I was really hoping Steve would acknowledge how Math vs Pipebomb has taken over WrestleTalk the last several months, but it seems like Going in RAW is on their own island 😢
Its always hard to tell if something has "taken over WrestleTalk" or if its just Oli not knowing when to stop flogging the dead horse - his usual M.O. is run something 2-3 months past its expiration date. That said, its not often you'd see a shirt selling that somebody designed only using Windows Notepad...
Yeah it started because they did one of their list videos where they voted for the best promo in wrestling and Luke very unironically voted Stenier Maths as Number 1. And this popped Ollie Davis brain! The man can't handle it
My favorite part of Luke Owen's argument for Steiner Math > Pipebomb is that the Pipebomb defined CM Punk (possibly even defined a specific era of WWE), but Steiner Math defined a promotion. When people think of TNA, one of the first (if not the first) thing they think of is Steiner Math. Also the math in Steiner Math is accurate
I think the absurdity and high energy of Steiner Math just makes it top. It's something I can rewatch and even show people who don't watch wrestling, I don't think I can do that with the pipebomb and there are some bars in the pipebomb that aged kindof poorly too
Funny doesn’t necessarily means it’s the greatest. The same way I can show any non-wrestling fans the video of Santina Marella winning that battle royale at Mania and they’ll be somewhat entertained. Pipebomb led to your favourite indie wrestlers like Bryan, Rollins, Ambrose, Zayn, Owens, etc. to be taken seriously in WWE.
Personally Hard Times is my favorite promo and it’s not even close. I think Punk went too personal with the pipe bomb and Steiner math was too nonsensical. Hard times is a wrestling promo. Not airing out grievances or roid rage.
If there was a Mount Rushmore for promos, both the Pipebomb and Steiner Math belong on it. They tick different boxes though. The way I see it, the Pipebomb is the better wrestling promo, but Steiner Math broke out of wrestling more through sheer infamy. As someone with loads of non-wrestling fans, none of them ask me to recall the Pipebomb, but the one thing they want me to recite is Steiner Math. I'd love to talk about a Mount Rushmore of promos, I'd put Pipebomb, Austin 3:16, Hard Times and Steiner Math on there. Feels weird not including The Rock. He has so many 9/10 promos, he delivers constantly and consistently. Just no one iconic promo
Might be a hot take, but my top promo of all time is Jay Lethal/Ric Flair woo off. It's interesting that two of the top promos of all time were in TNA.
I understand that most of the praise for Steiner math is Steve’s taste just being what it is, but the greatest promo of all time is CM punk turning his back on ROH with the “the greatest trick the devil ever played.” Promo. Promo was so good that it impacted the rest of punk’s career and will inevitably inform the heel turn when we do get it.
One of the best ways they handled a babyface champion was Hangman Page. They were able to tell a story of him as champion, continually killing himself, leaving it all in the ring. It ended with it taking its toll, and him losing the title from just being too beat up. Honestly, Adam Page is one of the top two wrestlers in AEW; and they just kind of shoved him into the background. If anyone needs to look at WWE, it's him. It's like everything else. If you tell it right, you can have a babyface hold it for a while. The problem is, it's just easier to have a story of the chase, with the heel as champion. Heels are just easier to write.
I feel like Swerve has an interesting potential direction as a Babyface champion, especially with Hangman as foil Having to face penance for the things he did on the way up and seeing the effects of his own actions.
Thing is, what did the Pipebomb actually change? Sure, it rose Punk's stock, but no one else really benefitted from it. WWE still held John Cena and Randy Orton over Punk throughout the rest of his career.
By that same logic, Steiner Math did NOTHING for TNA or the story it was involved in. The Pipebomb actually had a good follow through AND elevated a talent through it, both things being huge factors in what makes a great promo. 🤷♂️
@napalmblaziken Punk? 😂 He became one of the top guys in the company after it and the match at MitB, which is considered one of the best matches in WWE.
@shortesnameofalltime It doesn't define a promotion the way you think it does, bud. 🤦♂️😂 Wrestling fans don't pull Steiner Math up when talking about what makes TNA as incredible as it is. It's an entertaining promo, but it doesn't elevate anything. And up until it became an internet meme, wrestling fans constantly dragged and made fun of it. People outside of wrestling started talking about how hilarious it was, and all of a sudden it was great.
I prefer Steiner Math over the pipe bomb since I like being able to laugh more. I can go back to something like that way more often since I can quote it to friends and get them to laugh because of just how powerfully stupid it is.
Punk stands against what the pipe bomb means today and is currently marketed as a "changed man." Scott Steiner believes in what he said and still believes it. Math > Pipebomb
One isn’t better than the other. But honestly I’ve never seen the pipebomb show up online since I saw it live on tv. But Steiner math shows up multiple times a year in my feeds in some way.
"Dear God, my name's Billy" is probably the best Rock promo. As for Steiner Math, you can learn everything you need to know about Scott Steiner from just that promo.
Rock’s best promo hands down (imo) is the “Billy Gunn prayer” A close second would be the promo where he impersonated Taker, Angle, Rikishi, Austin, etc. And waaaay funny is Evil Stone Cold’s “Do You Trust Me” promo and his elongated “Kurt Angle’s medals” promo.
@@cdtnplyr Was that the Vickie song promo? That was classic. How could I forget Booker T’s “Coming for You” promo? Lol. That’s an instant replay classic as well.
If Punk added Kurt Angle into the mix then maybe he might come close to the education that the big booty daddy, delivered that wholesome day on TNA TV and became a bonfide legend. Holla! If ya hear me! Wroof Wroof.
If wrestling promos were Arnold movies, Steiner Math is Commando and Pipe bomb is Terminator. It all depends on if you want something silly but entertaining or something serious but entertaining.
Three of the rocks best promos ever imo is his promo about Billy gunn, The Radicalz, and Kurt angle with stephanie mcmahon. For context on the last one look up "the rock promo 10/19/2000"
MJF said in the promo When Samoa Joe beat him, the fans chanted Thank you Joe. Was the reason for his attitude. And he is looking at they are cheering for Swerve and Ospreay now, he has been forgotten, that is just the take on it, but he did say the part about the fans and Samoa Joe.
Steiner Math IS the better promo; the numbers don't lie, nor do they whine about the company not revolving around them... As for my own hot take, I've noticed other RU-vid wrestling personalities who obviously grew up on WCW and seem to put those years on a pedestal, unable to give it a realistic looking-back in the way they do The Attitude Era, whether it's deserved or not (considering it had way too many cartoon characters and a lot of lame in-ring action). Attitude Era fans are guilty of that too, but it seems like THAT gets a finger-wagging due to its subject matter (which, again, whether it's deserved or not), and yet even the dumbest WCW pablum gets glossed over or overlooked like it's not as big an issue. Maybe not to THEM, but to me you can't exactly shit on something and be unable to do the same with something seen as bad in its own right due to your own rose-tinted shades. Feels hypocritical. Hope some of that makes sense. I literally just woke up from a post-work nap and might be a bit delirious.
My top promos are (in no order) Zandig Jeezus!, Austin 3:16, Salmon Suit Mark Henry, Pipe Bomb, & Steiner Math Also, I think Rock's best promo is his song to Vickie Guerrero
Steiner Math and the Pipebomb represent both ends of the spectrum of promos, personally I like Steiner Math a lil bit more but, they are both the best at what they do and that is entertain.
3:05 Most of Rocks promos are one time stand up bits in which he insults someone. he hasn't really cemented a promo in history like others have in my opinion. The closest that comes is honestly really recent. That Fuck Your Story promo in Insta? Yeah that goes hard and it's not played for laughs. I think Fuck Your Story Cody is Rocks greatest promo.
Actually the math in Steiner math is perfect. For me that’s the best part because it means he thought about it, still went out and did it and it still makes no sense
I think I prefer Steiner Math honestly. I find it more entertaining to watch and I value that more than the impact that the pipebomb had. Also, you can show the steiner math promo to anyone and they will get why it's a fun promo but if you show someone the pipebomb, you kinda have to explain why it's a great promo. It doesn't stand as much on its own without knowing who the people involved are.
Rock's best promo? Backlash 2003. He introduced the term "whisker biscuit" while also bringing up a cockatoo's ass and catching Terri Runnels looking at his "strudel."
Here's why math > pipebomb Pipebomb isn't even punk's best promo of that "summer of punk" the one he had a week later is better, the one he had with vince demanding ice cream bars and apologies is better... math is objectively steiner's best promo and it's a masterpiece.
You know what's a better comparison? Which is more significant? The Pipebomb or Austin 3:16 at King of the Ring or the finish of Bret vs Austin at Mania 13? Now that's an argument that actually can have some great discourse. *kicks Steiner Math out the window*
Hangman is fantastic, I’ve really grown to like him over the years. His promos are incredible and also him coming out of the face tunnel was a really good touch to add to his character
You love bullshit but hate the truth? You hate when people cut great, impactful promos that actually mean something with a lot of it actually becoming more and more accurate and that somehow ties to the modern wrestling business? But Steiner cutting a non sensible promo is what you love about pro wrestling? Did he even win that match? I don't think some of you actually give a shit about the business. I think some of you just want non sensible entertainment that means absolutely nothing.
@@TheRealEclipse1the pipe bomb was nothing more than a grown man crying about not getting what he wanted and what he thinks was wrong, fast forward and punk is the type of wrestler he was complaining about. Punk pipe bomb was nothing more than a toddler having a tantrum.
Honestly... this, which is wild because its not from his "Prime" run. But that run is packed with roughly equally amazing or hilarious promos, but similar ones. This was so different than anything else Rock had ever done before and may ever do after this. Good answer, I was stumped (Maybe his promo before Armageddon 2000)
@@batmaniac4life285 I’ll have to watch it again, but I think he started it off with a singalong. Going from comedy to deadly serious in a way we haven’t seen from him ever was a thing of beauty
Fully understand the need to be flexible with the streaming schedule. I love NXT, but I won't be surprised if you guys always do it taped or end up dropping it again. Hope the viewership keeps steady and improves to make it worthwhile to continue doing it live though.
@@MahkyVmedia1 he didn't change anything. That's in the minds of some fan's. There was no changes till way after that pipe bomb and most likely was going to happen anyway as time's change and changes in management, after 40+ year's of watching wrestling I would say my knowledge is better than a lot of fan's.
I disagree with the comparison of the title and story thing with the academy awards. It's a bad comparison because most movies people revisit aren't even up for academy awards and those that win most people usually don't revisit, if they even remember who won on a given year. It's the movie itself that makes people want to watch it, not what award it wins and it's the same for wrestling.
I think seeing an evolution in MJF could be interesting, but I also think something about him never changing is in its own way a sad tragedy, he as a person is stuck in a state of arrested development because his childhood trauma made him unable to trust, he has resigned himself to always being an asshole because it’s the only way he feels he can protect himself from the world and move forward in his career. I get staying the same on screen May be boring for the viewer, but the fact he(MJF) also refuses to change is a story beat on its own.
I agree that Cody is the only one that made AEW suffer, but that is ONLY because AEW didn't know how to book Jade and especially not Ethan. They weren't using them well or at all sometimes.
If a babyface is entertaining without the crutch of the underdog and sympathy storytelling...people will still be invested. Cody just isnt entertaining. He has no character other then being a former midcarder and son of Dusty. The thing you said about MJF can be said about Cody. He's the same guy that was in AEW. Only thing he added was 1 catch phrase.
Taking it seriously Steiner math is comedic meme today. Punk and his pipe bomb whether work or shoot, I think it's a bit of both, exposed some hard truths about the business and how Vince was holding back a lot of talent that wasn't seeded from his own company but made their name somewhere else before coming to the company. Love it or hated it, and trust me at the time as a huge Fed fan, I hated what punk had to say because I just didn't want to think about it. I didn't want to think that my favourite wrestlers like Randy Orton and Triple H were involved in politicking to get the best bookings possible while at the same time pushing down upcoming talent like Daniel Bryan and Punk himself from the main event scene. Truth is what Punk did was very important not just to WWE but to Wrestling as whole, industry and fandom. I firmly believe that the Yes movement doesn't get as big without the Pipebomb and I honestly believe that The Paul Levesques era doesn't exist without the Pipebomb. I'm sure that Triple H took some queues from punk that he then used in his Black and Gold NXT days and then in the main roster when he took over. Punks Pipebomb is important and almost revolutionary. Steiner Math is just funny. So Pipebomb wins.
The live schedule isn't that big of a deal but maybe for those days you guys aren't live you can do premier streams so us friendos can still hang out and b.s in the chat?
Hot take maybe: the reveal of who attacked mjf and was wearing the mask was worse than the reveal of who was raw gm. And his new stable is just as impactful as retribution was
@@elchomper.1063 bro I’m not talking about who was in it I’m talking about how it was handled versus the hype it got. No one was all that hyped about the gm everyone was hyped about the devil reveal and it ended up being obvious as hell and went nowhere at all. Now the stables is doing what exactly and Adam Cole is doing what exactly?
