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Stock Aitken Waterman | How to recycle the same drum pattern again and again

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When I started to look into the Roland TR-727 percussion patterns used by Stock, Aitken & Waterman in the late 80s, I found striking similarities between different songs.
Rick Astley, Jason Donovan, Donna Summer, Bananarama, and many others had very similar (sometimes just the same) percussion patterns coming from the 727.
Not surprisingly as they churned out hits and records at a record pace, so some corners had to be cut. And why change a winning formula anyways?
To avoid copyright strikes I've focused on just one of the songs in this video and this is a typical 727 percussion part from that era.
As with the A-ha video I recently published, this is not meant to be a carbon copy remake in terms of sound, it's just a quick demo to show some interesting arrangement decisions. Some tend to take these videos too seriously. ;-)
The Yamaha DX7 patch bank with the bass patches has been confirmed being the real one. It's been confirmed by the very creator.
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Опубликовано:

24 авг 2024

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Комментарии : 357

@Michael_Smith-Red_No.5 Год назад

This was fascinating. I also like that you basically Rick-Rolled us in slow motion.

@Mr_ToR Год назад

exactly hahaha

@MikeHarrisHazchem77 Год назад

🤣

@Whistler-007 Год назад

::Like::

@vocalpro Год назад

Hahahaha gold

@brucemillar Год назад

😂

@R0b3rtao Год назад

Amazing! These guys knew how to make perfect pop songs!

@leegreveson Год назад

I expect many of us are solo home studio producers as a hobby, but I bet it was great fun working in a team like that back in the day. When you're on a roll you just gotta keep them coming , love them or loathe them, the chart positions speak for themselves, it was quintessential pop music

@jizzmaster2000 Год назад

totaly

@bobjoe7508 Год назад

Really fun breakdown of this song. Not too surprised they reused this percussion arrangement in so many songs, it really just works in so many songs. I remember reading somewhere that Ian Curnow created those bass patches, but I could be wrong. But damn, they created some of the most iconic DX bass patches ever.

@EspenKraft Год назад

It is Ian Curnows bank. ;-)

@MyGman2012 Год назад

stock aitken waterman were creative geniuses. Making something sound easy to the ear and funky requires lots of creative talent and is a complex process! Bravo! It just looks easy to the untrained!

@haydenharris3059 Год назад

My suspicion was correct, lovely 😍 👌

@raywright8226 Год назад

There was an interesting drum loop that SAW became quite fixated on in '89 '90, which had it's roots in a PWL track recorded for Mandy Smith called "Victim of Pleasure" (produced by Daize Washbourn & Phil Harding). They commissioned Justin Strauss to create some remixes for it's USA release, and when the mixes finally came back, Justin's drum loop suddenly began appearing in tracks for Kylie (Hand On Your Heart, Never Too Late), Sonia (Listen To Your Heart, You'll Never Stop Me...) plus many more. I've always been curious how Justin Strauss created the loop, and did he mind SAW procuring it in their creation of further songs.

@cantforgetyou Год назад

I loved that drum loop. It came from 'acid house' club songs. But I don't know what song or producer started with this drumloop.

@TayWoode 11 месяцев назад

There’s also Kym Mazelle’s Wait (beats and pieces remix) that was the other beat sampled a lot

@irishmusico Год назад

I have to admit I hated everything that Stock Aitken and Waterman did back in the 80's. But as I get older I appreciate why they were so big back then. It wasn't until the Rick Roll started a few years ago that I started to listen to to them. Those guys really knew how to make a pop song. Thanks for making this video. Nice to see you back.

@elizabethclayton2587 Год назад

Yes they were fabulous!

@neonskyline1 Год назад

Mike Stock wrote the songs

@jamierobinson9097 Год назад

Yeah! I hated them back in the day too! But as I hit around 24 I started to appreciate how good they were

@mumbles215 Год назад

I too look back on some 80s stuff I didn’t like that the time, but really dig it now. Like Duran Duran stuff (girls on film). Didn’t like the new wave as a 10 yo rock n roller and it has its moments. Nice pop.

@elizabethclayton2587 Год назад

@@mumbles215 I agree

@defjeff2907 Год назад

Nice lesson! I'm going to create some variation like this on my Roland TR-8S with 707 and 727 sounds right now. Thanks Espen!

@EspenKraft Год назад

Cheers!

@adub303 Год назад

It used to be the basslines that stuck in my head the most before this video- but now I can't unhear that shaker part in like half of the hits from the 80's 🤣

@easytoassemble54321 Год назад

Apparently, the KLF worked as part of SAW's producer team, before they went off and wrote hits of their own.

@chriswareham Год назад

Not exactly as the KLF - while Bill Drummond was managing the band Brilliant, which featured Jimmy Cauty, they recorded an album with SAW. It must have been a weird mixture of extreme personalities, what with Youth of Killing Joke also being in Brilliant.

@jugstries Год назад

This DX7 bass patch has always been my fabled holy grail, I can remember digging for information for at least 15 years on forums online, and now I can't believe it has finally surfaced... I truly hope there's a chance you can share it with us S.A.W. fans!

@EspenKraft Год назад

These patches are not mine to give away.

@IDigress Год назад

You can get Dexed (free VST) and play original sysex banks from DX7 and a whole bunch of others. There's a huge collection available. Managed to find the legendary Lately/Solid bass too amongst many classics

@Havanacuba1985 Год назад

@@IDigress yes Dexed is awesome son many great patches to download

@garyfosdike9678 Год назад

The patch name is Bass1 for anyone that doesn't know!

@dykodesigns Год назад

Stock, Aitken and Waterman, the hit factory. They had an assembly line approach but it worked as they created the hottest hits of the late 80's. A lot of their tracks are genuine ear worms that are quite catchy. The same beat would work in their Kylie Minogue songs. Rick Astley and Mel & Kim are the most iconic for me personlly. So much early childhood nostalgia with those.

@dankeplace Год назад

Sigue Sigue Sputnk is my fav manufactured sound all for the wrong reasons.

@alexcncmacsalcar7324 Год назад

My favorites were Divine, Hazel Dean, and Dead or Alive.

@AutPen38 Год назад

I remember DJs at the time saying that some of the Rick Astley and Kylie songs had such similar backing tracks (bass and drums/percs) that if you mixed them together they actually started phasing!

@80ssynthfan48 Год назад

If you listen to the classic Trapped by Colonel Abrams (especially the later mix of late '85), you can hear elements of this rhythm, as well as the bassline which many people say SAW repurposed for Never Gonna Give You Up and recycled in Together Forever.

@grizcuz Год назад

Was just about to say the same, the bassline is pretty much a straight rip, just in a different key.

@persona83 Год назад

I started to write about Colonel Abrams but since you already did it, I'll just leave a like.

@RockstahRolln Год назад

Brilliant video! Thank you for breaking this down! Almost every SAW production tracks were hits back in the 80s!

@EspenKraft Год назад

Thanks!

@davetbassbos Год назад

These detailed breakdowns are fantastic and I don't care if it's turned into a joke, Never Gonna Give You Up is a great tune!

@totaltwit Год назад

Yeh, I had no idea what the song was until that string piece came in and BOOM instant smile - that's how it's done (making great records).

@MichaelSouhoka Год назад

I grew up with all PWL songs. And I recognized the drum and perc pattern of 727 and Linn. What a good old days!

@kevinstoneham1245 Год назад

Great job sir. I love trying to recreate other people’s tunes as well. I love that bass sound.

@EspenKraft Год назад

Thanks!

@alexcncmacsalcar7324 Год назад

“I have to say it’s a lot of fun recreating and rebuilding chart hit bangers like this”, I know exactly how you feel, I love recreating some of my favorite songs with my GarageBand app. and then sharing them (and showing off) with my family and friends. I also use the 727 a lot, as well as the 707, 808, and Lynn.

@bontempo1271 Год назад

After listening to the interview you did with Harding and Curnow it seems alot of the work they did had the club and dancing in mind, and i can hear this innocent little percussion groove is the magic layer that makes that happen. It creates an itch in your spine that makes you wanna move, it's kind of tribal. If you take it away, it doesn't work the same. It's sometimes low in the mix, but it's still having the same effect. I can understand why they simply re-used it.

@brucemillar Год назад

Great video, highly informative and entertaining and also brings back some memories. A bit of inspiration from this also, thanks!

@EspenKraft Год назад

Cheers!

@cortical1 Год назад

This is the most pleasurable way I've ever been Rick-rolled. LOL.

@tsg50647 Год назад

Hey thanks for sharing 💯🕺🏼

@EspenKraft Год назад

Cheers!

@tonykellydjt2805 Год назад

Always knew this! That's how they created a "Sound". I could mix many of their productions seamlessly. Kudos!

@EspenKraft Год назад

Cheers!

@JoseVGavila Год назад

I am glad you are back to your usual content. Keep it going!!!

@apislapis Год назад

Fabulous breakdown Espen, many thanks as I have more SAW tracks than I'd care to admit to, a guilty pleasure.

@jthorpe4droid Год назад

Cool video, shows how a simple idea becomes a great track

@jimmyfredriksson4798 Год назад

Nice video Espen. I re-created the bass sound for "She wan'ts to dance with me" by Rick Astley a few years back. I was a big fan of SAW back in the days haha. Always enjoy your videos mate!

@Dremix73 Год назад

Hi Firefox. Nice to see you here!

@jimmyfredriksson4798 Год назад

@@Dremix73 I’m always sneaking around 🤣. Thanks 🥰.

@westonsea Год назад

Mel & Kim too - Showing out! (Get fresh for the weekend)

@Adam-Y-Trancer Год назад

I had that figured rather quickly! Like I haven't really deep listened to that track lately but I just knew it had to be it! Iconic song always!!

@Adam-Y-Trancer Год назад

My favorite track of theirs so far is "You Think You're A Man" with Divine!!! Oh that drum section hits so hard!!! What an amazing and iconic Disco track!

@6581punk Год назад

Well they did call them the hit factory, they were rolling them off a production line without much thought. There's a Spitting Image sketch somewhere where there's a singer with a dial that has Jason, Kylie, Rick Astley on it :)

@dankeplace Год назад

This makes no sense, how can you roll off a production line and not have much thought to make hits? So they were lucky every time, or maybe, just maybe they thought very well what would produce a hit and honed in on that?

@mattierenton701 Год назад

its true, what they say.....

@EspenKraft Год назад

Not exactly true. They had a very good production team of mixers, programmers, background singers etc, and they worked long hours. They often tore down the arranegements and started over, mixed it a gazillion times etc, to get everything absolute right. There was a lot of sweat over each song, even if they can sound pretty similar. That does not come by itself. Just read Phil Hardings book "From the factory floor" and you'll see for yourself. ;-)

@MrLukescheybeler Год назад

They were an absolute production powerhouse that defined a decade. I think they’re hugely underrated. More in the tradition of Motown or Phil Spectre in terms of their process, if not their aesthetic.

@MrLukescheybeler Год назад

@@dankeplace “lucky lucky lucky” you mean…

@doordedeur Год назад

Stock Aitken and Waterman used the same backing tape for all their singers. They just hit play and let each singer sing in a new track. 😁

@DannyKavka Год назад

They also used the same mic on everyone.

@20windfisch11 Год назад

That should be a nice experiment, creating a mix track from all S.A.W. songs.

@sinewaves1631 Год назад

Is that actually true? I could believe it..

@bestdisco1979 Год назад

@@DannyKavka the Clarec sound field microphone,,whatever that was.

@grunions9648 Год назад

In fact, it was always Rick Astley singing as well. They just sped the tape up or down accordingly.

@TheRickster. Месяц назад

It wasn't just a Stock Aitken Waterman thing, it was an 80's style at the time. Don't forget SAW ripped off a lot of other artists too like Colonel Abrams - Trapped...Lucky for the internet we found out about it.

@reneandrensennirod Год назад

I like all of your videos!👍 Great job!👑 Don't stop 🙂

@EspenKraft Год назад

Cheers!

@djGreenALERT Год назад

I never knew they used a 727 Espen, but I knew years ago how most of their tracks had a similar pattern because I spent a very long time in the 80's mixing their 12'' singles together and they were just so easy to mix

@EspenKraft Год назад

Yes, they were made that way most of the time.

@djGreenALERT Год назад

@@EspenKraft I forgot to thank you for showing us how easy the pattern was to recreate. It'll be nice to hear how it sounds on different drum machines, and It will give new life to all their old tracks.

@TheShamblingUnknown Год назад

Interesting. So what was the process for making a longer 12" version of a song ? I mean this is with multitrack tape masters right, so how would you get things to extend and loop etc. I used to love that 12" inch version of Altered Images "I Could Be Happy". How would Martin Rushent make those versions ?

@EspenKraft Год назад

No, they did it backwards. They made the 12" first and cut that down to the radio edits.

@TheShamblingUnknown Год назад

@@EspenKraft You are pulling my leg. Ok New Order did Blue Monday only as a 12" but you would have to have the original song down first before you decided which bits to isolate, extend or loop. No ?

@garyseymour6319 Год назад

Unbelievable, Rick Rolled by stealth. I knew it was that song as soon as the percussion started.

@McTroyd Год назад

Interesting... I've heard that song more times than I'd care to admit, and never noticed the percussion part was that complex. Maybe it's the meme-ification, maybe the radio's broadcast limiter was crushing it out of existence. Looks like I'm going to have to borrow some CDs to fix a hole in my 80s knowledge.

@KordTaylor Год назад

Great video. They were quite the 80's movers!

@EspenKraft Год назад

Cheers!

@RabidBatMusic Год назад

Really enjoyed this, welcome back!

@samborn7120 Год назад

Great vid Espen! Really enjoyed this one!

@Novaheart1998 Год назад

They used the same synth sounds , drum sounds , same chords and arrangements across several artists , like Rick Astley , Donna Summers, kylie, Bananarama, its all the same! 💃

@klinkske Год назад

Should i be proud or ashamed that i already knew the track, hearing the percussion only :) i was a teen that recorded tapes for family and grandma was a great fan of the coffee boy from saw

@mixingmasteringonline Год назад

Great work! It’s amazing how the percussion sounds uninspiring on its own but stick it on a track in the 80’s and you can fill a dance floor. 🕺 Maybe it still works… 🤔

@EspenKraft Год назад

Cheers!

@kbtube8125 Год назад

now you need to add flith too on the 2 and 4.

@cedfan1 Год назад

I absolutely ❤️ Stock Aitken Waterman ! Their use of that bassline is like crack to me. Never gonna give them up. 😀👍👍 Great video !

@afriend9428 Год назад

*loved ONE Donna Summer song and all Kylie Minogue numbers off her 1st album* 😂

@tr7inc Месяц назад

Fantastic classic tracks😊

@emlynkhelicopter6975 Год назад

I found a stack of Smash Hits magazines from 1985 to 1989 in a loft a few years ago. Prior to 1988 UK pop seemed to be a spread of astonishingly rich production from the likes of Trevor Horn, Chris Hughes, Alan Tarney, Steve Levine etc. Post 1988, it was dominated by Stock Aitken & Waterman's Imperial Bubblegum Era and at the time I hated it. Now, though, I can see it's charm.

@GRAHAMAUS Год назад

Hmmm, I can't. Care to share? SAW were a scourge on pop music in the 80s, turning it from something creative into a money-making factory. Still, the public bought it, as usual.

@vacuumelite2065 Год назад

S. A. & W were so potent, the 'music biz elite' tried every dirty trick in the book to shut them down. Find an excellent interview on SAGE OF QUAY with Mike Stock. Rember also; Pete Waterman was in no way responsible for any music creation. Pete was/is a classic mover, shaker, fixer. Mike Stock comes over as an absolute darling. ❤️❤️❤️❤️

@marcio1563 Год назад

Awesome ! Thanks!

@larsvanbekkum78 Год назад

Amazing this! Somehow i missed this video, always wanted to know how to make a stock.a.&w. Track.

@marioharoldtellezbarros5986 Год назад

You can be listening to or simply hearing the first 4 seconds of a song, no matter of tempo, and you certainly now it is the PWL sound, no doubt. SAW stablished an unique rythm pattern recognized all over the world. Greetings from CHILE.

@dsanj4745 Год назад

Good job replicating a popular tune! It's also nice to see Nuendo still in use in 2022. The arrangement window looks like Cubase 5 from what I remember.

@EspenKraft Год назад

Thanks! Correct, I have both Nuendo 4 and Cubase 5 from the gear where I worked back then. As a glorified tape recorder and sequencer they still work just fine for my purposes. ;-)

@CraigRodmellMusic Год назад

Nice to see you back, Espen!

@christiaantinga Год назад

I was guessing Mel & Kim's "Showing out". hahaha. Great video!

@ToreHansen Год назад

Rick Rolled! One of the trio was asked that week they had 10% of the hits in UK how radio had been if they had, and the reply was boring to listen to radio. So at the least know what they did.

@80ssynthfan48 Год назад

SAW were parodied superbly in This is the Chorus by Morris Minor and the Majors.

@ShallRemainUnknown Год назад

Cool, sounds like I gotta check that out, then!

@FairchlldMusic1 Год назад

The original percussion track sounds like it was done on the TR-626, as it had tuneable drum sounds ( I can hear it in the congas or whatever they are )

@Ojref1 Год назад

Heh, I think I know where Reznor got the basis for the Head like a Hole drum machine. Right down to the disco timing.

@rusekamppelli4519 Год назад

This is the most educative rickroll ever made. But seriously, very interesting video.

@EspenKraft Год назад

Cheers!

@TayWoode 11 месяцев назад

If you listen to the TR727 factory demo you’ll hear they didn’t even program it they just used parts of the demo in a lot of songs, also Kym Mazelles wait (beats and pieces) and Mandy Smiths victim of pleasure (Justin Strauss mix) were two other beats that were sampled a lot

@coryndavies Год назад

fantastic ! I thought the main drum machine was the Mpc60 , love the Dx bass as always

@ZeNN-Music Год назад

S/A/W made solid hits and knew how to program their 80ies hardware.

@BossySwan Год назад

We’re no strangers to drums

@sheenodj Год назад

Really great breakdown!

@EspenKraft Год назад

Cheers!

@deadlymarsupial1236 Год назад

Yep they were like a factory producing a lot of products made by the same set of widgets.

@simonkormendy849 Год назад

Lol....I lost count of how many times I heard that exact same drum and bass tracks on so many Stock Aitken & Waterman tracks from the late 80's and early 90's, yes, they really were that ubiquitous.

@discogareth Год назад

I remember my PWL childhood records, all had ‘Drums by A Linn’. For many, many years I thought it was a person!

@mardyart Год назад

Did you just Rick Roll us? This is the Ultimate Rick Roll.

@nickjh1968 Год назад

And didn’t we know it. The nauseating cacophony that soundtracked the late 80s courtesy of S/A/W drove me crazy. Interesting analysis though.

@pakozdiattila Год назад

Hi Espen! I have also this multitrack and as you says that in the '80-s was brilliant musicians, producers and artists. Everyone must heard every single tracks from this multitrack... Michael Jackson - Billie Jean , Peter Gabriel - Sladgehammer. The Pet Shop Boys It's a sin... is the original studiorecording.. no effect, no stems... 32 raw track... it's insane...

@easychats Год назад

I must admit i liked some of the Dead or Alive 12” mixes they did. A lot going on in them, a bit of a guilty pleasure. 😮

@VygintasKDG Год назад

Damn, this was a great Rick roll!

@fkthewhat Год назад

The most creative way I've ever been Rick Rolled xD

@RegebroRepairs Год назад

Up until the strings you totally got me, I though it was "I should be so lucky". 🙂

@yzimsx Год назад

The original is playing an interesting three-pitch melodic pattern with the bongo or whatever it is.

@KariKauree Год назад

Yes, and the "recreation" is not

@jizzmaster2000 Год назад

Sir I love this recreation video. PLease do more, the 80s can be bad but can also be very good. I always enjoy your videos. (not so much the tesla ones lol)

@EspenKraft Год назад

Thanks! I might have some more like this from time to time.

@jizzmaster2000 Год назад

I'd love some info on Ace of bass drums and sound, but that's more 90s ?

@rectify2003 Год назад

Rick Astley bought out a new album a few years ago I believe Thanks for the upload

@Yoofaloof Год назад

They were masters of their craft. Their music and instrumentation just made and still makes me so happy. Sadly lacking in today's music.

@chriswatson2407 Год назад

You rick-rolled me you prankster.

@bingbangbong3159 Год назад

You make me want to listen to all these songs again. Actually, I never stopped (loving you etc bla bla bla).

@michaelnutsch221 Год назад

Well, I never realized how original the patches were which I downloaded. Although some sound so familiar

@nobodynoone2500 Год назад

I had one of these but was a pain to sequence so I sold it. Turns out Aphex Twin had recently been seen using one and it got good money. I don't miss it.

@TheWooloomoolloo Год назад

Actually Hazel Dean comes to mind first at the very beginning. Not Kylie, Jason, Rick, Bananarama or anyone else. :)

@kz1000ps Год назад

Those mofos reused the same drum and percussion patterns on damn near every song. Set the tempo to around 110 bpm on the Linn 9000, four on the floor kick, 16th note hi-hat, and then layer on lots of 727 agogo bells and claps. Every. Damn. Song.

@sauermusicDE Год назад

And they often added some Roland Alpha Juno toms. The synth did not have internal drum samples. It was a chromatically playable preset patch on that synth.

@kz1000ps Год назад

@@sauermusicDE Ooo I didn't know that. Thanks, I love learning sample sources like that!

@robsmith6794 Год назад

Not quite the "hit factory" but something that rhymes with "hit". Just knocking out the same old sh*t with different vocalists.

@keithmurray9241 Год назад

You have an amazing ear!! Amazing how you're able to pick this stuff apart... wonder when you started your fascination with electronic instruments? Thanks for sharing your wealth of knowledge!!

@EspenKraft Год назад

Cheers!

@station2station544 Год назад

I had to look these guys up because I didn't recognize them. Wiki has a list of all their work. It's def long, but I only know 2-3 songs.

@iangough3062 Год назад

Welcome back Espen, I have missed your vids but for some reason I never got to see the Fake Espen monstrosities.

@ArturdeSousaRocha Год назад

So, after all these years I finally did get rickrolled... by a drum machine of all things. 😆

@craiggilchrist4223 Год назад

I actually got it by the timing in the percussion and sang it and it fit.

@gavinfaherty7085 Год назад

The most elaborate Rick-roll ever haha

@rick_terscale1111 Год назад

Wait ... have we just been Rick Rolled? LOL

@djdiegomolina Год назад

Rick astley never gonna give. The same pattern

@larslevinberget9558 Год назад

True. I analyzed this A LOT as a 15 year old kid, on Saturday nights, wading through the snow, sipping vodka & grape soda, sharing fruit flavored Sorbits with my girlfriend as she held on to my left hand thinking "wow, he must do some wild arpeggios!" ... we had REAL winters in the 80s! Seriously, I noticed that S.A.W. arranged the rhythm section into 3 drum/percussion parts and 3 bass parts, the 6 together created a polyphonic "groove" out of the robotic machines, to make it danceable :D

@neilbradley Год назад

I've always found Together Forever and Never Gonna Give You Up were just countermelodies of one another. I'm surprised more people didn't hear it.

@80ssynthfan48 Год назад

Oh I totally noticed it. Both were presumably, let's say, "influenced" by the classic Trapped by Colonel Abrams.

@jizzmaster2000 Год назад

Cool I hear it now yes.

@jizzmaster2000 Год назад

@@80ssynthfan48 not really hearing the influence of trapped unless you mean the bass and drums?

@80ssynthfan48 Год назад

@@jizzmaster2000 Yes, the bass and drums, not the melody.

@jizzmaster2000 Год назад

@@80ssynthfan48 Do you think it was a 727 and DX ?

@caeserromero3013 Год назад

Every time by my reckoning. That's how you knew it was a SAW track...

@jaco1982za Год назад

I can't help but feel a bit... rolled... Awesome work though, as always!

@mikolasstrajt3874 Год назад

If this was the drum roll at the beginning I would detect it in a milisecond. :-D

@totaltwit Год назад

I wonder, is that my DX7s? Does it have a cig burn on the edge of the moulding for the two wheels? Patch number 6 switch was a bit wonky, but that might have been fixed. I agree, it's not about obsessing over kit, it's getting the right sounds/parts fitting together. I did a Tell It To My Heart by Taylor Dayne, it has the most insane drum pattern, one that should not fit anything. As I un-mute the other tracks the song just jumps out of the speakers! Recreating hits is a great way to learn about how songs are made.