with them. You can get Force without a power meter for about 400 less, so that brings the cost more inline with each other. As mentioned by others, Shimano PM's are not accurate and it should have been mentioned. I've had both di2 and AXS, and find both to be fantastic systems and you can't really go wrong either way. I know people getting 12-15K miles out of their Red rings, and most people are not riding 12-15K a year, so these rings will last a fairly long time for the avg rider. Based on my annual avg, they would last 3 to 4 years. I have 2 bikes running Force AXS and alternate between them, so they should last far longer than that, but I have the original setup, so I can just replace the ring that needs it, but I would not hesitate to run the new cranks. SRAM does offer a 10% trade-in for the PM's, so there is that. I have been a long time Shimano user and have bikes with their gear, but I still like the ability to pop my batteries off and keep indoors out of the heat and cold. I can't store my bikes inside, so they are relegated to the garage and the heat in the summer is just a killer on the battery efficiency long term. Anyone that lives in the south knows you get about 3 years out of a car battery due to the heat. SRAM allows me to easily remove, charge, and store inside in a much cooler environment until I am ready to go for a ride.

I would instinctively choose Shimano, and they would be my go-to if I was going to upgrade to electronic shifting, but I really think you need to downgrade them in terms of practicality on account of their withdrawal of functionality with Hammerhead/Sram. Yes, there's a workaround available but who knows for how long and - in terms of long-term usage, who's to say that they won't fall out with other manufacturers in future? Additionally, the Shimano powermeter is notoriously terrible and doesn't seem to have been improved with this latest version. So much so a number of pros seem to be running 11 speed cranks with their 12 speed DA setups, so they can have a power meter that actually works.

Why did SRAM go away from the spider based power meter? You can swap rings, crank length, 1X vs 2X and just keep the power meter. I've owned both electronic groups and after horrible faults with the Shimano batteries, I'll take SRAM every day + being able to bring a spare battery for that "just in case" is a plus. And if you are headed out for a ride and notice your battery is low, just swap out for a fresh one and good to go.

I do have one question, about the Shimano Brakes? In the MTB ecosystem the brake levers have a small for lack of a better word bump to overcome before the pads make contact which is noticeable but only on brakes with servo wave tech. is this also a thing with the road brakes?

2 bikes with RED and 2 bike with Force; ditched all Di2 groupsets; only bike with Shimano now is 105 mechanical

Aesthetics are subjective, but I prefer the look of Ultegra. The derailleurs look less bulky without the massive battery blocks and the less blingy colour scheme looks more premium to me.

Having met many wireless connectivity issues in this world, how reliable are wireless communication systems like that SRAM uses?

I had a feeling this was going to come down to a tie. Such a cop out. Come on, guys! Make someone upset!

I choose the one that has a functional power meter

I'm just glad this video wasn't riddled with "umm yeah"

Based on my extensive experience of purchasing things, Japanese products usually put durability & QC near the top, at the expense of slight dullness. Just like my old XTR & XT groupsets, they will likely to survive WWIII, and that’s something you don’t write on the brochures

Does the shimano weight include the battery?

The prices you always quote are list price.I built up a TCR Advanced SL last week and the new Shimano Ultegra was only £1700

Did not mention there are serious performance issues with the new Shimano power meters which were supposed to solve all these problems.

Shimano never gets old 🤘🏻

I've been riding for nearly 13 years and I don't think I've ever cupped shifter hoods.

is durability a thing anymore?

Nice video, but ^^ You compare different bike with 2 different groupset. If you wand to compare the price of groupset it's only on the same bike and for mine (Bianchi Oltre Pro) they have the two options and it's the same price ;-)

too many things that simply do not matter. I am not a shimano fanboy, but the shifting at the levers on SRAM is better? Really? One can set up a "one lever usage", so that the Shimano changes the front ring when needed, avoids cross chaining but SRAM is better? Charging, I can use a portable battery when charging so no power point is needed and this means on a trip away from power if the group set battery goes low, it is easy to power back up or maybe just hook it up in the garage. So can we do this with both systems? And what about the cost of replacement batteries and how long do they last? Do they have a limp home mode or a warning mode? What about the Shimano delamination, does SRAM have that? Reliability seems important to me, but I Only keep bikes on the road for 10 years then I upgrade the components en mass. So which one is easiest to upgrade and what are component interchangeability like? Not much of a comparison.

Sorry but the Shimano Powermeter is very inaccurate. Just check out the reviews of DC Rainmaker and GP Lama. So the Shimano PM cant be used. The Sram Quarq powermeter in contrast is just excellent. Concerning this the point has to go to Sram!

Unfortunately, Shimano's pwoermeter doesn't quite work correctly.

ULTEGRA Ftw!

I charge my ultegra using a power brick... So is quite practical. The only think I hate is that Shimano is using a custom connector instead of usb-c :( Evan you can charge on an emergency using your phone... again why Shimano didn't went with standard usb-c!!

I like the Sram Force on my Cervelo C3

after 2 years on my road bike & mtb, sram axs no wory.

For me with a slight right hand disability the ability to do all gear changes just with the left handgives ultegra the clear win. Beencriding it for over a year and live it

You can just take a portable USB battery to your bike with the Shimano, it’s not really rocket science.

I stopped using Shimano years ago. There crank set selection leaves much to be desired. The lack of compact and sun compact cranks is sad.

Of all the comparison, just take the Super record 11speed Mechanical....the SR shifting from big to small cog are way faster, the used one are cheap now.

It be great if durability and availability are also considered…

Ultegra for ever!! Particularly since Dura Ace is sooo expensive.

Shimano is the clear winner here. The button setup everyone mentions as a negative, I totally disagree with. I've tried both, I like Shimano better. The gearing comparison is irrelevant. Both do the job fine. The battery charging comparison is irrelevant. Shimano is incredibly easy to charge. The dealbreaker here for BOTH group sets is the power meter. The Shimano power meter has been proven to be trash. The Quarq power meter is the best bang for the buck in my opinion, but this ridiculous setup with the power meter attached to the chainring? What idiot thought that was a good idea? Just another reason to build the group set yourself: Ultegra shifters, cassette and derailleurs, and a Quarq crank with a DFour or DZero power meter with Ultegra chainrings. That's the setup for me.

Can’t believe you gave it to Shimano for the power meter. It’s well known that it’s accuracy is terrible compared to most leading power meters. Agree cost of replacement an issue but the Shimano meter is junk. Btw, I own a Sram and a D12 group set so foot in both camps :-)

Ultegra. Disposing the quark powermeter once the chainrings wear out was absolutely a deal breaker.

i love my sram red groupset just because its so intuitive. in the app i selected sychronized shifting so i just have to tap left or right. i mean its just fun doing that, like in a video game. i guess shimano does the same, but i never had a shimano di2. just the normal ultegra. compared to that, electronic shifting is just way more fun. the breaking is fine on sram but yes i noticed that my ultegra bike does break even better. but since im not a pro, that makes no difference to me.

Aren't powermeters optional? Why are weight and prices stated for PMs included? For the sake of fairness - and bearing in mind not everyone is interested in them - PMs should be separated.

Shimano have been very generous with its OEM pricing - so you’ll see bikes with Ultegra being less than Force.

when weight is important (500g).. its not even close... should compare force to 105di2 , there we have an equal weight.. in a world where weight 300-500g is everything, its what separates ultegra from dura-ace

The pricing issue must be a Europe things. I don't think there is a single example I could find where Force AXS is more expensive on a bike than Ultegra Di2 in America.

I'm surprised it wasn't touched on in the video but SRAM has a better installation process as it has less cable running.

Thing with the PM is: most importantly the thing is accurate, and the Shimano one just isn't. It's all over the place (watch reviews from DC Rainmaker and GPlama). How can you recommend a PM that just isn't accurate? For both SRAM and Ultegra I'd get the set without PM and get a pair of Assioma's. Cheaper option, accurate and easy to switch to another bike.

You shouldn’t give a point to ultegra on the Power meter it does sucks that we have to trow away the PM but at least it works the shimano PM is trash and we all know it that’s why pros don’t use it! 😊

which one has an aluminium spindle contacting a steel bearing? which one has a steel spindle contacting a steel bearing? If you haven't read up on galvanic corrosion, the answer is aluminum + steel is a bad idea.

For me SRAM, the better gear ratios, ease of battery charging and I would use power meter pedals. With regards to gear shifting speed, you do far more rear gear changes than front ones. So, I believe SRAM should have won that one.

Chain efficiency: Shimano. Idk what SRAM does (or doesn't do) to their chains but they are measurably slower than Shimano chains.

I'd choose Force all day....ergonomics and a bit more braking power, just does not justify nor closes the price gap for me. Sram to me has the best value and it looks better too!

ultegra is the new dura ace.. dura ace is now super record

My 10 year old mechanical Sram red rim brake groupset is more than a kilo lighter. And much cheaper too.

There's no way Ultegra can get a win for power meter. for Sram you have to throw away the powermeter when you get a new chainring, with shimano you have to throw away the powermeter when you get the bike

Both brands are sponsors. Not allowed to pick a favorite!

You can pretty much replicate Sram's gear shifting in Ultegra. Front button on right shifter - front mech to big ring Back button on right shifter - go down the cassette Do the opposite for the left shifter Just as intuitive

Think the force groupset looks a lot nicer than the shimano ultegra, also you can fit a sram groupset in 15 minutes with two hex keys. Shimano is a pain to fit.

I’ll keep my past gen Force. I have 2 sets. Works great. How about that LTwoo eRX though?!!!

Charging on the bike is extremely easy with a power bank. I prefer SRAM, but in fairness that should be a draw ;)

I wouldn't touch SRAM with a 10 ft pole. Got burned with Red eTap, won't get burned again.

Surprise Surprise.. it was a tie. Lol

why Sram has a point for charging?? you have to disconnect 2 batteries ! and bring the charger. with Shimano you just need to connect one cable.... sounds more like a draw

I paid 1800 EUR for the Ultegra without powermeter. It's a fair price

You didn't mention that the ultegra power meter is shite

Don't forget the Sram wireless blips can't be recharged and are therefore disposable.

10:04 You can reprogram all buttons on Shimano, and switch the shifting mode to resemble SRAM's. 👎

Someone give us back our silver groupsets - black is so trash !!

Shimano. End of the story.

This video tanks its credibility when it mentions that the Shimano Ultegra crank power meter is better value. The base job of a power meter is to measure power output, and the Shimano power meters are notorious for doing that incorrectly.

Spindle Diameter: Shimano wins. Sram going to 30 mm was just ignorant. The extra size isn't needed, but now, they've forced themselves into needing smaller bottom bracket bearings... which means less performance and less durability. Dumb.

105 with some Ultegra parts: best value and weight drop. With Di2 I think 105 and Ultegra will fuse soon like the Cues thing, makes no sense the money versus weight\materials between the two.

how the hell can sram take a tie in shifting speed?i dont need a stopwatch for this its night and day especially on the front mech. and how the fuck can sram take the win in simplicity .... the clicking of both buttons is utterly stupid since you never know in which front ring you are. if you are not sure you are in the small ring and you press them you just go in the big ring while with shimano nothing happens if you are already where you want to be.

I like the look of the Sram chainset but I suggest it is a dirt trap and would be harder to clean

"Shimano requires you to take the whole bike to a power source..." - am i the only one who doesn't use a power bank for charging?!

to me, shimano wins in every aspects except power meter. Shimano's power meters are trash in terms of accuracy and weight.

So if the weight can vary then it could be heavier😅

Shimano hate the sram shifting and I use stages power meter on one bike and rotor on my cross bike

sram is just insanely good, must get sram one

"Head to Head" but afraid to have an actual winner...shit like this drives me crazy. I own both Di2 and SRAM AXS, there's one clear winner in my experience.

Sram 💯

author love sram

Too expensive to replace sram chainring compare tu shimano because sram chainring does not come with spider arm