Stark Varg: Is this the Future of Dirt Bikes? Thoughts after 4-days of Riding 

Glad you like the channel! You need to arrange for a test ride on the demo Varg...and let us know your thoughts!

Both bikes (18” / hand brake & a 19” foot brake) from west coast motorcycles were at mutiny training compound (fx) where a good mate was at yesterday His call and review to me couple of hours ago were basically a repeat of yours. What stood out -suspension -Overall instant power (max 60). 45 was plenty -made him realise the lag of his 22’ gasgas mc350 -ease and speed of cornering -less gyro sometimes a disadvantage with ‘bringing the bike back’ with some fx moves (not into that myself) Will be arranging a demo Good times ahead 👌

Also -how slim the bike is -traction (mapping just felt so natural)

@@mikeaust80 Thanks for the detailed feedback! Hope you get to experience the Varg for yourself soon!

@@mikeaust80 I always wondered how the physics for big whips and such would change, on my surron it seems to whip similarly(I assume bc the wheels still have large gyro effect) but maybe the bigger more advanced stuff may need the engine. I think they had a stark at x games best whip not long ago but dont remember how well it did or if the rider was limited.

The EU2200i charges about 1% every 1.5 minutes so perhaps 15~20% charge in 30 minutes

In another video a guy rode one from 100% charge on an mx track at 55hp setting for 1 hour and it was down to 10% charge. He was a pretty good rider and he rode it pretty hard, then he charged it back to 100% from 10%, and he said it took 2.5 hours.

Power to weight ratio....30HP on a Sur Ron can be very fast and fun! Wonder how good the soon to be released Beta Explorer will be?

@@mxengineer1 power is fine for beginners like me. I stay away from the turbo button for sure!

@@bluetrepidation 80hp is fun! ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-EPqcNR9k5rk.html

Yes I saw that 913 Outdoors tried a smaller sprocket on his Varg. I had no issues with the stock gearing but nice to have an option to move the rear wheel if needed.

Yes there are a lot of unanswered questions when it comes to racing electric moto bikes!

Gald you enjoy the channel and excellent questions! I have no details at this time but I have seen battery life discussed on E-MTB's in terms of percent of range after 1000 chargte cycles (typically 80% capacity after 1000 charge cycles).

Stark has the battery listed on their site at just shy of $7k which is pretty standard for the capacity at about $1k per kwh for mfg quality packs. DIY type packs can be cheaper but with these packs they wont be diy as the voltage is too high(350v) vs something like the surron(60v/72v). Electric motors last a really long time, on electric bike motors Ive never heard one needing a rebuild outside of it being abused or pushed past it limit or rare quality defect. Like @mxengineer1 mentioned life cycle is typically 1000cycle is used at moderate level, 500 if extreme levels (think regular use at 60-80hp or depleting in less than an hour). That said 1000cycles seems to be about 2000hrs of trail riding or 1000hrs of mx so $7k im sure still comes out pretty close to running an mx 4 stroke and 2 strokes are much worse off(I did the math on it a while back and 125s are horrible with 10-20hr top ends lol)

@@mrskywalker115 Thanks for the details on the battery cost and life. Trail ride for 100 hours per year for 20 years and then replace the battery!

@@mxengineer1 Only thing is battery will degrade more from time than use in that case(10-15yrs would be max Id hope to get) but then its also easier to get more hours on my electric bikes since I can ride in my backyard during the week. Its a two edged sword, if you want to ride alot in a year electric great, if you only do about 40-50hrs/yr then you be better off on gas bike as motors dont wear from sitting a while without use

I read the battery has a life of 500 hours, and a cost of $7,000. And btw, if you only rode it 6 hours a week, say 3 hours a day on Saturday and Sunday every weekend, that is 24 hours a month. That is 24x21 for 504 hours, so the battery life would be used up in less than 2 years. These people saying you can get 10 to 15 years out of a battery are out to lunch. To do that you could only ride it once a week for 2 hours. If you ride it 6 hours a week, you will get less than 2 years out of a battery, then you need to pay $7,000 for a new one.

The ones in this demo bike both got pinch flats! Super thin (like paper) and super lightweight (which is great) but need at least 15~16psi to keep from pinch flatting. I really like how lightweight the special tubes are for a big reduction on rotational inertia of the wheels

Yes the Varg is a unique motorcycle riding experience!

Yes - that would be great!

Yes batteries need to increase the energy density a lot to compete with gas but for now the Varg is a fun motorcycle experience

@@mxengineer1 it looks great, thanks for the content!

@@funkNretro Thanks!

Stark warranty for the battery and motor is 2-years so hopefully any issues come up in that time frame

People drive Tesla’s to over 100,000 miles and no more than 7-10% battery degradation. I believe the battery shouldn’t be an issue with the Varg.

Wow - thermal limits on the battery are a deal breaker for you and your riding conditions. I would discuss with Stark - maybe there is an issue with your battery or motor or even the cooling system? Stark markets their thorough testing with high level racers so it would seem they would have experienced such an issue. Let me know if Stark finds an issue with your Varg.

I've been talking to the guys at stark, and they admitted that this is a issue with sand riding under load, and there is no solution. Stark checked the bike, Bikes fine no faults other than it can't handle the jandal. I noticed it gets worse after every moto, as the heat from riding then charging is still in the battery so it thermal limits quicker on the second moto and evan quicker on the 3rd due to the heat being retained in the battery and 45 mins charging doesn't let it cool down enough.

This is the email from stark.Thank you for contacting Stark. Sand tracks offer very little traction thus greatly impacting efficiency, as the wheel spins constantly. What you are describing is consistent with derating. That means the operating temperature is reaching the limits and the control units reduce power to prevent any damages. You feel the power coming back after a cool down period. Unfortunately, this isn't something we can fix, per say. We can only continue to work on developing and improving the powertrain efficiency. Keeping your bike up to date will also help prevent derating as we deploy better thermal management strategies with new updates. Please let us know if there’s anything else we can assist you with at this moment.

The first run will less likely experience this but the next rides will get increasingly worse as the start temperature is already higher. The best advise we can offer is to try and cool it down the battery as much as possible. Use slow charging whenever possible, spray water on the battery casing, get a couple of ventilators blowing on the battery casing, wrap ice packs around the battery, use the active cooling when charging between motos, etc. We are working on a few solutions ourselves but still in the test stages.

@@WillyMakeIt105 Sounds like there is no real solution at this time for your Varg sand riding over heating issue. Maybe a higher flow coolant flow rate and larger radiator to move more heat away at a quicker pace could help?

Wish my Varg would arrive so I could start building up charge cycles!

@@mxengineer1how much better is the range on the varg compare to the Freeride you think?

@@Raggesvenne The Freeride is woods/trail bike so running the Varg in the 35~45hp range should get 1.5~2.0 hours run time which can be a little longer than the Freeride.

My 2020 KTM Freeride E-XC has about 1600 miles and 110 hours ride time. That is (2) gear reduction oil changes, a chain, and rear tire...very low maintenance

I think a very powerful and stealthy quad would be fun!

Yes I missed that! But it is a Honda so it sip gas!

Yes the sound may not appeal to everyone. However stealth can be good in some riding situations (like woods). Battery is warranted for 2-years from Stark...maybe they could extend that to make customers feel more confident

If the battery last 1000cycle(typical of lithium batteries when they reach 70-80% original capacity) it would be roughly 2000hrs of use so a two stroke with 50hr top end replacements would have spent close to $10k in top end alone in that same time(my 125s would get 15-20hr changes fyi), also gas, oil changes etc and time wrenching. The stark battery is $7k so hard pill to swallow at once but long term still coming out ahead. Two stoke lover too but math proves electric is lower cost of ownership by a long shot if no major issues arise and many other electric bikes are proving true if left stock

@@mrskywalker115 Thanks for the battery and cost details!