This was so much fun, Philip. Thank you so much for including me in these. I really appreciate your commitment to, and enthusiasm for, the poetry of the series.
Thank you, my friend . . . I mean, Nemesis! So, if we dream about loved ones, perhaps we have nightmares about nemeses. That would be cool since it would mean I can haunt and torture you long after I am recycled into stardust! Ha ha!
I love this poem, it may be my favourite Malazan poem. For a poem about death, I love how hopeful and content it is in tone. Very interesting discussion, as always!
It’s definitely one of my favorite Malazan poems too, Sanna. It’s no easy feat to convey a sense of beauty and peace in a poem about death and grief, but that is what Erikson has managed here.
Having now watched the whole way through, that was beautiful. Thank you for reading this, even in such a structured discussion, it spoke very loudly to me. I've been estranged from my children for many years, and dreams are beautiful to be in, and having to wake up, and face more time without them is so difficult that, as today, I'd rather stay awake and potter on youtube past 3am, than go to bed. 😭
I'm so glad the discussion was meaningful for you, Derri. Without any wish to pry about the circumstances, I do hope you will find healing around whatever brought about the estrangement. We have all sorts of families in life, including our community here on BookTube, but sometimes in these families we find ourselves at odds with each other too. My very best wishes to you.
Now this is an absolute fantastic video. Thank for both of you on your epigraphs/poems discussions. Actually I am working on an essay about the theme of the river in MBOTF, and plan to use this fisher-fishing as an example. It was only by this epigraph that I realized that Fisher, as a bard, is performing fishing in real life. He perfected the art of hearing a story, isolate it from the inevitable stream of life and give it the momentary spotlight before releasing in back. I'm also reading this poem as an invitation to all of us to experiment in some fishing.
I’m happy you enjoyed the video, Noam, and I think your essay on the theme of the river in MBotF sounds fascinating. Kharkanas is fertile territory for that topic too, though I don’t know if you want to take it there. My very best wishes for the project!
@@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy "You wouldn't see a subtle plan if it painted itself purple and danced naked on top of a harpsichord, singing "Subtle plans are here again!" " 🤣🤣🤣
I feel comforted by this poem and this discussion! I’m now wondering if Fisher and the fishing idea is a Biblical reference as well? This poem perfectly captures such an intimate yet universal experience that is very familiar to me. I loved the breaks that A.P. inserted, and Philip, maybe I’m a Medievalist at heart because I loved your reading. Every word in this poem is perfectly placed. Fitting how that last mono-syllabic line invokes a sense of rest and finality. Thank you both!
Yes, that last line quietly but emphatically delivers the sense of comfort, and those monosyllables convey exactly what you suggest, Johanna -- "rest and finality." I'm sure there's a medievalist dwelling inside you, Johanna -- you have too much poetic sensibility and awareness for there not to be one there. The biblical reference makes sense, as do many mythological associations between water and life/death. It seems to me that this poem taps into a lot of universal things.
@@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy Here's a biblical reference, Kaminsod is Jesus during the time he was absent from our world during his adolescence and early adulthood. 😳
@@Paul_van_Doleweerd Beyond the legends of him traveling to study Buddhism in the East or magic in Egypt like Moses did, there are some humorous stories , obviously non canonical, about a young JC creating birds out of mud and raising dead animals. Apparently rather precocious by some accounts.
I didn't watch this at first because I was worried about spoilers (I'm on my first read, about 30% through Toll The Hounds), but this week's The Week That Was convinced me to give it a shot and I could always hit stop if any spoilers came up. And yes, now that I'm seeing it on a computer instead of AndroidTV, I can see the "no spoiler" tag at the end, and feel like an idiot for waiting. What a beautiful sentiment, I love the thought that our dead still live on in our dreams. I've never given it conscious thought, but even now, over 20 years after my father died, I still occasionally see him in dreams, usually when I'm feeling lost and need advice. Thank you both for a wonderful analysis, a brief existential crisis, and a few good laughs on a cold Saturday morning.
I’m so glad the discussion of the poem struck a chord for you, Adam. That’s very moving about your father appearing in your dreams when you’re in need of advice. Toll the Hounds is the book Erikson wrote when he lost his father, and I’ve never encountered a more moving meditation on grief and love. I hope you will get a lot out of it.
Understanding poems for me is really difficult since English isn't my first language. I appreciate you taking the time to do this video, because when I'll be reading it, I'll be able to understand and appreciate it.
The Malazan poetry is really a highlight of the series for me. I adore those poems, and I don't know why, but it still surprises me how comforting (to borrow your expression) some of them can be. Thank you, for this enriching exploration of 'Song of Dreaming!
I'm so glad you enjoy these poem discussions. We don't get a massive audience for them, but it's gratifying to know that the people who do watch take some meaning from them, and that's what really matters. The poems really are a brilliant feature of the series.
This poem is particularly brilliant as dreams occur in most of the books. Dreams in the Malazan world are potent states and so are the dreams in this poem. What is surprising is that it seems to solely present a human pov. It makes me wonder who in Malazan is able to dream? Is it only human or humanoid individuals? Like do the Tiste Andii or the T'lan Imass dream? If only humans can dream, it would explain why K'rul needs Kruppe who is a gifted dreamer. Also the longer individuals live in Malazan the less they are able to lead fulfilled lives and seem to envy humans this ability which makes the last line even more poignant. It's always a pleasure to hear your ideas about the Malazan poems. I gain a lot of new insights from these discussions and hope you will do many more. Also, only fraction of the people watching comments. There are probably many more who find them meaningful than just the ones who tell you.
@@brush2canvas849 That’s so true about dreaming. There are whole realms or pocket Warrens that are dreams. In Hinduism, our universe is the dream of Vishnu, brought into reality by him. There are similar vibes in Malazan. You’re right as well, I think, about folks who watch but don’t leave comments, which is absolutely great too. Thanks so much for your comments, though!
I just found an interesting piece of dialogue near the end of chapter two of The Crippled God, which mirrors this poem. SPOILERS FOR THE CRIPPLED GOD “I have found the living in my dreams, and they are not well.“ Appropriately, the quote is from Cartographer, the walking corpse. It comes up in a conversation he had with Gruntle after the ambush on the carriage. Paying attention to these epigraphs can really pay of in the unlikeliest of places
Absolutely! The epigraphs really enrich the rest of the books. Thanks for pointing out that scene, Hartmut - I’ll be on the lookout for it when I reread The Crippled God. Cheers!
I have just recently lost my dad and this poem and your interpretation is a gift. What a beautiful poem and and a more beautiful inspirational message. "They are well". Such a solid powerful ending that soothes the grieving heart. Thank you so much for this video.
I’m so very sorry to hear about your loss, and my very best wishes to you, Avi, as you and your loved ones grieve. Erikson wrote this poem while mourning his father, so it’s coming from a similar place.
@@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy thank you for the kind words and I really appreciate your work and answering each and every comment. Its really hard work, so thank you 😊
@@avi4905 Thanks, Avi. It does take time to reply to everyone, but the engagement is important to me, and I appreciate everyone taking the time to share their thoughts and experiences. My best to you!
This might be my favourite Fisher poem 💖, i'd already marked it to read again. Thank you so very much to put in words (some of) my feelings when i read this!
This poem is so beautiful and aching and comforting at the same time. Lovely analysis, guys, it was very soulful and also very crisp and scholastic. These conversations are so fascinating! Thank you! :)
Thanks for the discussion! Erickson and your discussions have awakened a love for poetry I never knew I had. Would love to hear a discussion of “Of a River” sometime. Badalle’s words are always leaving me thinking.
Badalle is incredible, and that's a lovely idea. I'm also glad you enjoy these discussions about poems. To hear that they have helped you to appreciate poetry is music to my ears, so thank you so much!
Wonderful. Thank you for this. It really helps me to draw connections with the poem. After your discussion the poem resonated way deeper with me than before. There were definitely rolling some tears down my cheeks. :)
Thank you, Hans. It's a beautiful poem, and I'm so glad our discussion of it added something for you. I find it all the more moving knowing that Steven Erikson wrote it following the passing of his own father, and it same time there is something universal about it.
Thank you for sharing another wonderful discussion. I haven't finished the video yet, but all the talk about phrasing and breaking up poems into stanzas reminded me of a music group that, a few years ago, released 2 CDs of Erikson's poems set to music. I believe Erikson was involved too, but I don't know to what extent, and was curious if either you or AP were familiar with that project and if you had any thoughts on their arrangements. If you're not familiar, one album can be found here: kitsmusic.bandcamp.com/album/like-a-dancer-unstrung Looking forward to watching the rest of this, thanks again!
This was a great discussion, my favorite among the Steven Erikson poems so far. Thank you for exploring the meaning in these verses, it helped me see much more than I did at first glance. It brings to mind "Death, Be not Proud" by John Donne, but it's written on a much closer, personal level. I hope you'll both continue making such videos.
Thank you, Raoul! The comparison to Donne’s poem is apt - Donne is one of my favorite poets, so thank you for that. I’m glad the discussion and poem spoke to you.
@@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy I like the metaphor of fishing. My interpretation is that the dreamer is the fish swimming the river of Dreams. As one doesn't dream of lost loved ones every night, the dead are fishing for them.
It makes sense when explained but there’s no way in 100 years I’d have been able to derive this myself haha. I guess it’s a learned skill like anything else though. I really enjoyed some of Badalle’s poems that were written within the text itself. As they were written from the perspective of a child I could actually make some sense of them
This reminds me of an Annihilator song called 'sounds good to me' - for those who don't know it I really do recommend giving it a listen. Also, and I could be wrong, this has the most fishing references of any Fisher poem that comes to mind. Could this have been the one he's named after, or that he has named himself after? His original claim to fame as it were. Both the 'song' and 'dreaming' of the title refer more to things ethereal and made up than realistic, to me. So I'd sooner interpret this as a symbol of hope and comfort, rather than a true state of affairs. Anyway, it is beautiful and always a pleasure to see you gents dive deep into these. 😊
Thanks, Rob! I didn’t mention this in the video, but the poem is attributed to “Fisher” - not “Fisher kel Tath,” as we see elsewhere. I’m not sure if that means anything at all, but it could give the poem further universality in that we’re all fishers of one thing or another. It’s great to read your thoughts and to know these discussions are worthwhile!
I do not recall where I heard it but if you are getting angry while fishing, you aren't doing it right. Fishing does give a sense of tranquilityand hope you will catch something. Unless of course you are the fish. It is also an interesting contrast from the water imagery from the Shake's Prayer.
Well said, Eric! A fish would have an entirely different perspective on fishing, I suppose. Being a vegetarian, I don’t fish, but I get the idea that it’s a meditative experience. Good call in regard to the Shake’s Prayer.
