This your standard reminder that the canon dimensions of Stargate ships were published by an ancillary magazine and make pretty much no sense at all, they are however entirely canon, so as a matter of policy that's what we publish on Spacedock. - Dan
@@mattwho81 At least some did, the F-302 that O'Neill and Carter used to underfly Anubis' Motherships shields was the main production model. It was the prototype X-302 that was destroyed with the gate. ^^
My favorite thing about these is that you could see the development curve, and can believe the reverse engineering employed. It fits into the story well.
Daniel has mentioned that before in previous videos. You can look at pretty much any bit of technology and say, "I remember the episode where they found the thing that stuff is made out of." That remains one of the coolest things about the series.
@@edison700 Ikr, especially how their first one is really O'Niell's power booster that it takes two Carter's from different universes working with lessons learned from the Orban to get it working again then followed by the MK 1 and 2. They kind of drop the ball in places but it's only because they do so well generally it stands out when they don't.
@@davidbarre7390 The shows at its best when it does that with both the tech and the characters, for instance Major Lorne from SGA was first seen in Enemy Mine assigned to the Naquada operation on that Una's planet.
One of the things I love about the SG-1 series is how they managed to show a consistent progression in humanity's adaptation of alien technology, from the simple Naquadah generators on up to advanced carrier/cruisers.
While making up increasingly unbelievable excuses as to why the world at large remains unaware of these new developments. Before dropping the subject altogether.
You know, after all this time...Stargate is still one of my favorite shows. The characters, the setting, and most importantly...the technology that they displayed. I remember when they showed the F-302 in it's first engagement...I was kind of blown away. Mostly because SG-1 always relied on ground infiltrations and such methods. To see them going head to head with the Goa'uld with their own vehicles just put a smile on my face.
Can I also say, “Tauri” is one of the coolest monikers for Humanity in fiction. It means, “First Ones.” So much more badass than “Terrans” or “Earthers.”
@@drksideofthewal Same with Atlanteans in SGA (They call them like that in my language I dunno of its the same in english) Do people from Pegasus call the expedision Lanteans or what?
@@honzasenbauer612 It's been a while since I watched, but I don't recall SGA identifying themselves as Lanteans. They do take to identifying Atlanteans and related tech as 'Lantean'.
This is one of the main reasons SG1 is still among my favorite scifi shows. It showed steady progression of tech and not just magically become overpowered. I remember screaming out during the Antartica battle when the Prometheus and the flight of 302s showed up in force for the very first time.
Absolute top 10 scene. In my opinion, the Antarctica battle is THE defacto point signifying the Tauri weren't some mildly notable mosquito trying to push itself into the galaxy's grown-up business. That battle showed that they are a bonafide superpower capable of dealing and taking shit from the other spacefaring races.
The best thing about the SG1 series was watching the teams acquire, adapt and incorporate alien tech they retrieved over the course of the series into Earth’s defenses. Made me really feel like the SGC earned their victories. Wish more sci-fi shows were like that
The other nice thing was that they showed the Earth-based forces _thought_ about what they were gaining access to and didn't simply switch to the shiny new toys. The prime example was firearms. They had access to all sorts of energy weapons but the majority they encountered didn't provide much of an advantage over the normal ballistic firearms they used, and often were tactically worse, and so they felt no need to switch.
I had a dream once that I was a interstellar being million times stronger than a ascended being hundreds of millions years old, and I woke up just in time to help sg command in the beginning of it to help it flourish into a power, I helped get all the gau'ld and Ori ships and Anubis fleet too for "free" to them and helped the Atlantis group get the replicators Aurora battleships all 30 or so and the planet too having another city ship to use with hundreds of zpm cores and jumpers to and all the drone they need and helped them get there hands on the whole wraith fleet of the Galaxy and gave them a blueprint to make a hand device to connect to wraith ships to command meaning earth has a few hundreds ships to command and hundreds of thousands of fighters etc to use to expand , explore their boundaries colonizing other worlds easily and I was proud to help assist them grow and prosper lol 😎
@@paulrasmussen8953 thing is Enterprise doesn't look like anything humanity will ever build. It looks like a pleasure ship instead of a Science/War vessel. In fact, it's been said.that any ship we build in real life will be butt ugly as there's no need for aerodynamics and focus will be much more on protecting people from harmful space radiation.
F-302 kicking the butts of more advanced races with good old fashioned human fire power and ingenuity. Honestly I wish someone with great skills would make a serious where they take I conic ships big and small and put them against each other.
Personally, its up there (at least in design and creativity) with the X-wing, StarFury, and the Viper. Some really great scifi designs overall, and personally speaking, the 302 is my favorite.
Star wars is currently a dumpster fire due to Disney. Warhammer 40k's is returning back to the dark thanks to the removal of the fan animation channels by GW who happily takes down the fantastic videos that's like free advertising.
i love that stargate does a good job of creating a setting where starfighters are actually practical and balance with capital ships without it being overblown or unbelievable
The problem with Star Wars is that in theory capital ships are this ridiculous powerhouse capable of glassing planets, yet we are always shown fighters doing most of the damage aside from that scene in rogue one.
@@ancaplanaoriginal5303 not a star wars fan, but from what i've seen, you're right, star destroyers always seem to be barely functional and it doesn't make any sense, especially when supposedly they're not even dedicated carriers, they're mainline combatants
@@ancaplanaoriginal5303 Unfortunately a lot of the orginal trilogy space ships were just designed in a way that everything could be done with lower budgets, so the starfighters are the majority of the fighting force allowing them to make much smaller models and save on special effects (especially the first movie). Combined with George Lucas wanting space combat to resemble dog fights from WW2 what we get is a starfighter heavy universe, the capital ships in the prequel era and in the expanded original trilogy era (Rebels Tv show) all introduce new designs that instead focus on everyone having carriers as a larger presence in their fleets. Both the Republic and Separatist almost entirely compose their fleets of carriers and the Imperials now rely more on the Quazar class cariers and Gozanti Frigates to carry and deploy tie squadrons, much more believable than the empire just throwing star destroyers everywhere XD
I guess someone messed up the units for the wingspan and wrote meter instead of feet. 55feet = 16,76m . Makes much more sense. The F.22 has a wingspan of 44 ft 6 in.
Embodies the coolest part of SG1 for me: humanity existing in a unique technological niche, applying their homegrown ingenuity and engineering skills to coopt and eventually outstrip alien technologies
It seems that most of the other species in the series did very little in the way of innovation, and just copied and improved on things, when earth was using a combination of this copy/improve along with learning and innovating.
need to buy the dvds again, lost them on a move years back, saddest day!, still can watch SGA on FX, but SG-1 and universe are hard to find on cable. (im from Argentina)
The way the SGC gradually upgrades asit gets tech from salvage, theft or trade reminds me how the progression curve for the original X-Com games. Start with relatively weak projectile guns, and gradually learn how to make the plasma guns the enemy get from the start. Love it.
There's actually a really good old-Xcom and SG-1 crossover fanfic "XSGCOM", where XCOM and the SGC merge (with plenty of tension between the reasonable explorers of the SGC, and the roided-up battle-junkies of XCOM), Elerium is a unique Isotope of Naquadah, and the Firestorm replaces the X-301 the moment XCOM's engineers learn it's just a modified deathglider
I always love these things especially when they were in space battles it always seemed like somewhat of a realistic fighter but then again Babylon 5 is more realistic with its fighter but that's because it doesn't have inertial dampeners
@@michaelandreipalon359 BSG Viper is also a good fighter that could work in real life. Its only limitation is that Space fighters are actually pretty stupid idea in real life, but the Viper could actually operate in atmosphere pretty good compared to the Starfury. Yes I know there is a Starfury capable of atmospheric flight, but those are two different fighters. Viper is just one ship capable of both
Last year and into this year I watched episodes of SG1, Atlantis and Universe back to back in order of series, except for when SG1 and Atlantis moved around each other. It's a real shame the way it ended how it did. I would have loved to have heard more stories from Pegasus and Destiney.
Universe was definitely a different take, but I enjoyed it. Granted there could have been alot less backstory for everyone, especially when it did little to move the plot along.
This reminds me of how amazing this series was...all spawned from a movie with James Spader and Kurt Russell! What's funny is how the first seasons included keeping this whole ordeal a SECRET lol! The fact that it was happening in our real world made it so fascinating. I wish they could continue making episodes, or maybe another epic movie. Stargate SG-1 and Babylon 5 should be introduced to a new generation....
Did you see the episode where Martin Lloyd, a human looking alien who lost his memory of being alien, creates a tv show called “Wormhole Extreme”; which parallels the reality of the Star Gate Program in the show? At one point, Carter asks why the Air Force didn’t shut down the tv show; given that it depicts a top secret program, and one of the other characters answers that it provides plausible deniability for the Star Gate Program; if anything about the Star Gate gets out, it can be deflected as being from the tv show. I can’t help but wonder if SG1 provides the same plausible deniability in real life. Is art imitating life within art imitating life? Gotta wonder sometimes.
You can tell this is fiction because a new weapons system was brought from the drawing board to operational status in just a couple of years, instead of 30+ years of development followed by being cancelled at the last minute. :)
Area 51 and skunk works are very efficient at pumping up projects, see the U-2, A-12, YF-12 and SR-71 projects, the problem is on the senate-lobby-contractors side.
You're forgetting that it was carried out under wartime conditions. Plenty of new weapons systems pulled that off during WWII. Nothing like an existential threat to cut through the red tape and BS
3 года назад
A 302 is what happens when you don't treat your pilots (and fighter planes) as a disposable resource.
"...a powerful tool in the arsenal of the Tau'ri." _Shows the F-302 that got hijacked by a wraith virus._ Yeah, that one's definitely in the arsenal of the Tau'ri...
Always love Star Gate content. The Tau’ri definitely had the coolest ships in all three shows, (except Prometheus, that thing was ugly as sin.) Will Spacedock ever consider doing some Futurama ships like the Nimbus? The comedy centric focus probably means there is a lack of good info about it, but if anyone can put together a serious breakdown, it’s Spacedock.
Maybe, but the interior of the Prometheus would have made a good level design in Unreal Tournament, especially if they made the bots look life Jaffa and the only weapons were the Jaffa staffs and Zat guns, plus the assault rifles used by the Air Force/SG1 personnel. Come to think of it, SGC/Cheyenne Mtn. Complex would make a good FPS level, too. 😄
Prometheus wasn’t meant to be pretty, Prometheus was designed to do a job and it did until the Ori showed up, but by that point it was being replaced anyway so it did exactly what we needed it to.
Well, if I remember correctly, many early models of used vehicles (especially World War I) were not beautiful objects to the human eye. In addition, all that could be improved in the Prometheus was for the bc-304, to be the first of its class the bc-303 did its job well and endured the fights that were presented to it.
ah the F302, a good mix of alien but human at the same time. One thing I never understood was, if they we're building them from scratch, why bother with the down shaped wing? it lowers ground clearance or requires very long landing gear struts. Just seems like unless it made it totally unable to fly, a flattened profile would have been better. Thanks for the video !
It probably had physical reasons for it, the overpressure created on the intrados may have helped to keep the plasma away from the frame during hard reentrys, cheaper than a TPS and it has been theorized by NASA.
It would stand to reason that at the current time setting the Tau'ri could get some death gliders from the Free Jaffa and reverse engineer the propulsion systems more safely with the help of the Tok'Ra.
i allways thought,the Free Jaffa Nation coudl spare some ships. they coudl make a deal with Earth,set a price,say 3 Billion for a Hatak and 1 Billion for an alkesh. and then the Jaffa can use this Money togo shopping on earth. Agricultural mashines, some industrial stuff, i mean,they still live in tents,they coudl use all kidn of stuff,from bulldozers to concretmills or waterpumps. and earth could refit 3 hataks,as big transportvessels.not everythign fits through the gate.
@@aikrichter5403 I mean, they could skip the money and trade in raw goods/resources, but I agree on the equitable trade in medical and agricultural knowledge in 3xchange for captured Goa'Uld military tech. Hell, the Free Jaffa could even just allow the Tau'Ri access to their manufacturing base in order to mass produce safe F301s and improved F302s as well as F303s and F304s for pennies on the dollar. It also occurred to me that the cessation of conflict with the followers of the Ori post the Ark of Truth would make it safe for the F304 line of ships to fully utilize their Asgard Core systems after all, the only major weakness of the USAF Odyssey circa the SG-1 finale episode Unending was numerical. That being said, I would genuinely enjoy a short film of Free Jaffa on Earth going shopping with SGC issued credit cards.😁
@@UncleMikeDrop the money has the advantage that they could have a bankaccount,and teams of jaffa come over via gate and check the markets (and online) what they can get. or order custom build devices. ordering stuff via gouvernment-officals is not differentiated enough. also, by making it with money, they pump the money into the local economy,allways a nice booster.
Great presentation! I really enjoy your channel's content and wonder if you've considered covering the Veritech fighter aircraft from classic Robotech?
Matching the military capabilities of the Goa'Uld is not particularly difficult. The Goa'Uld essentially ended up with a stagnated military force built for fear and control rather than military combat, which is frankly nicely portrayed in SG-1. They had no real need for warfare anymore, they controlled "everything", there was no one to challenge them. And that was their undoing. The Goa'Uld weaponry is powerful, but built for shock and effect... while Tau'ri weapons are built for maximum tactical potential, like a gun... Don't need to fire an imprecise fearful weapon if you can just murder your target :P For SG-1 it makes perfect sense that the Goa'uld arewhat they are, use what they use... which is a nice change of pace compared to other Sci-Fi shows. They are also arrogant and stubborn.
"This, is a weapon of terror. It's made to intimidate the enemy." Casually tosses it aside and holds up P90 "This, is a weapon of war. It's made to kill your enemy."
When you're fighting a strategic, guerrilla war against a technologically superior, but tactically inferior foe, take their stuff and see what you can do.
@@hoojiwana I think he meant reverse engineering the trchnology into something usable. Not that it matter since good old kinetics were basically just as effective if not more
Earth weapons where in most cases superior to goauld weapons. Most of the focus was around material and propulsion advancements. With a heavy focus on Naquida.
You know, on the surface the X-301 was a complete disaster and failure, but it should be acknowledged that it was a necessary step. The lessons learned from the X-301, especially the mistakes, were what allowed the development of the 302 to be possible.
I love this design, although the wing tips are to close to the ground, and on landing they would actually hit the ground, the wing angle needed to be reduced slightly, or maybe have the last foot of the wing flare upward?
One thing I love about the Tauri ships and fighters is the Missles. Pre-asgard beam weapons the missiles were a huge lackluster offensive weapon for the x303 and the BC-304 BUT what essentially made the Tauri capital ships undergunned gave their fighters an advantage no other race had. While the F302 wasn't the fastest and the inertia dampeners only worked 90% efficiency the missiles gave them the biggest edge over any other fighter. It basically made the F-302 the best fighter interceptor in the stargate universe
I'm pretty sure that only the X-302 prototype had a hyperdrive. It was dropped from F-302 production because they couldn't get it to work beyond short jumps.
A contender for the F-302 would have to be the SA-43 Hammerhead from Space: Above and Beyond. Similar foward-swept wing planform, comparable weapons technology, but used RCS for attitude control rather than inertial damping.
this is pure speculation on my part but, I'd probably guess that the railgun fire was easier to show in CGI than the missiles which would provide a doylist explanation for the relative lack of missile
@@hummerskickass being superior to a deathglider isn’t that difficult. If it’s missiles are to be it’s primary striking weapon, it at most can fire them in two pairs before needing a reload. Modern and historical RL carry FAR more missiles
It went for bigger missiles that could threaten capital ships instead of more missiles for taking out other fighters. Two of its four missiles were big enough to be capital ship torpedoes, ffs
I don't care if the published information makes no sense. Actually, I do, I just don't let it bother me. Still, a cool bird, huh? :) One of the things I liked about SG-1 is that they developed the world as the show went on. 22 m= 72 ft. 55 m= 180 ft. 30 km= 98,000 ft. A NATO squadron is 7 to 16 planes and 100 to 300 personel. A flight is 4 to 6 planes. Do you think they mean a wing or a group?
This, is a weapon of terror. It's made to intimidate the enemy. This, is a weapon of war. It's made to kill your enemy... We've used it to win pretty much every skirmish we've had with the Gould and the Jaffa who serve them. Those of you who've gone up against us and survived, and you know who you are, you know what I'm talking about.
ah yes, the worst thing Hollywood has done in sci-fi, thinking you can maneuver a ship in space like a fighter jet. Not happening, control surfaces are useless.
I like how the usual sci if human thing to do is just steal alien tech and usually make it better in some amazingly pragmatic way. * I mean grapple hook tech to secure yourself to any surface, including asteroids to pull a jango fett? Amazing
I wish the short range hyperdrive move was used more in the series. Imagine jumping past a swarm of Wraith Darts to deliver a missile payload to the Hive.
I don’t think they kept the device in the mass production model due to the issues it had. (At least that’s probably the in universe explanation for them never using it again)
Im my huble opinion, Stargate is the series which takes the tv trope of "boxy, gray and angular" space ship and does it well. It makes sense, the military is utilitarian first, design later. Who needs to waste money on painting the trinium that makes the frame of the craft? let the gray (un)shine.
My parter ad I have been rewatching this show from the start the past few months and I gotta say, I really did not appreciate as a kid the kind of thought the writers were putting into this show's arc in an era still almost universally doing episodic TV. Not only is there this really great, paced progression of humanity's role and technology over the course of it, they straight up allude to things way in advance of unveiling them onscreen. There's stuff about the X301-304 dropped in dialogue and even on screen upwards of a season and a half in advance of their actual introduction. They also did a lot of that narratively too, eg, the Replicators or even that slow, creeping introduction of McKay (who is borderline insufferable earlier on, holy crap) Anyway, blah blah blah Stargate is wildly underrated as a show and an excellent video as usual, Spacedock!
Was also gonna comment on the tech progression as a major highlight but I think everyone else has it already. Though now I kinda just wana rewatch SG1 again.
One thing I don't get with the F-302... why did they go with the same form factor as the Death Glider? While the design isn't necessarily bad (it has a TON of wing area for its size, giving it good agility), it does give the fighter some awkward flight characteristics in atmospheric flight, particularly a tendency to spin out of control along the horizontal perpendicular axis in a stall. This is an issue the B2 Spirit and other flying wing designs have as well, but most flying wings aren't expected to fly close to stall angle on a regular basis. The Death Glider doesn't have to deal with this because it doesn't seem to rely on aerodynamic flight principles. Another issue is the excessive wingspan, making it cumbersome for carrier operations. I get that it's supposed to be based on reverse-engineered Goa'uld tech with just a bit of Asgard tech thrown in for good measure, but that doesn't mean the craft has to _look_ like a Death Glider. I've sometimes jokingly referred to the F-302 as the "Freedom Glider".
Although the F-302 fighter/interceptor (More precisely is Starfighter) missiles carry was less (4 AIM-120 modified) and the backup arieal weapon was the railgun, but if they're really exist and really had made it most likely it will outperformed all world fighters (Which make it the most strongest fighter ever builded). Only if there's really have a alternative energy source...
1:27 Wait, what? Frequency Modulation. Technology that could penetrate shields? When the heck did they get that this early? What am I forgetting? 3:45 Reteograde/Reverse. Dang, never saw those before, wow.
While I loved the 302 in Stargate canon, I always felt it was somewhat limited and for a fan-based concept developed an "upgrade" I'd designated as the F-305 Gryphon; a fighter/bomber also able to serve as a short-range shuttle. Would have been nice to see a shuttle-like craft akin to either the Tel'tac, Wraith Darts, or Ori fighters used by Stargate/Homeworld Command
Here's one thing I don't get: why AMRAAMS? In the movie they're very clearly using the AIM-120s as dogfighting missiles, even though they really aren't too great in that role. Surely using something like an AIM-9, maybe with a radar seeker would be far better as they're actual dogfighting missiles.
First of all, the movie was really good but the TV show was so bad. The show was full of Flaws, Hypocrisy, Fantasy rather than Science fiction. And really? An alien race can travel to earth using hyperspace only have a glider flies like a jet fighter? You would think they will have a better craft, like anti gravity and force field. See how all the flying saucers in real life fly? They made 90 degrees turn and disappears no fighter jet can chase them. That is why this TV show is so bad, not sure who was their Science advisor but this person definitely know nothing about science fiction or her/his scientific knowledge is very limited. When you can travel in hyper space means you can travel in time, so I don't really see why an alien race mastered interstellar travel can't even travel in time. Furthermore, how can an alien race with technological advance and have experienced with human biology can't just send a VIRUS and wipe out human race instead of all this fighting, shooting. I think this TV show is a result of lazy writers. If you want to go into technological stuffs make sure you get it right. Not some fantasies, you just made up out of thin air. This is why I prefer UFO stuffs is more realistic than these TV shows ( One thing for sure, thus TV show definitely was written by human, yoy can see errors everywhere; on the other hand, Bob Lazar story is very credible in both scientific and story lines).
Still, I kind of didn´t get why they removed energy weapons. I mean okay missiles. But there is actual limit for those . And yes there some railguns, those are limited too. Which means their combat ability is dropping in prolonged fight (And they were not that heavily armed to begin with. Just 4 missiles.) while deathgliders are consistent. Why not just let staff or any other energy weapon for backup?
I kinda get the impression that whoever created this aircraft had at least SOME understanding of efficienct/effective airframe design - as the reverse delta wing shape would (at least: som'ewhat) counteract the inherent instability of the anhedral wing angle. It would allow the excess air pressure to bleed-off at the outer edges of the wings instead of just balling up under the body and inner wing area. But, maybe I don't even know what the hell I'm talking about...
