Maybe some people just genuinely don't like Star Wars. I have tried to get into Star Wars and I just can't. I watched this film and left the theatre with a meh feeling. Was it a good? For what it was yes, but I still don't get the hype of Star Wars.
TheoKabala89 That's fine. You don't have to like the movie. Just don't be one of the assholes posting one star reviews on IMDB because "JJ RUINED STAR WARS!! WAAAHH!"
I don't think they're going to do that since there isn't a source material for them to split. But, if the next ones are as good as this one, I don't know if I would mind :P
But the thing is, do they really need to split it into two parts? Look at Mockingjay and Deathly Hallows. Both part ones were slow, boring at times, and both part twos were almost to fast paced, one long action scene. Now look at Return of the Jedi. It was fucking awesome, and it was all packaged within one movie. If it was any longer, it would have drug on. It was the length it needed to be, and still was kickass.
Max Landis got a lot of shit for having the balls to point out, when the hype for The Force Awakens was at its height, that Rey IS in fact a Mary Sue. Maybe not as bad as Tauriel from the Hobbit Trilogy, but still pretty awful. She's not an interesting character and has no flaws making her incredibly boring. Luke develops into a badass Jedi over the course of three movies; learning the skills of a Jedi along the way. Whereas Rey almost instantly shows said skill, albeit unrefined, in the course of ONE MOVIE.
You could make a slight argument that Rey isn't a Mary Sue, but its impossible for Tauriel, who has all the trappings from her shoehorned importance in the story and a nature that is so irrelevantly over-skilled. Tauriel is both an entirely "original" and pointless character. Plus, Tauriel adds absolutely nothing to the story save for a painfully forced AND tragically doomed romance with a character from the story meant solely to manufacture sympathy. Mary Sue/Gary Stu characters are often too perfect and unbelievably skilled as well as given some connection with actual characters from the story (distant/long-lost relative; love interest). Then they're usually given either tragic backstories or aforementioned doomed futures meaning that either they die or watch someone they love die. My point is that Tauriel might as well have "FanFiction.Net" tattooed on her forehead. In conclusion judging by your response you clearly don't know what a Mary Sue is b/c you assumed my definition of a Mary Sue was something as nonsensical as "a character that wins fights."
But didn't Rey grow up a scavenger, picking parts from space ships, which would explain why she's good with ships? She also grew up on a desert planet with monstrous beings and all kinds of villainous scum, if that doesn't make you tough and strong I don't know what will.
+Ritchie Chavez totally agree with you. This dudes don't see the full movie, or maybe don't understand all. The movie was great and the characters had a great develop. Ray have a complicated childhood and Finn turn after see a friend died and when the first order kill all because they can. That is enough to convert a person. Are crazy the haters
+Ritchie Chavez Yes. In Max Landis' perfect Star Wars movie, every single character would have 10 minutes of exposition. God forbid the filmmakers trust viewers to infer things on their own!
She's skinny as a rail, not like Charlize Theron in mad max where you can tell she's a strong badass. Also I think making her a great pilot is too similar to Luke. Rey should have more flaws in my opinion.
her character would have had a much better arc if she: a) wasn't able to perform a jedi mind trick on the storm trooper after the 2nd time (would have showed she still has much to learn) b) didn't out-duel Ren, but either matched him evenly or just barely lost to him (again, showing that she has much to learn) there sure are other things (like her being able to fly/fix the millennium falcon with no experience or prior knowledge of it), but those are the 2 things i felt would have made for much better character development.
***** LOL.... You are the fan this movie was made for. So, essentially what you are saying is the movie neglected all of the exposition of this character's (Rey) training so that they could reveal it in Episode VIII but anyone who has seen the movie should know from watching the film EXACTLY WHAT THE NEXT FILM IS SUPPOSED TO REVEAL? That is probably the dumbest thing I've ever heard regardless of which side you argue. Rey's arc in the story was one that followed an exponential curve. She went from nothing and no one to greatest Jedi Master ever because she doesn't even need to be aware that she has the Force and can still use it better than any one, ever. Now, I would be much more inclined to believe that Rey was hidden as a child, like Luke and Leia, in order to protect the Force (an Anne Frank, if you will). I believe that she is a Skywalker and Luke's look at the end was one of fear. The look of a man who is facing his daughter after a long time as he struggles to cling to the light side but knows that he will likely succumb and, unbeknownst to her, she will one day have to defeat Luke as Luke defeated Vader. I do not believe she was trained but was given this bigger better Jedi storyline where she is the new chosen one in a Force that has evolved and is evolving to the point where possibly instant manifestation is the new bar. At least then I could buy it but the delivery sucked. Your explanation sucks either way because what you are saying is that the next movie will be as predictable as this one was and therefore I won't want to even watch anyway.
I don't claim to know what the next movie will be about, only what would at least make this movie plausible. I didn't like this movie because it was nothing more than a glitch in the matrix, deja vu. I'd already seen this movie when I watched the first six. Trust me, I really wanted this movie to be awesome but it wasn't. Oh, by the way, I actually like the prequels albeit not as much as the original trio. You know why??? Because the prequels did what the first three did, break new ground. People can argue the success of the prequels all they want (e.g. the acting, the cgi, etc.) but the truth of the matter is that the prequels added more depth to the Star Wars world than this film did and it did it when we already knew what the storyline was going to be about. This movie was nothing more than copy and paste shots, sequences, plot lines, etc. into a new film then change the names and flip the script on the twists while not really adding anything substantial to the overall saga. Oh, a side note. Just for fun, after the movie was announced I wrote a treatment (a basic outline of a story) for the film. Surprisingly, some of the things I wrote were in fact a part of the storyline in this film but, and I'm not afraid to say it, my treatment was leaps and bounds better than this film. Anyway, I'll watch the next one because JJ isn't directing it but if the next one turns out as predictable as this one, then no I won't bother with the ninth installment. Lastly, not everything was bad about the movie. Rey is a good character but should have been better developed. The first act set the scene but then it was just "take everything on faith". Poe was good but there was to little of him. Finn is a good character but his backstory is idiotic and his dialogue is pretty ridiculous at times. If they changed his backstory, then he would have been a better addition to the film. As it was, it was difficult to actually identify with his character. The look and feel of the film was pretty much Star Wars but it was hard for it not to be when they essentially copied shots straight out of the previous films. And the best parts of the film were the parts that the original cast member's were in. Period. It was not all bad but there was definitely more bad than good. But yeah, you know me... I'm just trying to talk shit to get people to look at me online because that's the most important thing in my life. Pssh.
Phantom Menace had some similarities to a NH but that makes sense because Anakin was Luke's father so the similarities were to demonstrate that. The finale with Anakin was pretty much the same, I'll give you that, but I don't see too much else. RoTJ wasn't anything similar to NH other than the death star but that made sense because the death star was being rebuilt and served as an excellent book end to the trilogy.
andromidius 1. Emotion is what gives dark side force users their strength. 2. There's no reason why he would want to take her alive 3. Even if both of those poor excuses where true, he still should have had no difficulty in killing both of them
Agree with Max about the disappointing lack of B-Wings/Y-Wings/Tie-Interceptors in the movie. Abrams needs to take a few pointers from Lucas about world-building, which is what Lucas was good at.
Yeah world building was bad in this, there was never any reference to what was going on off screen. What's up with the republic and the rest of the galaxy these days?
+Jeremy Beck Well, the lack of B/Y-wings is actualy because the resistance is alot smaller than the old rebellion, the old rebellion became the new republic, which in secret helped and funded the Resistance, but only in small takes, as they wouldnt want to be public support a new resistanc. the lack of Tie-interceptors though, cant really be explained, maybe they couldnt build that many of those in the outerrim (main location of the First order)
+Sebidee TW Yeah, they basically killed a random star system that housed the Republic capital and almost no-one mentions it afterward. I also don't even think they mentioned its name in the movie.
Totally Agree with everything Max said, if Rey had been a male the character would have been reviled, They tried hard to make a cool female hero but failed and there's nothing wrong with criticizing that , but we did have a great female hero this year which was Furiousa so we do have something to be happy about
+The RED Samurai Max is a douche. I seen plenty of movies where they go too far with a female character where they seemed to have super strength and fighting skills without reason but it wasn't the case here.
genkenobi It does unless they are using the force to enhance there strength in physical feats. Darth Vader had an edge I am sure because of enhanced mechanical strength. In the first movie he lifted that guy in the air with one hand with strength and not the force. All depends on what is happening.
This guy gives the movie a "C" then the very first complaint he has to justify is that there were not enough ship designs in it... Ill take proper character development and acting over that any day...
+Uptomyknees People are going for all of these Ad Hominem attacks instead of disputing your opinions. Calling you a "hipster" isn't a counter-argument.
+Theresa Monroe he literally even says he liked furiosa as a good female "powerful" character. Your nostalgia movie is not immune to criticisms. It's good but there are flaws.
It's just RIDICULOUS that people think that Rey's arc was too fast and too unbelievable. SPOILER ALERT: First of all, she already is an expert in melee combat, as shown on Jakku. Second, she has a force vision in which both OBI-WAN and YODA talk to her, two of the most legendary Jedi the galaxy ever saw. I'm sure they don't just appear to anyone. And she obviously has a past with the Force - She is a prodigy in the Force! That much was obvious. When Kylo is interrogating her, she turns the tables on him because she is mentally and emotionally stable. She looks into his mind and sees his fear, and uses it against him. Fear is what POWERS the dark side, and she USES IT AGAINST HIM! Genius. Regarding Kylo: he is in chaos, torn between the light and the dark. He has no focus. When he fought Rey, he had just KILLED HIS OWN FATHER. Can you imagine what that would do to him? Also, he was severely injured by both Chewie (stomach) and Finn (shoulder). And, he actually is WINNING until he says "you need a teacher - I can teach you the ways of the Force" - the word FORCE cues Rey to focus on the light side, which gives her power, and then the LIGHT SIDE kicks the DARK SIDE'S ass. They set up the Rey v. Ren battle perfectly. I really don't get why people are having such a hard time understanding all this. Actually, I do. It's Lucas' fault. In the prequels he made it seem like in order to be a Jedi you have to take classes as a child with mini light sabers and other stupid shit. HOW STUPID. In Empire, Luke only spends a few days with Yoda and all they do is levitate some shit. His real training is to FACE VADER. You learn the ways of the force by DOING and learning from your decisions. Also, the force is NOT about learning to wield a lightsaber or becoming a ninja. It's about controlling your EMOTIONS. Yoda says, "control, control, you must learn control." Kylo Ren loses all control. Rey gains it. Rey wins. It's really painfully obvious. In regards to the characters, and the force, this movie was just about perfect. Edit/Addition: I just read an article that references Rey's decision to refuse to sell BB8 for a HUGE ration of food. I mean, the girl was starving, and she chose sacrifice and loyalty to a helpless droid and his plight. She was merciful. THIS is the light side training that matters. People who don't understand this don't really understand the Force. And it makes sense that they wouldn't. They are focused on some kind of Martial Arts and Magic training. The force was never about this in the OT. "Your weapons, you will not need them." "Size matters not. Look at me. Judge me by my size, do you? And well you should not. For my ally is the Force, and a powerful ally it is. Life creates it, makes it grow. Its energy surrounds us and binds us. Luminous beings are we, not this crude matter. You must FEEL the Force around you; here, between you, me, the tree, the rock, everywhere, yes." LUKE THROWS HIS LIGHTSABER AWAY! What more can I say?
That's why everyone likes her! Because she's human. And what does liking a very well written character have to do with not seeing the original trilogy? Your argument is invalid! Try again
I never said this movie is better than the empire strikes back or anything. And yes I have seen the originals I'm even a huge enough fan that I have even seen the despecialized edition. I think it's better than return of the jedi, but that's about it. All I said she's a very interesting character and she is not boring like that one guy was saying. Also this is only the first movie and she's already a super likeable character and everyone is asking is Rey Luke's kid is she going to be a jedi knight in the next movie and so on and she's going to get even better in the next movies. If you remember in the first star wars Luke was just a wynie kid and got better in the next movie. This movie is great one of the best action movies of the year it's up there with Mad Max. All these guys are doing is nit picking. This isn't a perfect movie by any means, but then again no movie is without their flaws
THAT'S WHAT YOU'RE COMPLAINING ABOUT? Luke held r2d2 and c3po as his slaves. SLAVES! There are millions of droids it's like seeing another person walking around because there are so many of them! And she has a stick because she doesn't have a gun or anything. I would much rather have a staff than nothing at all to defend myself if something does happen
No nobody would have done that because that's stupid haha. How would she be able to do that? How would anyone be able to do that? Not everyone knows how to make droids. And if a random guy starts following her yeah she's going to say go away because she wants to be alone. BB8 was lost and thought that be best place to go was to follow her becasue she looked friendly and saved his life. Everyone else looked sketchy. Everyone with a brain would have followed her. And why would she just take him apart right when he started following her. She did have common sense that's why she didn't murder him just so she could find out who's droid he is. I don't see why she would do that in any way. She didn't live on Tatooine so there isn't any slave trade there! She's not a monster!
+Jacob Garcia There is nothing human about being handed everything on a silver platter. I think the power got to her head a little at the end of TFA when she was lording over Ren who was crippled on the ground. In the book a voice says to kill him. The ground splits before she can act on it. She is going to the darkside.
jag519 Agreed. The way he pitched the opening storm trooper scene would've worked much better than what we got. JJ should get working on the extended cut and put that scene in.
This is why I like Chris Stuckmann's reviews best, he analyses every aspect of the movie. All the questions max asked, Chris has answered a week ago. I really love that Kylo Ren is the most imperfect, realistic villain we've had (by that I'm referring to the fact that he can be beaten easily, not that his character has flaws). Yes, he gets beaten by two characters easily, but why? Because he's a CHILD with a LIGHTSABER that throws tantrums when things don't go his way. We are given that in the movie so I'm confused why people are so surprised by the fact that Kylo Ren ISNT invincible. As Chris Stuckmann had said, it's his first actual lightsaber battle. Just because he had a lightsaber doesn't automatically mean he's a master with the saber. So many points in Max's review were so out of whack and ridiculous, I get the impression that he wants the movie HIS WAY or nothing at all. Almost as if he were mad that he wasn't asked to be part of this project that turned out great.
+DanceNance93 yes! jeremy jahns aswell as stuckmann actually took 3 fucking seconds to think about the movie before bitching about stuff thats already answered in the film.
+DanceNance93 The movie sets up expectations. Why would Snoke bother with Kylo Ren if he wasn't powerful? First lightsaber battle? Uh... this is a guy who shows immense power from the beginning of the film by stopping a gun blast. Even Finn -- a sanitation engineer -- gets in saber stabs! No, glad you enjoyed the film, but it's really a mess (giant plot holes, coincidences upon coincidences, lacking characterizations, weak and confusing motivations... the list goes on and on) and IMHO not very good.
+RoastKings but, isn't it just that? training? he hasn't fought a life threatening battle against a jedi before, he relies mostly on the force and not on sword skills which rey is kinda above him on both parts, he is only better on force control and force sense. He is not a genius like luke or vader maybe that's why he's like that. he feels inferior as even stated in the movie AND rey has been fighting most of her life alone. she needs it to fight for food, parts and safety as also seen in the movie(jakku). ren mostly commands troops and fights together with them and he fights mostly villagers and such.. with backup. fin was a trained combat unit, he was trained to fight. storm troopers are like that.. i wonder.. phasma is always on him.. like she "senses" something on him.. and seemingly, she was the one who took him and trained him when he was a child.. i wonder..
+Kai Pacifica I agree. Why would Luke completely ditch every responsibility he has ever worked towards merely because he felt guilty of Kylo's creation? All while Rey and Finn make a fool out of him. I feel like fans of this movie are just casual moviegoers who don't understand the weight and history of the already established SIX other movies.
It's a shame that being honest and critical of this movie's many weaknesses is considered a betrayal by the other Star Wars fans... An untrained person being able to fight a Jedi warrior like Kylo Ren is absurd and goes completely against the folklore of the Star Wars universe... Rey is simply Disney's attempt at cashing in on the currently popular female protagonist types like in the "the Hunger Games"... The nerdboys aren't enough anymore... now Disney wants women to come join the Star Wars fanboys lol... It's CATNISS SKYWALKER and the Hunger Wars!
Kylo Ren was NOT a Jedi master, he was a teenager that used to be a student of Luke's, and only managed to kill his fellow students cause they weren't expecting it. The only thing Kylo Ren has over the rest of the first order is his rudimentary understanding of the force and a lightsaber, but is still prone to teenage outbursts and tantrums.
+Jimmy J not necessarily, the scenes on Jakku show that Rey does have some fighting skill with her staff. Granted, the two guys she beats up were bandits and not a sith, but really, Kylo Ren hasn't had to fight anyone in a lightsaber battle for years, so he would be way out of practice.
+Jimmy J it is. The battle would have made sense if kylo was winning but the more they fight the better ren gets The se concept with an anakin and dooku and Luke and vader.
I feel there's a lot of potential for these characters to be great moving forward. This film is just a starting block for them and I really hope they explore them in more depth in the films to come.
+JetSetDex that's where this movie fails tbh...its just a setup for other movies, it doesn't stand on its own. just think about this what if this movie didn't have any sequels, would you be happy when the movie finished? a good trilogy is if each individual movie stands on its own.
+maikeljay I felt that way as well. I feel if this was the last film it would have been disappointing but knowing that we're going to get more is what makes the film work for me despite the number of flaws that it has. The is film was good but it was a play-it-safe set up for its sequels, I just hope they take some risks and really bring their A game for episode 8.
+maikeljay Empire Strikes Back doesn't stand alone at all. It starts fairly slow, assuming that you're intimately familiar with New Hope, and proceeds to focus only on character development while setting up plot to be resolved at a later date so there is literally no sense of climax or resolution at the end. Still a great movie and did its job as part of an ongoing story.
+EAproductions That's a pretty terrible argument, especially because most of what Max has written in his movies was filtered out by the producers...AND MAX purposely makes cheesy movies. He doesn't take his shit as seriously as shit from people HE HIMSELF regards as artists.
***** Not really. The entire point they brought Max on was to show his criticisms. They even acted like he was a spectacle for the episode when they literally *started with* "OH HEY LOOK AT THIS GUY WHO DOESN'T LIKE IT AS MUCH AS YOU"
can we just talk about the fact that we got to see A LEGIT JEDI VISION for the first time in Star Wars history, which to me perfectly aligned past present and future and raised so many interesting questions
***** same, I bet you Rey's gonna keep having visions like this in the next one(hopefully some dark ones too) which is gonna open up some interesting doors for her character development in the future like imagine if we get to see her and Kylo Ren connecting through a vision or a dream of some sort O_o
This was not the first Jedi vision at all...clone wars had Anakin see himself as Vader, Anakin had one of his mom and Padme even if we didn't see it, etc.
Am I the only one around here that don't like Max Landis? I respect him but sometimes he seems to like shitting on movies to piss off people. He had a lot of valid points but come on.
+ashhelful not all of them. some need translators like c3po. but i think it's a separate language. even luke didn't understand him in the first movie.. i mean the fourth..
liam sheil I meant, without training. He obviously has spent time with BB8 and learned to understand him. Also, I was wrong. Luke needed his ship to translate.
I just saw the movie tonight and was so underwhelmed. And I absolutely loved the Star Wars movies...all the new characters were so absolutely 2 dimensional that it was sick. I actually really hate Rey and I thought she was an embarrassment as someone that was supposed to be a "strong female lead". Ugh. Only Finn had a backstory that I was even interested in possibly learning later. To know he was taken as a child and force conditioned to be a trooper was interesting.
+Kimberly So you didn't think that Rey basically raising herself on Jakku with no family and nothing and making her own way in the world was interesting? I would be curious as to some actual reasons you hated these characters so much rather than they were "two dimensional" and embarrassments.
+Jonathan Martin So Rey is one dimensional. She raised herself alone. She do everything alone without a help of anyone. She's Mary Sue. And I have a problem with it because it makes her an unrealistic character. I can't relate to. Sorry.
+wertor666 Movie's got good ideas and I appreciate that. But ideas and lack of structure in plot prove that it's very difficult to tell A COMPELLING STORY nowadays. The Force Awakens isn't a compelling story. It's very simmilar (oh my god!) to prequels when we can see many clues witch DIDN't HAPPEN in the movie.
+wertor666 Raising yourself = one-dimensional? She didn't get off Jakku without the help of Finn; she didn't get away from Jakku without the help of Han and Chewie (and maybe Finn again); she didn't get away from Kylo until he unleashed her Force (which is his bad); she didn't destroy or get off Star Killer without the help of Han, Chewie, Poe, and Finn; she didn't find Luke without the help of R2 and BB-8; what did she do alone without the help of anyone? She raised herself, that's about it. How does that make her a Mary Sue? You are just regurgitating what the popular internet chatter is right now but no one can give me definitive reasons why she is more of a Mary Sue than Luke or Anakin.
My major problem with Ep. 7 in relation to the prequels specifically is that there is little to no world building... What is happening with the Senate? The Republic? Where is the Resistance's Fleet? ( All we saw were a dozen X-Wings..) Why Jakku and not just Tatooine? Starkiller base... really? Po and the M-Castle lady were purely plot devices that were only available when needed.. Everyone loves to bash the politics of the prequels but I feel like an extra 20-30 minutes of well done exposition would have helped a hardcore Star Wars fan realize what is actually going on in the universe right now. The two or three exposition DUMPS are not adequate enough to carry the weight of the already rich world we already know. Where's Coruscant? The only named planet mentioned was Jakku.. I did enjoy this movie. It was entertaining in terms of action and dialogue but I do feel the characters are a bit weightless along with the world they are now in. You can't rely on plot devices and convenient explanations to build the new world these characters are going to live in. I will be truly disappointed if we find out in Episode 8 that Luke really was just staring off into the distance the whole time on these islands... he better be training some jedis or SOMETHING? Luke would have never just given up if he really did feel responsible for Kylo's creation. He would have taken responsibility or amassed another plan to deal with him. If Finn and Rey can kick Kylo's ass momentarily then Luke's character must have some major issues now. Overall there was hardly any context and world building involved, and that's an aspect of the prequels that I loved. The movie really feels like just an ode to the originals, a fan movie played by a half decent cover band.
Guys its the first movie of a trilogy. We can' t see the big picture now. We must wait so the dislike of a lot of people when they speak about luke and the other stuff I thought oh man its the first movie and it wasn't perfect but all Star wars movies we loved weren't perfect. And i think all creators of this movie wich was getting hyped over the top, did an amazing job.
+ayra wynd If you're expecting J.J. to deliver on hinted-at plot elements, you've never seen Lost. "We can't see the big picture now" ... That's because there isn't a big picture.
+ayra wynd Don't get me wrong the cast, and character interaction saved this movie for me. It was very entertaining and it WAS Star Wars. But, I feel like they forgot as an audience and fans of the universe we have sat through 6 movies already... the universe is already established and it seems like they just completely forgot about that and were convinced they needed to start a new slate, new story, and to reason with it all they got lost in translation which caused a lot of plot holes. I loved everything besides the plot and storyline. It's like we took a huge step backwards from Ep 6. Thanks for the comment! Love the banter here ;D
+Gary Dorgan Very true Gary. I feel like fans (most who probably aren't expanded universe fans) forget that what is important about Star Wars is the UNIVERSE, not the mindless action sequences and snarky dialogue that Han, Chewy, BB-8, and sometimes Finn carried on their backs. It's about the wonder and mystery of the world, and when they did try and explain things they just half assed it and let Po, Snoke, or Han dump exposition on our faces. This was borderline a mindless space adventure to me which IS entertaining, but Star Wars is more than that. Star Wars is a space opera.
+Denis Lipatnikov hahahahaha good comparison Denis. Expectations were incredibly high, but as they should be. I would rather had them shoot for the stars like the prequels attempted rather than creating a fan film of A New Hope and Empire Strikes Back. I feel like the writers need to take deep insight into Expanded Universe material and seek guidance because these plot holes and seemingly useless plot devices will bite them in the ass later on.
Rey being a Mary Sue is ridiculous. She spent years fending for her self on Jakku. Gained huge technological aptitude from scavenging all those downed ships in the desert. She's established as already being a very good fighter. The fight with Kylo Ren is what everyone's mad about. REMEMBER the dude got shot with the goddamn bowcaster before the fight. He was emotionally compromised. I love me a complicated villain. And a little EU Easter egg. Rey used battle meditations, as a hardcore fan I loved seeing that. Applause for you JJ. And her force knowledge, I believe we'll get answers to that in the next movies. This movie was amazing
+Parker Maki I dont buy it. He had that same injury when he froze Rey's body and flung her which knocked her out and he easily took out Fin. So that throws out the injury/emotionally compromised argument. Lets not forget that he isn't some ordinary fighter. He's the son of Leia, grandson of Darth Vader, and personally trainer by Luke himself. Yet, he gets beaten by a novice? Come on, even a fan has to scratch their head at that one. It's clear that the movie forced Rey to win even at the cost of not making much sense. I'm glad you liked the movie but it wasn't for me any many others. We could've done without the Rocky 4 ending.
+jbulletc Finn ain't force sensitive. He was never very good with the lightsaber. REMEMBER, Ren's not done training either. A force push is a force push. It's always been a device to move the plot along.
Parker Maki I don't think your comment negates anything I said. There isn't any good justification for why a novice like Rey defeats an expert in the force who's been trained by Luke.
I really hate the "Ren lost because his emotions are conflicted" argument. The Dark Side literally gains power from their emotions, so wouldn't the mix between anger, guilt, pain, fear, and other such emotions make him way stronger than he otherwise would be. I don't care if he was phoning the whole fight in, he still should've won, not just from a narrative tension perspective, but in the context of the situation.
Kylo Ren lost due to a combination of factors, not just because his conflict. To start with, he wasn't trying to kill Rey. Snoke ordered him to capture and bring the girl to him. If he had tried to kill her, I bet she would've died there, or at the very least sustained severe injury like Finn did. Instead he had to dial it down a couple notches so as not to kill her (IMO underestimating her a bit, in his arrogance), while trying to subdue her and not let himself succumb to his injuries at the same time. That coupled with the fact that he was weakened by the act of killing his father (this is a fact because the film script described this) made it a tough mission, so no wonder she beat him. Anyone who's ever played an RPG knows that a quest to capture and/or escort is way tougher than a quest to kill something. And although you're right about the correlation between the Dark side and emotions, you're actually wrong about the conflict. A Sith still needs focus to gain power, specifically focus on only one negative emotion (or a few related ones). Conflict actually weakens them as it brings them back to the cusp between light and dark. This is why Luke was able to bring Vader back to the Light side, and why Kylo Ren has to struggle against the Light side so much (he loves and hates his father at the same time).
Aes Sedai So, if he wasn't about to kill her, why wouldn't he just chop one of her arms off? I mean, Sith seem to do that all the time. I'd argue the mix of negative emotions he'd be feeling are related enough to still work in his favor. And anyway, there's proof that the "inner conflict" didn't impede his skill too much, since he was just kicking the shit out of Finn 5 seconds previously. Combine that with the fact that a novice swordsman like Rei would be completely incapable of defeating an experienced fighter like Ren, and you've got one terrible scene. And that's not even going into this from a narrative stakes perspective. Now that we know she can beat him, what threat could he possibly pose in the future?
Sam Geuvenen Why didn't he chop off her arm? Maybe because he underestimated her a bit (like I said) and couldn't. And no, guilt and remorse aren't Dark side emotions, they conflict with everything else he's feeling. Plus he just lost his greatest source of rage-- his father. Also, the reason Finn's ass was kicked is because Finn doesn't really know how to use a weapon other than blasters, he was just winging it out of desperation to protect Rey. Rey, however, has mastered the basics of staff combat while surviving on Jakku, and she applied that technique (slightly clumsily) to the lightsaber duel. She wasn't fantastic but it was enough to fend off a toned-down attack from Kylo (keep in mind, he wasn't trying to kill her). BTW, Kylo Ren isn't a full Sith. He's still in training, not a master. You can't assume he's an experienced lightsaber duelist when all you've seen him do is subdue his opponents using Force grip. At this point, he seems more an Inquisitor class (primarily Force user, eg. Darth Sidious) than a Warrior class (primarily lightsaber user, eg. Darth Maul). So combine that with everything else, and no wonder he lost.
Aes Sedai Few things. 1. Staff training does absolutely nothing to help in a sword fight (learned that the hard way). 2. If Ren specializes in the force, why not just forcibly dislocate her arms and legs? If she's stronger at the force than him from the beginning, the narrative has no tension. Plus I can say he's an experienced lightsaber duelist because he wiped out every other trainee that Luke had, which would take considerable lightsaber skills.
Sam Geuvenen 1. I didn't say you can competently wield a sword if you're a staff fighter. But I did say Rey did it _'clumsily'_ and it's enough to fend off a *toned down* attack by Kylo. 2. Have you ever seen limb dislocation done using the Force ever? No. Because it's probably easier said than done, even on a non-Force user. 3. Again, you can't assume. Sure, he wiped out Luke's trainees, but no one knows that he did it with a lightsaber and you can't assume he did. Even if he did use a lightsaber, most likely he caught them unaware. Like a traitor stabbing someone in the back, and you don't need to be a master knife duelist to do that.
I like that Rey can do all the things for some reason and I am sure that it will get explained in the other movies Chris Stuckmann put it the right way - these questions make us want to watch the next movie... the movies that explained everything to death and had closure in every movie were the prequels and they were horribly boring And for that reason Rey does not qualify as a Mary Sue character because the things she can do will be explained in the near future... please stop giving Max Landis a platform for his nonsense
700Penguin The trilogy, yes. Ep 1 ended with the question of who was the phantom menace, although it was blatanty obvious. Ep 2 ended with the question of what the hell Sidious's plan was, although it was too boring to be interesting. Ep 3 ended with the bad guys winning, but the good guys preparing the counter attack. Ep 4 was self sufficient because it was supposed to be a single movie Ep 5 left us on a major WTF situation. Ep 6 was the end of the Skywalker Arc. No, the previous episodes were not self sufficient, and things made sense only with the next installment. The only reason we feel it this time is because we actually care enough about the plot and the character to ask ourselves the questions. But unlike the original, we can't pop in the next episode to satiate our curiosity yet.
+Eddie "JaggSauce" Gluskin the comedy is what worked for the movie. It would be horrible if there wasnt so much comedic relief. I didnt like that we got to see the same story with non-outdated effects and that captain phasma was more captain cameo.
People watching episode 123-"I wish there could be more things like the old ones." People watching episode 7-"There's too much of the old ones" Make you god damn minds already, enjoy the f-ing movie!
You know damn well that when they say its too much like the original trilogy, they mean the plot of the movie. For the prequels, they are referring to the overall feel to the movie. People wanted it to be like the original trilogy in terms of the feel of it, they didn't want the plot to be a near-carbon copy. learn how to properly represent a side of the argument.
+Edrick Beltran Personally, I was really looking forward to new Star Wars music but it seemed like they reused a lot of the original trilogy music and it got on my nerves a little bit by the end. Say what you will about the prequels but they had some damn good music.
The blonde guy is saying exactly how i feel.. the movie was too, convenient. Ray was just not an interesting character to build on, and i feel like everyone is sayig "but the small things" and yeah, that could have been there WITH an original story with some places and people that EXPANDED what Star Wars is.. not emulates what it use to be.
+ultimateblaze23 yeah I wasn't a big fan of this movie but it certainly wasn't bad by any means. There are a lot of really bad movies out there. This isn't one of them.
+airbomb34 But there were no strong independent homosexual back transfemale leads, not to mention how politically incorrect the previous six movies were.
+truetype80 force awakens isn't that bad, phantom menace is in every objective way a terrible film, every character is totally static, there is no clear protag, there is no clear antag, there is no real story, and it has tone deaf 'comic relief' for the kiddies and senate meetings and trade embargoes that would bore Tom Clancy fans. force awakens has a clear main character, a clear villain, it has characters that make huge decisions and go though big changes, and have clear conflicts, it has a story, and it has a total lack of senate meetings and the humor is actually funny at least by my standards. you could argue that the story and characters aren't terribly original, you could argue that the film's means of depicting all of this isn't good. there are arguments you could make against it, but it HAS film elements, phantom menace lacks basic film elements, it is objectively bad, force awakens isn't objectively bad at all.
Btw for the record I loved Rey in this film and I agree Luke has his Mary Sue moments for sure, but he struggles in all three original films. Rey never struggles I am trying to see where she does and I am having a hard time. Luke: 1. Whiny Farm Boy who lets R2-D2 escape by removing his restraining bolt like a moron 2. Orphaned; lives with Aunt and Uncle who get slaughtered 3. Ass Kicked by Sand People saved by Obi-wan 4. Ass kicked in Cantina saved by Obi-wan 5. Gets blasted by force trainer in the ass looks like an idiot before he is able to deflect a few bolts. 6. Pulled under water in trash compactor by Dianoga beast nearly drowns 7. Mentor is slaughtered in front of him 8. Blows up death star with Obi-wans force ghost assistance and Han and Chewie taking out Vaders Tie Fighter along with Vader's wing-men in the trench before Luke bites it. Rey: 1. Orphaned abandoned scavenger fends for herself 2. Saves Finns ass from tie fighter aerial attack after beating the crap out of a few 200lb Jakku thugs, finds BB8 and understands his whistles and blips easily. 3. Pilots Millennium Falcon to escape capture and destruction expertly with the best aeronautical stunts ever witnessed in a Star Wars film including suspended engine maneuver to flip Falcon over so Finn can make money shot. 4. Repairs Hyper-drive compressor for Han in seconds and also repairs other falcon problems while Finn bumbles around with the tools 5. Saves Finn from the Rathtar monsters 6. Everyone Loves Rey 7. Han offers her a job on the falcon 8. Light-saber calls out to Rey 9. Rey gets captured but easily escapes using Jedi Mind tricks and cliff hanging athletic prowess 10. Your mind powers don't work on me Kylo 11. Defeats Kylo in light saber combat (although she was lifted into the air and knocked out for 30 seconds) before calling light-saber into her hand with no prior training or context set by writer/director. 12. Comes out of Kylo Ren battle totally unscathed. 13. Rey gets the Falcon 14. Off to find Luke to train him in the ways of the force.
Max Headroom I think part of the reason that people have trouble making this comparison is because, despite similar origin planets, they are just two completely different characters. Luke comes from a relatively coddled background, where he's essentially a farmhand. Rey wasn't raised in a pseudo father/mother home. She's been on her own for a matter of years, maybe a decade?? (her background is never explained).... So obviously she's going to be a more of a survivor and savvy character. It's established she's a pilot, and it's also established she has prior knowledge about the repairs done on the falcon.....So it's no big leap of logic to assume that she had probably done work on the ship as it was owned by her boss..... As far as the whole Kylo thing is concerned.... Her use of force powers (likely to be explained in a further installment), regardless of which scene we are talking about, were just slightly more exaggerated versions of things we saw luke do in the OT. Imagine Kylo, someone who probably hasn't encountered or had to contend with a force sensitive since slaying Lukes students, all of a sudden running into someone who is as strong if not stronger in the force...... Granted she's untrained, but seems to have more potential. Taking into account that he was wounded, emotionally conflicted, half trained (yet people keep comparing him to Vader, which is kind of absurd) and specifically ordered NOT to kill her, I thought it came off quite realistic. At the very least no more unrealistic than anything else we have seen in the star wars saga. It was as if something in her awoke.... A direct reference to the title of the film. Just my 2 cents.....
Max Headroom "I will reserve further judgement until the next installment." I think quite a few people should do this very same thing.... Thanks for being reasonable though, some of the people I have discussed this with are down right rude.
this movie has absolutely no soul at all what so ever. it has a brain that working way too hard, to make a mindless movie. this movie has no heart, but tries to pull at heart strings with intellectual sentiments that come from a creation that this entire film is anathema to.
+Mike Welson He's also writing Superman: American Alien, which is one of the freshest Superman origin retellings in some time. The stuff he writes isn't usually bad. Casting and other decisions can turn good into terrible.
for me it was the 2nd best starwars movie so far, after empire strikes back i give it a 8.9 to 9.0 i loved it i had 2-3 moments that was amazing also people hated the prequels because of the new stuff, now they cry they only get old stuff xD you will never be happy xD
+Holly I never saw the OrigTrig in the cinema, so I lost most that magic and have never more than liked SW. I have seen TFA twice now, and I would say it's the best one yet.
I feel like they should've held off on introducing Han. If they removed the weird tentacle monster scene and had more stuff of Finn and Rey adventuring on their own, I think we would've liked them more and their friendship would've been more believable.
So, wait, Max is complaining that we got a strong female character, after going through years of films lacking strong female characters? Does this guy hate everything because he has impossible expectations?
+Taylor Huston (Soundkiller) No, he's complaining that Rey learns everything ridiculously quickly. Like everything Kylo Ren (who's had some training and practice at least) tries to beat her with she beats him at within 5 mins of trying.
+Taylor Huston (Soundkiller) I'm no feminist, but I think we've had some pretty great female characters lately, that weren't just "women being strong by basically being men", but characters that were strong women. Essie Davis in The Babadook? Sarah Snook in Predestination? Strong female characters that weren't just "men with tits" as I call 'em, when they write a female character that is supposed to be strong by exhibiting classical male traits, instead of being decidedly female and still strong.
Force Awakens is Star Wars light. With almost 40 years of lore it was unoriginal and despite the fun call backs and nostalgia it ultimately felt empty. It vindicates Lucas and the prequels, because despite the fact that they had their problems he at least tried and brought in new elements that were exciting to see.
That's what kind of think too, at least Lucas tried to introduce new interesting stuff like (I'm gonna get a lot of flack for this) The Medicorans which I thought wasn't that bad of an idea like a lot people think and yeah the name is terrible, but at least it tried to give an good explanation behind the force, also showing us new and more unique creatures and planets (sure TFA introduced us some new creatures and planets but there not as creative as the prequels did), however the prequels almost as a whole were executed poorly by Lucas himself.
+mackrod1977 who would have EVER guessed that all the anti lucas people would come flocking back to him and say, sure your films were bad, but they were inventive and innovative... LOL this one is just a lazy hack job of remaking episode 4 with elements of episode 6... no wonder JJ kept the story on the down low, no one wanted to see a remake, star wars is too well seen for people to be satisfied with a remake...
I hate fanboys but I also hate anyone who dislikes something just to be contrary (not saying you are that). It really bugs me when people take a standpoint before listening to anything else and then refuse to listen to anything that goes against that. I am genuinely a person who could enter an argument with an opinion and then leave with an opposite opinion. Wish more people were like that.
+GlobalCitizenify but phantom menace was fine. it had maul, qui gon and I think the pod race is cool. the only set back was binks and small anakin had a little bit irritating way of speaking. the next movies had binks and other weird things like anakin grew up, weird animations, too much talk talk talk, etc and it had no maul and qui gon. i liked the prequels, even jar jar's character is okay, but i still think his way of talking and his voice is irritating.
To answer Dan's open question... it made $1 billion in 12 days... it's generally accepted as good to great. Which bring out the haters and the hipsters who love to hate what's accepted. That's why everyone wants to hate on it. to seem edgy.
First of all:It could make 10b on the opening weekend and that wouldn't make it decent, I consider to be an alright film (slightly above) average but I'm not a hipster. I wanted to love this film 100%, if anything people want the directors and producers to look into solving or improving the story build up..
@Treptow21 (Twitter) Then this post wasn't aimed at you. Are there people who genuinely don't like it... sure. But you cannot tell me with a straight face that the majority of the hate for this movie isn't trolls. btw, usually when someone says "first of all" they follow it up with a "second of all"
Don`t think so, and its common that people will say "first of all" for a point that isn`t necessarily related to their argument. Instead of using it to order their points. Also I am sure there are many trolls, but I wouldn`t say most are.
+Tom Fougstedt Poe's X-Wings charging in over the water against the New Order attack on Takodana, Kylo Ren stopping Poe's blaster (and the opening scene overall), "I wanna fight the good fight! ... You just need a pilot right? I need a pilot yeah", Kylo Ren beating his wound in the final fight (really the best damn fight in all of Star Wars imo), Han's death. I think it has plenty of excellent scenes that stick in your mind. The deal is that it's a Star Wars movie that came crashing in on the biggest hype-train ever seen by humanity, and it ended up being actually good. It's not an excellent movie, but neither is New Hope. It's bogged down by a lot of scenes, and has a few excellent scenes, and overall it's just a great movie.
+Žiga Auer I did like some moments, mainly the ones you mention. But the whole plot is an obvious rip-off of A New Hope, I came in expecting an original story, was severely disappointed.
Tonypikmin You realise he wouldn't have come up with this story and characters at all. It's very easy to sit and nitpick and add little things like he does in this video. If only they had done this and that it would have been better. But creating from scratch a story like this and these characters is something else. Different issue, there's something to be said about a writer, storyteller judging other writers work like this. The rest of us can do it but for a fellow writer to it. That is putting yourself on a piedestal and looking down on what essentially your colleagues. And if you'd seen frankenstein og American ultra you would find it very funny and somewhat ironic too. And the word douchebag barely even cover it.
rey was on tatooine fighting to survive = good combat skills with that staff. would be tearing apart republic and imperial wrecked ships her whole life = hacking skills. The force awakening inside her amplifying both. Also the fight between rey & kylo wasn't inexperienced vs. a master of the craft. Rey surviving on tatooine should honestly be able to beat the lil cry baby. He is pretty inexperienced as well, for all we know he was becoming a jedi when he turned not even at the title of jedi yet, let alone master jedi which most of the fights we have seen in previous movies involved.
+rustypro98 She just knew what she was doing, and had established reasons why she knew what she was doing. She also had fear and moral conflict in that she didn't want anything to do with fighting evil, cause she was scared and selfish (at first). That's called a character arch. That's not a Mary Sue.. that's a competent character. And no one complains about competent male characters.
+rustypro98 Rey was on Jakku, and hacking skills doesn't equate to flying skills. The fight was still between an experienced swordsman who has had training against a woman who had never picked up a blade before.
Not arguing about Rey winning, I disagree with Landis there. But the idea that Ren has never faced lightsaber to lightsaber combat is unlikely, particularly when he comes back to attacks Luke's Jedi. The fight itself told me he'd have saber training from someone; his fight with Finn and the early parts of his fight with Rey showed us that even wounded and delirious from killing his father, he could swing a blade against another with confidence. And where is it said when he left? He may have been 20 when he turned for all we know. The design isn't a problem with his blade, it's the crystal itself - officially it's cracked so he had to add vents to it. Not sure what from but that's the problem with it. Designs fine outside of that. If anything it's a smidge too powerful. . Rey never said she was an "Experienced pilot". When did you hear that? The official explanation of her skills is that she found a flight sim and hooked it up in her AT-AT. She's never actually flown a ship before - a few speeders and the like sure, but never something like the Falcon. Kylo's certainly a poser - for the dark side. But as a force user in general he had years of training with his uncle, years under Snoke, was a member of the knights of Ren, and possessed the blood of Vader/Skywalker. He was badass... just not Vader badass. And he reeeeeallly wanted to be Vader badass. As for Rey, her quick ascension and seeming invulnerability (much like John Cena's) are turn offs to Landis, and I can see why. She comes off a lot better in the book though.
I don't see where your argument amounts to her seeming invulnerable. She was flawed, as i explained. And everything else you mentioned seems speculative. She said she was an experienced pilot when they were running to get the starship while being bombarded by the tie fighters. Only saw it once, but i think it went something like this: Finn: "Where are we going to find a pilot?"/ Rey: "We got one right here." I don't know where you're getting these "official explanations", but being mad that she could *barely* pilot the Millennium Falcon has no baring under any explanation. The Falcon is a super fast and sharp-handling ship, which was the reason for their success in that showdown. But all that said, all of this is still fiction, and the biggest reason anything happened the way it did was because it was convenient to tell the story. Rey is just a female character who knows what she was doing and the fact that anyone could be threatened by that threatens my faith in humanity.
"Hey everyone seemed to like this movie, lets be different and shit on them, and btw we still hate the prequels just to be clear!" - Every RU-vid Channel right now
+ShowtimeCBCDC Everyone hating it are whining that the movie's too much like the old ones, yet all their complaints are about comparing it to the old ones. Luke wasn't that good as Rey at that age, why is she? Why aren't there Y-wings like in RotJ? Why didn't they do a Kylo vs Han reveal like they did with Vader vs Han. Petty.
+Nuudles Agreed. I also love the symbolism of that scene when Rey and Fin walk through the door and a light is cast down on Han and Kylo and its not till the light is gone does Kylo kill him.
+Eric Weber (Zero Cool) Yep. The problem is is that these people set their expectations to an unreachable point. So now they nitpick the hell out of it and are blinded by negativity when there are so many positives in this movie. It's sad really.
+Eric Weber (Zero Cool) yea, like its his final transition where he casts out the remaining 'light side' thoughts in him, yet it is still hard for him to do this
Never before have I seen a film where so many reviewers say "yeah, this is bad and this is bad and this is bad and this is bad......but hey, it's a good movie."
Tired of people saying that Fury Road is a "nothing story." I think that a simple story told very well is more important and shows more talent than a complex story told okay.
Yeah that really annoys me as well. Mad Max has a simple story. Henchman rebels against villain and rescues the princess (figuratively speaking), the villain gives chase, a fallen hero joins the cause and becomes a real hero again, the villain is defeated and the princess is saved. Cut to credits. Part of the reason why I enjoyed Mad Max was because of the simple story. It was so simple that it didn't take anything away from the amazing acting, sound, photography, action and setting. I think if Mad Max had a complex action-thriller story then no one would have had time to appreciate all the other stuff that was so great.
I think the biggest problem with Force Awakens is that it is a setup/transitional movie. Pretty much everything regarding the new characters was left flat. Everything about Finn, Rey, and Kylo was left off as sequel hooks while also transitioning from the original trilogy.
Also, to clarify, the setup problem is that is it's the main focus of the movie. The Starkiller stuff was secondary to setting up future plotlines, which took away from this movie.
Thats kind of what they did in A New Hope and Empire Strikes Back. They showed the characters in the first movie and gave you a little background of them, then in Empire Strikes Back we learn more about all the characters. So maybe thats what Rian Johnson will do and he is a very good director for good character development and dark settings.
Rey probably never piloted a ship (because she's a poor scavenger), but piloted it better than Han Solo on her first try Rey had never used a lightsaber, but was better than the greatest sith in the universe (who supposedly killed all the other jedi) on her first try Rey only knew stories of the force, but was able to perfect jedi mind tricks on her first try Rey had never known the millenium falcon, but was able to fix it better than Han Solo who had it his whole life on her first try So... why am I supposed to feel any suspense in this movie? Any time she is faced with a challenge, she'll just instantly be better than everyone without even trying. The only mistake she ever made the entire movie was pulling the wrong switch once.
+6dark6alex6 Not that the film explains it all that well, but Rey does have a lot of training as a pilot (via simulators) and she knows how the Falcon operates because she's snuck into quite a few times and is aware of the changes that were made to it by Unkar Plut. As far as her using a lightsaber goes, she's a very skilled fighter with her staff which transfers over to using a lightsaber. Also, as her vision hints at, she likely has training from Luke and had her mind wiped before being put on Jakku. However, she didn't best the greatest Sith in the universe. She didn't even best an average Sith. She bested a wounded and distracted student of the Dark Side who killed a bunch of other students who were on his level or lower. And Rey learned the Jedi Mind Trick because Kylo Ren accidently awakened her Force powers when he was trying to read her mind. The Jedi Mind Trick was likely something she learned as a child, though the film did a poor job of explaining that as well.
Stuff that wasn't explicitly in the movie is really meaningless. Really all that is saying is the film makers did a bad job conveying information we needed to know. Saying that she was trained by Luke Skywalker and saying that Kylo is a below average Sith kind of makes the movie sound like a complete waste of time then, doesn't it? It really does kill any and all sense of suspense and makes me not care about her at all
+SubiyaCryolite And nothing worth mentioning since. Anyone remember American Ultra or Victor Frankenstein? An hour after seeing them? He's really not one to talk about good writing when literally every film he's written alone was critically detested. (Chronicle was written with another guy and directed by Josh Trank, who may or may not be majorly talented).
Standout moments? Way more than episode 4. "That ship is garbage." BB-8 lighter Best lightsabre battles of all time. Actual struggle and slashing and poking instead of not hits until limbs fall off. And I've only seen it once. Your impression of episode 4 is candy colored. Everything was way more Mary Sue. This was a way more believable set of actions. Was Rey a little better than you'd expect? Yes, but there's so much we don't know about her, that's part of the mystery. If you think you should know everything up front, then why are you even criticizing similarities? Such a contradiction.
was bb8s light flicker a thumbs up? everyone is saying that but i thought it was a middle finger to finn because he was lying about being part of the resistence.
+ntucker I kind of agree with you in terms of how there were standout moments but the main thing in my opinion was that the standout moments weren't really all that great, they were just alright (besides the "That ship is garbage" part). There were a lot of good moments but nothing that was really memorable. That said, everything about this movie was perfect to me. I don't need great moments to appreciate good ones.
And where was the amazing moment in 4? It was only great because we were being introduced to a new world that is amazing. Empire and Jedi are the ones with great moments.
Even if future movies explain why Rey is a GOD who can do everything, and is powerful - that doesn't change the fact that she's a Mary Sue. I don't get this argument. Just because plot explains why someone is a Mary Sue, doesn't make them stop being Mary Sue's. All the problems that come with Rey's character (especially how it effects side characters and the plot) - doesn't just go away because there is plot that explains why she is a God.
+Matic Valentan they said on screen junkies plus that they pre recorded this and didn't do an honest trailer beccause they are currently on christmas vacation.
Ew why the hell is Max landis here, even before his sexist interview I knew he was a class A jerk. Rey struggled plenty in this movie so she was not a Mary Sue in any way. She didn't perfectly fly the millennium falcon, her lightsaber form was sloppy before she tapped into the force. She even decided to run away from the force at first when she touched the lightsaber so it shows she's not perfect. Mary Sue is just a term men use when they're uncomfortable with a female character having the same amazing abilities male characters have had for generations.
The point i'm trying to make is that people rarely criticize men for being all powerful and have things naturally come to them. No one called Harry Potter a Gary Stu for knowing how to speak parseltongue suddenly
Kyle Schafer Somehow you think the word feminist is an insult which i don't understand. Besides I'm not that into labels, so your comment doesn't even offend me
Yes thank you Becky, that's exactly right. Also the guy on the right in the video was spot on when he says it's all about tentpole filmmaking these days, trying to get to the point as fast as possible
Carissa Renard I know and I agree. But then again, men get very rarely critiqued as characters as it is. And that's one of the good things about male characters. They can be ANYTHING. Why female characters don't get to be equal is the very reason that EVERYONE has opinion what female characters SHOULD BE, men and women alike. And that's a problem. Because when one says: "Female character should be this badass character who takes no crap from nobody, and she's not that sexy either.", that person rules out list of characters there. This would never happen with male character. Well, it might, but not that often. But I agree with you. People should chill down the critique on all of the sides and just let female characters be molded into something more natural. So they could do the same things as male characters can.
he has never used it before. we have seen rocket launchers before and other cool looking guns. you wont know true enjoyment until you actual use it in real life
Renan Yeil doesn't matter if you are in a military or not. That does not apply. I never held a gun or anything awesome looking like the bowcaster before but I'm sure it will be a lot cooler once I actually hold it. There is a big different level of excitement. Did I also mention that's a nitpick?
+Reuben Natal he has legitimate experience in screenwriting, so he recognizes things like shoddy character development, plotholes, and what people are going for when making a film. He also wrote Chronicle, so its safe to say he knows what he's talking about. I'm not trying to get into a shitfest here, I'm just wondering why everyone is dismissing him without a second thought.
I am in agreement with Ken. This film has struck a new chord with me upon every viewing. This movie will stand the test of time and in 30 years fans will look at it like we look at Empire. J.J. Abrams knocked it out of the park with this one.
Owen Major We're going to disagree big time there. Of course certain beats payed tribute to the original trilogy, it's ALL the fans have asked for since The Phantom Menace came out. The characters themselves, are extremely unique and each have a diverse path set before them in the rest of this trilogy. This film balanced characters better than any other Star Wars film except for Empire.
The Force Awakens is not as much of a cultural impact like the original trilogy were, it's not an inspiring piece of filmmaking, but it is a fun, enjoyable, and overall good movie.
It’s interesting watching this after the last Jedi released. So many of the excuses people make for things in this movie not working not making sense because it will be explained in the sequel (phasma, reys connection to other characters and simply being good at everything, Leah seeming to know Rey, etc.) are now moot. Nothing was explained and the rose colored glasses everyone sees these films through is totally a thing and distracting people from the fact that there are fundamental flaws in these stories and they distract you with snappy [awkward] dialogue and flashy modern filmmaking. These films will not be remembered well.
It's even more interesting after TROS. These films were basically pointless and added pretty much nothing to the greater mythos besides invalidating pretty much the entire arc of Vader and the Rebellion.
rey was not thin, maybe she has mary sueish tendencies but she had flaws. she was clumsy, naive and overconfident. she lied about knowing how to pilot ships and use guns. she believed finn when he said he was part of the resistance and took in bb8 without much discussion. She was defeated by kylo ren twice, in the forest and in the starkiller base. also kylo ren was badly injured in the last fight. throughout the movie they had built up chewbacca's crossbow as incredibly powerful and destructive (remember that stormtrooper who got completely blown away by it?) and he would punch his wound during the fight. rey defeating him did fell like deus ex machina but was supposed to show the power of the force, the whole premise of the movie is that the galaxy is shit because there's no jedis and now there is.
I have issues with their idea, pushed forward mostly by Max Landis, that Kylo Ren is some kind of weak vilain since he didn't totally dominate Ray and Finn. Which he kind of did actually. He was injured and was still intimidating as all hell. He's a more complex vilain then what Star Wars has given so far when it comes to the first movie of a trilogy. Darth Vader gets more character development in Empire, but Kylo Ren is a vilain that we know better at the end of the first movie then what we knew about the other vilains from the other two trilogies. I'm also not fond of this cinema cliché of having an almighty and over-powered vilain that purely dominates everyone. That's not a good way to write a character... that's a cliché. Having Ren be so emotional, conflicted and fighting with rage after getting badly injured, and still winning for most of the fight was an amazing way to write this scene. I'm standing with J.J. Abrams on this one. It was perfect the way it was done.
Spoilers (just in case) So Finn was a coward who: Didn't go with the order of shooting the civilians in the camp with his superior officer in eye sight. Defected from the 1st Order (and essentially the only life he knew) after realizing that it conflicted with his idea of heroism. Broke a high target soldier out of Prison. Was about to jump into a fight to help Rey out before she whooped those dudes with her staff. Had what he wanted (a chance to get away from it all) and turned around and went right back into the battle after he saw the ships coming. Was willing to BS Leia and the rebel alliance into being a part of a mission just so he could save Rey. Was willing to fight a sith with no real lightsaber training just to protect Rey. (At best he got trained to use the deflector weapon the storm trooper used) Yeah he might be kind of dumb, but I wouldn't say he was a coward and end it there. He faced his fears and rose above them.
+TheLeeLife Well said. I don't understand why people say they need more of a reason as to why he defected. Watching the first order slaughter villagers and controlling a weapon that can destroy star systems isn't enough? Remember we know that acts of non-conformity are common since they keep track of the number of infractions and have a reconditioning program set up.
+Eric Weber (Zero Cool) because he had been raised and trained in that environment, just like those other Stormtroopers wo did the slaughtering. It's not like he was drafted or volunteered and then that happened. And according to Phasma that was his first offense, so he had never shown any weird behavior prior.
Samuel Pérez García He had also never been in battle before so he never saw first hand what the First Order was all about. After the other storm trooper dies he gets up and looks around and understands whats really going on.
***** it doesn't matter who her mother is... maybe she is part Sith like in the expanded universe (not canon)..... But all that matters is that she belongs to Luke.
isnt Max Landis the guy who wrote such "CLASSICS" as American Ultra and Victor Frankenstein?. saying that this really good film has some flaws seems really stupid when he can't even write a half-decent one. and the things he throws at force awakens could be thrown at his stuff way more
That doesn't mean he can't speak on other movies. Roger ebert made some absolutely terrible movies but he's the most famous film critic of all time. Michael Jordan is the one of the greatest bball players of all time but he's arguably the worst eye for talent the game has ever seen. Phil Jackson is one of the greatest coaches of all time but he's a mediocre GM and eye for talent. Not comparing him to any of these guys just sayin maybe he has some valid points.
I understand where your coming from. Yes of course he can criticise but I'm saying that he is picking particular faults with the film that he is particularly bad at as well as a writer. His film American ultra had really poor characters where Things don't make sense. Chronicle even has story problems - like why does everyone have a hand held camera? So why does he get so hung up on little details with force awakens. it's like George Lucas complaining about a film having too much senate discussions in or Michael Bay criticising a film for having to much robots hitting each other. Feels a bit hypocritical
If landis just said "force awakens is great but it's got some flaws" I'd be ok with that, but he doesn't just say that - he shouts and rants at times in this video as if the film is unwatchable. He gets really mad at points about how things don't work
Do u understand screen writing once the scripts done everything is out of his control I also would like to say that u can't call him a bad critic just becuase his opinion is different from yers
Rey invented the Jedi Mindtrick and perfected it at the 2nd attempt. She also beat Ren in a 'Force Pull' battle at her first attempt at a 'Force Pull'. It's just LOL You can say 'she has had some training as a toddler' but even still, it was her first attempt since she was like 5 years old. It's not believable at all. It comes off as fan fiction written by Daisy Riddley (who was grreat in the movie, I'm not criticising her)
+RP FS2 She didn't invent Mind trick, she probably remembered considering she knows the legends about the Jedi, and was a youngling or close to the students of Luke. And the lightsaber is pretty much excalibur at this point. It calls for its owner, reveal visions and only come to the hand of the Chosen One.
Justin Willms Well I have no memory before my 8th birthday. As far sa I'm concerned, I could have had another sibling who would have died and not remember it unless someone told me. And even so, I'd ask for proof.
RP FS2 Is it? I never really thought about it. I mean, I have flashes, feelings, but nothing really clear, unless someone who was there tries to make me remember.
markus bisma What is she good at that either wasn't explicitly explained, or doesn't have a direct correlation with something some other character in the Star Wars universe hasn't magically pulled off in the past?
The part I loved was during the Falcon flight near the beginning, fending off the TIE Fighters. The turret gets stuck in one position and is unusable at that point, Rey then flies up, cuts the power(or something similar) and lets the Falcon basically flop out of the air in the perfect position for the turret to be used again. That was the only moment in the film where I though "Holy Shit, that was cool" Did anyone else enjoy that moment as much as I did or was it just me?
Furiosa was also a Mary Sue character though...she doesn't fail at anything the entire movie. Doesn't mean I liked her any less. EDIT: Okay, so all of you pointing out points in Mad Max where Furiosa failed...here's the point of my comment: pointing out the places where Rey succeeded, doesn't take away from the places where she failed. And if you focus only on those moments where they succeed, you often forget all the places they failed along the way. And she did fail quite a few times in the movie, just like Furiosa. My comment wasn't actually, explicitly saying that Furiosa is a Mary Sue (though I admit I said it like that). My point was that the arguments for claiming Rey is a Mary Sue are almost as ridiculous as those claiming that Furiosa was.
+sylinmino And Rey isn't a Mary Sue. A Mary Sue does more than not fail, she excels at everything, even if it's not related to the story and is overwhelming in every way, from power to skill to charisma. It's like a cheat in a video game, max stat all the way. Rey is naive, a poor shot, a scared woman and is keeping herself in her own delusion. Before she is forced to leave Jakku, she is at the mercy of the giver of food. If she was a Mary Sue, she would be the leaer of the camp, singlehandily save Finn, then flawlessly convince Han, Finn and Chewie to fightthe good fight with the Resistance while accepting without blinking her role as a Jedi. She also would already be serene, balanced and calm, like a Jedi Master.
+Contevent So Rey masters flying the Falcon at first try, repairs it faster and better than Han and Chewie, perfects the mind trick the first/second time she uses it against Kylo who is more experienced than her, wins a lightsaber fight 5 mins after first touching a light saber again against Kylo who was trained by Luke and Snoke and you say she isnt a Mary Sue? So this in normal in your book and not excelling at first try? How so?
***** Because she is not excelling. She does not "master" flying the falcon, all force sensitive are excellent pilot. She does not repairs it better than Han, she knows he different modifications that has been done, therefore she knows what goes wrong when something go wrong. She does not perfect the mind trick, she resists Kylo who left himself open, underestimating her power. And then she tries 3 times on a guard before it works. And finally, she does not master the lightsaber battle. She is pushed into a corner pretty quickly until she begins the channel the Force against Kylo Ren who has suffered wounds that have killed others and who is under orders not to kill her. Plus, a Mary Sue is more than an overpowered character. It's an overwhelming character full of fan service and perfection at everything she touches. Rey has weaknesses and those have consequences on the plot. Her self delusion and denial, along with her terror in the face of Kylo Ren make her right for the taking. And while she escape her cell, she would have been recaptured if not for Finn and Han. Her expertise is also justified every step of the way, except for her Force abilities which are hinted but not really explained. Something for the next movies I guess.
+sylinmino Furiosa gor her ass beaten by Max and other characters. She needed help several times throughout the film. She was about to kill everyone by crossing the desert. She was tough, but she made mistakes and that's what makes the character interesting. +Contevent She is an absolute Mary Sue. Poor shot? She misses literaly one shot the first time she fires a blaster, the second shot goes right to the heart and from then on she nails it. She fixes (and flies) the Millenium Falcon better than Han Solo, she can resist mind reading, she can CONTROL minds with the force (only Obi Wan had done it so far, a super trained Jedi Master), she masters the force pull (Even better than Luke in empire) and not only does she call the light saber, she beats Kylo's force pull. They wanted to make a "strong independant female women who don't need no man" ("don't grab my hand!" really? could it have been more on the nose). And in the end they just made a boring generic character. Answer me this: What can Luke teach her? She already has more power and skills than Luke ever had.
+Elaise adasd No it's just that the Mary Sue argument is a slimy detraction from insecure MRAs that can not they deal with the fact that the new hero in this trilogy is a women, so they point out alleged "flaws" in her character in guise of their prejudgement of Rey. Watch how all who claim Rey is a Mary Sue, happen to be BIG fans of Kylo Ren. Rey messes up throughout the film and learns as she goes. Look up JM Frey. Max doesn't know what he is talking about
Honestly they're really not though, They even mention it in the video. It's really just this whole Mary Sue bullshit that's been blown completely out of proportion that people are having trouble with.
+nudl3Zz "wasn't the point of american ultra that they are these super agents but don't know it? so it actually makes sense that they are that good?" Wasn't the point of The Force Awakens that Rey is incredibly sensitive to the force making her that good? Think about Luke from the earlier movies, very little training, but incredibly good at pretty much everything he did.
+Brett Putman PLEASE!!! This guy is soooo annoying, his voice, his look, his writing is not so good (or any good) Victor Frankestein anyone??? Why would anyone listen to him? He doesn't stop, let other people speak... stop giving a plataform to this pathetic hack!
+Scott Findlay Yeah I would really like see someone actually argue Max, because he comes up with some dumb bullshit of Lea also dying, Captain Phasma capturing Rey and Finn, Rey turning Dark Side at the end of the movie and Darth Vader reappearing?! Come on, nobody would've thought those things were better than what we actually got!
It could've been interesting if the story was setul differently. Next to that, you have to build up a trilogy. If you are introducing a likeable new protagonist only to turn her evil at the end of the movie wouldn't do it much good. One could argue it would be interesting if this twist meant that Ben would turn back to the light side in the next movie and the roles would reverse, but we wouldn't sympathise enough with his character anymore after his actions in this movie, and introducing a new character would be starting from scratch again.
+Steven van der Vegt If you haven't watched Chris Stuckmann's spoiler review of the movie I would. He does a really good job of backing up your point about building up the trilogy when he talks about how we don't know the big picture of the trilogy yet, so people may have unfair questions until episode 8.
Sorry, but you're not reviewing the movie at all. You're just mumbling about your expectations and what you wished the movie had in it or not. There's almost no reflection of the movie itself. Story, execution, acting, effects and so on are just mentioned on the side and in no specific order. The "review" moves in a circle. Always and only measured on whether you liked it or not. I wish you worked a bit more with the given material and not just talked about your expectations and own fan fiction. You can do better!
+Guilherme Graça ...... it's been 32 years and FO were investing their budget in a weapon that is 100 times the size of a Death Star. Making a universe that is a carbon copy of the OT is redundant and should have some progressive chronological events that unfold.
+Guilherme Graça not only that, but where are all the capital ships? Where are the mon calamari cruisers? where's Ackbar's command ship, the rebels' verion of the Super Star Destroyer?
+The Electrocist Yeah, it's a big and powerful weapon, but what good is it once it fully drains the star? Is it able to move out of that local system so it can get it's fuel from another star? I didn't hear it said if could move or not. If it can't, it's a rather limited use weapon and not worth investing into in that case.
The TIE Fighters should've been TIE Advanced. The idea of the fighters was that the Empire was so massive that they were going by the numbers. Hundreds of cheap fighters that simply give a pair of laser cannons on wings to the battlefield, with no shields or hyperdrive. But the First Order can't afford that privilege, they should need good prepared pilots flying decent ships like TIE Advanced. I don't care if they've the same appearence as Vader's x1 or the video games' TIE Avenger, or something with elements from the TIE Interceptor. But I think that giving rear laser cannons and missile launchers to a "simple" TIE Fighter was kind of odd.
7 SUCKED!!!! We wanted and waited for 7, 8 and 9 that were written back in 1980 with the rest of the Saga.. Disney have fucked the story up and turned it into a princess story..
agreed did you live threw the precquels cause I did and if you were waiting for what Lucus was going to do than I'm sorry for your taste in Star Wars. not to mention Lucas him self admitted that he never wrote any of it. At best he had some vague outline of what he wanted to do.
agreed did you live threw the precquels cause I did and if you were waiting for what Lucus was going to do than I'm sorry for your taste in Star Wars. not to mention Lucas him self admitted that he never wrote any of it. At best he had some vague outline of what he wanted to do.
I saw The Force Awakens several times now and Rey is a scavenger and she L is definitely nothing like a princess so you my friend and not a real Star Wars fan and you've proven you don't know women at all. Not all women are princesses!
I would be more okay with the fact that Finn held his own against Kylo if they had set him up as good with a lightsaber but it almost seemed like they purposely set him up as bad / inexperienced. Not only was he a janitor but also he fought against a stormtrooper and lost. Now, in our frame of reference, Kylo is barely better than a stormtrooper and I think that was my problem with that. Sure, he was injured but isn't the pain supposed to help someone with the dark side? Wasn't that why he was hitting his wound? Also, I don't think he was emotionally comprimised. He was clearly angry, another thing that is supposed to help someone with the dark side. Look at Luke at the end of episode VI; Luke's anger was basically what allowed him to defeat Vader and cut his hand off. That being said, I was okay with the idea that Rey was able to beat him because it just felt like it was setting up her as this fast learner. Personally, I don't mind her being perfect at everything.
+Michael the Magician held is own? the guy is in a coma at the end of the movie...as they say in the video kylo was toying with him...Finn didn't have any technique to his fighting all he did is swing the sword and trying to defend him self...Finn touched kylo once and then kylo throw him away and left him unconscious
+Michael the Magician Rewatch the movie and I think you will find that Finn is not as good with a lightsaber as people first see him as. I admit that when I watched the movie the first time I thought that maybe Finn did hold his own a little bit too well, but after rewatching I realized that he only actually gets in one shot and that is when Ren gets cocky and starts spinning his saber. Immediately after that though he dominates over Finn, beating him instantly.
It was a mistake To have Max on this. Just sapped all the great discussion you COULD have had. Instead it was 40 mins of a guy talking over 3 other guys and bringing the whole mood/show down. I love movie fights etc, but there are some very odd choices on who to put on at times. Was looking forward to your review but it became unbearable. Ken looked pissed, and for good reason.
No. He shouldn't have been on the show. I like Movie Fights (for example), for intelligent, insightful, and constructive debate, which is why my favourite fighters are Dan, Alicia, Chris, and Mike, even though I don't always agree with them. I don't particularly like the shows with Mantz, Christisn Harloff when he goes off, or Nick when he's drunk, because they talk over each other. Max's arguments were flimsy here and he didn't back them up in a very convincing fashion. His rants on what should have been done were equally uninspiring. Look, I don't really know the guy, I don't live in the US, I don't use twitter, and this is just the second time I've seen him, the first being on Movie Fights. I've seen TFA just once and I thought it was pretty decent but it has problems. I'm probably leaning toward Dan, except I didn't care about R2 rebooting that much, and I think a lot more will be revealed in the next movie. You can disagree and have fun doing it, but Dan and Ken looked like they were doing their best to tolerate him, and Andy, I don't know. He seems to enjoy Max, but then sometimes Andy loses control on Movie Fights too. So, yes, of course he has the right to speak. In my opinion, this particular review would have been better without him. But hey man, it's just an opinion. There's also a difference between a dominant personality and being loud. Anyway, if you like listening to him, knock yourself out.
Yes, I realize that, but to me it looked like Dan and Ken were enjoying it less than I was. Not because he disagreed with him, but just because it wasn't a fun discussion. Just my impression, and I guess only they could correct me on that. I guess what I'm saying is, it was an awkward discussion, and I felt DAN and Ken were holding back so as to avoid a shouting match. You ever had that friend that you have to step on eggshells around because you know he'll turn something into a big drama or go on a big rant? That's the feeling I got. Just my impression. Again, I may be wrong, but that would be up to them to correct me.
Honestly I don't blame Disney for playing it safe and making a dull copy of a movie. Star Wars fans complained and bullied George Lucas for YEARS because they didn't like the Prequels. They made such a big deal over some fictional shit. Disney had pressure to deliver. SW7 is mediocre at best but because it isn't the prequels, people will eat it up. IMO SW7 is actually the least original, story driven star wars movie. I'm still struggling because I wanted to like this movie but I didn't.
Dude. Kylo had no training. He was a poser. He had not fought anyone with the Lightsaber either, EVER or at the very least a LONG long time ago. He had no one to practice with. He was a poser. Its that simple. No training. c'mon guys...
Star Wars is the only franchise that people need to apologize for not liking it. In a few years, the fanboys will calm down and we'll all be able to call this movie for the hack job that it is.
