And yet people act like that's somehow the absolute worst thing that could ever happen when a number of things in the OT were themselves "farewells" to traditional norms at the time.
With that said, because of what WeirdoTZero is one of the many reasons why I love the new Star Wars film. Especially since we have new blood in the franchise and can create new plot lines, and much more besides Good vs. Evil in the original trilogy and why I think the new trilogy will (arguably) be better than the original trilogy.
I just like the TFA and TLJ because of how there drifting away from the original trilogy and doing different things than wasn't possible back in the og trilogy like Finn, Rei, the first order (especially the storm troopers), and so on.
I have to agree with Ryan and Johnny. There is no reason for Holdo to not tell Po the plan the moment he found out about the transports. Because at the end of the day, him not knowing led to him sending Finn and Rose on a goose chase which almost got them killed, and their escape plan exposed. They could have prevented so much conflict by simply TALKING. Po was perfectly fine with it when he learned the truth. If anything, had she explained the truth to the entire ship, he would not have been able to pull off the mutiny. Hell tell him the plan WHILE HE IS TRYING TO MUTINY YOU. I didn’t mind Po, he acted completely in character, and I can’t fault him for that. But her refusal was completely asinine.
And she didn’t even need to give him the full details she simply could have at least said to him don’t worry we have a plan and then tell him a small amount of the plan without giving him everything . It’s a sign of trust and respect and that bitch had no respect for him .
I don't blame her for having little respect for him at the time. He got the entire bomb squad killed by going against orders. Yes he's an amazing pilot and is great in the heat of battle, but as a leader he was far too impulsive.
+DevilHunter1994 That’s understandable, but all the more reason to tell him. If you let a guy like him think that you don’t have a plan, he is going to take matters into his own hands. Her stubborn refusal to share an escape plan that HE IS INVOLVED IN, jumpstarts all the inevitable fuck ups that lead to the exposure of said plan. This could have been worked around had there been fear of a mole in the Resistance. But they didn’t write it that way, so it’s just stupid.
Dude, it's a lose-lose scenario. She doesn't tell him, he assumes something stupid and makes a mutiny. She DOES tell him, and considering his stupid heroism he just showed, *he makes a mutiny anyway* for her strategy of turning tail and running all the time.
Yeah, that scene between Luke and Leia made me cry. That's the power of motion pictures right there. Also, the reason why Porgs exist is because the location where they shot the Jedi Temple scenes were overrun by puffins which are a protected species that they couldn't touch. Instead, they CG'd critters over the puffins and called them Porgs. By that logic, John should be hating on puffins, but why would you want to? Have you seen those birds? They're adorable!
@@bbsj86 what's the point of shooting a ship when you can send a missile at light speed through it. Send a couple at the death star and it's over. What's the point of a death star if you could fly a few ships into a city or planet. It's kinda like having automatic guns in medical Europe, why use arrows? It makes you question so much in the entire saga. Light speed has been a thing for 1000s of years in starwars, why is holdo the first to do this or use this? Why was this never seen in the prequels with all those ships everywhere? It looks pretty I'm the film but contextually it really boggles the mind given the rest of the lore and universe.
@@joeandrew8752 couldn't get a ship with lightspeed close enough to the death Star to reliably do that (plus that ship is gonna keep going, what if it hit a planet or star? Big problem), can't lightspeed missiles.
@@bbsj86 if it keeps going I dint see why that would bother either the first order of the Empire. And no it's possible. Just light speed so it's close and light speed again. We saw ships getting close to each other in rogue one. Remember near the end when earth vader's ship came out of light speed literally infront of the rebel ship and then the rebel ship crashed into his ship. Can look it up, it's on RU-vid. If we were to take the last Jedi literally, why didn't the rebels light speed into vader's ship when he showed up. See what I mean.
This movie had some spectacular highs and some resounding lows, but I still the highs are so good that it's worth toughing through the less great stuff. And even when it isn't that great its still pretty alright.
Her flying wasn’t the issue I had. It was her surviving the vacuum of space. For me, it was too much of a jump from what we saw her do in ROTJ, with no hinting that her power had progressed.
+TeoTeoTeo Umm. No. Luke obviously trained in the year or two because he got his ass handed to him by Vader. Leia had no reason to train during 30 years of diplomatic peace. Plus all Luke did was go from telekinesis to mind tricks, you didn’t see him surviving the vacuum of space did you?
When was there actual peace? Sure things got better initially after the Empire's fall, but the remnants were constantly rebuilding and stirring up trouble. In a sense, the current conflict is really just a continuation of their fight against the Empire. The war never truly ended. It just changed.
Exactly - nobody has ever been seen using this kind of power in the history of Star Wars, the EU, the Comics, etc - never. There was a minor force power called "Force Shield" that was in the Star Wars RPG, which allowed Luke to cover himself in a minor protective field - in-game it added like 4d6 "armor" to him, to deflect lava spray / fire coming up from a volcanic cavern, in one of the books. I got the impression that was what they were going for - Leia had projected a field around her, that kept a small amount of oxygen, etc in around her - allowing her to survive at a bare minimum level, for a minute or so, as she force-pulled herself back to the ship. Now...that's at least a plausible explanation, using the Force...but the question is, why does Leia have mastery of such a high-level Force ability ? Luke was a Jedi Master, in the novel, at the time he used the ability - so it was shown as being fairly high-level in terms of challenge to employ.
I think if Phasma is brought back, it will be cloning. Remember back in TFA when Ren told Hux they need to switch to a clone army? I think that now that Kylo is in charge he'll opt for a clone army and they'll use Phasma as the template since she's the best Stormtrooper there is
This is definitely a late response, but screw it. 2 years after the Last Jedi, and Phasma isn't so much as mentioned or referenced at ALL. What a waste of a character.
Blueyoshi BB-8 said it according to people who speak Droid. Given this fandom, I would not be surprised that people can understand and translate their beeps.
Sir Piguithy Well in universe their beeps are translated into binary, which are translated into the Star Wars language on a monitor. I'm sure there are Star Wars fans dedicated enough to learn the entire Star Wars alphabet, and then tracing that through binary and then to the beeps. But I can't be bothered.
In the scene where Rose meets Finn. Finn never puts his bag in the escape pod before being interrupted by Rose, however the bag just magically appears in the seat of the shuttle when she starts questioning Finn.
It's one of those continuity errors that you really have to squint to see. Like Luke's shoulder piece vanishing and then reappearing in the cell block scene from A New Hope. Or Darth Vader's chest piece suddenly reversing during his battle with Obi Wan, also in A New Hope.
Nerdy George Washington that may be, but I feel as though it's something that affected the story a bit more than the mistakes made in A new hope. Like it's the reason why Rose stunned Finn and how they ended up figuring out the whole "tracking through light speed" subplot. Makes you think what had happened if Finn never got caught. Of course it can be argued that it doesn't really matter either way, because they were ultimately pointless in this movie.
I loved this movie; Pros; 1.Anything with Luke and Rey 2.Kylo Ren 3. Snoke dying 4. Leia survives 5. Luke slapping Reys hand with a leaf 6. Yoda... Just... I love Yoda(also, was hoping for Ewan McGregor to show up as Obi) 7. Rey and Kylo vs. Praetorian Guards 8. Light speed clash 9. Poe as a character 10. Finn vs Phasma 11. Reys parents are nobodies... Thank GOD Cons; 1. Casino place could have been shortened 2. Holdos a dumb bitch 3. Phasmas(supposed) death 4. Benicio del Toros character 5. No Knights of Ren... Where the fuck are they?
Except Leia surviving the VACUUM OF SPACE, is very contrived. If it was just lack of oxygen, I could believe that. But do you know what would happen to you in space? Your blood would immediately boil and expand outward from your body in the most violent way possible. While the outside of you freezes over instantly. No Jedi or Sith has EVER survived the vacuum of space. So a woman with little training in the force, who we’ve only seen to be able to “mind link” with her brother previously, is suddenly able to do all that. That’s where I draw the line.
I'm shocked the First Order didn't shoot Benicio once he outlived his usefulness to them. Also, imagine what could have been if Holdo simply told Poe what her plan was. That was all he wanted. I understand we as humans commit many failures in communication, but so many misunderstandings I ever see in movies or TV shows feel contrived. I'm also glad Rey's parents are nobodies. It sends a message that you don't have to be born special to be a hero.
Because if they pay off the crook and let him go, they can call in his services later. It's a smart move considering he was obviously a talented amoral fuck who would probably help them in the future for the right price, meanwhile the Resistance will probably never trust him again. - Lewis
BrainScratch Commentaries yeah, the Empire did a similar thing with bounty hunters. Hire them now, pay them, and if need be, hire them again later. I know for a fact that Benicios character is gonna come back.
My original theory for how they were tracking them through light-speed was because they planted a tracker in Finn during his days as a stormtrooper. Might as well have a way to monitor your troops activity.
they explained why they didn't use tie fighters. because they couldn't defend the tie fighters at that distance that's why Kylo and his team had to stop attacking in the first place.
My problem with that explanation is that they shot out the bridge of their flagship and the Resistance ships can't seem to repel their fire at that range. Casualties may arise, but they probably would have fared better just finishing the assault they had in progress, or continuing it a bit longer since damaging any ship faster would probably have lost what little leniency their escape attempt had.
Admiral Ackbar should have been the one that stayed in the cruiser for the light speed jump, with Hux shouting something along the lines of: "All ships, set power to all forward shields! It's a trap!!!" Something to make a poetic end for the Admiral we grew to love. As for the Finn vs. Phasma, what should have happened is that TR8R should have made a return along side Phasma after recovering and being personally trained by her. Make TR8R be the one that falls in the pit after a fight that last about twice of the Finn Phasma fight, then Phasma escapes damaged.
I think he died with so little significant because his voice actor died and so nothing much could be done with him without hiring a good imitator...which the producers did do, but may have thought it would be disrespectful to give Akbar a prominent role without his original voice actor, even if that role were to be a noble sacrifice. Actually, that sounds like a bit of a half-assed excuse.
These Movie Discussions need to happen more often! I would totally listen to a BSC Podcast where you guys don't commentate over games that you have played and instead talk and discuss other things for about an hour and a half
I will say, Holdo going 1940's Japanese fighter pilot into General Snoke's ship was a favorite shot of mine... Even though she probably could've kamikazed that thing before the New Order shot down 75% of the Resistance...
Did you guys know that a Grey side of The Force religion actualy exist, all that equilibriun thing that Luc pulls in the island (and Rey descent on the Dark Side hole) sounded like The Grey Jedi in the Expanded universe
Oh. Wow. There are only three lightsaber-wielding people in the movie and they never faced each other in a fight. In fact, it was quite the opposite. The flashback wasn't in the timeline of the movie.
I enjoyed the porgs because of how they were treated, they were a studio mandate probably, and so they are treated as pests in and out of universe, ultimately I would've preferred if they stayed out of the movie, but I still enjoyed them
There is a shield around the resistance ship that the first order can’t break through and you can constantly see ships taking shots at the ship trying to break through. Also they do break through at points for example they destroy the med bay. I would argue that the first order is not only waiting for the resistance ship to lose fuel but are also actually trying to stop them but the shield is protecting them.
I actually liked the Finn-Rose subplot to the point of it expounding on the theme of why Finn should fight in the Rebellion, not to hurt people he hates, but to save people he loves. Yeah most of the shit with the hacker was annoying and was, more or less, annoying. However, I feel like the whole subplot does enough for me to enrich the film.
The ships creating trails of red dust across the white planet was really awesome to watch. It was definitely one of the most memorably eye-catching moments of Star Wars.
I'm really mixed on this film. I think I liked it more than force awakens, but I'm not sure. Highlights include: Good small comedy moments (hux repeating orders, Luke's ocassional smartass moments, Chewie and the porgs, etc.) Leia using the force looks dumb Feels too long at points (that dreadnaught destruction feels like a good cutoff, but then again the ending would not have worked as an intro) Phasma's role feels to sudden and like it's lacking content Snoke is killed oddly quickly (and he looks like the "I love gold" guy) I personally didn't mind the Finn and Rose stuff because I do like world building and seeing the worlds not directly tied to the good guys bad guys, but it is the most pointless part of the movie Love the tie fighter dog fight music returning, Luke actually uses the force in a cool way, the vulptexes are addition I feel really dumb for not getting that Luke was a hallucination until it was outright revealed, considering there's a ton of hinting behind him. And Hondo (or is it Holdo?)'S sacrifice is a cool moment Shot wise and "awesome" wise but her character is just too small and she never bothered to tell Po what's going on which fixes everything. While I think it is good drama to show things getting so shitty that there's a mutiny, the reason for that mutiny is really shitty. The line about Hux's mother makes even more sense because expanded universe reveals Hux is a bastard child. There is a scene in rebels where one of the remaining Jedi pulls himself through space after getting thrown out a ship, but it still feels less weird than how Leia does it. And I do love the reveal of Rey's parents. She doesn't need to be of some heroic lineage, she's a hero of her own. (Oh, and also the good battlefront 2 actually has a thing in campaign where you're the empire and you need to beat the rebels above yavin before their cruisers lightspeed through you, which Made the moment feel familiar.
Blueyoshi I was very happy with Snoke's death because he was just a less entertaining Emperor (except for him slamming Hux, that was great). As well as it does away with the "Master and Apprentice" dynamic from every other Star Wars movie
Red Lantern Reviews I think it's interesting to not make him the big bad, and he doesn't need a super deep character arc or duel, but he just doesn't get much.
Blueyoshi I honestly don't think he really needed much. The way I interpret his death, it's like what the Emperor said to Luke "Strike me down and yourturn to the dark side will be complete".
The Emperor didn't really get much either until the Prequel Trilogy happened. I wouldn't have minded a little more info on Snoke, but I mostly agree with Red Lantern. Snoke really just felt Palpatine 2.0 and I'm kinda glad that he's gone.
DevilHunter1994 it's true that plapetine has the benefit of the prequels to work with, but I just feel like we get maybe glimmers of something more out of snoke that just go nowhere.
To me, the movie lacked heart. People can say what they want about Lucas, but he made the originals and prequels with his vision and wanted to tell a story. He honestly had no idea the original Star Wars would take off the way it did. It really feels like Disney is just making Star Wars movies, for the sake of Star Wars movies.
I laughed at most of the jokes, but rarely did I think it was appropriate. There is a constant tone and mood whiplash undercutting a supposed "dark" movie.
Legendary Snake I thought the jokes were fine when it came to tone. But I had to recover from whiplash every time they cut to a different scene. The cuts seemed to happen at the most inappropriate times.
Nerdy George Washington I'd agree about the cuts. The movie is constantly jumping around from scene to scene. It would have helped if the Finn and Rose stuff was cut down and more time was spent with Luke and Rey. Maybe flesh it out a little more.
My problem with the jokes is a lot of times they feel like they "interrupted" the flow rather than fitting into it. One joke I liked was at the end, with Luke dusting his coat off after being shot at, because it's brief, comedic-ally well timed, and even conveys information for the scene (that Luke was indeed caught by the shots, just not bothered). Compare to those bird things on Luke's planet, where they keep popping up and making noises in the middle of dramatic scenes, and the camera holds on them longer than it should during those bits.
I personally found this movie to be a massive disappointment. I was not a fan of how Luke was portrayed in the movie. Yes, I am one of those filthy EU fans who liked how Luke took the failures of the Jedi and reformed and improved the Jedi Order. Sue me. Luke felt very out of character. For someone who worked so hard to save and redeem his farther, a literal child murderer (and did a number of heinous and evil acts), because he felt the good in him, and defied Obi-Wan and Yoda to do it. Now he suddenly sees a possible vision of the future if Ben falls to the Dark Side and sees the Dark Side growing in him and decides the thing to do is literally murder his nephew in his sleep, is one of the biggest character heel turns I have ever seen. It makes no sense for the character whatsoever. So after he fails, which he did a lot in the original trilogy, he decides to abandon his friends and allies, go to a remote location where no one can find him (despite leaving a map on how to find him), and leaves the galaxy to fall to the Sith. Completely out of character. My problem with Rey is that everything she gains feels like she did not earn it. She defeated a trained Force user in a lightsaber duel without ever holding a lightsaber before, and could use the Force better than him. Then she goes to the planet Luke is on and instead of getting training from him, the son of the Force Jesus, she trains herself...wow. Then goes to the enemy and fights off a group of highly trained guards with ease despite having little to no training. When Luke tried to do that, he got his ass handed to him and his hand cut off. Rey does not really struggle and fail. I cannot get attached to her because she is just so perfect at everything. She can fly the Falcon better than Han and knows how to fix it better than Han despite never flying it before and never really being in it before. She also somehow knows how to speak Wookiee (Shyriiwook) and we never learn how she could possible know it. I could honestly go on with how I do not like her character. Speaking of character. I think it is astounding that Finn regressed as a character in the movie. At the end of TFA, instead of running, which is all he did in the movie, he turns around and confronts Kylo in a fight he knows he cannot win. He finally chooses to fight for someone else rather than run away. So, what is the first thing he does when he wakes up in TLJ? He tries to run away. He finally gets a good character building moment at the end of the movie, when he is about to sacrifice himself for the Resistance, but that gets stolen by Rose (who is a pretty terrible character). Kylo is actually one of the few characters who develops in this movie. We finally get more of a look at him and how he perseves things. I think him saying "Let go of the past. Kill it if you have too." is kind of stupid for someone who was trying way to hard to imitate Darth Vader the entire first movie (which was like a week before TLJ). But it is character growth. I felt the humor was too Marvelesk. Like it was not Star Wars humor. Star Wars humor tends to be more dark or sarcastic with quick little remarks as well as slap stick humor with the droids. The moment we started to get prank calls in Star Wars I just could not handle it. It was not funny and it was extremely cringey. The prequels were cringey, but mainly in their dialogue, not their humor (which TLJ has plenty of cringey dialogue too). Snoke was a pretty throwaway character. To be fair, the Emperor in the original trilogy was too. But TFA was building up Snoke to be is super powerful and important badass, while the Emperor just kind of showed up in Return. Though the Emperor actually showed some cunning by setting up the trap for the Rebellion. Snoke is just kind of there, talks a big game, uses some Force powers, then dies like a bitch (which the Emperor does too). The casino scene was pointless. It felt more like a sting at modern day politics rather than being a space opera (which is what Star Wars is). They literally dated the movie and just showed the politics in a hamfisted kind of way. Look at all of these rich people, they got rich because of weapons. Look at them beating these animals and poor little children! At least the code breaker, played by Del Toro, immediately destroyed that entire lesson Rose was trying to tell Finn by showing the ship owner sold weapons to both the First Order and Republic. There were also a lot of inconsistencies with the movie. Shielding was all over the place. We see that Leia's ship has shielding, but two missiles can somehow penetrate it and take out the hanger AND the bridge (one of the most well shielded parts of any ship)? And, you do not need shields to stop space from coming into pressurized areas, like the bombers, and hallway when Leia opened the door from being in space. Also, how do you run out of shields as you run out of fuel? You have a shield generator, which was always separate from the fuel you needed to fly the ship. I could honestly go on, but this post is already really big. I felt this movie was a massive disappointment. The prequels were better. At least the story in the prequels was somewhat consistent and had fantastic moments. Nothing really stood out to me in TLJ. Even when I watched a second time (first time with friends, the second time with family as they had not seen it yet).
I hope you don't mind if I include a bit about Rose in this post. Mainly how they bring up a 'Don't hurt the people you hate, save the people you love.' It seems very strange considering that move could have led to the rebels being slaughtered had Luke not shown up when he did. Not to mention that encourages a more defensive stance yet there are already so few rebels.
When Rose and Finn go to the casino thing I can't help but think of when Sazh and Vanille go to that theme park thing in ff13. I don't know why my brain does this.
Oh boy, I've got a lot to say after just getting back from seeing this movie. Will edit responses to points as they come up in this discussion. - The First Order not continuing the fighter assault because the ships are out of effective range of the Star Destroyers. Is it never a thing for Fighters to be prepared to take on cruisers without covering fire, whether some are designed for such or simply as a desperation tactic? For that matter, how did they not destroy the fleet if Kylo and his squad got close enough to blow up the bridge? That feels like it says something about how scattered/poorly armed the Resistance fleet was. - Holdo keeping Poe in the dark. Some people point out it's her not trying to play the hero, but Poe is not only a reasonably capable member of the fleet after the Dreadnought assault, but that battle also proves he's impulsive and/or not a strict adherent to orders, even from Leia. I feel like if not restraining him, telling him about that part of the plan would have helped so that he didn't fly off the handle and try something dangerous, which is what ended up happening with his coup and Finn's failed mission blowing the cover on their escape. And frankly, the way the character was portrayed up until that point, she didn't strike me as poor communicator so much as being a bit smug or dismissive of Poe, despite the fact that she just came to position and Poe has accomplishments under his belt given the Dreadnought he had destroyed, while it cost them their bombers, was supposed to be able to destroy a fleet on its own, ergo it was probably worth getting rid of before it followed them on the retreat. The reason Poe gets angry at Holdo's plan is because all he's privy to with that plan is "we're escaping in transports," no mention of a destination to be escaping to, ergo the plan has no end game and it's simply a matter of what way are they going to die, which is why Poe is willing to go with a near suicidal plan. Poe says "we're escaping in transports? Where would we go to not get blown up?" and Holdo's response should have been "to that base down there where we can send our distress signal," at which point Poe would have stayed out of the way at worst and probably tried to contribute at best, as he states when made privy to the plan "this might actually work" in a fairly positive/hopeful tone. - -I did like a lot of how Luke was characterized in the present, but my major problem with him is how he is in the flashbacks.- Even ignoring the idea of "Jedi" morality, I don't feel like Luke is the type of person who would let a kneejerk reaction get him as close to killing Ben as he did, like walking into his quarters and even igniting his light saber. I feel like if they wanted to explain this angle, it should have been played like "Kung Fu Panda" if you can believe me: in that movie, the villain Tai Lung's fall from grace is because he can see Shifu, his master and father figure, does not trust him enough to speak against another master's belief of darkness in his heart. I think an angle like that would work for Luke and Kylo Ren, have the rift grow out of distrust and inaction without having a catalyst that feels a little out of character for the former in terms of actions. - Snoke. My issue with him in this movie is admittedly more of a "whole series" context type of thing. Since Snoke is the guy who essentially overthrew the "happy ending" the rebels won by defeating the Empire, I kind of wish he had a bit more context or character. The Emperor is much less interesting when you take the OT on its own, but since it opens with the Empire already in control as the "norm," I just kind of can accept it on some level compared to Snoke overthrowing the status quo that was just established by the rebels overthrowing the Empire. In terms of his presence as this particular movie's villain, I think he's great, but I have hangups with how his depiction fits into the movie series (no say on EU material as I don't follow much outside the films and maybe one TV show).
Wonderful discussion My prediction for Episode IX that is almost too obvious. With Kylo's/The Studio's theme of killing the old: they're gonna kill Chewie by blowing up the Falcon. Guaranteed.
TheHopefulHero Definitely worse. Considering how films often treat a side character's death, Chewie will like shoot a tie fighter or something and then gets blown up immediately. (Though if the Porgs go down with him...)
I’m going to call it now. Kylo is going to die, and he is going to see Anakin’s force ghost in his dying breath. If he doesn’t die, then he will see him upon his defeat. Whether or not they use Christian, I feel Kylo will gaze upon Anakin at his hour of reckoning. Similar to how Luke saw Yoda at his.
That's the thing, I don't think he should be redeemed. His whole outlook is all about killing the past and letting it die. Convincing a guy like that to come back to your side would only work if A. All elements of his past (at this point, Leia and Chewy) are conveniently dead. Or B. He and Rey run off somewhere far away together. The moment this guy is in range of Chewy, you know the wookie is going to go berserk on him.
DarkLordXerinic The thing is, Kylo is actullay half a protagonist with Rey locking in is the other. Kylo realizes that the cycle will only continue if the Light and Dark are still fighting. You can use both sides of the force and balance. Kylo sees that both sides can be interchanged. Rey does not see that and it bugs me.
Kokoro My friend told me his theory that the force is trying to balance itself. Because there are only 2 Force wielders left, Kylo and Rey (barring Leia but she'll probably die at the beginning of 9), and both of them are leaning more toward the Dark and Light respectively, the Force is willing that both of them grow closer to the center so that no Force wielder is partial to any side, and that point of view paired with their enormous potential can end the war.
I foresee another time skip between TLJ and Episode IX, like another five to ten years maybe. - With Carrie Fisher's passing (RIP), it would give an excuse for why Leia wouldn't be there anymore - death from age and/or illness or something. - Give time for the Resistance and the First Order to rebuild and expand their forces. - If Lewis's theory about a second, improved Starkiller Base on Crait (or in general) actually happens, it would give time for it to be created, similar to the Death Star II. - Give Rey and Ben time to solidify their new positions, and Rey could probably succeed where Luke failed, and start a new Jedi Order, most likely involving one or more of those kids from the casino planet. Or hell, Ben could even depart from the whole "Rule of Two" thing and have a Dark Side-based order of his own.
Each Star Wars movie has had a large time skip. There were 3 years between each of the original movies (not just the release, but in the movie verse there is a 3 year time skip). There is a 10 year skip between Phantom and Attack and a 3 year skip between Attack and Revenge. There is like...maybe a week between Awakens and Last Jedi. They need to have an actual time skip.
WAY better than The Force Awakens. One of the only things I don't like is that Leia survived her ejection. They could've killed her off there and it wouldn't have change the movie much
Well they probably intended to have Leia play a bigger role in the next film before Carrie's unfortunate passing. I guess they could have edited things to make it look like she died on camera, but given that this was Carrie's last performance, they probably wanted to keep it intact.
I like them as characters, not the biggest fan of their part of the adventure. Roses actress really surprised me though. I believe this was her first huge role. Not bad for a first impression. I'm looking forward to her other roles outside of Star Wars myself.
Keelan Barron In all fairness I think that love is pretty one sided on Rose's part. Finn had this look on his face after the kiss that just screamed "Wait....what the fuck just happened?" He cares for her sure, but I don't think he actually returns her feelings.
Kind of shoehorned in, at least with Han and Leia's characters, we cared for them. I could care less for Rose's character. Should've let Finn sacrifice himself. His character did not have anything go for him at all in this movie, their subplot shouldn't have happened at all, added 30-45 minutes of eventual uselessness to a long film.
I think having Finn sacrifice himself for such a temporary victory would have been a true waste of his character, so I'm actually glad they kept him around. Didn't care for Rose's character though. While I admit his subplot was the weakest part of the film, it did allow him to grow as a person and fully commit to the cause of the resistance. So it wasn't worthless, but it could have been better paced.
TIE-class ships are actually deliberately designed to be shock troops that need to flit back and forth between their target and their mother ship, specifically to ensure that if any pilots try to desert they will run out of fuel very quickly; if the Empire/First Order don't manage to pick that ship back up then they're left drifting in deep space until they starve. As such, the TIEs have a short range from which they can be directly supported by larger-class ships, which is why there was an effective range to stay out of. I guess the targeting systems on those large ships are just lame enough to coincide with that range. As for Holdo deliberately withholding information from Poe... It makes sense, and yet I have trouble articulating why? The entire purpose of that conflict is to groom him to lead the Resistance one day, and it obviously works out in the end, but I do not quite see that cause and effect. It might be that his own hare-brained plan blowing up in his face did the heavy lifting in that arc. Either way, I had none of the issues with that character everybody else seems to. Really, after watching it twice in one day, I had almost none of the issues people have in general with the film. My bladder certainly disagreed with the length and the triplicate of climactic sequences, but... that's about it? Hard to tell right now how it does hold up to Empire. I DO know that it's going to age far better than VII, at least.
As it happens I literally just realized what it may be about Holdo's behavior that makes sense. Poe needs to learn to trust in a premeditated plan and stop banking so damn much on blind chance. Even when those bets pay off the cost is that good people die, and as his codebreaker scheme proves, that sort of seat-of-the-pants flying can just as well doom everyone. That's what Holdo, and by extension Leia's bullshit is about; he needs to trust that she has the whole thing figured out already, even when he doesn't know all the elements. I'm sure what went through Poe's mind when he finally heard about Planet Fanboy-Salt was something along the lines of "this would have all worked out in the end without making shit up as we go along." The fact that his own nonsense blew up in his face at the same time just helps sell the value of an actual strategy, as opposed to his big dumb stunts that are as reliable as a coin toss. It is the most mental exercise the film asks of you, I think, but since it's so clearly demonstrated that Poe basically ruined everything I conclude that it's a 100% conscious filmmaking decision.
People REALLY didn't like this movie, huh? I mean, I don't really give a shit about anything Star Wars related aside from the Clone Wars show, but people I know around me who love star wars HATED this movie,
I feel that this movie was very much a beat-for-beat mashup of Empire and Return that still manages to stumble in its steps while undermining lessons already learned. While I do appreciate the message of the roles of the teacher being passing on their wisdom AS WELL AS their folly to allow those who come after to surpass them, it unfortunatelly feels like Luke was regressed as a character for that purpose. Nonetheless, the movie has some extremely poignant scenes that I made sure to burn firmly into my mind. Seeing Luke and Leia together on-screen for the last time along with the elegant way the binary sunsets scene was echoed beautifully as Luke ended his life while peacefully beholding the same sunset he saw all those years ago during a scene that once represented his inner wistful turmoil will always speak to my heart.
In terms of the Admiral's decision not to tell Po, this is what my dad, who used to be in the navy, said; "Admirals never tell that kind of information to their captains, what if they were bugged, what if they were captured, what if they were a turn coat? That information is need to know for a reason, and soldiers are never told more than they need to know. Soldiers are expected to trust their COs, do as they are told, and not ask questions. For that matter, Po is a war criminal who should be court martialed . Not only did he mutiny, his plan tipped of the enemy that they were in transport ships, which got like, 90% of the rebellion killed."
Aspiring Creator That was what I took from it actually. People seem to overlook that Holdo doesn't know Poe well at all. I think she saw what Poe did in the dreadnought attack and said to herself "Oh so he's one of those pilots who would always choose the fight hard and die proud option over the retreat to fight another day option....better not tell him that my plan is to retreat and live to fight another day then. There's no way he'd go for it."
The problem with this line of thinking is it's all well and good when you aren't hours away from death, but her not telling anyone is kinda weird when it's a situation that anyone who knows the full scope of the situation for all intents and purposes thinks that everyone on board is going to just die, this could create alot of frustration and tension which could lead to a mutiny(which it does). She could've at least told him that there was more to the plan than she lets on without giving details just to get him off her back, but instead she's just sorta passive aggressive toward him the whole time.
32:44 how did you not point out the obvious one, during th really dramatic scene that was going to happen "Why did you hat- . . .can you put a shit on . .. why did you hate your father"
I think the reason R2D2 C3PO and Chewi didnt participate much is the theme of the movie, Let the past die, kill it if you have to. Leaving the new comers take the weight of their actions. I think is fine.
All I'll say is I'm VERY interested to see how this does during it's second weekend. Because this movie has been polarizing as fuck online and bad word of mouth can have a big impact on a movie even when it has a great opening weekend.
There were some parts I loved. The Rei and Luke training the talk with yoda the battle on that sand planet. The Dark hole part was kind of weird I thought there was gonna be some call back to episode 5. With the whole Luke wandering into the forest. Akin to Rei defeating Kylo ,but it show's rei's head. I thought it was a fun movie. But I also thought Leia was going to die in this movie .
Seriously, though, if someone uses the phrase "Mary Sue" to describe issues with the movie, without any explanation or alternatives to what that someone could have done to NOT be this, I'm going to assume people decided that Anakin being born like Jesus is somehow better written.
I've had people claim the prequels were better movies, so yeah you can understand why i dismissed their arguments. I really couldn't see their reasoning as anything but... well the easy assumption.
Leaving the theatres I loved it to bits. Thinking on it now, I realize not much actually happened for a lot of this movie, but I do like Rey and Kylo's relationship, and I enjoy Poe a lot, so overall it's a great movie with some flaws in my eyes. Definitely would like to see it again to further my thoughts, but also cause I had a lot of fun watching it.
Honestly, while I thought the Leia in space thing was equal parts hilarious in badass, it was...awkward when I realized what was going on. When we cut to her silently in space...I thought that was it. I thought they changed the story of Episode 8 right there because of Carrie passing, that or had the perfect excuse for it already. Focusing on her body so much, I was thinking "yup, okay, they edited this sequence to have an in-movie send-off for Carrie Fisher passing away cause we're looking at this so much knowing she's gone in real life" and when I see her fingers twitch I go ".................oh. Uh...they didn't change their movie at all. She might live. H-how are they going to let her still live." That short rambling was how that weird thought process went down. They made a scene that looked like a post-production send-off of Carrie Fisher...but it's not and now she's still alive, so now I'm just nervous as fuck wondering if they're going to re-kill her somewhere later in the movie.
The only critique that I have with the new trilogy is that... can we please go to some planets that we know of? To put it simply, the new trilogy has not attached itself to any planets from the original or prequel trilogy... like, is Rhen Var even an actual place, in canon, anymore? The only criticism I have for TLJ is that it tries to reverse ESB (chase sequence leading to a planet battle, instead of a planet battle leading to a chase sequence; at the same time, force-sensitive character gets trained by Jedi who existed in the last trilogy) and, given that the two movies are similarly open ended, I hope that they use this to their best advantage (maybe bring up some old forces... as an example, Naboo would probably be against the concept of being a tourist destination under rule once again) and can capitalize on it as to not waste it (maybe Rey finds other force-sensitives, maybe Kylo does the same, and we have a “jedi” vs “sith” skirmish in SW9?)
I feel the opposite, honestly. Constantly going to planets that are familiar bugs the ever-living shit out of me. It's a big galaxy. Show me more of it, not the same damn planets again! If it were an expansive gaming experience like KotOR there would be time/room for doing both but if we're constrained to a two-hour movie I'd rather have new planets. - Lewis
Overall. I really liked the movie despite some pretty bad flaws. I give it 4 Wookie Fried Porgs out of 5. I still need to watch it a few more times to get a final opinion. So, I'll redo this for when then commentary comes around.
Hm. That's the second time I've heard this compared to Dark Knight Rises and I can agree in that the more I think about Last Jedi, the more holes I tend to find. Though I can't say I'm entirely looking forward to Episode IX, even more so because Abrams is coming back to direct.
It wasn't the worst movie I've ever seen but as a Star Wars movie it was about on par with the prequels. The whole thing felt really anticlimactic, like it was trying to be subversive for the sake of being subversive without any desire to make a solid story. It also makes Episode 7 retroactively worse now that we know so many of it's biggest mysteries are a load of nothing. Also where is it meant to go from here? It's just going to be Rey vs. Kylo again, there was no narrative hook and I've lost all desire to see episode 9. So while not the worst of the series (Episode II still has that honour) it's pretty much the death of it in my eyes.
I'll say it right now: anyone who claims this movie is on par with the prequels is being hyperbolic. The prequels have far worse problems narratively and a lot of problems as just plain old cinematic productions on top of that. It's the equivalent of claiming that Sonic Lost World is "on par" with Sonic '06. It's not. You might not like it (I certainly don't), but it's just not. - Lewis
Perhaps that's too harsh so I retract that statement about the prequels. TLJ was perhaps the greatest disappointment in the series since episode 2, at least for me personally and a whole bunch of other movie goers. I think some of the fan theories out there were more interesting than what we actually got but hey at least it was pretty to look at.
There will always be a more interesting fan theory, because there will always be too many fan theories for the law of averages to not pan out that way. The funky thing about that is if the fan theory ends up being correct (as with Severus Snape), people will accuse the storyteller of stealing the idea from the theory. So that's kind of a damned-if-you-do problem. - Lewis
That's the sad thing. I've talked to quite a few people who said they'd rather watch Episode 1 and 2. Then I just look at them like "Are you FUCKING INSANE!?"
Lonnie Dearing Episode 1 had trade negotiations, senate meetings and space NASCAR. Episode 2 was largely about a love story that never once felt genuine throughout the entire run of the film. It had an awesome couple of battle scenes at the end, but that doesn't redeem the rest of the film. Besides, Last Jedi did show how powerful Jedi were. There's more to power than using a Lightsaber.
I disagree about Luke being the best part. For me he's the worst. While I do enjoy the performance of Mark Hamill. Luke's character is all wrong. He goes from a man who goes on a mission to the Death Star to redeem his father, the second most evil person in the galaxy, to a guy who was willing to kill his only nephew and the son of his best friend and sister simply because he sensed a little darkness? Bullshit. Also Snoke's death was underwhelming and unearned. Connecting brain's across the galaxy yet he can't notice a lightsaber rotating on his right hand side. Leia flying like superman through space is dumb as well. Personally these are just a few problems I have and there are loads more. I think the Force Awakens, a film I thought nothing much of, is better.
+Ace Except Luke himself said that he sensed A TON of darkness in Ben. Like a ridiculous amount of it. To the point where Ben was just a ticking time bomb waiting to go off. Luke did EXACTLY what the old Jedi Order would do. Kill him before he becomes a problem, the “Mace Windu Solution” as I like to call it. Luke was very drunk off his hero reputation at that point in time. That’s why he hates himself so much in this movie. It’s the exact same reason Yoda exiled himself in the original trilogy. It’s a very believable arc for his character to go through. He was naive enough to believe he could stop Ben before he became a problem. Because in his mind, “I’m the guy who blew up the Death Star, defeated Darth Vader, and single-handedly revived the Jedi Order. Nothing can stop me now.”
How to tell when someone wasn't paying attention to the movie. He wasn't "willing to kill" Ben. He had a flashing moment of kneejerk weakness, as he explains to Rey, and as it passed and he felt ashamed, Ben woke up and lashed out. So it goes that this fleeting moment of weakness jump-started Kylo Ren's turn to the dark side. That's something almost anyone in his situation would have done, no matter how good they were. - Lewis
Overall I would give it a 7/10. A lot of scenes I love (the x wing fight at the start, the destruction of the gambling city, the Luke/Ray stuff, the fight in the throne room with Kylo and Ray teaming up, Luke's stand-off against the empire, the dash at the end towards the cannon, the Po stuff, the cruiser light speeding through the empire ship, Yoda etc) but there's stuff I didn't like (killing Captain Phasma again, Lea using the force to get back to the ship, Finn and Rose, the introduction of roses' sister only to kill her off, the kids at the end, the way Luke died at the end instead of being killed by Kylo, the sword fight between kylo and luke that they could've done so much more with, etc). Why not have Kylo kill Luke? That way heading into the 3rd movie, we can be like "Okay this is the bastard that killed both Han and Luke, he is a threat". The whole Rose and her sister thing was ultimately pointless, it would've been better if they introduced her in the force awakens, and then killed her off. Luke would've been so much cooler if that wasn't a force projection. And I was actually liking Snoak, just wish they had Kylo kill him off in the 3rd movie, not this one. I think I'm around the Johnny-Ryan area in terms of this movie.
what i hate about this movie is what it did to Luke Original Trilogy: "Im going to save you father" Episode 8: "If you have bad dreams i'll lightsaber your ass" A complete 180 of a character, there are even interviews with Mark Hamill about how he has no idea why did they change his character so much. A big middle finger to anyone who loved the OT. It was probably the last Star Wars movie i paid for in my life. Sorry Disney, im gonna keep to my 1-6, even if half of those isnt even that great.
A fleeting moment of weakness that was badly-timed and which Ben happened to wake up in time to see and lash out in response to is not "I'll lightsaber your ass." Jesus Christ. It's like half the people in these comments took a bathroom break during the scene where Rey demanded the truth and Luke gave it to her. - Lewis
BrainScratch Commentaries Um he turned the lightsaber on so yeah he did essentially make it seem that way . This is the same man who went out of his way to save a man who was responsible for committing mass genocide on god knows how many planets and yet with Kylo all it takes is just a hint of the dark side and he jumps straight to I gotta kill him ?
Pher Ashun Oh yeah because getting a prosthetic hand cut off is clearly the same as killing someone and moron there was a reason why he did that here he just smelled something that stunk and activated his weapon which only a moron would think someone couldn’t hear . Your point does nothing to back up your point of view .
Pher Ashun Vader was responsible for multiple accounts of planetary genocide and he had personally killed likely 100’s of people whereas Ren at that time had done nothing but show weakness in the dark side . So a murdering father can be forgiven but not your nephew who’s only wrong doing was showing weakness in controlling the dark side can’t be forgiven ? That’s fucking bullshit
As much as I want obi wan back (and in his own movie, new adventures of old ben but lets not get into that again) that scene wouldnt have worked with ben and has yoda most in character that hes been since return of the jedi as the wise quirky "black mage" type force user
I have to respectfully disagree. Granted I read up on a lot of the extra stuff for TFU. Lead to me giving Galen a yellow lightsaber when he turned good as that was the color his mother used.
How do I say it, this movie felt like it fired almost all the ammo that TFA setup. *Spoiler rant* Why didn't the purple hair general just state that since the new order traced them that they believe that there is a spy/tracker among them from previous battles? Why didn't they bail on the plan when they grab someone straight from the jail as a code breaker from a planet that is mainly supports the Order? At times it had me expecting more of scenes that never played out. Like evil BB-8 & the mutiny made non-sense? Why the open comms when New Order ships are straight up there to kill all present? How Finn managed to drag Rose like a few miles all the way back without being stepped/blasted by the AT-AT? How the First Order didn't bring a single infantry when the AT-AT are pure ground support tanks... and one ship somehow manages to drag away over like 100+ ships when they likely have 100+ more? Why they didn't fire the chibi death star cannon again, hell use it to fire on both Luke and the Resistance? Whats left outside of killing Leia and Chewy now?
