@@LeonXfilm Well, i collect hifi since i had 13 years old. I have now 53 years old. In 1988 i bought a house just to store it and i`m a "normal guy". Cheers
i came here as a guitar player and the guitar is rooted in tube amplification. the "clean headroom" of a well-made tube amp is unlike anything else. it is so fat and deep and round. the top-end is brilliant but not painful; the bottom is resonant but not mud. it's so hard to explain. anyhow now i'm exploring high-fidelity stereo stuff... this is a *great* channel.
Another guitar gear head here. Love tubes but don’t like the maintenance. However, I’m not a gigging musician, so my Marshall purchased in 2001 hasn’t needed it yet. The only solid state guitar amp I’ve ever really liked are the Peavey Transtube Bandit series.
When I was a teen in the early 80's, I bought an Emerson floor model record player off an elderly couple. It was a small box with two 12" speakers,and two 5" tweeters. It was incredibly efficient in size. The speakers were placed diagonally on a small board in the front. Above the speakers was three knobs, Volume, treble, bass, mounted on a gold colored slat of aluminum. There was a Voice of music turntable inside, with a PowerPoint crystal cartridge. The amp had four tubes, an 5Y3 rectifier, an 12ax7 driver,preamp and two push/ pull 6v6's. There were small screw on legs, as was the style in 1957, the year of manufacture. The sound was incredible!!! Monaural one channel, and blaring hi fi . Full rich tones at every frequency. I took it to a huge dance hall were my cousin was having her wedding reception. A DJ wanted like 750 bucks, I was an avid record collector, and had plenty of records. There was a concern that this little box that sat on four 6" inch legs, wouldn't be loud enough to fill the huge hall with enough sound to override all the noise, and talking, for dancing. It turned out it was too much!!! People on the opposite side of the wall asked if it could be turned down a bit, the vibrations were reverberating, and people couldn't hear each other talk. I have had many different systems since then, but nothing can surpass the charm, of the sound that, that small record player created. It was destroyed eventually by a family member's stupidity, and negligence....sigh!!! Been looking for another ever since.
Thomas, thanks for your most informative description of the difference in solid state and tubes. About a year ago I switched to a Primaluna Dialogue Premium Integrated amp with kt-120 output tubes. I was impressed with the improved sound but could not define how listening to my system was so much more enjoyable. After viewing your video and listening to music with your comments in mind I finally get it. Thanks and keep up good work.
I've been into Hi-Fi for more than 40 years and favorite sound is the tube sound or the tube/solid-state combo. There are some solid state units that are holographic in sound but they do come at a price. Companies designing solid state amps that employ mirror distortion correction and other special circuits is a step in the right direction [Electrocompaniet, Hagel, Lavardin, etc.] and I hope that that technology continues to the point where solid state equals and surpasses the classic tube sound. An amplifier in the $1500-$3000 range is very doable using good and or premium parts, believe me! Thomas, don't worry about trying to describe aspects of sound-it is not easy to do. If you think you are being redundant, don't worry about it- that's fine and somtimes repeating something is done for emphasis to drive home a point. I thought Thomas did a fine job painting word pictures describing sound. THOMAS -keep up the good work!
I have the same amp, and I’m currently running KT120’s. I am going back and forth between KT120 and EL34. The KT120 provides more Oomph, but the EL34 provides more purity. I will probably go back and forth forever; I just can’t make up my mind.
I grew up with vacuum tube audio. Grundig and brands of that era. Had always loved the sound. Then I joined a band. The amps were all tubes. It had that special sound. Can't explain it. Later on came solid state. I had a few sold and gave away a few. Not terribly expensive ones. Last year I met an old friend who is a wizard with electronics. I showed him a DIY kit and asked him if he can improve in it. So I bought the kit he took it and after a month or so brought it back to me. It was a cheap preamp. I have a solid state power amp set it up with my wharfedales and am I a very happy man! It sounded realistic. Dynamic. Voices are clear and superb. My friend had done his magic. Changed most of the insides to top of the line things. I don't know what they are. So I'm happy.
Explanation is simple my friend.Solid state is better for critical listening,but that overloads the brain and after short period of time your brain gets tired of it and you don't like it that much.The sound tubes give you suppose to create softer,richer and not fatiguing sound which relaxes your brain and the brain can feel and enjoy the harmony of the music more when it is relaxed.
I'd never wanted to try a tube amp until I kept seeing positive reviews of the same amplifier in the Hi Fi press. I bought it without audition and I have to say I was blown away by the sound in comparison to solid state, even with just 22WPC it managed to drive Kef LS 50's to decent levels in my small room.
@@ThomasAndStereo Thomas, I love your informative videos. I am brand new to tube amplifiers. I am considering buying one. My goal is to swap it off with my Parasound Halo a50+ (suround sound) solid state amplifier, as my mood dictates. I need a tube amp that will drive my Totem Accoustic Tribe Speakers. The critical specs of my speakers are: Recommended Power 50-200 watts. Sensitivity: 89 dB. Impedance: 4 Ohms What are your thoughts? I don't want a push-pull. It needs to be under $750. (US) One person who follows you loves the Reisong A-20. I don't understand how 6 watts per channel can do a good job driving my speakers. I'm sure that am missing something. Amazon has many different models of Reidsong Boyuurange tube amps. I will continue to watch your videos and others on RU-vid as well as read up on then online & the owner reviews on Amazon. I appreciate whatever info you can provide me. Kind Regards, David
@@ThomasAndStereo Hi Thomas, Thanks for getting back to me so quickly. I appreciate 🙏 it. I did check out your video & another one on the Willsenton R300. I loved what I saw. You can't beat the performance value vs. Its's cost. I've decided to purchase it in the near future. Tube rolling for this amp will be down the line! One step at a time. Thanks Again, David Stein
@@ThomasAndStereoHi Thomas, I am leaning towards purchasing the PrimaLuna Prolouge Two. Based on the reviews I gave read and watched this unit 'checks all the boxes' in terms of performance & after-sale support from Kevin Deal at Upscale Audio in California. It's said to sound great right out of the box with unmatched performance at It's price point. I believe it comes with a 4-year warranty. That's a big plus for me over the units coming out of China. This unit seems to be a 'no-brainer' of a purchase.
Interesting review Thomas, thanks. You definitely hit on the biggest reason I prefer tube amplification which is the effect on sound stage size and shape- e.g. typically much larger in all directions and more spatially enveloping and interesting musically than solid state amplification. When I listen the vocals and instruments seem to be coming from a defined position with gradually diminishing edges. The positioning is easily noticed but the tapering off of the boundary is very smooth which makes the image much larger. Another huge reason (for me) is the ability to tune using different tubes. I have found that we can tune virtually any sonic parameter using different brands of (usually NOS) tubes, including smoothness, sound stage, tonal balance and transparency. I usually limit tube changes to the smaller signal tubes and not power tubes. This is where you find the tube "smoothness", through quality NOS tubes. I have also found that tube "effects" are maximized using a tube integrated amplifier or tube preamp / power amp. With even the best tube preamp / solid state power amp I have heard, the soundstage seems collapsed vs. a full tube amplification system. Unfortunately there are limits as you have noticed, and even the most powerful tube power amps cannot compete with the power, room size capability and grip of better solid state amps. Using tube monoblocks doesn't get their without some compromises either. For me the combination of a solid tube integrated amp using KT120 tubes (100 WPC) and a semi nearfield setup (e.g. 9 feet from speakers) with moderate efficiency speakers (86db) gives me the best of all worlds. Try a Rogue Audio RP5 preamplifier and Stereo 100 Power Amplifier if you ever have the chance. Sounds better than most everything out there regardless of price.... Peace and all the best. -Tony
Thanks for the long comment Anthony. I always wanted to try Rogue Audio and will one day. For tube rolling, fortunately I have a friend who has a lot so I usually lend him my gear and he return it to me with what he think is the best tube for it, I will speak a bit more about it with my Schiit Freya review.
I have the best of both worlds with my Musical Fidelity Nu-Vista m3 Integrated , tube pre solid state amp along with a Musical Fidelity TriVista 21 Dac with tubes and the holographic sound you are talking about is spot on , all instruments are separated in air and timing and if you close your eyes it’s scary real .
Musical Fidelity, I have the Trivista SACD and it's amazing with tubes. Sadly it died on me but I have to say I am very impressed with the sound quality from this company.
Thomas & Stereo Musical Fidelity’s Sacd players where great sounding , when they worked , unfortunately they just weren’t a product that was put together well enough to last , however there other limited production gear I.e. the Nu-Vista and Tri-Vista integrated amps and dacs are outstanding and very reliable.
@ I'd say a tube power section on a guitar amp is useless unless you can clip it without your ears bleeding. Low wattage guitar all tube guitar amps are better for doing total amp distortion. If you're doing clean headroom, you're better off with a high power solid state power section.
Thomas, you are my favourite RU-vid HiFi blogger. You talk about what really matters, the music. The equipment that moves in and out of one's system is just a means to an end (if there ever is one). The way you explain it in terms that people can grasp and appreciate is how it should be. Don't change.
Yes I totally agree with you Thomas. My goal until I bought the Yamaha As2100 circlotron with mossfet amp was a McIntosh tube pre and solid state amplifier which was a good compromise; Half as much holographic and twice as much base.
My 10 cents thoughts on tube versus solid state. Tube sound has more depth in sound, like if you can tell where instruments and vocals are placed on stage. Solid state has more stereo wide spreading, but not that good depth as with tubes.
I would think holographic as being sound stage. I bet a KEF rs300 with the correct tube amp would be magic. Also... I am dying to hear a pair of Magnepan speakers in person. I am holding off on buying my next speakers until I can sample them. 1. Martin login motion 60s 2. KEF Rs300 ( I'm not sure the larger models are better) 3. Maggie's (1.7 maybe) Are speakers I'm really considering. I would also experiment with tubes. I thought the Yakin would be legit.....I really appreciate all of your reviews. You are an excellent explainer. Thoughtful with purpose and leave people with a much better understanding.
Mr. Flim Flam Definitely try to seek out a demo of some Maggies. The KEF and ML’s are two very different speakers, and the Magnepans even more so. Tough decision! (I’d take the Maggie’s, but that’s just my opinion 😉)
Thanks, sorry for the late reply. Maggie, I only heard the 0.7 and another older model one. It's really all about sound stage with Maggie. KEF is about detail. Yaqin might not be powerful enought to bring out the full potential of Maggies. Apparently they take a lot of power.
I believe that soild state amps sound as good as tube amps,but with out all that wasted heat. FET transistors act just like their tube counter parts. Also they can deliver gobs of power too. Low maintenance is plus.
I've always liked tubes in the front end, meaning pre-amplification. I prefer solid-state for the power amplifier. Tubes require (SET's of course are the exception) an impedance matching transformer to drive the lower impedance speakers in a power amplifier. The challenge for manufactures is to minimize the hysteresis loss in a output transformer. The whole of a coil of wire wrapped around a metal core is the basis for an inductor, and inductors oppose rapid change. That's where the earlier big names in the audio business were challenged to produce clean treble tones past 15KHz. As products evolved, bandwidth improved, but in my earlier (better ears) days, a tube amp suffered in dealing with quick transients. Transistor amplifiers were able to use push-pull technology without the need for an output transformer, unlike tubes. Now these are generalizations, subject to the craftsmanship of the engineers and manufacturing. All things not being equal, no matter the money spent, an expensive product isn't a guarantee for better sound. I've been involved with the repair aspects of pro-audio and higher end equipment. I can usually look over a schematic, then inside the product and predict with reasonable accuracy, whether that piece of equipment is going to sound good, or not. I've heard differences in tube from solid-state for decades. For example, I owned and used various open reel tape equipment, and for my ears, the Ampex & Roberts tube tape decks sounded so much better than any solid state products. That included their later incarnations, as well as Studer-Revox & Crown. Later solid-state improvements closed the gap, but the holographic sound you described was evident all the way backs to the '60's. I would very much like to get the opportunity to listen to the latest B&K amplifiers that are offered through PS Audio. He combines a tube front end with a solid state output. They cost is too much for me, now that I'm retired. I've also been tempted to buy a kit from Pass Labs, for the sake of finding out if there's real magic in those designs.
wow, thanks for taking the time to share. Man I wish you live close by so I can get go bother you with some repair :) Although I personally use tube preamp now and SS back end, I do one like to try a full tube setup with a efficient speaker. My friends have them and I have to say a full setup does have it's charm. I did get a chance to listen to the B&K at someone's home. Sounded good from the short listening session.
We can design a complete amplifier in solid state performing the same if required but for the same money we can have a much better amplifier SS and do not need an output transformer. Tubes amplifiers are just for those nostalgic guitar players , nothing to do with the excellence of sound reproduction, and the quality of sound they claim to have with tubes, just pure and simple personal choice that turns into a cult to give more business to other countries still producing tubes in their old machinery. " It has nothing to do with excellence of sound reproduction "
I have a The Fisher 80T Hi Fi mono preamp and AM/FM tuner manufactured in 1958. In addition to independent bass and treble controls, it also has a 4 level loudness control. It also has an RIAA phono input. I listen to mono jazz and blues records with it and the quality is impressive. No noise in the background, and you have all the bass and treble you want. You can have a more rounded bass or harder. You can have very loud treble or just the timbre of instruments and voices. And the sound is definitely warmer. It also sounds great on FM and specially AM, which you can choose between wide band tuning that provides audio quality quite as good as FM or "sharp" with narrow band and the sound is pretty much what we have experienced when listening to AM. I also have a The Fisher 55A tube hi fi mono power amplifier, but the 80T preamp works so well with stereo my solid state equipment, I don't know if I'll have a use for it. For stereo records, I use a Cambridge Audio pre-amp that I enjoy very much. I also have a 1962 Heathkit tube stereo integraded amp. It has both ceramic and magnetic cartridge preamp inputs. It is being restored and I asked the technician to install a preamp lineout so I can try it with my stereo records. Let's see what'll come out of it. But one thing I noticed from the start: my mono jazz and blues records sound so much better with this tube preamp. Not so much for stereo records, since some instruments almost disappear when blended together in a single channel.
If you want to achieve this cheaply I own and am amazed how good a Dared 2A3C only 9 watts max but has the Holographic quality and lots of other benefits of single ended,I like to switch between this and Devialet Expert D200.
I bought one unit with bookshelves while I was in Iraq, power there is unkind to solid state and tubes can handle the fluctuation in power coming from a large scale generator. This little unit is always fun to pull out and it drives good size towers up to Polk Monitor 50's pretty easily. Surprisingly I like it a lot for pretty much any type of music. Its been great for mobile and localized listening as well as putting out in the garage. Very versatile when considering the size and the capability of the unit. It also would make a great office setup. To me listening to tubes has always been about recreational listening and waiting to see what it will do to the next track.
Harmonics is the difference. Missing in solid state amplifiers. You don't need a tube preamp. It's the iron where you get tube sound. A push pull amp is better than single end amps. A good output transformer is a must. You can use a solid state pre amp with a tube amplifier and still get the harmonics. It's the output transformer and a good output tubes. Use El 84's for good sound. El 34's are for more output.
Hi Thomas, I am in Australia and I enjoy your videos very much. I have tried lots of different SS receivers and like them very much. I meet a guy online here in Australia who built tube amps for many years and then he had an idea for a new style amp that does not use a circuit board and he said it was far superior to tube amps. I decided to buy one of his new amps and to my surprise the amp is every bit as good as he said it was and more. The clarity is outstanding and very neutral and rated at 30 watts but seems more like 60-70 watts, sorry I do not know the specs of the amp but I go more on the sound rather than what is written on paper. I am impressed with what I am hearing, on some recordings you can hear the artist breathing into the mic before the music begins. This guy only builds amps to order, he does not have a shop or website and he is an older gentleman, I am very glad to be a proud owner of his amp and I am looking into getting him to build another amp in the near future. I currently own around 20 SS receivers and I do not listen to any of them anymore because his amp is far superior and I own flagship model from Akai & Luxman and now I will sell them along with other rare models. I have this new amp playing through IMF-RSPM speakers and the sound is out of this world, no more buying gear for me as I am very very very happy with this setup. Keep posting more videos as I enjoy them, kind regards from Australia.
Thanks for commenting. Love it when people share their experience. The tube preamp showed in thumbnail was also built by someone like yours. It's incredible when you meet a genius who knows how to built it. If you look at the $60k stereo video, you will see his whole system that was built by a mad scientist in his garage:)
I will look at the video you suggested, by the way the amp I brought from him earlier this year was only $700 [US $480] and now he has designed a new amp rated at 55 watts. This guy is a genius and builds his amps in his kitchen as he lives in a very small house with his wife. I have posted below a small write up that I found on the internet about one of the amps called "Quasimodo" in this write is says he uses mosfets in the output stage but in his new design he has moved away from this --:
from the internet --: The Quasimodo amplifier is the result of some 15 years of development to make a stereo amplifier that sounds as musically enjoyable as possible. With no circuit boards whatsoever, all the components are hard- wired on tag strips, which really does help the sonics! The 40 watt model, for instance, is rated at 40 watts per channel into 8 ohms and around 70 into 4. There are also 25 watt and 80 watt models. They have been" voiced" to closely emulate that of a good valve amp. This has been done by ensuring that any distortion artefacts are primarily even - order, with 2nd order dominating, followed by a very tiny amount of 3rd, after which 4th order is higher in level than the 3rd- and so on in gradually reducing order. According to the SPICE program, the distortion at normal levels is about 0.063% with the "nice" sounding 2nd order artefact dominating- just like a good valve amp! A transistor amp that has been designed with a perfectly symmetrical circuit configuration will ALWAYS generate primarily odd order distortion artefacts and will sound, well, "transistor- ey" The Quasimodo deliberately uses a somewhat asymmetrical transistor / mosfet output stage to ensure that any small distortion artefacts are going to be the harmonious even order types. Subjectively, an amp that has a distortion figure of say, 0.5% 2nd order dominant , will always sound far more "musical" than one rated at 0.03% 5th order dominant! 5th order distortion is subjectively quite nasty sounding, so it is good practice, I have found, to ensure that even order dominates, thus "masking out" the nasties! The Quasimodo amp is inherently safe, and even in the highly unlikely event of an output stage failure, no harm can be done to your precious speakers! This amp sounds so good, I have now stopped building valve amps, of which I have four now just gathering dust! After hearing the Quasimodo, I think no other amp will quite sound as "right" - at least that's what I have found!
The old tube amps were warm and smooth sounding because they were often in record consoles which had limited range speakers. The old tube amps were often designed to roll unneeded frequencies usually high pass at 40 Hz and low pass at 10 kHz. A tube amp can have a clear broad frequency response as long as they're designed that way.
I do like the sound of tubes.ive had a couple of tube amps over the years.back when I was a teenager.i don't remember the brand of amp it was.i do recall it had 6l6gc power tubes,and I loved it.the most recent one.it had el84 power tubes.driven by a single dual triode 12ax7
For even more holographic soundstage I find a Directly Heated Triode [DHT] preamp is the way to go.I have been using a Supratek Cabernet 300B preamp for about 12 years and have compared it to a lot of other preamps many of which cost a lot more and none of them produce such a big open 3D soundstage.Coincident also make a very good DHT preamp which is made in Canada.The Supratek is Australian and made to order.
Everyone has their preferences. Mine is conrad johnson CJ-11a, Goertz speaker cable and magnepan Q1.6. Pre is Sonic Frontiers SFL-2. There's magic in this equipment.
My opinion is just simple. I prefer Tubes in my Preamp, where they can last probably 10 times longer than in a Poweramp. The more Power a tube has to provide, the shorter is it`s overall life. And for Power Amps, I feel good with Solid-state Gear. This way I can gain the most advantages for me. I cannot live easy with the idea that I have to change my tubes once a year - and due to I am retired, my Audio system runs 24/7! (I also use my tube preamp to watch movies, not only for the music). Maybe I will try a tube power amp someday in the future, but there are a lot of other things before that on my list... That said, it is very inspiring to listen to Thomas` opinion about that case! I love it!
@@ThomasAndStereo And, by the way, since our Pockets are not endlessly deep, and powerful Tube Amps cost a little bit - I think, an audiophile can also save money by doing so. Money that can be invested in better speakers, a better Turntable, or a better DAC... Or, just in better Sources, for example! That said, I don`t regret - for example - my upgrade from amazon music unlimited, to unlimited HD, which costs me 5 € more per month! I am a fan of Vinyl, and being a Vinyl guy, I love it to listen to music on Amazone music! And ever since I find an amazing album on amazon music, I have the chance to buy it in my most loved Format! YES! I am crazy and pay for my my music.... ;-)
Thomas ... your video makes it so much easier for the average person to relate to. I’m starting to try out tubes amps and some light tube rolling. Today, cheap China tube amps, tomorrow ... the better stuff. Gotta agree with you on the bass for tube amps. For want of a better term, I feel the tube amp’s bass is slightly more flubby or wooly compared with a SS amp.
Yes, there is way more control in the bass with a SS amp. Tube rolling is a whole topic in itself. I am lucky to have friends with lots of tube so I get to experience first hand.
Tim di Paravicini was asked the tube vs solid state question in an interview that I remember reading a while back. His answer? If you are clear about the sound you want and you know what you are doing, then you can engineer a solution using either valves or transistors!
This sounds like a tube guitar amp discussion! I went down that road and have a great collection of tubes both power and input stage and spent thousands on guitar amp rigs "seeking the perfect tone." I still have a classic tube pre that I just cant seem to part with for my guitar but find I use a Digital Device for my guitar most of the time for amp tones. I am certain if you want to go nuts with your dedicated stereo room and system have at it. Personally I think it gets a bit too crazy and expensive. I would look for holographic speakers first like Omni Directional designed speakers vs front firing drivers. Then move into the insanity of electronics such as experimenting with a variety of tube pres. As per the power side not sold on the sound and expense of tube power for output. This was something I learned going through my seeking " the perfect tone" period as a guitar player and feel it can tie with home stereo as well.
As a guitar player a tube guitar amp sounds alive, dynamic and organic. That's why most guitar players prefer tube amps. I hear the same thing in even cheap tube stereo equipment.
High frequency roll-off adds the illusion that something is further away. Something to think about when you hear depth differences between equipment. If you prefer the roll-off of course it is your preference that matters in your system.
@@ThomasAndStereo Agreed. I have a tube amplifier that measures indistinguishable from a good solid state in amplitude and distortion. High frequency roll-off can be added to equipment solid state or tube and it can be intentional in some cases to match the preferences of the listener.
Great discussion, Thomas. I think most audiophiles come to that crossroads and start to gravitate towards tubes for the reasons you pointed out. The way you explained the holographic sound describes a sound characterist I've always liked, but not I've not had someone describe it in those terms the way you did. I found myself going back to solid state, both amp and preamp, when I went back to listening good music for entertainment and relaxation purposes rather than critical details. In this, the warmness and weight of sound was more appealing to me. It seems that the only way to be satisfied is to have gear in both tubes and solid state and a collection of speakers to match. Thanks for your good reviews.
I am blessed with having audiophile friends and that is how my friend with the most experienced described to me when I first started, with that knowledge in hand, I was able to grasp it faster than if I had no one explained to me. I hope by me sharing, it will help someone out too. I like both setup. Right now, today, I actually have it setup as all solid state. Maybe next week, I will go back to tubes :)
Thomas, I have not had an opportunity to listen to the Focal Sopra 2. They look excellent and the technology is intriguing, but they cost several times the Aria 948. What would you estimate the % sound improvement of the Sopra 2 over the 948?. I'm thinking about investing in the Sopra, but don't want to do it unless a pretty bid improvement in sound quality, not just looks of cabinets. Thanks.
Hi, I own a pair of sopra 2’s and discuses the metal tweeter and the pros and cons of the performance in a recent video If you fancy checking it out on my channel
I only heard the Sopra for maybe 30 min at someone's home with a full mcintosh setup, I loved it and it impressed me a lot. Having said that, it's all based on memory. My friend do have the Focal Kanta that I can listen to anytime and for me, it is a significant upgrade from the 926. Not sure against the 948. We did hear a big difference (when going into critical listening) between the 1028 and 836 and the beryllium tweeter is definitely better. Sadly, I don't know the sopra enough to be able make a confident statement that it is x% better than the 948.
Now I hv been with tubes for almost 10 years. I have collected and compare more than 600 pcs of ecc81-ecc83 varieties of signal tubes, and also 6DJ8, 6CG7, 7199, 5870, Russian 6H2N-ev etc. You get my point. Output and rrctifier tubes too, I hv aplenty, vintage and new runs. TBH, I "feel" that there are only very few handful of tubes that stand out easily noticeably from the rest. These include, imho, tfk ecc83 (both the ribbed and the smooth plates), new Russian Gold Lion ECC83 (gold pins), vintage Russian 6HN2-ev (substituting ecc83 with 6.3 v heaters to pins 4 and 5), and Sovtek ecc83lps and its varieties such as the EH ecc83. One mention deserves some attention would be the vintage Raytheon ECC8 of USA make. All others, really I can hardly tell the difference, withoutl intensive listening. My point is, tube rolling.is subjective and heavily dependent on the amps themselves, and the music being played. So, YMMV!
Look matter for me and if I would go into tubes, it would most deffinitly not be a set with visible tubes. They have a very Monster of Frankenstein feeling to me and imo they look best as decor on a halloween party...
I'm hearing differences now of a few milimiters, crazy, but very cool to do as well. I saw an awesome lecture on proper placement and in what order to do it, the oldskool non technical way (without isolation or diffusion! ). I'm very used in hearing tiny spatial difference, and this way rocks! Let me find it for you...w8
I agree with your comment about the higher noise floor in tubes. While i like the harmonic density of good tube equipment, on extended listening, the noise floor starts to bother me. I find I need multiple systems and I go back and forth between tube and solid state.
Yup but I do have to add It depends on the tube preamp. I don't use tube amps anymore. I noticed the higher end ones are silent. The Audio research LS28 is dead silent for example. Sometimes it can be the tubes. Change to quiet ones and the floor noise almost goes away.
Guitar players want the tube sound on stage performances, because it 'excites' when the tubes are "driven". So if you don't turn your system up fairly LOUD you are missing out on what tubes have to offer. Solid state totally delivers at medium to low volumes, given you have quality speakers to begin with.
Tube Preamp + Solid State Power Amp = Hi-Fi Yumminess Edit: To be fair, a great set of speakers will also help. I could use a DVD player as a CD player going into a run-of-the-mill shelf system powering my Infinity 5000 speakers and it will sound fantastic. Also, if your tube preamp is using 12AX7 tubes and it's too bright, give JJ ECC83 tubes a try. They're commonly used to tame bright sounding guitar amps.
I just got a Vincent SV-700 hybrid integrated amp. It uses tubes in the preamp section. I will be posting a review in a few days. I have also picked up hi quality nos tubes which I will be switching out in a few days. Part of the tube effect I describe as "sparkly" more meat on the bone. Amps that use feed back in the output destroy the "tubeiness" for the most part.
I agree, it's all in the listening & i've also experienced how all tube pre-amps from reasonably affordable to very costly (i'm strictly trying to keep things relative to disposable incomes) ...can vary as much as transistor preamps do. Tubes do preamplifier duties best of all, i.m.o. & for technical reasons. Tubes are technically better suited than transistors are for low & line-level voltage-amplification alone, as in a preamplifier's role. But tubes are technically not ideally suited as output drivers in power-amps where transistors are near-ideal in comparison, a power-amp's output tubes needs converting from voltage-drive to current-drive by output transformers*** for driving speakers & have very low damping factor which can give certain speakers (esp' panel types) a loose &/or saggy or just a rolled-off /lack-of bass in my experience) I have a tube pre & solid-state class A power amp, it wasn't planned because of their internal technology but just ended-up that way after years of progressive upgrading, demo's & trying various 'used' equipment, progressively choosing & buying or keeping the best sounding combinations, irregardless of tube or s/state technology. I've come to firmly believe the best combination (at very least on technical grounds) for pre & power-amps would come from a design that use an all-tube preamplifier & a power-amp that uses tubes for all low-level voltage gain (& transformer phase-converter instead of a tubed one if it's designer went push-pull) & tubed drivers for a transistors output stage to drive the speakers directly. Of course it depends on implementation but if near-perfectly implemented i reckon it would be near-unbearable. ***Output transformer-less tube power-amps exist & i've heard them sound good, but they seem to be a compromise in design, to keep their output impedance down to single figures, if any do? anyway, i never liked the ones i tried. There is a new design of tube amp where the music signal is modulates a very high frequency carrier-wave & side-steps the need to keep tube impedance down with power-sagging, bass limiting output transformers, i've not heard one but the design seems very promising. Sorry to have waffled on & on but Lockdown is driving me 🤪C R A Z Y 🤪
The reason why people are not getting the true tube sound and cannot differentiate it with solid state is because they are using current production tubes. Use only NOS tubes and keep rolling the tubes till you get the right match
That’s nonsense. There are some excellent newly manufactured tubes and NOS tubes. It really depends on the specs, manufacturer etc. watch the video from blueglow electronics where he explains all this
for a low power amp tubes of course.i love the sound of el84's.drive them with a 12ax7.makes some sweet sound just to add.my first tube amp was an old heathkit diy.i only remember what the power tubes were.i dont remember what others it had.the power tubes in it were 6l6gc.i loved that thing to great sound.especially after some upgrades.
@@ThomasAndStereo please recommend some decent tube preamp that won't need me to remortgage my house (ie. 1k or under). my setup is outlaw 5000 amp and emit 30 dynaudio floor speakers, thanks,
First of all, I really enjoy your videos. Very helpful and informative. I also like your calm demeanor. This video was very helpful to me because I haven't specifically heard the benefits of tubes yet. At what price point would you recommended for a tube pre-amp to definitely hear an improvement? I was thinking on spending $1500 on one but would consider spending more to definitely hear a significant difference.
Those who prefer tube amps is OK as a personal choice, no problem, but saying that tubes are better than solid state is another thing. In my professional experience I had to adapt from several different kinds of tubes from many different makes and from different countries, so I can say a lot about tubes, the same happened with solid state. Yes, we can make marvellous amplifiers with tubes, I made some very good ones. There is no question about it I pass through it, design built test and compare performance. Ithrough the technologies of Radio receivers and transmitters, Radar several types, Electronics measurements and related instruments, Television American and European difference, fora LOT MORE MONEY, after that you can say whatever you want, is your choice, but it will not change the results of the tests and comparisions. In audio caption, recording, and reproduction there are much more than amplifiers (amplifiers are the least important unit in a sound insttalation) like Microphones, Loudspeakers, location of those and also most important is the Room acoustics. BUT ABOVE ALL IS THE KIND OF SOUND AND PERSONAL PREFERENCES. Whoever prefer a modern tube amplifier, is alright with me, but please do not tell about tubes what they are not, they had their time.
For those who have the challenge of driving lower ohms speakers, but prefer the 'sweet' treble and midrange sound of a tube amplifier, I recommend the "Vincent" brand of hybrid amplifiers. For more information, 'Google' it.
Thomas I have noticed a huge improvement with replacement of the 12au7s phase inverters in my Prima Luna power amp. They do make a difference. Matched Gold Lions are excellent. I can now "walk around" the vocalists. btw Tong Sol gold 12ax7s.Gold Lion KT88s
relatively well explained, but lacking knowledge of the basics of electronics. As a 40-year-old amplifier manufacturer, I can only say the following: the tube amplifiers are not HiFi because they colored the sound. Tube amplifiers are slow and have no dynamics. In recent years, the sophisticated High End has been just doing nostalgia for the past times. Tube amplifiers are good only for live playing as guitar amplifiers (for bass not). Wherever I was in the presentation of tube amplifiers, I always listened to the same songs (exclusively jazz). When I asked to play something of high-quality rock like Led Zeppelin, they mostly objected to the auditorium's not exactly about that type of music. But the truth is, the tube amplifiers show that they are a common disaster. The next is a bad frequency range for the audio transformer, because in order to get linearity at higher frequencies I had to use a very thin plate (0.1mm) in the core transformer because the problem through the transformer is to push 13Khz or more (curve hysteresis). So then something that is not capable of reproducing the whole audible range becomes HiFi. These are the facts. Hifi sound is pure sound, no color, no heat, and everything that the tube amplifiers have when they are working. The dynamics of the tube amplifier / transistor amplifier comparison is compared to the image rate of plasma TV and LCD TV. Tube amplifiers are just nostalgia and nothing more
We have the same opinion Thomas, tubes in pre-amp and solid state as the output is the best choice possible. I had an opportunity to listen a VTL IT85 and Raidho D1.2, fabulous combination, but that is not the one that blew me off. The same guy, made a preamp by himself,using old Ampex tubes and as his output he have somekind of old Yamaha Solid State power amp, speakers Braun LS70...brother that thing was like a dream. It might be the damn room, or his TT, bit I still think it is the combo of that pre and out with tubes and solid state. By the way, that thing is cheap, 10 times cheaper than my system, trust me. I have the same Pathos you shower in the video Pathos Logos, combining Raidho C1 Ayra as my speakers, Micro Seiki BL51 as TT, Ayon CD1 as my CD, cables are all Audioquest but top of the line, Rocket, Columbia. But this thing that I have encountered with his system blew me away. The music he played was Maya Nakano - Scabious.
Nice, yeah I would love to hear diy stuff like that. Eventually I will make a video on a locally built tube preamp that is amazing. Thanks for commenting and I am a big fan of Raidho.
I like that you tried those very low power tube configurations. 2 watts yeah. I recall now I'm 65 but as a teenager my dad found a 3 section tube with about a watt and a half to drive his EV triaxial speakers and it filled our living room. He had a sound service shop with thousands of tubes new and used. Since he actually built equipment it was an easier task to evaluate things. People today without sufficient education in electronics cant really know what they are doing. I saw it first hand. I enjoyed your journey of listening and learning.
Put a ten watt tube amp in the bedroom and it’s the most enjoyable setup I’ve had .. period. I have two other solid state systems set up in the house but my vintage 10 watt integrated amp is just delicious.
I don't want to walk around the singer. I want the singer to walk around me. A surround system with Dolby atmos does it for me for wayyyyy cheaper. I don't want music to sound like the original recording. I want it sugared up with processing so it sounds perfect in my ears (because life is short). All the musicians need to walk around me tryna please me, the emperor!
Holophonic... is a better term. But, is trade marked by Hugo Zuccarelli. His system was used for portions of Pink Floyd's "The Final Cut" and Roger Waters' "The Pros and Cons of Hitch-hiking". The effect is startling (read: DISTURBING) with headphones.
Yes, I follow his video and that is why his BHK has tubes in the input stage of their power amp. He is not a big fan of tubes but eventually had to go that route because it sounded better for the power amp they were designing.
True, having said that, I do believe he believes it. If he did not, he would have designed it differently then. Meaning if he think it's good in the output stage, he would have design amps to have tube in the output stage. I think its all a compromised and there is a place for it in the output stage, maybe like in this VT200 amp, its very holographic.
Everything's a compromise 😮 From what I remember Paul said tubes are great voltage amps and transistors are great current amps. In truth I don't really understand properly but channels like yours and Paul's are helping me get there. 😄
Paul McGowan’s little chats are entirely constructed around promoting his products. He’s very “sales-y”. His technical talks answering letters are purely sales pitches. Tubes are great for business; they need regular replacement and they give hobbyists something to tinker with at substantial cost/profit. There is so much confirmation bias in the audio world that sellers of tube gear can make the wildest fluffy claims about sound with virtually no challenge. Even Tomas couldn’t hear a difference until he was told what difference to listen for. This seems like fertile ground for confirmation bias in action!
1379 McGowan said himself that his videos are for promoting PS Audio products. At least that's why he started making them. But since you have a money back guarantee I see nothing wrong with that.
I don't know much about design but Paul Mcgowan (check out his channel) do suggest to use tubes in the input stage but not output stage. I don't know what it means technically but he has an excellent youtube channel, go check it out.
@@ThomasAndStereo yes, i've seen that video from ps audio. what he meant is tube output stage on the power amp (most amps have more than 1 stage). to make it work for speakers, tube amp needs output transformers which introduce harmonic distortion at extreme frequencies and some people may hear it as fatten the bass and made treble sweeter. so i think it's only a myth that tube introduce distortion when in fact it's the transformer who did this. for my diy dac i'll only use tube buffer to increase the current without any voltage amplification (no gain) which should be low distortion. tubes have high input impedance and very low parasitic capacitance which fits perfectly for this job. probably this holographic imaging is due to very low and linear parasitic capacitance. just my guess ....
Really, it's all about circuit design for tubes and solid state. Bad design= bad outcome. Douglas Self,in his book, said the goal is to play the recording with as little input ( noise) from the circuit as possible. All circuits add noise to a recording. The goal is to have the shortest cleanest path between the playback device and the speakers.
Holographic to me is a psychoacoustic property that is mostly in your speaker placement and a good master recording. Software can now perfectly mimic a tube as is seen in guitar amps like Kemper. It is clear that this is about enjoyment of the electromechanical aspect of producing your sounds. Those tube amps are something beautiful to behold and watch just like a turntable is.
Speaker placement is definitely important. Right now, I have a burmester solid state preamp that can create that holograhic image, it does lack 'air' compare to my modwright LS100 and audio research LS28 tube amp though.
@@SilverNova111 I've done some work on modeling imperfections in the last few years and this was 4 years ago. Today I would say we are modeling imperfections, but certainly digital today has the elasticity to model any old amp sound in a perfectly imperfect way!
Loved the video. I was wondering whether you could share your thoughts on a hi-fi system that uses a tube preamp with an integrated amp. Do you still get the same harmonics with such a system as a pure tube setup? Cheers.
What I discovered with Mc Intosh tubes is separation of musical instruments, where each instrument is of equal volume, basically what you experience in Live music.
I enjoy your videos. Just wanted to mention that I feel people don't pay enough attention to how their favorite albums were recorded, which in my view makes or breaks everything with regards to the soundstage, etc. Some record labels are more "audiophile" than others.
Great, I know tubes do wear out but it's not too expensive these days to replace them. Good luck and if the tubes are exposed, which some preamps love showing them off, they look so cool at night with the lights off.
I’m using a Balanced Audio Technology VK-33 tube preamp connected to Musical Fidelity M8-700 Solis state monoblocks. I’m very happy with the combination
I think I'm out of place here. You did a very good job of explaining it from what I could understand. What Im going to say is going to really be off the tracks. I liked what you said about WALKING AROUND the Music, that really got hold of me. Let me say this which may sound off key. During my younger days in the 1970's while listening to Music as I would light up a smoke (Grass) as I was high from it I could SEPERATE each and every instrument and pull the drummer to the front of the room while leaving the bass player in the back of the room. I could pick out each person singing and even SEPERATE the singers from one another. I started to find it very interesting doing that. The best band for me was Credence Clearwater Revival, WOW! I don't do the drugs anymore but I can still pick out certain instruments when listening to music. Sorry if this sounded bad in discribing anything. If tubes can really SEPERATE the intraments then WOW! From Buffalo, New York Thanks for reading this.
Nice, maybe the system you listen to was 'neutral'. I talked a bit how i feel about it in my latest video. ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-6Y7iW_iadw8.html
Thanks Thomas for pointing this out in the most simplistic way. I have thoughts about changing (or rather adding) a tube pre-amp but don't know what tube-centric quality to focus on. Do you have discussion about price point versus performance in tube/solid state amp upgrade for the budget conscious audiophiles?
Can't believe i missed this video , Thomas is on the money ! Thomas you just didn't nail this comparrsion you screwed the floor down ! 😆 Gezzz those Tubes , Dam that Pathos ! I love me Yammy SS it does have that tubbness character from the Mosphetes that I love but a Tube integrated at the same price yeah Holographics will be close to twice as good I agree , One day Thomas ! I will put a Tube Preamp on that Yammy , Yammy can be used as dedicated amp and With Mosphetes that sounds Fun !!! 😆 Thanks Thomas !
I now am listening to records with mofi studiophono, and studiodeck. I bought an used Fisher 400 that has been recapped. The sound is amazing. I have other solid state amps like, Rogue Audio, Harman Kardon, but doesnt have the sound that the Fisher creates.
