I mean you’re not wrong, they don’t wipe out your race, though they can if they wanted to. But they still turn worlds into farm lands and the people into farmers, you know if you didn’t die. I suppose it’s like the Qun from Dragon Age (I’ve been watch a ton of lore videos recently). Your treated well enough but at the end of the day your still a slave.
We met the Tollans very early on in the series when the Goa'uld were said to have hyperdrives about ten times the speed of light. That is still really slow for sci-fi., too slow really. The writers realized they goofed and wrote in that the Goa'uld were working on advancing the tech they had, which is how the attack on Earth would be able to happen so much sooner than expected at the end of Season 1. With that in mind, I think it's safe to assume the speed of Tollan hyperdrives was also a bit of a goof and that they really had something slightly better than the Goauld did during the attack on Earth, which was still really slow compared to the Asgard, but relatively decent speed for the Milky Way. I think that you're underestimating the Asgard tho. One ship from the Asgard would be able to wipe out the collective populations of both the Tollans and the Aschen. The only reason they have difficulty with the Replicators is that those devious little bots eat their technology and assimilate it, using their efficiency to enhance it beyond what the Asgard themselves are able to do. That said, they probably wouldn't be able to send a ship anyway, so it's a moot point lol.
To compress Jupiter into a star requires compression not mass. In the show they were very clearly using some form of technological Projector to compress Jupiter not ad mass. There's also no indication that they were going to take those projectors away after it achieved nuclear fusion. In the show they were effectively transforming Jupiter into a giant nuclear fusion reactor floating in space. Artificial Nuclear fusion reactor At that.
according to the original timeline of the aschen, they defeated the gould in roughly 8 years or so. but i think it was due to strategy the aschen like to play the long game when it comes to defeating the opposing force which should suggest that they didn't really go to war, and instead found the gould's weaknesses and took them all out at once effectively crippling the gould's power and hold on this galaxy. it would have had to of been something that took them all out simultaneously because again, strategy.
Yeah I mentioned something like that in the video. That doing a VS or war video with these two factions would be difficult given their nature. I tried my best to make the video as good as I could. And though it may not be perfect I stand by my conclusion.
@@sg-24 now i never read any of the novels on this matter so i don't know the direction they went there, but i would assume it wasn't that far off given their behavior, funny having this conversation right after brad wright did an interview while he brought up this very same topic as he also wanted to do more with the Aschen and their story line.
Yep... Just look at people today that wear bright colored outfits, multicolored hair, etc etc... It leads to delusional, low IQ, self centered, non thinking, weak minded peop...no...morons. ;)
While I like the video in general, I strongly disagree that both races are about equal in technology. The Tollan are way more advanced when it comes to sheer progress. They have phase technology and can walk through walls, can casually locate a planet and send an FTL signal with little to no preperation, and as you pointed out yourself multiple times, were able to reverse engineer the stargate technology. And although not seen in action directly, it is strongly hinted that they have a way of nearly infinite energy production, probably similar to the Ancients' ZPM or even better. Note that the amount of energy harnessed is one of the most important benchmarks for judging technological advancement (as seen in the Kardashev scale for example). That is all way beyond what humanity can reach within the next few decades. (Not even talking about the ion cannons here.) The Aschen on the other hand have very advanced medicine and bioweapons, and they are capable of things like space travel and short range teleportation via platforms, kinda like the Goa'uld. They also have high level quantum computers and experimented with terraforming of some kind. The computer technology and medicine are things huminaty could achieve in real life within the next decades, and the rest of the Aschen technology is not beyond what the SGC already knows from the Goa'uld. The whole "Jupiter into a sun" thing is more of a planned triggering of chain reactions, I mean Carter managed to blow up a sun that way. But more important is what the Aschen do NOT have. They still rely heavily on agriculture, unlike any other advanced race in the franchise. Their sense of efficiency is also quite questionable. Waiting 200 years to conquer a planet instead of just terraforming an uninhabited one (which they will easily be able to after a few more decades of research, as we know they already have the foundations for that technology) is obviously the main point to address here. But you can see this pattern in smaller things as well. Their security system at the stargate port ("future" timeline) for example, I mean what are these lasers? Hurting people slowly until they eventually die from multiple shots? Wouldn't it be way more effective for that purpose to just instantly stun intruders? So they either don't have a technology that's in the basic arsenal of Goa'uld, Wraith and many more, or they deliberate chose an inefficient design. To come back to the comparison, the Tollans would have just deactived all weapons automatically in this case. ;) However, in a direct conflict the Aschen might still win by using a bioweapon, as long as they find a way to deploy it. After all, the Tollans' biggest weakness is their overconfidence and lack of military prowess, and they could be defeated by the technologically less advanced, but more tactically experienced Goa'uld.
You brought up a lot of good points. I completely forgot about the lasers in that one episode. In generally I agree with you. Though I will say this one thing. While the Tollan did build a Stargate, they did have help from the Nox. So how much was the Tollans own intellect, and how much was it the Nox showing them?
Honestly we don’t know how fast the ashen ships are because if they were as fast as you think they were they would have explored more than their space which seems big but compared to the galaxy as a whole is very small
@@armandovanhaaren9823 they weren’t concerned with that they just didn’t know which direction to go in, their weapons and bioweapons where good enough to not be scared if they met violent aliens
@@mightguysseconddisciple8670 yes but the ashen said that they weren't the natural explorers the people from earth were . And that implies that they were extremely cautious about meeting other people and races . Possibly because they assumed that other people or races would be just as hostile as them
@@armandovanhaaren9823 that’s true but they still would have tried to explore safely and see things from a safe place so they could know how to react if they had fast ships and remember they had tried to use the star gate to find other planets that’s how they found that one planet where sg1 met them
The Tollen would never get to high level discussions with the Aschen. They would say no thanks, we only interact with highly advanced and enlightened species. The Aschen would never get a foot in the door with the Tollens and would probably just move on to a less advanced civilization. The Aschen also seem to prefer civilizations that are significantly less advanced than them since they’re typically eager to meet with and establish relations with them.
You are not wrong on both fronts. But the Aschen would come across as an advance and enlightened species at first, cold and emotionless, but still advanced and enlightened. As for the Aschen while they do seem to prefer less advanced species, in the episode 2001 one of the things they wanted from Earth was a list of the advanced races they had meet. That was actually one of the inspirations for this video.
@@sg-24 The Ashen claim they have an interest in meeting the advanced races that they have encountered however they probably expected them to say this! It is never explored how in the alternate timeline they hid what they had done to say the Volians from the people of Earth. Samantha's husband the ambassador Joe Faxton had knowledge the Ashen were limited growth and were supposed to reduce the birthrate by 30%. The Ashen probably had a long term plan for eliminating or neutralizing a potential threat like the Tollan, the Tok'Ra or Asgard.
@Seria Scannain I’m sure they did, but I think these group wouldn’t take the Aschens deal. I recently rewatched that episode and there was a scene where they talked about going to the Tollan or what remained of the Tok’Ra for help (who I think were sadly wiped about by the same bio weapon used on the Goa’uld.). Kind of makes me wonder how the two interacted with in alternate timeline.
About turning Jupiter into a star. Firstly, let me start by saying that personally, I always assumed it was more to make terraformation/colonisation of Mars and Jupiter moons easier rather than helping Earth farming. Secondly, as you spoken about how it would have negative effects on Earth plants and people, I thought, maybe that was the point. Maybe Aschen came from the planet with multiple suns, and, as such, they were making preparations to make Solar Sytem and Earth, more like their homeworld, so they could potentially colonize it after humans die. And I know that they liked to enslave humans and make them into their farmers, but we don't know if they didn't also like to just terraform and colonize some planets that they conquered.
The Tollen are so arrogant that they could outright tell Sam quantum physics is wrong but then Mckay full on ignores that for the rest of the franchise. I thought it was a mistake at first but McKay is obviously correct.
There was also that scene with Daniel, where the jerky Tollan (yeah, I know that makes it vague) sends a signal to the Nox and says that the space between the planets seems vast until you do this (and he folds a sheet of paper). And then Daniel says that he's heard about this in physics and it's about folding space. The jerk says no... but I think he was just trying to show off and was annoyed that Daniel already knew what he was talking about.
The Aschen could be servants of a goauld and the jupiter star conversion could simply refer to heating up the serface to a degree where it provides light trueout the solar system. Assuming they use a stargate and move plasma true a wormhole harvested from some preexisting star a temporary heat vent for thousands of years isnt necesserally out of the question is it? What if you hyperspaced an injection of material from the serface of the sun ,, how long would that keep the heat up?
I think that superiority comes down to the tactics and energy production capabilities of each race. The Aschen are a Type 1 civilization on the Kardashev scale, trying to move to Type 2. They conquer planets in their system for food production because that is their level of energy production. They have mastered some aspects of quantum physics and are capable of creating stars, but they can't harness 100% of the solar energy using dyson swarms or anything equivalent, so they adopt a lot of Type 0 and Type 1 strategies for resource management, such as sterility and colonialism. But they are not explorers or risk takers, so I think that they lack the will to expand into a Type 2 civilization. The Tollan are an established Type 2 civilization - they control the energy in their solar system. But the Tollan have 2 major tactical disadvantages: 1. They are ideological pacifists and will only develop defensive technologies like ion cannons, force-fields and null weapon fields (all of which show that they have complete mastery over quantum physics). 2. They are isolationists - whether as a result of what happened in their original system or just a cultural affect, they clearly have no expansionist goals. These guys can create unlimited energy - that's a huge advantage. They can build system-destroying weapons and, if they choose, semi-ancient level technology to deploy them. TLDR; The Aschen's limitations are technological and intellectual. The Tollan's limitations are cultural and ideological. They only seem to be on the same level because of the Tollan's self restraint. The reality is that the Aschen have nothing that could stand up to the weapon nullifier or the phasing technology. To win, they would have to use a sneak attack or subterfuge, like Anubis did.
Do the Tollan have a Dyson Sphere, I don't remember? Also it is possible that even if the Ashen don't possess weapon nullifier or phasing technology themselves, they may still be able to adapt to this technology and develop countermeasures to it.
@@justbecause3187 In Enigma, it's said that they had technology that could create clean unlimited energy. That's basically on the same level or more advanced than star trek's matter-energy replicator or transporter. That trumps a Dyson sphere or anything else the Ashen could invent. It would seem like magic to them.Tactics are about the only way to counter that type of advantage.
@@arstropica Interesting, thanks for the reply. It's difficult to know how literally to take a claim of "unlimited energy," but interesting none the less.
The Aschen needed the stargate adresses to move around, most probably cause their ships either arent fast enough or have enough range to go outside their own region. So whats makes you think they could go to Tolana. Yeah the Tolan ships arent powerfull, and they dont have any strong handweapons, but thats cause they arent needed. They do have the tech to make them. The Tolan can only win with a suprise attack, and the sterility might be fixed by Tollan tech
I will admit the Aschen making their way to Tollana via ship is somewhat far fetched. However, the Aschen's gate could not account for stellar drift, and could only travel to worlds close by with the gate. With ships we know they use them to get around their space, and we learn in their second episode the planet they are on they found via ship, and the planets stargate was found latter. As for what you said about the ships not being fast or having a limited range, well there no evidence for that. Granted there's no evidence (unless you want to count the book) saying they are fast or have a great amount of range. So yes the way the two meet is somewhat unrealistic, but it's the only realistic way I see it happening. As for your thoughts on the Tollan, I agree. They did have the tech to make ships with weapons. But that's the thing, in a surprise attack what you could have doesn't, what you do have dose. And the sterility virus was not the only bio weapon they Ashcen had. "A living, radioactive, genetic material that may be designed to attack and destroy only the specific DNA of your enemy. We have a number of efficient delivery systems." - Mollem This bio weapon they tried to use on Earth. As for the Tollan they may have the technology to find a cure, but weather they could or make it in time is up to debate.
@@sg-24 One could consider that the Aschen only travel to nearby systems, due to their gate problems, might also refer to how their ships might be fast enough to make the trip to the ships within their limited gate network, but comparatively not much elsewhere. One of the drawbacks of advancing on their own without the shortcut of following the ancient technology tree for hyperdrives like the gou'ald. -I may be wrong.
@Lee H I’m not sure. The thing is we only see their use of advanced understanding of biology to make bio weapons. That being said their vaccine did make people live longer, so they might be able to help a little.
@@sg-24 Thx, btw Jupiter would need much more mass to turn into a sun naturally but much crazier things have been done throughout Stargate's history than turning a gas giant into a mini-star through space -magic- science.
TLDR: you're entirely correct about the stupidity of a Jupiter-star Honestly, if you've messed with the game "universe sandbox," slapping a minimum mass red dwarf in where Jupiter is in the solar system is pretty apocalyptic in of itself gravitationally. Yeah Earth won't go flying into it, that's not how gravity works, but adding dozens of extra Jupiter masses will severely perturb the orbits of all planets in the system. Also ironically, regardless of what kind of star size you go for when stellarifying Jupiter, it's gonna be pointless for crop growth not due to plants needing downtime, but lack of solar irradiance due to distance. If you look at any red dwarf system and their habitable zone radius compared to that of Sol, it's pathetically tiny. So much so at Jupiter distance, it wouldn't meaningfully contribute, especially at solar opposition when earth and Jupiter-sun are on opposite sides of the sun. Same kinda applies for a Jupiter-star with the output of our sun as when Jupiter-sun and earth are at closest approach, you'd definitely be able to see perfectly fine during the "night," that's not permanent because of earth's dramatically faster orbital period. It's hard to properly articulate but because of this simple fact of orbital mechanics it won't illuminate all of the usually dark hemisphere of earth. Also if you think about it, if the Aschen were capable of moving Jupiter masses of planetary material around, that makes them on par with the power level of the planet builder species from Universe which is accidentally hilariously broken.
@radeadcool well the Tollan only made those because they were forced to by the Goa’uld. So I’m not sure they would have made them on their own unless they were desperate.
i think abaut another star, if they can do fusion create more energy that comsum in micro scall, they meyby can do it, even add for planet a ravity core who take some energy from new star and trun it into gravity, but it alos need litle redesing entire sol system bcs new graviti, Only good and easy think here star like that dont do much light, Night still be Night on our planet just we have another big glowc thing like a moon and look like a big distance star
Mhh I don't think that the Aschen are that advanced, apart from there transporter technologie ( which needed Transport Platforms) they don't have anything the Goa'uld don't have ( Rings can count as transporters if ya ask me, I mean the Goa'uld can build new rings etc) If the Goa'uld ever wanted to destroy the Aschen they prob could do that. After they got their Anubis upgrade even the tollans where no match for them. I would say the Aschens are more a like the Lucian Aliance then the Tollans.
I’m going to have to disagree. Unlike the Alliance the Aachen built all their technology. The Alliance just uses stuff left over from the Goa’uld. And the Goa’uld stole all of their tech mostly from the Ancients. And sure the Goa’uld maybe could wipe out the Aschen, but in the original timeline the Aschen brought down the empire.
@@sg-24 mhh thats true even tho the Goa'uld have scientist and could reverse engeniere the tech they stole ( the Alliance can do that prob too), the prob as always with those one time aliens in Stargate is that we don't know enough , for example we don't know that the Aschen developed their tech them selves
@@timemeddler7730 that’s a really great point. And as I started doing videos about the lore of SG I’ve really come to know that. We don’ really know a lot about the aliens, human or otherwise, of this universe. Even basic stuff is sometimes not mentioned.
@@sg-24 Like 60% of the Lore comes from the Roleplay books and that may not bee even canon like the whole System Lord Backstory, which would be a great Topic for a video btw.
I agree. They are book smart is all. This is why O'Neil didn't respect them. They couldn't fully decipher the gate system because they lack curiosity and innovation. The Tollans built a frickin Stargate (with help). They also have access to unlimited energy -- the point being that, if the Tollan decided to wage war, they could deal way more damage than the Aschen who are still conquering planets for food production. The Aschen are an ambitious Type 1 civilization. The Tollan are an established Type 2 civilization that control all the energy in their solar system, they are way more advanced in energy production and technology. They are just holding back because of ethics. Compare Borren's comment to O'Neil about not bringing weapons to Narim's comment to O'Neil about the fact that all weapons are automagically disabled. No comparison. The main issue is that the Tollan weaponry is purely defensive in nature, but if they decided to go on offense, they would destroy the Ashen with ease.
If the Tolen were so intelligent, why would they go back to bury a gate that's going to be destroyed with the planet anyways??? Makes no sense the planet is turning to a giant ball of lava. The planet is going to bury it anyways... 😂 Plot holes 😮 ahh made myself sad for tearing down Stargate.. 😢
Fun fact, our knowledge of how the universe works is constantly changing and trying to judge the actions of a society over 100 years more advanced than ours on our current understanding is frankly egotistical. Go back a couple hundred years and tell them about cell phones.
Okay, I deserved that burn. Oh also your comment on the Ancient (can’t say word b/c RU-vid) video was deleted. That wasn’t me, RU-vid keeps doing that to random comments sometimes.
@@sg-24 and the canon ion of the tollan destroyed 2 old hatak ship with ease so for me the tollan win and they have perfect health with her medical technology
@@dave9332 true the ion cannons are powerful, but if you have strong enough shields one can overcome this. As for the medical tech, while the Tollan and Nox have great medical tech, we do know the Aschen are ready good at this too. Specifically with making plagues. I do think the Tollan would win in the end, but I think it would be more Aschen would go up against someone as powerful as them and not be interested in fighting.
@piotrjasielski I apologize for that, in my older videos I had the music turned up way to much. When/if I ever redo those videos the music will be much lower.
Really, your defending the Tollan? I’m not judging, it’s just most people in my comments love to bash them. So it’s kind of surprising to hear someone defend them.
I think they were more advanced but more like a few hundred years. However like the Asgard they lack strategic thinking or resources and would probably loose a war with the tau'ri nevermind the Aschen
