Stellaris Traditions Tier List 

Diplomacy for a fanatic purifier is ... why-the-heck-is-it-even-an-option tier.

Funny how those small buffs to ships make Subterfuge go C tier. Would probably be the very bottom without it.

i kept saying "unless your a void dweller" only to have montu say it 2 seconds later

I would argue that starbase influence cost reduction, if stacked with some other reductions can be very potent. Of course this still puts expansion into the "fine" position of needing to be picked first to matter the most, but when the influence cost of a new starbase is at 30-something, you can build 3 for the price of one and just expand outwards like crazy in the initial rush for space. I can't count the number of times i have been able to rush forward and cut someone off into their own tiny bubble of space, while i then was able to easily gobble 5x as much space real estate as any of my neighbors had. (Might actually explain why the empire size reduction is there, as it takes time to get more of those scientists to counter the impact that that sort of real estate has on you)

I have a bit of a different view on expansion. It's a good "training wheels" tradition for new players as the bonuses help mitigate the problems they tend to run into. They did for me. The influence reduction is good when you don't know the relative value of a systems resources yet and spam starbases. It also helps you race for an important choke point if your planning isn't super great. The extra pop helps mitigate resource shortages when people are trying to figure out how the early game economy works, when pops are at their most significant. The sprawl reduction is significant when someone doesn't know how important early labs are And the extra district is good when you don't understand terraforming or habitability modifiers and need to make the most out of a few high compatability planets. Most of these advantages pale naturally as you improve at the game, but it really smooths out the early game experience for a newcomer. I still used to take it occasionally for the extra districts but now that orbital rings exist I fear I must retire it with a bittersweet smile, Happy Trails Expansion, our travels together were lovely

To me, Discovery will ALWAYS be my first pick. Being able to survey systems faster, and therefore claim them before anyone else is always useful, and of course extra research alternative and research speed in the early game, carried through to late game is extremely valuable.

I’ve found that playing as a hegemonic overlord with the subterranean origin, adaptability and unyielding made my choke points with planets virtually unbreakable

"Say the line Montu!" "Prosperity is the best tradition in the game" "YAAAAAY!"

2:30 By far the most important is that +1 pop at establishment. Establishing a colony with all it's nececcities is by far the hardest part.

Love these tier lists. Thank you for doing them so frequently, so everytime i come back to play the game im aware what is good or bad

I feel you're underselling the compounding effect that expansion has. Assuming you have two guaranteed worlds, starting off with extra pops can allow you to bring these colonies into the beneficial logistical pop growth curve years faster (since it takes years to grow a pop) than if you didn't have it (assuming you don't resettle any pops). This snowball effect compounds exponentially, dwarfing the economic benefit of the other traditions (aside from prosperity). Stellaris is a snowballing game. While the other traditions may be more prevalent in the mid-late game in terms of benefit, none supercede Expansion in its early-game bonuses, hence its vitality as a first pick (contending with discovery or perhaps mercantile for some trade builds).

When I saw the Evade Chance and Tracking in the Subterfuge tree, my first thought was they probably added that in to push it up from handsdown the most useless tradition. However I do think it fits in a thematic sense, you are learning about the enemy, and by studying them and their capabilities you learn how to better evade their shots and also their movement patterns making them easier to hit, in an RP sense it works.

I think your A tier is bang on. I hadn't thought of those benefits from the defensive tree as being as useful as when you laid it out. Will have to try it out. Thanks Montu for teaching me something new. Not being a competitive player rather doing RP stuff this passed me by.

The Subterfuge tradition is like EU4s Espionage idea

Yes, I watched the entire video. Thank you very much for your great work. 🙂 Coming back after a long break from the game I had to discover myself that Expansion has fallen so far. Since then I was very unsure which traditions to pick and your video helped immensely (and reflects a surprising amount of my assessments).

Expansion really depends on how many planets you find early. If you are a robot and have 6-8 planets nearby, Expansion gives 6-8 extra pops! That is a major boost at game start.

Expansion, when coupled with Xenophobe (especially Fanatic-level) is a tremendous boon, because you are talking about spreading out as fast as possible. And with Overlord, the idea, the notion, of having multiple vassals is a very real possibility, and a very useful one too. So I don't think it should be dismissed too much Adaptability, I think what it needs is either a reduction in cost to terraform OR a reduction in time to do so. I think that would provide far more of a useful boon than some sad little Resettlement cost. Instead of Planetary Prospecting being random, I think it being more a choice would make it far more potent, with perhaps a higher cost. Domination is good if playing with something like Remnants, as it gives you an immediate reduction in clear-blocker cost, and thus for your Relic world you begin on, gives you far quicker access to not only the districts you have but the extra bonuses that can come from them. Diplomacy is pretty much a necessity if you want to even try to become Custodian, especially if going for Galactic Emperor. Of course you can get it without, and having a powerful Federation that you control can help push things your way. Not impossible without it, but it can be far harder. You pretty much have to play politics to some degree if you want to go that route. Supremacy is pretty much a self-nerf if you do not take it. It's the one tree I'd say anyone should take. Even the most hippie-dippie, Tree of Life-huggin, Fanatic Pacifists should take Supremacy. Even if it's the last one you pick. The use it provides is simply far too much to ignore, and not having it to counter when others get it, means you are gonna be at a major disadvantage.

Discovery is an insta first pick, so I can scout out system to find planets to claim and choke points before anyone else can nab them. Supremacy is always one to pick for the war doctrines, no idea why you'd ever pass up on them.

On the topic of discovery, A small tip to remember: You no longer suffer penalties for taking another tree if you haven't finished a different one. So going discovery first, getting the extra survey speed, and then immediately finishing supremacy is a surprisingly effective "search and conquer" opener. Especially with the vassalization options added in overlord. Then you can always grab prosperity/merchantile third depending on preference, and/or finally finish discovery once the early game bonuses start falling away more for the mid game bonuses.

The greatest benefit of Unyielding is that it lets you have few ships at the start for longer (and before any defensive war, really), which takes a lot of pressure off your shoulders. Or, at least, it's really good for me. Also, I don't think additional ruler level cap is any good, because bonuses from ruler levels are nearly insignificant anyway. Wow, +5 edict fund per level! It's little early on and basically nothing afterwards. The main benefits of rules are traits and agendas.

Thanks my guy, I've been using your tier lists to get a feel for the mechanics in the game and judging traditions against one another is HARD. I would LOVE to see a theory-crafting series or even just a single video on stuff that you think would be a good addition to the game, could be an interesting and freeing topic. Either way, thanks for the vids.

I'd say domination is sleeper c tier. +30% worker output (the slave and worker outputs stack) is one of the largest eco boosts in traditions.

Montu could you do some shorts or quick guides on how to play certain empires and their differences for beginners? Kinda separate from the meta videos, moreso aimed for people who got the game from the free weekend

I appreciate that you've slowed down the info popup and let the tiers remain on screen for a few more seconds. I take screenshots of your full tierlists like this to refer to while I play, they're very helpful.

The happiness malus from extended shifts is kinda irrelevant with stratified economy or slavery since their happiness counts towards pop approval far less than your rulers/specialists

I applaud your bravery in placing Expansion into F. That's why I come to this channel, to challenge views I fail to review often enough.

Appropriation from Adaptability tree actually is -33% resettlement cost, wiki most be wrong on that one. Adaptability works relatively well for Subterranean empires

Great video, I was actually trying to find exactly this video yesterday. Keep up the good work.

I love this almost 1hour long videos, the production kept good through all the time. I had to watch it on the weekend though

The Dominations -33% blocker clear is good when you have Remnants origin. Lot of (expensive) blocker tiles to clear for quick early tech and artifacts. With the right governor it gets very cheap.

The finisher effect on Adaptability for Void Dwellers (which you just skipped over) is actually so good, that I'd argue it is A or S tier. Being able to get Research, Energy, or Mineral Districts on every single Habitat... well that's just perfect and will set you up for perfectly. You can go Synthetic Ascension and use planets purely for Industrial districts (using Ecumenopolis if you really want). This allows you to infinitely expand, because you're not limited to deposits in your space.

Montu, I genuinely don't think I'd enjoy Stellaris as much as I do without your videos! Seriously, no one else produces as much high quality, informational content for this game as you do, and I thank you for that!

Watched the whole vid, great info as always!

For the record, I'm still here at the 38 minute mark :) It's interesting that you completely gloss over the impact of early-game influence on rapid growth. Expansion traditions cuts the cost of building starbases by 10%, but Domination traditions adds half an influence per month, so those two will affect how quickly you can spread out and claim systems.

Thanks for the deep dive. Always good to see a breakdown like this. I would actually push Domination and Harmony up to B for their value to a range of builds because they give decent bonuses on their own and then the -10% pop sprawl modifier is really good for stacking. You can get 75%+ pop sprawl reduction if you stack enough modifiers(flat reduction, which does not count pop traits. it actually makes unruly even more irrelevant to your empire because of the way they multiply), which is absolutely game-changing as far as how much unity you need to finish your later tradition trees. And that's completely ignoring the small but noticeable tech gains and reduced edict cost.

Happy to see new tier lists with Overlord

Nice tier list, I too agree with the majority of the placements. One other good note about the defensive starbases tradition is that it's great for Necrohives because all the extra starbases provide food and energy. Food for your livestock and energy because of the solar panels, freeing up alot of technician jobs which your Necrohivers aren't good at anyway.

I'm so glad to see unyelding getting some love! As a more defensive player who does not play multiplayer, I find it very awesome.

I was with you through the entire video. As a returning player...holy hell everything is different. Gotta say there is a lot I miss but the game is so much better now. This video was very informative.

Watched the whole thing, so you know. I love your explanations.

Same, i also only get Expansion only to the 1 extra pop bit right at the beginning.

This made me rethink some things. Thanks for that.

I loved the opening clip. So fitting

I'm early for once.. nice video, was hoping for something like this for a while.

I don't think I'll be offended.... *Watches video*... Listen here you son of a b****!!!

My go-to strategy for Traditions: 1. Expansion because early-game influence is too valuable. 2. Discovery for research boost. 3(4).Diplomacy for federations/reducing influence cost. 4(3). Prosperity for that delicious resource bonus. 5. Supremacy for fleet build-up. 6. Harmony for leader lifespan, food, and -10% empire pop reduction. 7. Domination to cap off.

Not trying to make an argument about Expansion overall per se, but specifically for the -25% Empire Size from Systems/Colonies, Montu really blew past that as though it was nothing. But I just loaded up several save games and did the math. In the mid game era, this bonus translates to roughly +10-12% research speed and twice as much tradition unlock speed. Again, I'm not trying to make an argument for Expanion overall (though I do think it belongs higher than F tier), but is this perk for +10% research speed really a complete disregard?

You say expansion only has 2 good bits, the right side two, which yes when I first started learning the game is why I used to pick those two and then go full discovery generally but I think the influence reductions has got to be worth something, and especially early game where you want to edge out others for position and control of key systems. Now I've been just going Prosperity first generally, (obv it depends on empire) but I think more and more that getting those 3, or going full expansion and then prosperity might really be worthwhile no doubt you know a infinitely more about Stellaris than I do but a thought Thanks so much for teaching me so much about the game through your videos!

Love your videos❤️

Big fan of your videos! Is there anyway you could post a screenshot of all your tier lists somewhere for easier reference?

The main change I would make is to put Discovery at the top of S tier. I always take it as the first tradition tree, and I usually follow it up with Technological Ascendancy as the first perk to really get the research snowball going.

keep up the good work !

Extended shifts is great! Worker slaves get +20% output for only -10% happiness.

how is -10% influence for star bases minor?! when you pick the tradition early game you will have next to influence yet, so the reduction is a real god send, especially when you're like me and just keep expanding early on until you hit either space fauna, dead ends or borders

Always watch till the end. Montu gang for life.

Would be really nice to see a kind of deep dive into starbases and defense platforms

​ @Montu Plays A tutorial on how to micro, what it is and how to execute it would be amazing. I learned from watching min/maxers here on youtube but I have yet to see a formal video on what/how to micro and that is, in my opinion, what separates the good players from the great players. I have tried to teach others what I have learned but I am not the best teacher and some have taken to it more then others. I would love a video that explains it in detail and how to take that last big step into being a great Stellaris player so that I can link the video and then help them through it in game. Also if you want my opinion on what that video should entail and make use of my experience trying to teach others how to micro and where I seem to fail, I would love to sit down and just talk to you about it sometime.

I always grab Discovery into Boldly-Go first thing so I can use Map the Stars for all that survey speed. Then I go into whatever improves the situation I find myself in

Thank you for doing all this videos. They are very helpful. I'd love to see an updated version of this tier list. With all the new politics, statecraft, leader rework etc. I suspect that many things where added an switched around.

I made it all the way through the video. I'll agree with some of the other commenters that you may be undervaluing Expansion simply for the ability to snowball in the early game as well as the reduction in Influence cost for building new outposts, but in comparison to everything else available I think I get where you're coming from.

Keep helping me be a better player Montu!

That solid little bonus to hab upkeep was not known to me. Will be giving that a shot with my spamming! May have to refine my VD build

discovery and expansion first, I level both at once, starting with the exploration effects and then getting all the fancy reductions for star bases and the increase to colonies and pop growth before going back to finish discovery for the less important tech boni and then I just pick whatever I happen to need or want to go for really wanna go to war? supremacy; wanna make friends and get a federation going? diplomacy; etc.

thanks you changed my mind about some traditions.

watched this and tried starting with discovery instead of expansion and wow, what a difference. That massive bonus to survey speed through "To Boldly Go" and the "Map the Stars" edict allowed me to blitz my surrounding area and b-line my control to favorable choke-points. My bottleneck was my influence amount, causing me to start rivalries with the first two neighbors just for more influence. I probably just got really lucky with my races placement, but by the time the lines between my neighbors was set, I had closed my borders and cut off every other race from a massive chunk of the galaxy for me to claim at my leisure. Edit: I also doubled down on this strategy by starting with the auto-survey technology just for the survey speed. this just gave me so much area to expand into and more habitable planets to grab, I feel like it was worth the slight delay with my colonies growth

I’ve watched to the callout Montuwu. And I agree with your list although I don’t normally take Synchronicity as a normal empire until 5 or later when I’ve got the stuff I really want.

Coming back to the game after a long break and really appreciating all the tier lists you have, have helped fill the void that Stefan left. Do you plan on periodically updating them? Like maybe for the upcoming 3.8 patch? :D

Made it to And past 38:00 thank you for everything you do. Do you think you’d consider doing an updated necrophage and more importantly clone army guide for 3.4? I watched your pvp clone army video but when I tried it all my clones started dying off I made too many too fast lol. I love all your videos man thank you. And I totally missed the combat buffs in subterfuge that’ll go really well with massive crisis fleets.

Fiddler on the Roof. Now that's a classic I have not seen for a long time.

Every time, I rush expansion to get the reduction to starbase influence cost, and then go to discovery to get the additional survey speed. Then return to finish expansion, then finish discovery. Doing this, I can reliably expand outward strategically to claim chokepoint systems so that when I meet other empires I can close my borders to them and keep them from accessing large chunks of the galaxy, effectively claiming dozens of systems all for myself before I even build a stare base in an of them, and can focus purely on my economy without having to go to war for space and resources until much, much later.

Still with you at 38, gotta see it all through! To the stars!

Note: planetary prospecting from finishing the adaptability tree doesn't always give you one district. It unlocks a new blocker that can give you 1 to 3 districts. Of course, there's no way to control what you're going to get so it's a crap shoot.

Great video Montu, can someone tell me what games or shows the cutscenes are from? Are they actually from Stellaris somehow?

Awesome video. I rate adaptability higher though as it is not easy in some situations to get either max adaptability or enough species to fill in the blanks. If you are playing a race that has only one species this is a lot stronger. Also if you are running the psychic ascencion you are pretty limited on pushing this up also. For me I would put this as B tier. Because as you point out frequently the most important resource is pops and this tree lets you have more pops on more planets. Also if you are playing ironman and you have really bad luck at the start and dont have a good mining/agri/energy world that prospecting for extra resources really helps you early for greater specialisation and to help prevent missing something. Overall a great video though. Really made me think about the spy tree as those extra fixed bonusses to all your ships is really strong.

I commented after liking the video, as is tradition... A wonderful day for Montu, and therefore, the world.

I like how there is like 6 traditons he said take as you first, second, and maybe third

I always go for discovery first, without expection. Scanning and grabbing choke points and having anomaly reseach in those systems is nice when you take the systems. those anomlies give nice bonuses and it gives your scienceships something to do during the midgame :)

Really think you're underselling Expansion. If it's your 1st or 2nd pick, it will pay off fantastically by the late game. Starting every colony with 2-pops & 10% faster pop growth is great for your production. The finisher forgoes needing to build an unnecessary city district on mining, generator, and agricultural worlds just to get max building slots. It makes a notable difference across multiple planets. It's certainly not worse than Subterfuge, at the least.

I personally think you are underrating the reduced star base influence cost of expansion because influence is almost always the limiting factor early game. But i do have a question, does the stacked orbital bombardment damage reductions work against crises orbital bombardments? I have had games where they appear next to me and walk though my fortress worlds like any other world.

I always watch these videos in full.

I noticed you mentioning Void Dwellers a lot when talking about Adaptability and Expansion. What would you rank those tradition trees for them specifically, as opposed to everyone in general? C tier, B tier, or still down in F?

I find that Subterfuge is a pretty comfy opener for a Tall playstyle vs AI- not necessarily optimal, but very convenient! The total +2 Codebreaking means you can effectively call dibs on any First Contacts, letting you get a nice chunk of Influence to help you compete with neighbouring empires for those first few vital systems. On top of that, getting spy networks set up quickly and easily on AI in the early game is very useful- it lets you quickly identify the traits of other Empires so you can better evaluate your expansion plans, and as long as you've got good alloy production, you can get enough warning of an invasion to focus on expansion and invest materials in the military reactively rather than proactively. It's pretty easy to just build ships and build up your border starbase(s) until an enemy empire backs off!

There is one very nice use of the versatility tree as a genocidal robot, once you have all the territory you want but still want to be raiding (always want to be raiding). You can take a planet, move all but one pop to your processing centers to purge, then liquidate all the buildings and districts for minerals. Remaining pop will die and you leave an empty planet behind that no longer belongs to anyone, pure profit. Also ai will probably recolonize it and you can come back a few decades later and harvest again.

Strange my first pick for tradition was always discovery for the Buffs for tech and survey speed

I do like how the lower tier traditions are fully explained rather than just listing the downsides, really puts into perspective player values and what is looked for when it comes to such an important decision

i would argue that prosperity's allowing 2 clerks per city district is better than you say because they also add +2 amenities per job, and if you have 3-4 city districts thats already a nice little amount of bonus pop happiness. obviously bonus pop happiness increases stability which increases production.

I’m always expecting Xzibit to turn up in one of your videos saying “I hear you like Tier Lists.”

Lol, love the Fiddler on the Roof meme!

Fiddler on the roof reference, instant like.

Domination is incredibly good with the not so good syncretic evolution start. Slaves also benefit from their specific job class they are in along with slave benefits (for instance with indentured servitude slaves would still gain the boost from meritocracy in specialist positions). So with the edict extended shifts from domination you get a boost of 20% from the edict and you also get the added 10% from the workplace motivator tradition on it's own. Add that with the 10% worker output bonus from serviles, 5% from slave proccesing facilities, and (You should be doing this with your serviles) 5% worker output from very strong trait you get a 160% percent efficent working slave class. You could also get a leader with slave optimization for an added 10%, and 10% from an iron fist governor so you can basically get 180% efficent slaves if you keep adding buffs so yeah. Edit: forgot about the buff from chattel slavery slave type so it is actually plus 170% or 190%

Espionage would be great if, like Master of Orion (I, best Orion) you could not get some techs because they are not in your tech tree or even in Master of Orion II, because you have to pick one or another. So you would have to trade or steal the missing techs!

Seeing this video a hundred years into my first game. I've got those F tiers fully completed xD

Its probably a little etheral numbercrunching but enforcers provide 2 defensive armies each and thus with police state, unyielding and/or Domination can end up producing up to 3 Unity net and 1 stability each. Only two of these unity-points benefit from job-boni but at this point they are effectively 1 unity short of the actual bureaucrat but without upkeep. Its actually a pretty rounded out package if you run Slaves that usually produces a little more crime than other builds.

I always thought Expansion was a great one to take as the first one, but when you put it that way it makes sense. Also, I watched the full thing!

I personally dont decide the traits of my empire and species based on how good they are but rather on how fun i think they will be

Void Dwellers with two trade stations early on + mercantile is pretty silly. You can buy the minerals, you can afford to ressetle to get your habitat buildings up early too. Great stuff.

I always enjoy your tier lists. I don't know if Expansion belongs in F tier. It used to be an auto-pick for me as well, but I am currently 35 years into a megacorp game where I didn't take it and I don't think I've really missed it. So I'm no longer going to treat it as a auto-pick, certainly.

traditions are a much tougher choice then they used to be, i followed your psionic rush build, choosing prosperity, discovery, then supremacy. I was wondering if you had recommendations for the rest of the traditions and what order you would take them.

I'd think that domination and harmony would be higher up. Less empire sprawl from pops and more edict fund from both, more stability, lifespan and governing ethics attraction as well as unemployed demote reduction from harmony and more influence, ruler level cap and worker output from domination. Both very handy, especially with 3.3's changes to sprawl.

Personally I think Discovery is a mandatory first-pick unless you're going for a specific Tradition build. The extra leader experience and levelcap, plus the extra research bonuses can really help you snowball. This is especially true in the early game when your empire size isn't big enough to give you penalties to research costs, so all of these bonuses have a lot bigger of an impact.