StarTrek Dominion War : The Cardassian Question (Part 1) 

Hey Guys, This is part 1 of a 2-3 Part series on the Cardassians. There was a lot of material that I wanted to break down. Also.. For your information - this week's schedule: Monday - StarTrek Dominion War: The Cardassian Question Tues- Starcraft Lore: Rise of the Confederacy Wednesday: Before the Federation: Vulcan High Command Thursday: Startrek Lore: The Orion Syndicate (Patreon Request) Friday: LoreReloaded Response

You're seriously underselling the Nebula class starship. During TNG era, it was easily the 2nd most powerful class vessel in Starfleet, behind the Galaxy class. Especially when equipped with the torpedo module instead of the sensor module like the USS Phoenix. Other than that, I love your videos, keep up the good work!

The Problem with the Federation is that they were surrounded by enemies. They simply had too much space to protect and not enough ships to properly protect it. It was part why the Romulans joining the war help the UFP tremendously for they could transfer ships from the Beta Quadrant to the Alpha without worrying losing territory. Also, the Galaxy Class are complex machines that took far longer to build then other classes, and a Tactical Nebula Class can be pretty powerful as it was design by conflict. Even then, for the first four years they built 15, and continued production until an unconfirmed 30-60 were built by the Dominion War. You are also not taking into account progression in Technology, and how the Federation was making large strides by the end, so there were points Cardassian technology were comparable, if not superior then Federation technology. Just look at TNG where by in seven years the Galaxy class double in strength in power. But the bottom line it was simply they could not transfer enough ships to crush the Cardassians without fear of the Romulans, the Tholians, and so many other minor powers taking advantage. Not to mention the Border Wars were not just war with the Cardassians, but several different conflicts with species across their space, one of which were powerful enough to outclass the Cardassians and the Federation had a brutal, though short war with.

the Federation's biggest issue is it's own ego. They feel that fighting a war to win makes them look like conquers. This is because of the "dove" faction the grew during the years of peace they had between 2330 and 2360. And since most of their opponents were less advanced or much smaller, they could simply contain them in their own space using their fleet or politics to do the job. When they finally ran into a enemy they couldn't beat, they got annihilated. I.E. the borg and the dominion.

But Nebula can carry a variety of pods on the top, one of the options is a weapons pod with even more torpedo launchers. Considering similar design, the power output of Nebula and Galaxy should be similar. So the phasers are actually quite adequate. In Star Trek, the number of phasers rarely matters unless shooting at a lot of small targets.

Ok...a few things. First, the nebula class is armed with more than two phasers. There are two more strips along the aft saucer, with another along th ventral engineering hull and one on the dorsal surface of each nacelle pilon. Furthermore, their shield grid is identical to that of the galaxy class but is more efficient due to the smaller size of the shield bubble. Additionally, most Nebula class cruisers were outfitted with a tactical pod along the dorsal superstructure. This afforded them several rapid fire torpedo launchers in both fore and aft firing arcs, and also provided the ship with an advanced sensor grid and electronic warfare package. Honestly, the nebula class starships were actually quite formidable, and were basically the better version of the galaxy class while being less expensive and far more reliable

IIRC, Nebulas were build with a exchangeable modular mission specific pod section as part of it's initial design (TNG era). A combat mission pod exponentially increased the Nebula's offensive and defensive abilities with the addition of (based on what I remember reading years ago) 2 torpedo launchers plus higher capacity and 5 phaser banks. It was done so like this because of cost effectiveness, a Galaxy took almost 3x as much raw material and years to build. Much like Mirandas were cheap fillins for Constitutions.

For a large part of their existence the Federation was basically like the UN here on Earth, a thing that in theory sounds like a great idea but in practical terms it is nothing but a "Paper Tiger".

Great video, as always. I find the Cardassians to be a very interesting star trek foe/faction, and I know they are a fan favourite. Also, I just noticed how quickly your channel is growing, you will be at 10k in no time!

Also the Sutherland, commanded by Data during the blockade of the Romulans border, clearly has and uses the upgraded weapons pod

Your research is bad, Nebula Class ships have 7 Phaser Arrays and 3 Torpedo Launchers

Great video! Very much looking forward to the next part.

the Phoenix ,with no shields, took a direct hit and then destroyed the Cardassian war ship attacking it. It has plenty if firepower. Official sources rate the Vor'cha class s equal to the Nebula! it's not the ship's, it's Starfleet pacifism that hamstrings them

We here this same mantra today about using "equal force" or "equivalent response". The moral of the story is if you fight you fight to win and that meens over whelming force bought to bare.

I was always impressed how the Cardassians were able to offset their technological limitations with military skill. Cardassian officers were mostly depicted as being very intelligent and highly tactically competent.

I wish we'd gotten more Eddington and Sisko time, those debates of theirs about the state of the federation and it's policies of non interference and capitulation to other species whims were really well written.

Never really thought of it this way.

Just completely overlooking the weapons pod above the Nebula classes saucer section.

You made some good points in this video on Starfleet's incompetence/reluctance in maximizing their military potential, however they are not the first one to blame. Federation, due to its political ideology and structure, has to provide very high living and developing opportunitis for all its citizens(think about Sisko's father who runs his own restaurant in a society without money), and avoid wars at all costs. Starfleet has its hands tied even if the higher ups wanna to militarized, just recall the time in Dominion War that it takes a mutiny to declear curfew,. On the other hand, another way there is to look into Federation's incapability to defend its interest is that it was incompetent against each and every Borg invasion, while the powers less advanced in Delta quardant(say Devore) can hold their ground neighboring Borg territory for hundreds of years. PS: A Nebula class, in its default configuration, has at least 80% phaser firepower that of a Galaxy class, and it can be expanded by mounting a weapon module.

Awesome, love visiting back to episodes with analysis comment. :P

Enjoyed your analysis.

you forgot that if the nebula class REALLY wanted to fight. they can switch out the sensor pod with a tactical pod increasing their torpedo tubes from 2 to 8 (adding about 200 additional torpedoes) .. and their phaser banks from 8x to 11x

I think that the Federation Council makes Neville Chamberlain look hawkish.

the Warship was given the prefix codes by Word to lower the Phoenix shields. Watch the clip

Exactly! There's a time to talk, a time to listen, and a time for action. There is such a thing as talking too much. What happened to Cardassia is prime example to that.

The Nebula class is a powerful starship, the clip you should with the USS Phoenix proves that. The number of phaser arrays / photon torpedo as an indicator of power of a ship is inaccurate. I would argue it more depends on how much power each phaser blast can deliver. A starship will have a finite amount of power available in the instant of firing, this power can either be concentrated through one phaser array that can be delivered at a single point (like when the Enterprise-D blasted a whole through the Borg Cube) or it can be channeled to different arrays allowing multiple targets to be engaged simultaneously. Therefore more arrays only means more targets can be engaged simultaneously! I also disagree with your assessment of the Cardassian 'border wars', my impression of these conflicts were they large scale skirmishes. It started with the Cardassians initially raiding far flung and poorly defended federation colonies. I imagine the Federation effort was exclusively defensive but they gradually gained the upperhand as they deployed more and more starships to the Cardassian front. I think the 'Wars' ended when the Cardassians were pushed back to their space and they realised they had no prospect of gaining any territory by military means. This peace also suited the federation as (a). continuing meant escalating the war and the unappetizing prospect of deploying ground troops to invade and occupy Cardassian planets, (b). this happens around 2366, so starfleet wants to pull it's ships back to face the borg threat (In reality this action isn't completed before the borg invasion of 2367 and that is why only 40 ships are available at Wolf 359).

thanks lore

Throughout the entire video you missed the purpose of the Federation; to provide a paradise for its citizens. Going around picking fights with neighbouring belligerent powers has the precise opposite effect. The Federation isn't a 24th century US or Russia or ISIS etc. By all means be strong, but don't stick your nose into other peoples wars, at least not overtly, and DEFINITELY don't go starting them. As Roosevelt said; "Speak softly, and carry a big stick".

I am in complete agreement with you, Starfleet could have stop it before it began, all of it

The Nebula class is to the Galaxy, what the Miranda was to the Constitution. A lighter-weight, more compact mass produced ship, that could be retrofitted with different modules depending on the situation that it found itself in, often times meaning it could be better than its bigger brother at any specific task, think of it along the ideas of specialization versus a jack of all trades. A combat fitted miranda/nebula would be equal/possibly superior in a combat situation than a Constitution or Galaxy, but would be worse at the other things those two ships could do, such as science/cargo transport. It was exactly that heavily modular design and mass produced nature that probably allowed the Miranda class to survive for as long as it did while the Constitution got phased out. It was cheaper, could be made tougher and stronger, was smaller and more maneuverable, and had less structural weaknesses, and could be fitted with what the mission at hand needed. This is exactly like the Nebula, which follows the same design philosophy. I assume the only reason we saw more Mirandas than Nebulas, was due to the Pacifistic nature of Starfleet, and the Miranda being good enough for the threats at the time.

Well done and driving home how the Federation's ideals translate poorly in dealing with even its more aggressive allies, let alone its enemies. The Cardassians were driven into a corner yes, but it wasn't entirely their fault.The Dominion War showed how Federation idealism was in some ways as dangerous as Klingon corruption.

I never understood why Starfleet bothered allowing Federation colonies to exist within the DMZ. They could have easily have beamed them all off the planets and forcibly relocate on planets not near Cardassia. I am totally on Sisko's side. I have a theory that the reason why Starfleet never punished Sisko for using a biomutagenic weapon on the Maquis was because they hoped it would make them start abandoning those colonies for safer ones.

its a good video but a nebula class starship is a lot better than you say.

I have a question. Might the captain of the U.S.S. Pheonix have gotten his nebula class ship upgraded (perhaps by means the he kept Starfleet in the dark about)? Him and his crew were out to wage a one ship preemptive war against the Cardasians after all. And if he did, wouldn't that completely change the perspective of how powerful Cardasian ships were during that time.

Your analysis is very good - especially that was the plan of the session anyway. The Cardassians were like the Germans in the 20th century - okay mix of empire and Nazi. The Klingons Play the russians like in TOS, the Romulans are a mix of Italians/French. The Federationis the British or the Americans. The Cardassians became powerful in the Dominon like Germans in the Nazi-rule just to end to be face by the united force.

From the TNG technical manual the top phaser on the Galaxy is actually 200 emitter segments linked together. I always consided that the equivalent of 200 TOS ball emitters . If the size of the saucer and this phaser on the nebula is the same as the galaxy then the main phaser of the two ships are the same strength. And if you add in the top weapons mount on the nebula that would make the nebula class a superior combatant then the Galaxy class. Which makes sense with the Galaxy being the long-range Explorer with families schools and indoor playgrounds versus the nebula which was supposedly built in larger numbers and would have been the general workhorse ship of the fleet.

Wait, so your core argument in this video comes off (to me) as: - Cardassia joined the Dominion because they were humiliatingly defeated by Starfleet. - Starfleet should have built more Galaxy class ships in order to defeat the Cardassians in an even more one-sided (humiliating) way. I'm sure you have a logical argument, this video just isn't communicating it very well or I am misunderstanding it completely.

The cardassians we're right. Just for the record , the cardassians saved the Federation when they changed sides during the Dominion War and they not subsumed into the Federation and are not under Federation control. You should read the Typhon Pact books

I've always wanted to know why did Odos people being longitude Dominion in season 3 and why? Since I saw all seven seasons of DS9 I can never figure out why this happened. Now I know why older left his home planet at the end in the season 3. In other words he was a very nice changeling he didn't want to be part of the Dominion at all. Why they wanted him to come home I have no idea but he did it when he needed to towards the end of season 7.

Great video!

The UFP didn't get into a total war, because they weren't trying to. They were trying to reform the Cardassians. The UFP was mostly intact from the border wars, or at least seemed to be, while Cardassia's military government was selling precious artifacts in order to fund their war efforts. This gives the UFP options, while limiting the Cardassians, especially when you have things like the Borg or the Romulans to worry about, or the Kzinti and Tholians before TNG started. This is supposition based on the events in DS9 seasons 3 and 4, that the Federation was doing it's darnedest to turn the Cardassians over to their way of thinking. Co-sponsored science missions, diplomatic treaties that gave the Bajorans their artifacts back, helping dissidents have a safe place in Federation territory, etc., which eventually lead to a Civilian revolution that put a civilian, not a military, government in charge of Cardassia. Then everything went to hell and the Klingons invaded due to Changeling influence and because they wanted to feel like they weren't the Federation's pets anymore. It's a little hard to groom a government and it's people into Federation membership when one of your former allies starts bombing the crap out of them and invading them for the possibility of 'Dominion influence'. Which, ironically, led to the Dominion wiping out the Maquis and kicking out the Klingons so that Dukat could 'Make Cardassia great again'. Had that not happened, the Federation would probably have been welcoming Cardassia as members within a generation or two.

Few points about Nebula vs Cardasians. I do not remeber every single detail of the episode but as far as I remeber it was not stated what ship that was. for all we know it could have been scout ship or other light non front line vessel. As for Nebula it had as far as my Starfleet specs goes 8 type X phaser banks to Galaxy class had 10 to 12 (depending on version and source) so only 2 to 4 diference here. It had only 2 phaser arrays. Now this requires explenation. Federation phasers used arrays (thos phaser fireing things on the dish) to make use of several of its phaser banks in one shot effectively multiplying power of each shot at the expense of umber of shots. Now for the photon torpedo lunchers it is true that Nebulas carried only two photon torpedo lunchers. What you neglected to mention was that those were burst 3 type torpedo lunchers this means that it could fire at once 10 torpedoes every 4 or 5 seconds or so. so 20 torpedoes at once. Galaxy class had exactly same torpedo armament as Nebula although it carried slightly bigger number of spear torpedoes. Unlike galaxy wich had one luncher facing forward and one aft Nebula had both of its lunchers facing forward. This mean it had efectively double Galaxy class torpedo output on its front arc. Counting all than and diference of size (Nebula being around 2/3 of galaxy size) Nebula seem to be very powerful ship desinged as torpedo boat with sorter operating range than Galaxy but superior firepower. There is also one more thing mentioned is nome of the sorces. Namely that Nebula had slightly superior aiming and controll system designed to handle torpedoe fight better. So Nebulas were actually superior in stright fight to Galaxy classes and there were around 50 of them build in comparison to 10 or so Galaxy class ships. Of course there is whideviariety of design specs and other details but Nebula seem to be indeed powerfull vessel. In coparison Cardassian Galor class (vessel most used through the series) and its advanced vertion Keldon class were inferior to both Galaxy and Nebula. Keldor had 4 torpedoe lunchers but they were sigle shot albeit with faster reload rate giving it total torpedo output of 8 in comparison to galaxy 10 (in goven arc of fire) or nebula 20 (number of spare torpedoes was only 25 less than in case of Galaxy). It also had 14 Medium power spiral wave disruptors wich as far as I know were inferior to federation type X phasers and one high power phaser bank (I am unsure how powerfull that was but seing it was often used as main weapon I presume preatty powerful). Unfortunatly Cardassians had inferior targetting technology. In the end one on one Keldon and Galor would loose to both Nebula and Galaxy but they were around half galaxy class and were designed to fight in squadrons of 3, wich changed situation drastically. One galaxy would have little change against 3 of those and cardassians build total of over 400 of Keldon alone. Of course Federation had much more other ships and cardassians were primarily using Galor and Keldons but still. So this argument at least seem to be invalid. I totally agree about wanting only to talk tho.

More Orville please.

Great job again.

To me the Nebula Class was a long Range Super heavy science Vessel but was will armed for a ship its size with 7 phaser arrays and was probably used as a battleship at Times

I don't quite understand some of your interpretations, even from the evidence that you yourself present. Gul Macet, in the clip you showed, talked about a Nebula-class starship as a force to be reckoned with, at least from the Cardassian's point of view. Sure the quantity of armaments might be lower than you expect, but look how quickly the Cardassian warship went down. (And it helped that the Starfleet ships have longer range) Personally, I don't think the Federation ever considered Cardassia to be a serious military threat. I also don't understand why you downplay the value of diplomacy. In the run-up to the Dominion War, the Founders were constantly trying to destabilize the alpha quadrant, and it was Federation diplomacy that prevented the Founders from taking the alpha quadrant unopposed. You seem to be making the case that the Federation should have built up a powerful military and conquered Cardassia during the Border Wars. That seems pretty hawkish. Particularly with a technologically inferior species like the Cardassians. (Yes, Dukat once said that Cardassian vessels were, "years ahead" of the Federation, but I'd say consider the source). So when should a Great Power use military force to bend its neighbors to its will? And when should it use diplomacy? Personally, I think a policy of non-agression is a pretty good general rule.

This is realist perspective on state relations (in this case-star civilizations). If you do not now this, then google it-realism in international relations. It makes perfect sense, but Federation has set of core principles that do not go well with realism. It is pacifist, isolationistic and non-interventionist force. Therefore although you may be right, it is irrelevant-unless Federation would change into something else. It would be interesting though to make an attemtp at analysis what Federation could really do in this situation and NOT violate its principles.

While the federation principles and ideals are sound and preferred to war the fact that they chose to not back up words with their overwhelming might when needed in the end was a poor choice. I mean they do not needs to eradicate the enemies but they could make a show of force or flag presence in such a way that would give pause to anyone considering not talking and figuring things out in a fair and peacefull way. the federation decided to switch from peacefull exploration ships (advanced and armed but still not true warships) a bit late. If they would of decided to increase war ship rpoduction as a precaution even 1 year or so before it would of saved a lot of problems.

the Nebula class has the same saucer as the Galaxy so it has the same type x main phasers

A small contingent of Vesta or Century class Starships would have ended any disagreement with any of the powers of that time

Post klingon and now dominion wars. The federation for sure was expanding faster dropping protocol with new races joining and such. Starfleet casualties high. However i think they are far more tempered now not only in the officers who lived but in the next generation of vessels that will have to replace the 83000 mirandas they lost.

Hey guys. Should the Federation have Kirk's and Pike's instead of Siskos and Picard's during this era, would things be different. If so, how much different?

actually, in the case of the federation, you have totally missed one important point. the prime directive, which the federation council would have followed closely. also, you missed how in "the wounded", a galaxy class ship disabled a galor class with no trouble. the cardassian war was not really a stalemate, as the federation had no desire to destroy another nation. and the maquis did create their own situation by deciding to stay in the de-militarized zone. true they had built lives and homes there, but any sober assessment would say that was a bad idea.

I typically like these videos, but this one was pretty tough to watch. For 1) it makes a lot of assumptions about Cardassian capabilities based on 1 single skirmish between a "warship" of unknown type and strength and a Nebula class vessel. We know from other TNG episodes that the Galor class ship is comparable to Galaxy class vessels, so you're underselling the Caradassians right from the get-go. Additionally, your criticism of the Federation choosing to build weaker ships when they could just build Galaxy class ships seems to ignore any sense of reality. Even in a post-scarcity society with replicators, the Federation would still build "weaker" ships in higher numbers then their top-of-the-line models for one simple fact: time is still a valuable resource. The more powerful the ship, the more complex it is, which means it takes more time to build. If StarFleet can build 5 Nebula class ships or 1 Galaxy class ship in the same amount of time, which one is more valuable to roll off the assembly line assuming all other concerns being equal? You're also underselling the Nebula class itself, since it can be specialized in a variety of ways, including for defense. Of the dozens of these kinds of videos I've seen, this is probably the weakest one. It makes a lot of incorrect assumptions in order to drive to a conclusion that somewhat seems predetermined.

Where did you get these numbers about the nebula class always thought the nebula class was heavily armed and was he almost equal to the Galaxy class in Star Trek Online the nebula class has a better turning radius and it's almost equally on and I have that torpedo part on Top

While I love Star Trek, I have grown to loathe the UFP. First, they are mired in bureaucracy. Its internal policies, such as the Prime Directive, while a wise policy in regards to pre-warp species, is a huge burden when it comes to dealing with other space-faring civilizations. as we can see with the Klingon-Cardassian war. They remained neutral in the conflict because of the Prime Directive and nothing else. Second, Starfleet seems to hold way too much power. How many times do we have Admirals going crazy and nearly overthrowing the government? It would seem that the Federation Council is little more than a puppet state being run from behind the scenes by a military clique mostly made up of Humans and that member species are left without a real voice in galactic affairs. Third, Starfleet is woefully unequipped to deal with external threats due to their focus on diplomacy and negociations. While this helps them avoid conflicts with smaller powers, such as the Tzenkethi (sp?) or the Tholians, they are instantly at a disadvantage when dealing with a civilization that matches their power, or exceeds it. Just look at the Dominion War...The Federation had an effective bottleneck with the Wormhole. When it became apparent that the Cardassians could join the Dominion, they should have set up a blockade, preventing any Gamma Quadrant ships from coming in and ending any colonization efforts in their territory (except for listening posts). To be fair, this blockade should have been set up much earlier, after the destruction of the Odyssey. But no, the Defiant and DS9's Runabouts were the only Starfleet ships in the area, leaving the Bajoran system open for conquest. True, Bajor had not officially joined the UFP at that time, but I am certain the Bajorans would have gladly accepted a Federation fleet blockading the Wormhole, especially if the idea was sold to them by The Emissary. To be blunt, the UFP is quite similar to the modern-day United Nations. Both are ineffectual, byzantine entities that spend way too much time debating issues when real people are suffering. The only true strength of the UFP comes from it being a much larger power (in terms of size) compared to others in its neighborhood of the galaxy.

It's interesting how history's turn can seem like a domino effect. and that's what this was a domino effect with the Cardassians being thrown out of any major power. I even think the bajorians had their hand with taking back their own planet against the original occupation while I know it might seem like coincidence with the wormhole being near bajor, it was still one of the first targets in the war while part of it was control of the wormhole for dominion reinforcements Gul Dukat said they would reclaim all territory they lost and bajor was certainly territory that the cardassians lost.

Probably Section 31 want this to happen perhaps want to learn and tested how many Threat and how to deal such thing

Well, the nebula is definitely one of the federations larger ships

Cardassians : ooohhhhhh nnnnoooooo its a nebula class Federation: take that u piece of floating garbage

For me, this is both the Federation's greatest strength and greatest weakness. The Federation champions diplomacy, it is almost literally what it is built off of after all, and it wields immense power in the Alpha Quadrant. Starfleet has had a history of being in phases between exploratory and militaristic depending on the situation. Sure, by the time of the start of Next Gen, they had some very powerful ships like the Galaxy class, but Starfleet hadn't had a major enemy since the Klingons, and so had devoted not just their resources but their mentality towards exploration and diplomacy thud they were ill-prepared to handle the situation that arose with the Cardassions and do I need to mention the Borg. Yet look what happened after that; they made ships like the Defiant and the Akira class, warships that really showcased the power Starfleet could wield. Take a look at the designs of Starfleet throughout each era of Star Trek, and I think you can see the mentality they had in those uniform designs. Might be a topic worth looking into at some point.

Question: Wouldn't the Klingons have joined the Federation in the "Border" walls as their ally under the treaty of Khitomer Accords? I mean with a bunch of Klingons lusting for war, no matter how peaceful Star Fleet was by mid 24th Century standards, they'd still have 2-1 odds.

Bec. Starfleet does not considers itself a military. It isnt a highly militarized organization in comparison to its rivals.

Can you do Stargate lore?

the defiant only has 3 phaser arrays. not lacking in firepower though, is it?

Very good episode and really does highlight how bad the Federation is, in it's in action.

I'm not sure what the argument is here: you're saying that the Federation's reluctance to be aggressive against the Cardassians and/or the Klingons helped cause the Dominion War? ST has well established that StarFleet isn't primarily a military organisation, and they will always try to sue for peace instead of fighting total wars (As was the case in the negotiated settlement of the border wars). What did you expect them to do? Destroy Cardassia?

Didn't Sisko get stuck in some type of time thing didn't the Klingons took over ds9 ---Sisko son lived old age on Earth --- didn't see the jem'hadar my theory is that the Klingons took over the Cardassians, Sisko wasn't there to save their leaders --- so technically if Sisko died the war would have never happened.

I wonder who (likey klingons) are now using the old dominion shipyards that sirvived. I think it would be neat if klingons in the near future have a hint of dominon design in some of their vessels. Just like how their cloak came from the romulans. As for The federation they might not be designed for combat but this comes down to "the man not the gun" the tools the federation ships do have at their desposal especially on a nebula complements the combined tallents of starfleet crew. Which has always been their strangth. By time tng hit I honestly dont think the romulans or the klingons especially and the cardassians can compete even with the federation restraining itself. When they decided to develop a cloak. They made something that has the potential to go to the centre of a sun. It dont matter if they have two phaser banks when there is a cadet onboard that has managed to manipulate time with his mind lol. Ok ok. Even without crusher "famed engineers that can make replicators out of.animal pelts" or something like that, from the mouth of a vorta.

the dominion told starfleet to stop entering their territory. Federation kept entering the gamma quadrant as they pleased.

That's all well and good to say the Federation could've done something, but that would require its member worlds to agree to a course of action that would lead to the deaths of many of their people and for what? To save some far off world few have ever heard of? Moreover, a long protracted war with the Cardassians could've been the opportunity the Romulans were looking for to come out of isolation and attack so the Federation probably kept that in mind.

With this perspective the cardassians look like the German Kaiserreich after the first world war. A once strong and proud nation broke and got depressed because they had lost nearly everything they had because of a war they did not start but got blamed for it.

They should have invaded cardasia alongside the Klingons appeasing the maquis, Klingons, and bajorens, and protecting the cardasians.

taken from memory alpha : Armament: Eight type-10 phaser emitters; two photon torpedo launchers

8 x Type X phaser arrays7, total output 32,500 TeraWatts 27 x Type 3 burst fire photon torpedo tube7 with 180 rounds

Interesting but the federation are explores and the reason why they did very little was of because of the prime Directive

The reason why the Federation didn't fully commit itself to the border wars is the same as why the US and NATO didn't send everything they had into Bosnia-Herzegovina in 1995, or why the British Imperial army only had 2,900 soldiers taking the field in the First Boer War of 1880-81. The scale of the 'threat' simply didn't warrant such a large investment. As for the apparent lack of action regarding the later wars, the ones Cardassia had with the Klingons and Maquis, I believe this was all a part of the Federation's grand strategy. They were willing to tolerate the annexation of some Cardassian territory if it meant they could step in as benign guardians over the rest of it, as cynical as a political bureaucracy can be the Federation was happy to let the Klingons and Maquis commit what were essentially war crimes. Just look at how fast they were to jump onto Bajor even before they knew about the wormhole, the Federation was a vulture circling the Cardassian carcass. The only reason why things changed, why the Federation intervened against the Klingons is because of Dominion interference. And the reason why so little was committed to this endeavour is because, again, the Federation's plan was still what it was before, they hadn't had time to change things, to rearrange the fleets and develop real anti-Klingon sentiment among the general population that would make them tolerate significant losses in a prolonged war. What we got instead was the Starfleet elite declaring war to protect their own interests and position of power, and while we all know they were correct in this action the same cannot be said of most Federation citizens.

We don't know if Nebula class ships fought in the Border Wars. Most likely they didn't. Clearly, the Nebula class is a complimentary class to the Galaxy class since they both use the same components. (Nebula was a kit bash of the Galaxy.) The Nebula class ship in the episode you showed destroying a cardassian ship was not equipped with the sensor module that you showed in the video, it was equipped with a weapons pod DESIGNED FOR COMBAT. It had more than once torpedo launcher and more than the number of phaser emitters you numbered in the video.

I completely disagree that the Federation didn't start the war. They were told to stay out of the Gamma Quadrant and they just kept poking their noses in it. The Bajorians even created a colony in space that the Dominion claimed. The Dominion didn't go venturing around the Alpha Quadrant, they simply reacted to Federation incursions. The Dominion even destroyed a Galaxy Class by ramming it and still the Federation wouldn't stop using the worm hole. Play stupid games, win stupid prizes. Also, the US managed a fleet of nearly 550 odd ships in the 80's cold war. That is one country of 250 million people doing that. The Federation should have Trillions of people and should be able to maintain not only a sizable exploration fleet, say 5k ships, but also several combat fleets scattered about with the best ships they could build, and each of them should have had another 3-5k ships, with I'm guessing at least 6 battle fleets. This is at an absolute minimum. And mine fields, lots and lots of minefields around strategic systems. And why not planetary shields and Star Fortresses loaded for bear at each member world? In D&D terms, Lawful Good is not a suicide pact.

Star Trek once again reflects on real life it's kind of like the terrorist attacks in Europe and all the lame ass politicians just say "Let's send our Thoughts and Prayers and do nothing". Non-intervention can cost lives while intervention can cost many more lives it's a huge moral dilemma for the Federation.

I didn't have the Galaxy class or the nebula class during the Border Wars the most powerful ships they probably have with the Ambassador class in the Excelsior Andy constellation you know of a stargazer I will maybe some more light class and they might have broke some old Connie refits out

1:56 Lol.. why would the writers set up that scene like that?? Data and Picard just dimed out their side to the Cardassians.. They let them know they can read their codes..

You seem to gloss over the fact the federation didn't like to build warships. the only reason the defiant and nebula class vessels came to be was due to the borg threat. Most federation vessels are designed for scientific study and exploration.

Why are you hating on Nebula class starships ?

What about Kim Cardassian?

Not sure how fair it is to trash the Feds for not building more Galaxy-class craft. How much info do we have on shipbuilding technology? Could be they had production lines for older ship classes that couldn't be switched over at the drop of a hat and would take years to rebuild for the newer design. Same reason modern militaries tend to mostly use decades-old equipment.

Thay didint build ships of galaxy class untill after

The Federation is on a peaceful mission of exploration, not a rampage of putting other powers like the Cardassians in their place. Also, there is the prime directive to consider. Correction- I should say Star Fleet is under a peaceful mission of exploration under the Flag of the Federation.

I don't think they had the Galaxy class or the nebula class during the Border Wars The Border Wars were probably fought with Ambassador class ships Excelsior class Reliant class and maybe even Constitution refit classes they're older ships that's why they developed the Galaxy class in the nebula class because of the Border Wars because Starfleet was using these older ships oh and they probably fought the war with the constellation class

The only reason starfleet didn’t do that stuff is because as a military they are inept even though they have access to human and or species military tactics they don’t use and instead just blunder until eventually they get the peace they want

They could have pushed the Cardassians back, even without dedicated warships! Fact is: The Federation didn't have a stomach for war (despite the fact that they were surrounded by hostile powers - the Zenkathy (spelling?), the Klingons (yes, allies but that can change very fast as we've seen in DS9, the Romulans (who they appeased with a shitty treaty that bans cloaking tech being used by the Federation!), the Ferengi (all first contacts were violent - Stargazer being mission-killed after barely defeating a Ferengi ship through Picard's tactical ingeniuty (note: Even after that Picard is still naive as fuck IMHO), etc. etc.!) and accepted numerous bad peace-deals! The one with the Romulans, the one with the Klingons (they should have let them face the consequences of their war-like nature after Praxis blew up by not helping!) and the one with the Cardassians! Eddington was right! Hell, Sisko is a bloody hypocrite! He knows how easy it is to "...be a saint in paradise..." but he himself isn't any better! He hunts those who do not have the luxury because the "saints in paradise" sold their planets to the Cardassians in a shitty deal while they themselves knew that their planets (Vulcan, Tellar Prime, Earth, Andoria, Risa, Betazed etc.) would never be given away for a crappy peace deal! Seriously, the Federation is fucked up unless you happen to live on Earth (I wounder why people aren't migrating there in droves! Seriously, they should have a migrant crisis!) No, the Cardassians always were a third rate power next to the Federation, the Klingons and the Romulans! Their technology was worse than that of the great powers, they had less territory, less ressources and less manufacturing base (that is why as the war dragged on they couldn't replenish their numbers fast enough! Yes they could breed soldiers (Jem'hadar!), but not build enough ships fast enough! Seriously, the Cardassians are like Nazi-Germany in WW2, but without the technological superiority being on their side, nope it was the other way round! The only thing the Cardassians have going for them? Disziplin, hard work and the Obsidian Order and that was not enough - or at least it wouldn't have been if the Federation really meant business in the war! But no: For the Federation it was a minor struggle and they wanted peace at - almost - any cost!

Akira class ships came after this war . As far as why not as many galaxy class ships ... the reasoning was that they where very expensive to build , that's why not so many where built . The reasoning for not attacking was none interference. As you have so eloquently mentioned in other videos , since the federation was "not supposed to be" a military force , rather mainly an exploration fleet , they didn't invest in more powerful ships . Also , even the venerated galaxy wasn't up to snuff (so to speak) and had to be upgraded to be more effective during the war . Having said all this , this vid is an interesting take on what went down . 🖖

It's unclear how many Galaxy-class ships Starfleet constructed. But you have to remember that Starfleet's philosophy wasn't winning wars or defeating enemy species, but holding them off until they could win them over as allies. That reflected the pacifistic beliefs of Gene Roddenberry, whose vision of the future was unbearably naive. That's why DS9 was the best of the Trek series, precisely because it depicted a far more realistic view of what that future would look like. Ron Moore could only work from the foundation Roddenberry laid.

When the Federation wants to or needs to blow things up, it can. When even starships dedicated to exploration can go toe-to-toe with the best warships other governments have to offer, an angry--or scared--Federation is probably not something you want to provoke. But even a partial militarization of Starfleet to combat-centric starships goes against Federation ideals. It's those ideals which, imo, can be the greatest weakness such as in dealing with the Cardassians. The Prime Directive, specifically. The 'non-interference' bullshit that can do more harm than good. The Federation didn't need to go full-blitz on Cardassia. Technologically superior and resource rich, it could have offered the Union real solutions to its problems. Peaceful alternatives to aggressive expansion to fulfill its needs. When you have technology that can provide almost anything a society needs, opting for even limited conflict instead of sharing it--because, ya know, that would violate the precious Prime Directive--is just stupid. Billions ended up dying because the Federation hamstrung itself with a policy preventing it from helping when it could.

The problem with your whole argument is your american point of view. Just because you've alot of "military" equipment, doesn't mean you have to use it as a methode to influence and persuade other nations to your liking. Starfleet isn't simply a military organisation and therefore starships are not purely built for combat. Yes they can defend them selfs and in chase of the larger ships also other instalations or systems but that is not their primary purpose. If one follows this mindset than it is easy to understand why the conflict between the Union and Starfleet took so long. Starfleet doesn't fight battles or wars simply to defeat an enemy. It fights them to defend it self and to get the opposing party to the table in order to negotiate a treaty. Best example: look what Picard did during the first encounter with a Borg ship or what Kirk did during his first encounter with the Romulans. The Federation is not the USA and Starfleet isn't the US Navy so you can't judge Starfleet/Federation by current military or social standards back in the US.

I love how Lore Reloaded seems to miss the message that Star Trek was trying to convey. MIGHT DOESN'T ALWAYS MAKE RIGHT. Failed on this one too

You literally sound just like Sam Riegel from Critical Role, don't know if anyone has made that connection yet.

the reason why the federa has decided not to be involved in the dominion war, was because of the Prime directive.

You say all this like its so simple. War is a serious business siding against the Klingons would be a serious loss of life and attacking the cardassians isn't going to happen. You can't blame the federation. Also nebula class were pretty strong

The Federation wouldn't wreck an enemy's infrastructure/economy just to make things safe for them. Not particularly a pragmatic approach, but idealistic nonetheless.