It's incredible and considering this is the very infancy of CGI, and this scene would look even better if the original reel is ever properly remastered into HD.
This is so great, because it is what Star Trek is at heart: a morality play. It asks the hard questions, and it is the only piece of sci fi I like that casts the human race in a positive light in the future!
equenoxe86 yeah I know mate, I saw the post date :) The first, i dunno, 15 seconds seemed to imply that they were alone and stranded. I thought we may get some character development, the rest of the trailer completely shot that down.
+PageofLegend That is the very reason so many debates around the treatment of the Prime Directive take place. Star Trek is a relatively believable imagining of the future for our species, and as such it's necessary, and very interesting, to consider how our species' idea of morality will guide our actions in such a future, and how we might interact with different species with very different ideas of morality.
That really is the best warp scene I've seen from any of the TV shows. Ashame they didn't have more of that blur motion, really adds to the idea of how "fast" warp is.
@@NickMichalak And Doctor Who, BSG, Dollhouse, Firefly & Warehouse 13. Maybe decent character actor who is available to play parts shot in Canada? I'm not going to try that hard to find out.
Wait this was 2000? I wouldve thought it was late 80's/early 90's. Toy story was already out at this point. I guess high production cost tv shows are a recent thing
This scene is probably one of the best action sequences in Star Trek. The pacing is great. The timing lines up with exterior shots. The direction here was above average. And the music is so good underneath it all and bombastic when it makes sense. And the clever tactic to flee from the borg without using conventional battle matching was so nice to watch. Love love love it.
Even the part when Janeway starts to say maximum warp and there's a jolt and she looks like she was in a car that braked suddenly or something, it was very believable.
"The needs of the many outweighs the needs of the few. " I really effing wish people would stop misinterpreting that line. Spock chose to sacrifice *himself* ; Spock did NOT force someone else to sacrifice themselves.
Yep, Spock sacrificed himself to save the Enterprise against Khan. He was brought back because simply put "The needs of the one outweigh the needs of the many" as Kirk put it.
Me too...my favorite show!!!! This discovery new show is crap.. have you watch it? Phaser firing sound like farts and you can't really see who fires at who...cheap crap
+GeorgeGordonNCA Actually the Prime Directive wasn't violated. You can bypass the Prime Directive if there was a friend in need. Since Icheb was sort of a friend, the captain did nothing wrong.
+Jade2016 Incorrect. You can violate the Prime Directive in service of the Omega Protocol or to save the Federation. For a friend, no. That's not a viable reason.
+GeorgeGordonNCA Is it a violation? They brought the boy to his home world for Icheb's benefit. Then they were lied to. If they had know Icheb would be used as Borg bait, they wouldn't have delivered him. So is being lied to and tricked and then remedying that really breaking the Prime Directive?
The Voyager crew was family. Once someone becomes part of that family they will ride into the jaws of death for them. They didn’t leave anyone behind. Loyal to the end.
Even if it meant violating the Prime Directive or spitting in the face of Spock's iconic "needs of the many" line. Even so, their methods stuck with Janeway, to the point her future self pulled off the same trick a hell of a lot more successfully.
@@vegetta00 Works for me, Star Trek Online in my opinion is the real Prime Universe. Sure, Romulus still get destroyed but it still feels like Star Trek to me.
That's the thing with Tuvok, I think Tuvok was pissed even though as a vulcan, he doesn't show emotions, BUT if it was Spock, Spock would have gone apeshit on them like he did with Valeris in Undiscovered Country.
@@GenGamesUniverse But what choice did they have?? The future of their entire world was at stake. If we had to sacrifice one person to save all of Earth would we do it??
The civilisation of cowards, and of those who sacrifice their young under false premises, does not deserve to exist. The moral of this story is that this civilisation is already dead, albeit they think ‘they are alive’.
@@zvonimirtosic6171 Well Spock would disagree with you. "The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few" Sacrificing one for the benefit of possible billions is not even close to being brutal. Humans die EVERY DAY by the dozens and nobody blinks an eye so spare me your righteousness. And they're one of the VERY FEW species that have a very effective method of completely wiping out one of the most dangerous threats in the known universe completely and utterly.
@@picallo1 All of you "kill one to save a zillion" advocates need to STOP twisting Spock's words. He made a choice to sacrifice himself; he did *NOT* push for someone else to be killed in his place.
Janeway may not have done the "right" or "moral" thing here; and that annoys a lot of you. Here we are nearly 20 years after this episode was made discussing the right and wrong of the issues presented to us. In this 4 minute clip, this is Star Trek - makes you think, makes you talk and makes you disagree with one another.
It was a great show- very underrated. Also Captains making tough decisions is far more interesting than always making obvious decisions. Janeway herself has plenty of flaws.
Still.... as entertaining and thought-provoking as it was... I'm literally blown away that we (a Starfleet crew) just handed an entire civilization, to the Borg. I can't see Picard or Sisko doing the same, in such a situation. Makes more sense to me, to help or reinforce the populations ability to defend itself. Create a society where individuals would be willing to sacrifice on behalf of the population, and literally buy civilization enough time to defend itself. Voyager could have helped by sharing technology with them. Technology that they could in-turn perfect over time, and one-day create a truly sustainable defense... so that sacrifices would no longer be necessary.
+x Jokerz The Prime Directive is not just a set of rules; it is a philosophy ... and a very correct one. History has proven again and again that whenever mankind interferes with a less developed civilization, no matter how well intentioned that interference may be, the results are invariably disastrous. JLP
Voyager was one of my favourite series, but what made it less than TNG for me was the fear they removed from the Borg. The Borg was the perfect nemesis; utterly terrifying, indestructible, emotionless and bell bent on total domination. Just to escape them took every ounce of intelligence, determination and technology at the crews' disposal. Then Voyager started destroying them almost at will. The Borg from TNG were horrifying.
Well, that and Tom Paris, and the fact that Janeway's will bent the laws of physics. Harry Kim and the Doctor were the only redeeming characters aboard Voyager.
I actually think the thing that made voyager so hard to defeat (and also why the borg queen was so intrigued by Janeway) was that Captain Janeway sometimes has the demeanor of a borg queen. Cold, calculating, ruthless, and opportunistic
@@yevgenydodzin9849 Right, because Sisko wasn't all that and more. What made Voyager unique was plot armour thicker than the writers' lob on for 7of9 🤣
danwat1234 thr nacelle angles were to protect the fabric of space. Remember that episode in next generation where warp drive was damaging space . So the amgled nacelles was the first solution. Then later on they supposedly figured out to fix the damage of warp drive. Blah blah lol
This show was brilliant for its time. And it was the first show that had CGI effects which I thought was pretty cool. I loved how headstrong Janeway was. This conversation was very interesting I thought. And you’ve gotta love Tom Paris’ driving skills for that fast warp in the end!!!
And yet Janeway returns from the future to infect the queen using the same knowledge she gained from them. To get Voyager home. I call that a fare trade.
eXcommunicate1979 to be fair plenty of captains have done the same thing and if it was much of a problem the time police would have stepped in, Picard has done it, Sisko has done it, hel l about the only captain not to do it was Archer hilariously enough.
After Icheb died on the Star Trek Picard, I will never look at the Borg episodes of Voyager the same way again. :-( I love the classic David Bell variants on this episode scene though ;-)
Janeway: Prevents sacrificing a humanoid life to deliver a deadly pathogen to the Borg. Also Janeway: Sacrifices own life to deliver a deadly pathogen to the Borg.
Sacrifices the whole crew for the attempt to prevent the sacrifice (get him on board first, has not even a freaking idea how him and hers get away of the Borg)
What's ironic is that the pathogen future Janeway used was from icheb. He had one scene in the finale at the beginning and we never saw him after that yet he provided the means. I'm sure there was a scene cut or never shot where he comes back into play for their plan. Janeway shows up in the shuttle bay with the hypo spray but we never saw where she got it, for all we know there was a scene where perhaps Icheb and seven were talking about her future and Janeway calls him or both of them to sickbay but we don't know what for.
I've always liked this scene. Good CGI for the time and I appreciated Janeway's empathy for Icheb's parents even though she refused to go along with their plan
You are supposed to feel sorry or bad for them. But honestly if their virus is strong enough to knock out a Borg vessel. Then why not use all their transports and infect their adults to have them be assimilated, send them on multiple vectors away from their planet but NEAR the conduit, and in intervals and get assimilated. I will admit their strategy if it can be called that is to use the maturation chambers to infect more ships.. but honestly it feels unlikely that one vessel can start a pandemic given how quick the borg are in sterilizing threats or compromised cubes. Honestly taking out several cubes in a coordinated volley and then hunkering down when more cubes come to see what’s going on. Wait a year or two to not have that conduit be flagged and not used and try again feels like a better strategy to put a dent in the borg. Anyway, you are supposed to feel bad for them but Janeway went with Children are not implements of war full stop I feel bad for you but we brought you back the kid which we see as family and you yeet him back to Borg space to be painfully assimilated and his identity buried by the weight of the collective. Yea I feel sorry but the kid is family.
you are among those who apply the law without understanding the spirit of the law. Janeway defends individuality and the person who is reduced to be an object, to reach the point of being used to achieve an end. so the bad spirit of "any means are good" Janeway teaches them that their way is not the right one. thereby she interrupting their act. an act that is unhealthy in itself especially when there is another method more respectful of their life and that of their child. this civilization, in its methods, did not imagine that one of their child could be rescued, as we see in this show, and that the child would be brought back to them. the fact that he uses this child out of pure opportunism proves their dishonesty. they saw well that the crew of the voyager, were good people, who brought back to them their child, for care and kindness. no to be used & sacrify. they should not have used their own child, but take advantage of this chance to keep up with them. they are bad parents. what is the point of saving a civilization if people have bad behavior towards their own child? the crew of the voyager, took care of these children. the crew took their time and made efforts to bring them back to their families. one of these children is then sacrificed. how could parents imagine that their cold intention was going to be allowed ? by strangers who were already involved in the case, because the responsibility they have about these children !! the prime directive can not be applied blindly. it's a code of conduct but not a dictatorship.
@987643543 39256645 This isn't anywhere near as bad as "Flesh and Blood" where she destroys the defenses of Hirogen vessels, effectively sentencing their crews to death by holograms, that originated from Voyager. She effectively butchered a bunch of sentient beings because "MUH MALFUNCTIONING HOLOGRAMS HAVE FEELS TOO....and they're more important than real lives".
@987643543 39256645 yep and she basically did the same in the pilot which is literally why they were flung so far across the galaxy in the first place. quite inconvenient when federation warp technology was such a joke at the time. most people don't know that most of tng takes place in a smallass little area in the galaxy. something like 100-200 l.y. x 100-200 l.y. this region contains klingon/romulan/cardassian/ferangi/etc. empires and tons of uncharted space. even warp 9 is slow af even warp 9.9 would take almost two days to get you from sol to the nearest star system.
@@JAnx01 and she was right to help the holograms and twist the knife in the Hirogen, after trying to help them and everybody else by giving them the holodeck tech.
@@JFrazer4303 Now she wasn't. Those holograms were designed for target practice. They were devious, lethal and in the end, they ended up shut down anyway. Janeway should be trialed for butchering dozens of Hirogen for no reason.
@@Sasha-sj4xe My guess is that by darkening the room, the lighting from the consoles becomes even more visible, making it easier to see the controls you are operating.
@@kfireven Yes, however they do "transfer power" quite often. It's a very common occurrence. Even seeing at least two battles involving the ships tells you that.
This was one of the most AWESOME & HAIR-RAISING moments of the entire series! And there were many. I also absolutely love the intense theme music used in it’s scoring!
They could have asked someone with a terminal illness or very old to volunteer to be genetically altered and volunteer to be on that ship to infect the Borg. They used a child without consent. The children were on Voyager long enough to be part of their community so I'm not sure Janeway rescuing him was a violation of prime directive. They did destroy the sphere which should lead the Borg to think twice about traveling to this sector.
Naw, destroying a sphere is a sure sign there might be a civilization that has cool tech for the Borg to assimilate. That whole area is going to be searched looking for what did it
I don't have a problem with her decision either. Janeway did what she could for her crew at the time and did the best she could in the DQ. What I wished they could have done to maybe improve the show was maybe have Voyager trade with allies weekly for supplies or something like that? But this show was fantastic and a great Star Trek show and, in my book, my favorite series besides TOS. And to hear that people are STILL arguing over 20 years later about the rights and wrongs of Voyager-speaks volumes in my book!
Star Trek Voyager has more dominant approach to traveling the universe, Janeway is a captain who seems less uptight then Picard of next generation. She is not afraid to break protocols and be offesnive if need be, i felt Next Generation which was great however lacked some aggression manly due to the picard character. Voyager feels more authentic.
TNG was happening mostly within the "safe and familiar" Alpha quadrant, with Starfleet support rarely very far away. Janeway is stranded 70 000 lightyears away from home, with no support available whatsoever. She can't afford to play by the book. I'm sure Picard would do the same in her situation.
WilfredIvanhoe somehow i feel that would not be the case. Janeway character was cast to a lady who needed to prove herself to command the newest vessel at the time, she could not be shown as weak.
+xc5647321 xc5647321 what episode was that? Equinox? I think that should have been more in line with what happened to Voyager. Them hitting the reset button for the next week got dull.
This is probably the single best battle Voyager had with the borg in the whole series..the borg were not made to look like weaklings here which is something Voyager writers did to them time and time again....Voyager's weapons had no impact on the sphere and the only reason they got away was because of good planning and excellent timing...and more than a little luck. Kudo's to the writers of this episode, it's a shame Voyager didn't have more moments like this one....it could have been a great series.
scooter1977 Erm, I don't think it really showed Borg as weaklings. Voyager fought Borg Cubes a few time, but with exception of End game, the Cube is always malfunctioning/Voyager has assistance. Again, with exception of End game, the only Borg vessel that Voyager destroyed In an one on one engagement is the Borg probe, which is a comparable vessel to voyager to start up.
Er, no. And I'd like to challenge this fashionable (and misguided) narrative. The Borg being all-powerful, unassailable, monolithic, impervious to any challenges made them dull and one-dimensional. Ain'tcha ever heard of David and Goliath? Everyone loves the small fry up against the big fish. And Janeway continuously snapping at their heels, f*8king them over every which way she can - to her eventual triumph - was one of the enduring pleasures of his series. You need to get that...
Icheb was a member of Voyager's crew and it wasn't right what Icheb's parents did to him. They left him to be assimilated again. If Voyager hadn't interfered then they would have taken him. The Prime Directive was broken but it wasn't Voyager that brought the borg sphere there. It was the species itself. However I dont' think the sphere would bother the planet. It's too primitive, not to mention the Borg don't hold grudges so they wouldn't go after the planet out of spite.
+KasaiWolf07 That might not be true. I'm no expert on Star Trek, but at the very least, there's a repeatable mission in Star Trek Online that involves you and any nearby ships (regardless of faction) working together to stop a Borg fleet from reaching and assimilating an underdeveloped planet. Think about it, what better target for the Borg to assimilate, than an underdeveloped planet that doesn't even have ships or weapons that would be effective at fighting them off? An underdeveloped planet would be a treasure trove of new drones for the Borg.
The prime directive refuses contact with under developed species because they gave a lot of technology to the Klingons and that turned into war for years. Just like when we give weapons to people in the middle east. The values are not shared so they don't use the technology/weapons as was intended. it just enables them to spread their violence. If were in the same place those people were in and fighting to survive the borg, we might have done the same thing just to save us and would not like having someone else telling us that we can't protect ourselves and doom us to the borg.
The Borg don't care about a species' defenses, they'd attack the most heavily defended of planets unless they outright knew they couldn't win. In fact, defenses that might hold them off would be a bigger lure. And you're right, once their population grew the Borg would attack again. The whole point in the ep was that the reason the Borg had been holding off was that their last few attacks had left them decimated, so they would wait until the population/technology grew back again
"Think about it, what better target for the Borg to assimilate, than an underdeveloped planet..." You'd think so, but the Borg themselves do not actually think this way. Usually. The Borg typically prefer to assimilate only peoples they think will contribute to the collective or the advancement of the collective. Seven explicitly mentions the Kazon as an example of a race that does not have to fear the Borg because the Borg find them utterly unworthy of assimilation. The only reason I personally can think of why the Borg might break this rule is to recoup major losses, for example, to recover from the ludicrous loss of drones suffered in the war with 8472. That's only speculation, though. All we know for sure is under normal circumstances, the Borg completely ignore underdeveloped races.
To all of you saying Janeway violated the prime directive here and gave into her emotions to save a "child", how do you feel about Picard violating the Prime Directive to rescue Wesley from the Edo in the episode "Justice"? Both Wesley and Icheb serve in a capacity that wouldn't hurt the ship if they were lost. Picard felt that the laws of the Edo were unjust, and while he might have struggled the the decision, he violated the Prime Directive to save a non-essential member of the crew.
+Thom Janning The Edo weren't facing possible assimilation, genocide, geological calamity, or other extinction threat. Hatred of Wesley Crusher aside (as well as Roddenberry's idea of making him a "wunderkind"), I'd respectfully submit that Picard's violation of the Prime Directive in "Justice" didn't have nearly as disastrous potential consequences than this video's example did.
+MysticDestroyer13 Except that in "Justice" the Edo were being manipulated by their "God" who explained as much to the Enterprise that interference would throw the Edo into chaos, results of which no one could calculate with certainty. But to the original point, it became not a violation because of the aforementioned manipulation. Because another force acted on the people, it became okay for the crew to take a stand.
+Thom Janning What people keep forgetting is that despite the fact that we're talking about humans a few centuries in the future, we're still talking about humans, and as long as we retain emotions as part of our brain chemistry, these types of emotionally charged decisions are pretty much unavoidable. The Prime Directive serves as a relatively strict guideline on how members of Starfleet should interact with relatively primitive species. Since, as I mentioned, Starfleet is primarily comprised of humans, (the same humans as us, as the writing reflects humans as we relate to them, rather than an imagining of humans who have evolved intellectually from us as they more likely will), most situations where the Prime Directive is to be considered will involve a human. So emotions will always play a potential role in the decisions these Starfleet captains make. Furthermore, I would be surprised if well known and experienced Starfleet captains such as Picard and Janeway weren't given a fair amount of leeway to use their own discretion.
Picard was just as wrong as Janeway. It was his professional carelessness to put a non crew member not even trained in the basic protocols in a First Contact situation. Wesley should never have been on the planet in the first place.
@@fmlazar Imagine being a crewmember who spent years in training and dedicated themselves on prior tours of duties to get an assignment on the Enterprise, finally getting a chance to be on an away mission only told, "nope, you're not going. some untrained kid the captain picked is taking your place"
Janeway saved a member of her crew. A crew that ex-drones included, by this point, were part of her family. Janeway is not in the wrong Icheb's despicable parents are for turning their innocent son into a bioweapon.
Societies have sent their children to fight since the beginning. This is no different. They fought with the only weapon at their disposal. The alternative was the loss of their society. Janeway was wrong and she sucked
@@ksbs2036 Infecting Icheb with a virus and sending him to get assimilated didn't work cos the Borg would cut the infected cube off from the collective, just like they did the first time (pisses me off that Janeway doesn't tell them this). One cube out of 1000s that they have. Essentially an irrelevance for the Borg. The Brunali are sending him to die for nothing. Janeway was right, and Icheb's parents sucked.
One of my favorite Voyager scenes. Although, they could've performed the Picard maneuver and got him out of there before the sphere emerged. That would've been cool too
Well, they didn't know that and couldn't predict it; the only far-flung future he was ever glimpsed in, during all of Voyager's temporal misadventures, he was alive and well, alongside adult Naomi.
She is my second-favorite spaceship captain ever and I haven't seen this whole episode or anything but I'm really not sure if I fully support all the details of her spaceship-captaining over the course of these four minutes, I really don't know.
Borg: We are the Borg. You will be.....Wait. NCC 74656, U.S.S Voyager? We're about to get our butts kicked, right? Janeway: Yep Borg: Stupid writers. They never would have done this to us on The Next Generation.
They did this to them on Next Gen all the time. The Borg are chumps and always have been. If Picard hadn't been a shitty officer they would have never gotten anywhere against starfleet.
@@Shapes_Quality_Control That isn't what the Borg are supposed to be representative of at all. The Borg represent social media. Also, you don't appear to know hos communism works.
Mickey E Social media.... in the 80’s? Are you sure about that? Oh I’m sure. If I had a nickel for every time someone claimed I don’t know what communism is and then failed to demonstrate “real” communism.
I think Janeway is a close second, Picard was a badass when it came to the Borg. He used his time as Locutus to know what they were planning since essentially he could still hear the collective no matter what.
Janeway is one of my favourite Captains because she was pragmatic. She was Starfleet, and tried her best to uphold the ideals, but she also realised the Voyager was out there on its own and trying to survive. Sometimes that meant doing the unpopular thing. Same with Seven of Nine. It wasn’t protocol to essentially adopt her and make her a member of the crew, but Janeway knew how valuable she could be to them.
@Kiss my axe SPOILER WARNING----------Seven of Nine is introduced in the series on a rescue mission to save a former Borg drone being tortured brutally (specifically getting his eye torn out). When she gets to him it's revealed it's Icheb and he dies in her arms. :, (
@Kiss my axe That scene in particular was pretty disturbing, however the series as a whole was well done (even though it does stray away from traditional Trek storytelling). Definitely can't wait for the second season!
Do you think the writers for Picard went "You know what Trek fans will love to see. A character they've grown to love and seen develop and grow being brutally murdered for no other reason than to establish tension and stakes for a single irrelevant plot point!"
i always thought it was a metapher for the way they butchered Startrek in general.kidn of with the same mindset as you described. probably with an evil grin on ther faces