“Out beyond ideas of wrongdoing and right doing, there is a field. I’ll meet you there. When the soul lies down in that grass, the world is too full to talk about. Ideas, language, even the phrase “each other” doesn’t make any sense.” - Mevlana Jelaluddin Rumi 🖤
Stephen is a gem, and it is therefore so disappointing to hear him take a strong position at the same time as he is claiming to not take a position. The "anti-vax brigade". C'mon man. You are a Canadian. You heard our PM call patriotic Canadians "fringe minority, racist, misogynist with unacceptable views" just because they want to exercise the right of informed consent to refuse experimental treatment for Covid.
Nailed it Stephen is a living legend I’m surprised he’s never made the connection that a death phobic society is easy to control using the fear of death.
Gabor Mate also expressed a contradiction of his own intellectual and psyche messages during this event and expressed harmful ill-conceived judgements naming the unvaxxed as people acting out trauma. The awakening takes time, and some of our guides are mind control targets; and many of us have to process the loss of trust and respect we once held for people we respected and cared about.
It is incumbent on all artists living in a scientific and high tech society to understand deeply what science actually is, ie the scientific method of enquiry. It is quite clear that SJ does not understand this method of enquiry, which is not just used in science, it’s used in all creative methods of enquiry. I second Erica Shugart’s comment below, adding that it is not for the young to make sacrifices for the old over such a long period of time as this pandemic has been. Collectivism and the greater good philosophy demands sacrifice, it led humanity down very dark paths in the 20th century. There is major scientific debate going on at the present time around covid, lockdowns, vaccines. But it is only the voices of SJ’s side that are heard by most people.
“The missed opportunity we had when the world shut down and all got quiet… blah blah blah”... these are the delusional words of people during this time who had a lot of privilege and zero perspective and could sit comfortably at home and dream.. not one of them ever answers what would’ve happened if we "seized the moment" in their dreamed-of way.. and that’s because it was a coping fantasy of the privileged. They don't have an actual real answer. Meanwhile the less privileged stared down the barrel of reality and collapse... In reality it would have been utter destruction if everyone had completely submitted and no one had pushed back. ...I know this... While Stephen Jenkinson stayed comfortably, philosophically, and self-righteously at home, by June 2020 3,000 Nepalese people had already died of starvation on the Nepal/India border because they were unable to return home in their routine work-life travels due to lockdowns. And that's just one impoverished international border in one direction, and very early on... But their personal freedoms are less important than collective global protocols I guess, and so are those of the 20 million or so excess people that died of starvation by the end of 2020 due to the economic effects of lockdowns. There have only been whisperings of that genocide, and it will go unnoticed until people actually wake up and stop drinking the cool-aid.
Thank you for this interview. Living in the U.S., I've heard about goon squads in the streets of Australian cities, heavy handed vaccine mandates/passports in many countries (when the vaccine is not excellently effective and people who have taken it are showing to be as contagious when infected). I've cringed watching Trudeau speak about those heretical and imagined "anti-vaxxers" as being "wrong." I've noticed suppressed public discussion of death tolls from other illnesses/endemic viruses that would help cradle a more nuanced, elongated, "from the tree" perspective here, suppressed discussion/research into preventative medicines, suppressed adverse affects of these vaccines, suppressed discussion of accessible healthcare, etc. etc. And so, I think I understand why you changed the direction of this discussion towards "art." I'm likely confused about his use of "god" here, but it seems that an unwanted "god" further revealing the mortality or exacerbating the death phobia of people would warrant authoritative/invasive measures to get rid of immediately and/or simply become the excuse to promulgate authoritative, invasive measures. One dominant narrative asserts that people disbelieve covid, but that effectively allows the dismissal of more nuanced concerns about the hyper-reactive, authoritative, patriarchal-like problem solving, getting-rid-of impulses towards something as mysterious and powerful as this pathogen. I would submit to you, indeed, submitting responsibility and cradling impersonal freedom is good and adult. And, discernment around the nature and the "who" of submitting is equally responsible and adult. Discernment of where dominant narratives stand-in for "gods" is helpful in cradling ambivalence. Scientism and the merging of state with the corporation are integral here and are playing their part on this pandemic god stage. Why the resistance to letting this pandemic play its role and alchemize into the endemic that it wants to be?
btw, I am 40 and wrote/published my first book of poems within the first 9 months after giving birth to my son a year ago. I both wrote and published this book within the year of Covid. I guess I was "set upon." In hindsight, I'm ambivalent about publishing something as a beginner. I struggle with worthiness and question my impatience. I am appreciating Jenkinson's bit about "expression" here, a welcome departure from how I have previously conceived of it. "The culture appears, and the artist doesn't." Great teaching. Since writing this book (Water Invites Heaven To Sink), my poems are much closer to this sentiment. I'm catching on. Thank you.
@@ericashugart8859 Hey Erica, sorry for the late reply! It's great to have a fellow poet following along with my work here. I'm completely new to many of the concepts that Stephen and I spoke about, but it sounds as though you have done the work! All I can say is that it makes sense to me that when we engage in the "mytho-poetic" traditions that Stephen speaks about, it is easier to understand why we might say that a new or old god has emerged on the scene and now poses a threat to our common humanity. If, for example, you're familiar with the Old Testament prophetic writings, then the suggestion that our world is becoming overrun with idol worship is not a mystery to you, and if you further have studied the nature of the prophets and the core of their messages/where those messages were derived from, then it makes sense that we see many wise people today coming out of the woodwork to warn humanity of some extremely rough roads ahead. I think I've had an experience similar to yours, Erica, in that I really began my poetic writing journey during covid, and the messages flowing through seem earily relevant and important. Stephen said that art is not self expression, but rather it is a public service, and that it only becomes self-expression if the artist is dealing with personal issues that are the same as the culture's issues. Perhaps this is the spot I find myself in. Erica, if you're interested, this Friday I'm hosting a live interview with Sharon Lebell where we'll be discussing my first book - The Poet & The Sage. If you're interested, I think you could offer some great insights in our discussion! Register here if you're up for it: zoom.us/meeting/register/tJUlduCupj8tHN3cj1HuTcbYgS6wo6rqomPC
@@ericashugart8859 Well then, you were, as you say “set upon” and you’ve “answered the call” as they say. So hopefully the struggle is now behind you regarding your worthiness and “beginnership” (new word). Something about a cultural catastrophe the likes of this plague, calls to people. Not everyone responds in kind. But you have advanced your wonderings in to the world, in its grave time of need. I haven’t read your book, obviously, so there’s no critique. A moot thought indeed. That said I’m sending praise your way, that you heard and responded to a call for much needed sanity in the world.
