I love the way Steven Moffat talks and the reverence he has for Classic Doctor Who. The man has such a deep understanding of the character of Doctor Who, I love it.
I like Moffat and I think he deeply understands what Doctor Who is about. I'm so annoyed by people who complain about everything new.The show is changing and it will continue to change! That's the point of it!Regeneration and change. I liked Russel and I like Steven and it's a shame that many people feel like they have to choose one side. Every showrunner should be able to reinvent the show. And Steven brought so many amazing things to it. He created the Weeping Angels and the Silence and Captain Jack and River.
+Jane Smith Actually, no matter how many upvotes you get you're argument is wrong. "people" don't have a problem with change, "people" have a problem with a show that cannot hold on to it's own continuity, just for the sake of being edgy and new. There are fundamental things about the series that made it so popular that someone said, hey! Let's bring Dr. Who back to the little screen. Making the show appealing to Everyone is a mugs game. That's never going to happen, make it about a cute young actor you alienate the older fans. Make it about science and history, you alienate the action morons, concentrate on character development, you alienate the CGI junkies who just want neat space ships and monsters. Make the doctor a woman you alienate everyone who ever liked the show over the age of 25. Weeping Angels, awesome, Empty Child, scared the piss out of me and I was well into my 30's when that one came out. River, Jack The Silence (at first,) all great creations. However, he also created a doctor that shoot first and never asks questions, he's put an end to death in the Who-niverse, he's taken jokes from Douglas Adams and his own comedy bits and tried to make them into drama, and worse of all, he has taken the entire history of the show, why the doctor left home and why he was so excited to go home again, and told it to bend over in the prison shower. Moffat is not the devil, but his successes hardly make him the best thing that ever happened to Dr. Who. In short change is part of what this show is about, but it's never been about being the coolest kid on the block either. Edit: oh and one more really important point, there have been a lot more writer producers than Moffat and Davies, this show has a rich history of great stories, and lame stories, it's not just about what's happened in the past ten years.
Batman Laughed I never said that he was the best thing that ever happened to Doctor Who. And I understand your arguments. I didn't mean to offend you. I wasn't trying to say that everyone who doesn't like Moffat just has a problem with change. But there are people like that on the internet and they annoy me. You have an opinion and I respect that. I just want to enjoy the show. (I also know that there are more writers than Moffat and Davies, but fans very often fight about the two of them. Because there are many new fans on the internet.) Please excuse possible mistakes, English is not my first language.
Jane Smith Okay, going off topic for a second here: I have an honest question. What in your opinion is coming off as offended in my reply? I"m Asking because I've come to notice when my reply is through and more than 12 lines it's always referred to as angry, offended, upset blah blah blah. Or is it that the weird thing that makes some of my quotation marks look like text swearing? I was pretty sure I wasn't coming after you on personal level and after re reading it still don't see that. So just out of curiosity, I'm interested in why you think that my comment was one of an offended person. Oh and your English is excellent by the way, I have had encounters with people from the US online that sound like they studied English on Mars or something. You're doing just fine. Anyway, as to your reply. True, in all fairness you didn't say he was the "best thing" that happened to Dr. Who, but you can see why fans of the show, old and new, might have a problem with the direction he's taken the series in the past two years. I was simply trying to point out that there are times when Moffat seems to be coasting on his successes and really not trying very hard. And other times when he just flat out says screw the rich history of the show I'm not only going to make the doctor a new man with a different personality, he out and out reinvents the kind of hero the doctor is. In particular in the finale he was made into a petty, selfish, murderous psycho. For ever great scene like the speech at the end of Zygon Inversion, or funny scene like the thing with the topic cards in Under the Lake; there are things like the Cloister Ghosts, or the doctor making a huge issue over a Dalek saying mercy, when it was already established once, [in a story Moffat wrote himself,[ that the Daleks understand the word just fine. I'm not that uber old who fan that says you don't get a say unless you've been watching or 30+ years. But I will be the one to say, people who only look at Dr. Who in terms of Moffat and Davies runs are missing the point about why a lot of fans are really unhappy with the direction the show has gone. So, yes I better understand that you are specifically talking about the ones who are just ardent Moffat haters because he's not Davies, but when you write; "I'm so annoyed by people who complain about everything new.The show is changing and it will continue to change! That's the point of it!Regeneration and change," I have to disagree with examples of why that is an overly general statement that does not accurately describe who it is you are referring to. It comes off as saying anyone who doesn't like Moffat, not just the ones who are rabid Davies fans. Also, to be frank the show isn't "about" regeneration an change, it just includes those things as part of the doctors life cycle. The show is actually about a man who goes around saving people and doing the right thing. This idea that he's a "madman in a box," is an over simplification of a beloved franchise, and it's time for something more than hot companions, tear-jerking speeches, and sonic screwdrivers. The doctor is not a Marvel superhero, he's not an anti hero that shoots people to get what he wants, and he's not anyone's boyfriend or therapist. The sad truth is this though, Dr. Who is a British tv show, and in great Brittan it's viewing figures have been getting dangerously low. There is a real possibility that the show is in danger of being put on hiatus or cancelled. And a lot of the complaints across the pond in England is that the show has become a predictable soap opera-ish fantasy yarn. There is no longer science in this sci fic show, is becoming very inappropriate with regard to it's use of sexual innuendo. After all in England this show is still considered a kids show, and they are worried that too many parents don't want their kids watching a show that talks about the female companion making out with literary figures, as opposed to the stories where the doctor would meet said historical people and help them with a problem. I appreciate your opinion and respect it, even if I don't agree with it, and thank you for being classy about disagreeing and not a name calling childish bore. But, for future reference, when one expresses annoyance with people who have a differing opinion, it's better to be specific than general. Just my two cents.
Your comment didn't seem offended or angry. I was writing that, because I read my comment again (which I don't remember writing :D) and thought that it could be offending. Because it wasn't specific enough. My mistake. I also have some problems with Moffat. But there will be a time after him and maybe the show will go back to a concept that you like better. Of course the show isn't just about "regeneration and change". I said that, because a show, where the main character changes his face is pretty unique. And I do think change is important in a tv show that has such a long history. Also I started to watch Doctor Who in a time with a lot of change in my personal life and it helped me to deal with that. I just wanted to express what the show means to me. I hope I have explained my original comment now. I'll try to be more specific in the future. ;)
Jane Smith Oh, okay, I wonder if it's just the length in some cases, I have learned that a lot of people just don't like reading a lot in our text message society. You know it's funny, I've been talking to my best friends brother who is also a fan from the way back, and we were literally just talking about the idea that the best way to explain why the old fans are annoyed is to teach the New Who fans, not berate them. Not to mention that we were discussing at length that there have been a number of major changes to the show over the years. Pertwee's era was almost all earth bound and very James Bondish, and less sci fic, an there are plenty of great shows in that time. So yeah, there will be a new era, whether before or after a hiatus, and maybe then they will go back to the anthology type series. Honestly I think that's the thing about the show that I like least under Moffat and Davies. There's too much of this whole, make the entire season revolve around one idea. It worked well with the Bad Wolf thing, but since then, it's gotten worse and worse, until this year where they just didn't seem to have any kind of real plan about the hybrid and it came off as a slight of hand, bait and switch cheat. My friends brother and I were just saying that Dr. Who did the same for us, made two nerdy kids find something that they could really get into, and find a community with the old 80's doctor who conventions. So good that it was a source of outlet for you. I know where you're coming from on that. And thanks for keeping this discussion classy.
Bam! Right there in those first 45 seconds Steven Moffat lays down the secret formula that has let Doctor Who go on for so long. No offense to Russel Davies, but his early seasons always felt like more of a fanboy's recreation or reboot at most, as opposed to a new series of Doctor Who. Steven Moffat just completely owned it and acted like it was a continuation of the old. Of course, he isn't perfect and there is plenty in his writing to criticize, but I think the majority of critics overstate his faults. I have deep respect for the guy as a brilliant writer and fellow Whovian.
The Doctor, Jack Bauer, The Avengers, Johnny Mnemonic, Harry Potter, Star Trek: They're just a bunch of people who want to go to the pub, see some stuff, hang out with Marie Antoinette, and they somehow end up in the middle of everything. As you do.
Problem is, when Chris Chibnall came in, he changed too much, too soon and, had I not known Jodie Whittaker was the new Doctor, I would have thought I was watching the wrong show. And "Doctor Who" has always traded on it's past to some point, which Chibnall finally conceded to with a handmade Dalek in "Resolution". A cameo by a fez barely counts.
LOL, well, seems he had a simple answer to the whole Gallifrey thing. Just re write the entire history of the planet and ret con the shit out of the reason for Dr's leaving. Now it's his world and he can do whatever the hell he wants to, and screw 50 years of history.
+Batman Laughed He left because of a random vague prophecy that had no clear connection with him anyway. Yeah, Hartnell's Doctor was definitely terrified of those.
DarthRushy Nope! But given your willingness to say such a thing I know this won't end up being a discussion about the actual history of the show. As opposed to the reinterpretation of the history. Peace out.
+Batman Laughed I'm not looking for an argument, just trying to figure out why you randomly blew me off for pointing out a flaw in the plotting. Heck, you were just doing the same thing.
I liked Kill the Moon, and that Clara jumped into the time stream and became much more than just a travel companion. Did I like every episode in New Who? No, but some of the shows I like, I know others didn't like so much, AND VICE VERSA...so why do we expect that everyone has to like everything that someone does? I love - litterally LOVE - the Capaldi Era, and most (not all) of the episodes in Seasons 8-9-10. I also like Matt Smith and David Tennant, and Christoper Eccleston...why are we so focused on hating, comparing, bashing...I turn on the show, I enjoy it = Doctor Who is awesome...A lot of good people have put a lot of time and effort into the show, and I hope it stays that way. For me Capaldi and 12th Doctor are special because at that time in my life the philosophic and positive messages in the show were just what I needed to hear...I loved the stories and ESPECIALLY the acting of Capaldi...I liked Clara, although I didn't like that she smacked the Doctor a few times...but overall the show is just awesome, and while I'll always miss 12, I am curious and looking forward to 13...
Capaldi is a great actor who could bring across a great darker Doctor. But on the other end of the spectrum we have Moffat who feels the need to make too many unfunny childish jokes, silly plots like that one where the moon was an egg, plots which have many plot holes (Davros was an evil genius once, now he fell for that trick where the Doctor just gave him what he wanted and managed to kill a bunch of Daleks) and plots which are totally silly. Also he cannot write characters, females especially. Yet he wants to write the first female Doctor and is writing Missy. Then there's the Americanisation of it. But I don't want to be here all night. In conclusion, is this guy working for free or something cos why else would the BBC let him carry on? XD
Fuck your feelings HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA Hell no! RTD never had things like Heaven Sent, Listen, Dark Water, Extremis or The Doctor Falls. THESE are dark episodes
Moffat needs to get rid of the sonic sunglasses and the electric guitar and then reveal that missy is not the master and is a fake that gets killed by the real master who is like he was in tennants doctor who, then let Clara leave in a peaceful way to bring a new assistant that doesn't become part of the Doctor, jumps into his timeline or stare into the tardis like every assistant since it was brought back in 2005 has... That will make me happy!
Who said I don't like it? Have the sonic sunglasses and electric guitar been in it for five years? And do we need every assistant to be female and look into the tardis or something? And how is Missy a good thing?!?! And how is me wanting a good doctor who like the original or the David tennant and Cristopher Ecelston ones retarted? You sir need to shut up and think more!
+Abraham Mireles I like the fact that in the Christmas special the Doctor used both the sunglasses AND screwdriver. It really sort of means that whatever tool seems more necessary to the story will be the one used. The sunglasses would work great as a visual aid scanner of sorts, while the screwdriver is probably more for mechanical uses.
+Belmer Fdez-Cid My biggest thing wrong was watching 4 seasons of Moffat Who instead of giving up when I should have after his first. Congrats if you like it - just don't be too surprised if (when) it gets axed.
I feel like he doesnt realize that there is actually a point where you can change the show so much that people wont like it. It has hit that line a few times especially in series 8. The very baseline of dr who, the story, the idea which lies in every series has to be the same im sure we all agree and messing with it even in the slightest doesnt always come with a good result. Yes, new is good and im not trying to say im one of those people who hate something new but there comes a point where causes the story to result in marrying river song is just too much.
