I remember watching this for the first time in the 90s when I was young, I was so excited "WOAH THIS IS SOOO COOOOL!!" and DS9 still has some of the best space battles in sci-fi.
@@user-xw5qm6qp2y Yes B5 and there epic battles! I watched it as a kid in the 90s and I was just blew away from the action and the story. One of the best Episodes of B5 (for me) is "Severed Dreams".
They actually spent months on this, they minimized the effects in other episodes to have the time and budget to produce the battle sequences for the dominion war. That’s why between major battles, they had a wedding, a casino heist, and found time to play a baseball game in the middle of the largest war in Starfleet history. The producers were pretty genius, and the show was so character driven they could get away with it.
Always felt the Sitak and the Majestic exemplified the bravery and duty of Starfleet. Two old workhouses outclassed by everything the enemy has, yet still giving their all to ensure the mission was completed. And those three flanking Birds of Prey. The best of the Klingons.
@@deaddropsd1972 There Maranda's, cover the holes with duct tape, slap on replicated engines and send them back out with a -B at the end of the registry.
"They outnumber us two to one..." "There's an old saying: Fortune favours the protagonists. Well. I guess they're about to find out." "But at what cost! Sir, most of our ships don't even have a name!" "We'll make up their names and ship classes when we list the casualties for the article at Memory Alpha, Ensign. We're going in."
Not exactly. For some reason everyone decided to fight without shields. In that respect, even capital ships have the same, possibly worse odds of survival than the peregrine or runabout.
@@willt3223 No those are piloted ships. They adopted the same strategy as in ww2 that swarms of small craft could penetrate a large ships defenses and take it out with minimal cost of lives and material. Each starship is a massive expenditure in men and materials but each fighter is just a fraction of a fraction of the same cost.
imagine if instead of a galaxy starship, they had the number of attack wings as crew. so 1 galaxy = 1500 crew? that's 1500 attack wings that can take the place of 1 galaxy ship. i rather have that.
The Charge of the Light Brigade Alfred, Lord Tennyson 1809 -1892 Half a league, half a league, Half a league onward, All in the valley of Death Rode the six hundred. "Forward, the Light Brigade! Charge for the guns!" he said: Into the valley of Death Rode the six hundred. "Forward, the Light Brigade!" Was there a man dismay’d? Not tho’ the soldier knew Some one had blunder’d: Theirs not to make reply, Theirs not to reason why, Theirs but to do and die: Into the valley of Death Rode the six hundred. Cannon to right of them, Cannon to left of them, Cannon in front of them Volley’d and thunder’d; Storm’d at with shot and shell, Boldly they rode and well, Into the jaws of Death, Into the mouth of Hell Rode the six hundred. Flash’d all their sabres bare, Flash’d as they turn’d in air Sabring the gunners there, Charging an army, while All the world wonder’d: Plunged in the battery-smoke Right thro’ the line they broke; Cossack and Russian Reel’d from the sabre-stroke Shatter’d and sunder’d. Then they rode back, but not Not the six hundred. Cannon to right of them, Cannon to left of them, Cannon behind them Volley’d and thunder’d; Storm’d at with shot and shell, While horse and hero fell, They that had fought so well Came thro’ the jaws of Death, Back from the mouth of Hell, All that was left of them, Left of six hundred. When can their glory fade? O the wild charge they made! All the world wonder’d. Honor the charge they made! Honor the Light Brigade, Noble six hundred!
This is something I liked about SS9 for sure. Being a boat nerd, I loved that they continued the TNG tradition of having The Mighty Hood pop up at times, but made it more badass. In TNG she was out in thr sticks, doing imoirtant offscreen work for the most part, and turned up around Enterprised periodically. In DS9 she became a hero ship. Not because she was crewed by the protagonists, but because she did nighty things. Unlike her unhappy predecessor she sailed on favourable winds, at the very spearpoint of the Federation war effort.
Like any battle on screen, you are usually not treated to the pre-battle manoeuvres where the fleets jostle for position, attempting to outflank each other and gain advantage. I could well imagine that even in the infinite void of space a large fleet could bring another to battle, particularly when it’s obvious where the other fleet is trying to get to.
@@rrwholloway Right. Unless you have clearly superior speed and momentum, trying to go around a large defensive force just means you'll get hit in the flanks or rear at a decidedly inconvenient time, especially in space where there's really no terrain to hinder either side. In this case, even if the Starfleet force somehow got around the Dominion one, they'd ultimately be trapped between their pursuers and the upgraded DS9 itself, which we've established as pretty damned capable of holding off an entire fleet for some time.
3:00 the Defiant surrounded by the Jem'Hadar, yet still shooting and weaving her way through the enemy is one of the most iconic shots of the entire series, in my opinion.
Back when you would get 26 episodes a year and not have to wait 3 years between seasons. We were spoilt getting 20 eps of Star Trek Prodigy drop in one day last week.
I would have loved these battles a lot more if the ships had any shields to speak of. However, my understanding was due to budget reasons, it was either more ships or shields.
@@tails0420ify That's fair. More ships really painted the danger of each large scale battle. When I first saw these fights, my only question was: Why doesn't anyone have their shields up? Never could get over this.
A lot better ! Haven ' t seen it but Discovery seem wrong in so many ways with a Star fleet ship with golden hull and totally different klingons ! I do realise it supposed to be in the far future but the design deviate so much it just does not fit into the Star trek universe . It could have been just called Discovery in like a totally separate series / universe . Sorry i over ranting 🙄 My bad . DS9 is a 90 ' s favorite and quite impressive modelwork . And Star trek TNG was also quite impressive for a TV show even if the morals could be preachy and no - one in the future listens to rock music apparently
BOP's can go into battle with a skeleton crew of 6 not including combat solders can go up to 30. the Jem'Hadar ship requires a flight crew of 12 for operational capacity not including combat soldiers and can go up to 50. according to memory alfa.
Have to say that the battle sequence of operation return was expectedly done with initially attempt at tactical brilliant and ingenuity from both sides, before it devolved into a free for all and no holds barred melee fight. Before the klingons arrival enabled the allies to turn the dominions flank and allow them to win the day as they rolled up the enemy line like a carpet.
This is one of the rare cases where early CGI models actually look pretty good even by today's standards. They did a great job on this show, more so than they did on Voyager.
Why is it no one can do solid space battles anymore... We had DS9 BSG and Star Wars in 90s and 00s. Then as tech got better the space battles got worse... Serenity, Rogue 1 and The expanse were the last good ones I remember.
The only thing that makes even plausible is that the Dominion is using the same ship designs they had when the war started. Meanwhile, the Federation has been cranking out new ships with all their top shelf tech built in.
This probably shouldn't have resulted in losing a ship, except knowing Klingons they probably routed all rear shield power to the weapons allowing the friendly fire from the rear to take out the whole ship with one hit.
@@g.k.1669 Yeah, sadly it is true. I had high hopes for discovery but it turned into a poorly written love fest for a certain demographic and the show turned to shit as a function of that. poorly written, poorly acted, directed embarrassment.
I remember the week lead up for this or however long it was and it being such an amazing thing. Never before had we seen flea battles like this. Well yes I know that they had to cut out shields in order to make the fights actually go out of proper pace, still this was one of the most amazing things at the time. Sacrifice of angels indeed
"The second best thing about space travel is that the distances involved make war very difficult, usually impractical, and almost always unnecessary. This is probably a loss for most people, since war is our races most popular diversion, one which gives purpose and color to dull and stupid lives. But it is a great boon to the intelligent man who fights only when he must--never for sport." - Robert Heinlein
Afaik the peregrin only had low power phasers and micro photon torps. It's just a shuttle sized fighter after all but en mass their combined firepower can take down starships.
If they were using full sized photons they'd only be able to carry four before running out of ammo. That actually makes perfect sense given the type of historical naval ship they're an analogue for, but, yknow, scifi.
The leaders in the Alpha quadrant all bickered and argued that they needed to come together to fight this war from the Dominion who came from the Gamma quadrant, to conquer. Some refused which made it 1:2 in favor of the Dominion
I think all this would have made more sense if they had promoted Sisko to Rear Admiral in the last season. Having a Captain command a 600 ship fleet is strange...
A captain is a flag officer, and Sisko was under the wider command of Vice Admiral Ross, who he became adjutant to immediately after losing DS9. The fleet is technically under Ross, who leads the fleet when they attack Cardassia. Starfleet rarely has Admirals of any level command ships on their own, and Sisko is the commanding officer of DS9 and the Defiant. When discussing the attack plans Sisko and Ross get news that the minefield is coming down, which forced them to assemble whatever they could.
@@SantomPh But he is not just commanding the defiant, the defiant is acting as command ship for the whole fleet here and Ross is nowhere to be seen... Every naval fleet on earth I'd carrying at least a commodore, and that is upwards of 4 ships or so...
@@randomrazr not neccesarrily. Here is one thing. The way computers inzersctvin Star Trek dont allow for thrm not to be AI, so where is a massive amount of AI in all Systems. Usually a ship big enough like the enterprise can pinpoint on a Single subsystem and shoot it out without destroying the ship. Nö way can any gunner do this from a desctop like console... Still they seem to do it. Solution: they only Tell us half the Story as screen time dont allow for unnessesary Details.... Did in the whole TNG and DS9 ever someone use a toilet? - you See.... Where are things untold, but that dont make them not existent. If where are AI powered aiming Systems, they rely hesvily on exact sensor readings. Sensor jamming is more easy for small ship as for big, because AI can extrapolate where the Impulse engine sits if only the End of the starbord warpnacelle gives a exact reding for A Split second. Oops. This means ewar for big sbips makes no sense, its blow against blow between These, but those fighters are another thing, small as they are they can without a Problem jam sensor readings in a bubble and rolling and dangling this bubble around, keeping thrmsrlf inside, means you can extrapolate nothing. In the Scene you See at one point a phaserbesm going out missing a fighter, being not even close and than sweeping around. Still missing, but such maneuver makes absolute no sense if you have accurate readings to even pinpoint subsystems if you want. Solution: as I said where are things untold and as the fighter makes no sense with accurate sensor readings and AI aiming and that sweeping phaserbeam also makes nö sense, the one solution that can explained both things is mostly plausible and that is that Ewar exist and works best for small ships. These guys font need shields, shields would never hold against a capital ship Main Phaser. Their only defense is speed and ewar. "best defense, not be where" some old sense once said. Thats what they do, they Set their ewar to full energy, their engine to full speed and automatic evasion maneuver and than concentrate on Overall direct ion and weapon use. If it gdtscrozgh, fly faster.
The klingons should have attacked from behind. Would have force the Dominion to turn half the fleet to face it. While still having star fleet on the other side.
If you are that close. Shields will be worned out extremely fast. Play Start Trek Online, or any ship battle with shield. 1 vs 1 it takes time to knock ti down. But if there's a line of ships, and you have a line of ships. You got phasers, cannons and torpedoes all over the place. If a group of ships target just your ship. You're done. It's a battle otf who has the most ships, who can dish out the most volleys, and finally who can take the most damage. If you're a small ship next to a Jem Hadar Battle Cruister, At full shield, one beam would knockout your shield and blow you up. Those ships have planetary size phasers/polaron emitters.
It never made sense to me why a fleet like that would be commanded by a relatively junior captain on one ship instead of an admiral with a full staff on a command ship.
One of the greatest sci-fi fleet battles ever made. Up there with RotJ’s Battle of Endor. It has narrative coherence, the tactical manoeuvres are consistent with the strategic purpose of getting beyond the Dominion fleet to DS9. The individual ships are given little stories, moments to shine amid the carnage. Instead of today’s nonsense from Star Wars or modern trek where the director seems to think that filling the screen with ships is the way to go, when instead it is silly, impossible to follow and just, terrible as a way to depict a battle.
I just love how in 3:37 the Galaxy Wing have finished its sweep under Cardassian-Dominion line, but then at 4:07 one of the Galaxies decided one sweep is not enough and go back to kicking some more ass!
Sisko: "fortune favors the bold" Me: "fortune favors the bald" Sisko: "i sad, fortune favors the bold!" Me: "That´s what she said" ps.: DS9 is one of the best Star Trek shows ever. Even to this day, over 20 years later, i´m stil not 100% sure, was this friendly fire? and what actually destroyed the 2nd Bird of Prey? 4:07
They are numerus, can be crewed by a vary small complement, have tons of parts available at the junkyard, modular allowing them to shoot modern photon torpedo's giving them a powerful punch, and agile the only ships when under impulse power capable of keeping up with the defiant class which was in short supply. And lastly not made out of explodium like the obrith class.
1:50 - From Alfred Lord Tennyson's "Charge of the Light Brigade", written during the Crimean War when the British cavalry rushed the Russian positions at Sevastopol.
One of the stupidest design features is having the “red alert” lights continuously flash. You know Star Fleet I think the crew understands they are going into battle after a few minutes, so you can turn the flashing lights off
This is normal to use red light in Navel combat operations as it is harder light to see in the distance at night making it harder to spot your ship. although having it blink is probably a TV thing. on a side note blue is starting to replace red light to make it easier to read computer displays. Also It is a secondary communication device if you lose communication with other parts of the ship. Cretan sections of a ship are sealed off during combat and you do not open those secured bulkhead doors under those conditions without orders. Having condition status red yellow etc conveys what rules to follow when you are unable to receive direct orders.
1,254 ships?, seriously DS( was a little overboard on that and the Charge Of The Light Brigade in Space was a terrible price to pay for that Breakthrough until the Klingons are there .
Really dislike how Star Trek has always portrayed space battles. It's still cool though. I mean, just so much silliness here. They have warp, why do they have to "break through their lines" haha. Just warp out RIGHT at DS9.
I often wonder if the writers intended for this whole battle to reveal the absolute depth of Dukat's self-crippling ego. He baits in the Starfleet force with the intent to destroy it, but he doesn't have to win this battle at all. He only has to buy time for the minefield to come down, allow Dominion reinforcements through the wormhole, and guarantee victory. Instead, he's so intent on swinging his dick in front of Weyoun and the Founder that he employs a more aggressive strategy, allowing Sisko - the one being in all existence with enough clout to make the Prophets listen to him - to reach the wormhole and barter with his life to make the reinforcements disappear. Dukat was right: victory was in his grasp. But it wasn't the kind he wanted, so he threw it away. Am I reading too much into this, or is this an example of writing with fantastic subtext? None of the dialogue calls attention to it, so I honestly don't know.
Something I thought was wierd after the finally of picard was in all scenes in the or ds9 the galaxy was a huge lumbering ship in its menuverability. Yet data gets ahold of it and its like a freaking defiant in how it can mve and shoot. Im sure other helmsmen woupd have some sort of skill to do near the same if let off their orders leash.
I never liked the fleet battles in DS9. Everything is packed in so close together like they are fighter craft, and Sisko giving orders in a fleet makes no sense, he is a captain, not a flag officer.
I love DS9. Best star trek show still. However the people writing these battle scenes had no idea of combat. If all the starfleet ships would have kept going straight more would have gotten through. You can see several going wrong way. Also why was sisko the only captain to realize the ships were to close?
At the time I would watch DS9 it was a ok show for me I liked Star Trek the next generation and Star Trek voyager were my favorites DS9 had to much of this bajoran religion story line and with the whole rest of the many stories lines the writers were over loading on at the time.
@@stratfordbaby "The phrase is believed to have originated from Terence, a Roman playwright. One of the proverbial phrases in Act 1 of his play Phormio (161 BC) is fortes fortuna adiuvat, or “fortune favors the strong.” The poet Virgil was the first to use the exact phrase audentes Fortuna iuvat (“fortune favors the bold”)."
Why is it that all these space SIFI shows do not use real tactics? Just go watch some Eve online and figure it out. no stand-off weapons, no electronic warfare, no capitals or carriers,
