"Grey Market" is a name made up by 'official' sellers in their respective countries in order to force people to buy expensive, overpriced gear from them. All my camera gear since my Nikon D5200 was "Grey Market" and I never had any issues with them all, I currently own a D850 and D780 complete with scary "Grey Market" lenses. I have saved thousands of pounds in avoiding over priced camera gear.
Yeah, I dont know if this story with Nikon is true or not, but If its is its totally their BS. I would be extremely bad customer if they would told me that they wont service the lens or camera because its from different region. Im not sure that they can legally tell this to customers in EU anyway.
In Canada I've run into issues where they won't service Grey market nikon stuff .. also forfeit warranty, not worth it imo here in Canada.. I understand Eu often pays an extra premium though so may be worth it in that case, assuming you don't get a lemon.
@@chuckdavidson5483 It's not affordable.. it's preowned.. and if you really want to know what pisses me the EFF off is that it's only $300 less than a brand new one.. The thing is that with the MP they build like maybe 100 (if that) a year.When they get shipped to a store that has a waiting list of 10 people or more -yeah that shop will get 2 pieces.
One mistake I made was selling gear and buying new before I got the most from the old. Buying new gear will not improve your skill. Go out and shoot every day and get better with the gear you have. That's the enjoyable part of photography. Reading reviews and forums is important but know when to turn everything off and get outside!
Same. I bought a D3200 at a pawn shop without knowing anything about it. I later traded up to a D5500, even though I never really mastered the D3200, because of the Veri-Angle touch screen. Then I traded up again to a D7500, again without mastering the D5500. I love the D7500 but I did have a bit of buyers remorse because I loved the D5500 too. I sold the D5500 with the kit lens yesterday.
I would actually disagree with that somewhat. Learning about gear and lenses can be useful and if you got a DSLR it might be the best type of camera to learn with as it provides more options for you, more future potential. Sure you can also learn fundamentals like color balance, exposure and such on phone, but a full DSLR will make you learn way more than that.
I find it amazing that in 2021 manufacturers still get away with refusing to repair things because they were bought in a different country. As if people don't move around a lot nowadays. And it's one thing to say the warranty isn't valid in another country, but it's another to refuse to even sell the parts to a repair shop so you can't even pay to get it repaired.
German situation: Your warranty is with the seller of the goods not the manufacturer. If you bring a grey market camera to Canon CPS (like a certain Ex-coworker thst boasted about how big a dealmaker he was had to) they give you the choice "Contact the seller or pay for the repair as if the warranty has expired" If you bring a german market camera to the CPS they take over the warranty (they need to see a bill with date of service). AFTER they have accepted the camera they politely ask "why not the seller" (at least if the seller is a resonably close brick and mortar shop). That"s okay - why would one skip the seller, the CPS was a bit out of the way until recently so this might hint at problems with service quality at an official dealer. In my case - the dealer was 25km, half through a large city and in the evening. CPS was 1000m down the road during lunchbreak
You should be able to repair at your cost no matter where you bought the equipment. I live in UK, tomorrow I might move to Poland, next year in Thailand. So I can't fix camera if I am abroad? That is not right!
I have the same kit. I also use an older Nikkor 50mm f/1.4 AF too, this is comparable due to crop, to the 80mm high end Portrait/Fashion Nikkor MF that I used to use back in the day on my F3hp back in the wonderful film days.
I believe generally what they are saying are correct.....bigger sensors in average bodies are better IQ wise, and low light wise. But when you go to flagship type cameras, sensors are so excellent, like the D500, that gives you a tremendous sensor, and the advantage of length from a crop sensor, it’s really insignificant the loss of any perceived image quality over the full frame equivalent, and actually adds benefits that are more important in particular situations.
They actually say if you use full frame lense with cropped sensor, the pixel density is higher on the body. So if the lense was for 34mp on a full frame, then if you use a 20mp cropped, you are fine. But if you use something higher, you lose to sharpness. Where cropped lenses usually take this into consideration so they are generally sharper at the same price. But in your case it should be fine because it is a telephoto that won't be really sharp anyway and your camera isn't a crazy high megapixel one.
Still harping on about not using full frame lenses on APS-C bodies eh. Funny, my Nikon D500 doesn't seem to mind - it is a joy to use with my 300mm f/2.8 + 1.4 TC. I know many people also use the D500 with the Nikon 200 - 500mm f/5.6, both of these lenses are full frame and these combos produce the goods. Even my old AF-S 300mm f/4 D is an amazing match with the D500.
I agree! I even use my diddy Nikon z50 toy camera, connected via the ftz adapter to the 200-500 f 5.6. It certainly resolves more detail than I expected with phenomenal sharpness. Yet we were told it was a useless idea putting aps-c in a Z mount. I couldn't be happier. There's a lot of misconceptions and media hype out there. There's soon to be a ftz adapter with screw drive announced. So I think Nikon is certainly the most loyal brand out there.
@@timothylatour4977 FX lenses generally have better optics. Nikon did make a few good DX lenses, but you get better quality with FX lenses. Price wise, well the good DX lenses like the 17-55 f2.8 and 12-24 f4 are expensive too. You can also find good lenses on the used market. Especially now that Nikon’s dropped many of its f lenses. And when I buy a good used D700, I’ve got my lenses already. Best of all, I can buy DX or FX lenses.
D7500 with Sigma 35mm ART 1.4 and Tamron 70-200 2.8 G2, they work together without a problem. I am thinking to upgrade to a Z6 II, but i am not in a hurry.
A FF body will give better IQ than it’s equivalent crop body, but it has nothing to do with lens compatibility, it’s simply the FF sensor vs the smaller crop sensor. Though Tony obviously believes there’s more to it than that.
Actually disagreeing with you, for once, and strongly, on 3rd party batteries. I too used to hate, for instance, Wasabi batteries for Sony mirrorless. After a couple years of swearing by only Sony batteries, decided to try Rav Power batteries. They’ve outperformed Sony, even after 20x the charge cycles of the OEM.
I've had great luck with Rav Power in both my Sony a6000s and my Canon 6D and 7D. I've found the Tamron FF 24-70/f 2.8 and 70-200/f2.8. The 70-200 does a pretty good job on the Canon 7D.
Not sure that the battery thing is as bad as they are saying today....maybe several years ago....sure,...but nowadays the cheap terrible batteries of yesteryear have been shunned, that now third party battery manufacturers are producing better equivalents and trying to promote their own name, and can’t do that if they produce junk. The price of aftermarket batteries have risen somewhat because good batteries cost more to produce then cheap junk batteries. Check reviews, and unless you get an individual clunker, they seem to be a quite adequate replacement to OE batteries.
I have had MANY bad experiences with 3rd party batteries, Wasabi included (one that swelled to the point of being stuck in the camera). Life-time decreasing severely with use... etc. ...
screw that, in life do not skimp on expenses with anything to do with batteries , power cables, chargers, power adapters and shoes. It is not worth it,.
I started off on film with a Pentax 35mm film camera & went to college with it. Learned printing, developing film etc. Had it for years. It hit the biscuit. I went through a bunch of point and shoot pocket digital cameras and these were early. I was never satisfied and gave up photography for a while. A few years ago I received a Nikon D3400 entry level camera as a gift from family to encourage me to get back into things. It has no wifi and no mic jack and has other limitations. However.. it has been great. I’m on a budget. I saved up to purchase two third party speedlites & controller, a 50mm 1.8 and two of my children started hockey so I picked up a 70-300 ( which is variable aperture). I watched your video on shooting in snow, spot metering, exposure compensation etc which helped with the ice surface and bad images I started to get. That fixed that issue really fast. The camera battery beats anything on the market. Most cameras get 300 shots or 500 shots, I’m doubling that. And I have more than one battery. I can go through six hockey games in a tournament and not run out of power ( that’s if the team reaches the finals). Over the last several years I’ve added soft boxes, umbrellas, continuous lighting and an external audio recorder to have better sound. Regardless of what people think of Entry level and 11 focus points, & 5 frames a second, I’m getting amazing images 24 megapixels . If I had a choice to upgrade, I’d be looking at a D7500 so I can use my lenses I own and other features I don’t have. These features have nothing to do with the image. It’s my eye and my composition and how I use the exposure triangle. I’ve watched RU-vid videos .. get this, get that, oh this softbox is the best etc. Oh click the link and “ I get a commission or buy my presets “ I’m not buying the sales pitch. I could use an f:/2.8 lens fixed aperture zoom. But I’m on a budget. So I use the equipment I have and adapt. That better lens might give me an extra stop or two of light and bokeh. I’m doing just fine and I’m here to challenge that because there’s nothing wrong with my images as far as exposure goes. I look at things to either improve, motivated, or looking at something I haven’t considered photographing & how to do it. I photograph a lot of different things. Lots of fun. Love the challenge. Like to challenge myself. I like to push the limits of my equipment to get the best results I can. I’m always learning something new. I have a diploma in archives. I consider myself a documentary photographer because I am recording a moment in time, an event, people or place. There’s a story to capture. Can I do that with what the subject is projecting to me? OR do I have to use my skills to interpret that for the viewer when I press the shutter? Thanks for the video.
I wish I could add more likes to your comment. That stuff is so true for me too. My little D3500 does what I need it to do and I don't need all the bells and whistles that comes with more expensive cameras.
That "don't put ff lenses on crop bodies" is just for pixelpeepers. Sorry, but gradually switching to FF works for sooo many people, and the quality difference might be completely irrelevant for most people. "Image" comes from imagination, not from pixel-perfection.
Even pixelpeepers should be satisfied. I definitely would like anyone to demonstrated that FF lenses are worse on an APS-C body than an APS-C lens. It sounds rather ludicrous to me for many technical reasons.
I always buy used gear and if I don't get on with it I'll sell it on, usually for about the same money. That way I get my gear fix on the cheap. By the way, my favourite combo is the D500 with the 200-500mm so mixing fx and dx isn't a problem for me. Good vid though guys
This is the way....also, If you buy from boomers with too much money they tend to buy from autosized dealers, and you avoid the grey market situation as well.
Great vid and some really excellent advice. The only point I’d debate is FF lenses on APS bodies. Certainly I’ve found the D500 with a 300PF with a 1.4TC or a 200-500mm Nikon lens works brilliantly. Maybe these are the exceptions rather than the rul?
I think they are correct with average consumer body’s between FF and crop......but flagships like D500 with great sensors and processors, and added reach, it’s a mute point.
I totally agree. I would like anyone to explain to me what are the problems with using a FF lens on an APS-C camera in terms of image quality (it sounds in fact that the quality should be better as the camera is only using the center of the circle of light.
Yes, "exception". Typical examples of "FF lens on APS C being a bad idea" would be my Sigma 14/3.5 or 24/1.8 or buying an expensive bulky wide FF zoom instead of a significantly cheaper APS counterpart, like a good kit zoom or a 12-24/4, that could still take pictures while you are saving up for 2nd & 3rd FF bodies. 50mm and up FF lenses might be OK (I'm happy with mine but didn't invest in high res crop bodies. Mediocre glass on FF seemed more appealing.)
Tamron service is great! I have a 15-30mm f/2.8 (old model) and they updated the firmware so it would work with the Nikon Z-mount adapter (FTZ). All it cost was shipping and I am very happy with it.
My strategy for looking through reviews is to look for similar negative reviews. If one person says the lens has slow AF then maybe that was user error or they got a malfunctioning lens or something. If a dozen people say the lens has slow AF, maybe it has slow AF. Almost every product has positive reviews if it has enough reviews, and positive reviews don't often get specific.
The problem with 5 star reviews is that people often make them right away with no time to find the little problems. Unless they say something like "After using it every weekend for a year" you have to take reviews with a grain of salt.
Yes I am a negative review reader too. Same as you, I look for consistency. When Amazon used to let you comment on reviews the negative reviews got lots of haters. I want to thank all of you out there that leave negative reviews. Even if I don't agree, I don't take it as a personal affront if you don't like my favorite gear.
Tony and Chelsea, I just wanna say that I love your videos. You guys put so much work into them and you passion really shines right through. I'm a new photographer and still have much to learn, but I have gained so much from your videos and podcasts. Keep up the good work!!
yup, I've done that too on Fujifilm. Just recently made the first purchase towards a fully autofocused lens lineup, though I'll probably buy the Viltrox 1.4s instead of the Fujis because they're still too expensive for me anyway
I have the opposite of 'confirmation bias' - I spend hours researching something until I'm sure it will be good, AND then when I get it, complain endlessly about how disappointed I am because it didn't hold up to my high expectations. LOL. A frustrating bad habit to have. I agree with buying just what you need and maybe buying two cameras for different tasks - especially if you can get one cheap-ish. However, I really struggle to do this, as I keep mentally spending incrementally more for slight gains, until I eventually buy that expensive version that is more than I need...
There is a lot of muddy thinking about value. The concepts I am exploring are not specific to photography: they are used by fortune 500 companies to buy everything from paper clips to new buildings. A FEATURE: is a characteristic specific to a product or service, but has no inherent relationship to any specific user It can be be expressed by the phrase: "this is what we have, is it any use to you?" A BENEFIT: is specific to the potential purchaser and represents something that will either improve their performance, or mitigate a limit to their performance. This could be expressed by the line by the Spice Girls: "Tell me what you want, what you REALLY, REALLY want!" VALUE: is only achieved when you can map a feature to a benefit. So, to give an example. A camera has an ability to shoot 4k video - that's a FEATURE. However, since I don't shoot video it does not map to a benefit I need, so it has no value in my buying evaluation. The following process works: 1. Establish Your Criteria: Define BENEFITS you want, rank them in priority: MUST HAVE, Want, would be nice... 2. Research for Products: Find products that have FEATURES the match your benefits list 3. Compare and Filter: Remove any that don’t match your “must have” criteria 4. Reduce the list to 2-3. 5. Evaluate: Try out the gear with a hands-on evaluation 6. Make your purchase: Shop around for good deals from reliable vendors that support local warranties. As regards advice for camera buyers: I contribute to a couple of fora ( yes, I admit it!!! I was a professional but am now retired), and see frequent inquiries on the theme of 'what camera should I buy?' As mentioned, I inevitably see these requests with the absolute minimum of information provided (which tells you something), yet members (some very senior) respond (without further clarification) with a recommendation based on THEIR shooting situation. I resist this, and instead suggest the following questions for the potential purchaser to consider, and hopefully answer, if they want a valid response. 1. If you have camera gear, what specifically are its limitations that hold you back from taking the images you want? If they don't know, it might well serve them better to invest in education, via on-line on local courses and workshops, camera societies or for those just starting, question #5 becomes relevant... 2. What is the budget? So many people over-invest in gear that offers them no benefit (as per the above) and blow their budget, or are tempted to keeping upping the investment. They are encouraged by the GAS community, who believe that the latest iteration of gear will unleash the hitherto latent talent that lies within them. I was working with an educational facility that was conducting a series of courses on photography. Despite clear guidelines that the right camera should have controls for aperture and shutter priority, and manual and that the maximum size was 1500 pixels on the long dimension of an image, students were being persuaded to put themselves into debt to get the latest and most expensive gear. GAS is different from those who engage with the gear from a purely technical perspective as they are not necessarily seeking to leverage a photographic performance benefit. 3. What Subjects will you take: This helps to identify the types of equipment - e.g. video or not, general-purpose, travel, wildlife, portraits - all of these will give clues to the consultant about Fields of View, sensor dynamic range etc. (impacting lenses and sensors). For specific purposes, or to evaluation gear, renting equipment may be a much better solution. For that once-in-a-lifetime trip to the Masai Mara to shoot the great migration, not having to invest in a suitable super tele lens, transport it to Africa, use it and return it may not be the best solution: especially if one is not likely to need that type of gear again. Many such travel companies can arrange renting of gear at the location of the shoot, thus reducing investment and risk. 4. What Will you PRODUCE: I rarely see this question asked, yet it is arguably the MOST significant question! It takes a lot greater investment to provide the gear for high end Art (with a capital A), large, hi-res prints, than for social media sites that are likely to downsize images or digital displays. In the end, the final output is what it is all about. For those looking at part-time professional work, the challenge is balancing an often limited budget with a need to be able to provide images in the event of unexpected situations or gear failure. 5. What are your intentions: People take photos for a huge range of reasons: from purely social and casual photography: where the priority is not the taking of images, but the engagement. Parents with kids, school events, social events. Then there are students in photography who likely have limited budgets and are yet to confirm their specific career and gear choices. Enthusiasts who may be engaged in competition for example, and finally professionals for whom the camera is a tool to produce products or services (although they are unlikely to be engaging in this process). Each of these perspectives will have a different value-set and priority, and establishing those can make a huge difference. When looking at a long-term engagement, the gear as a system is worth considering, as changing brands can be an expensive process... 6. What are you prepared to carry: Depending upon the activity, large and heavy gear may not be appropriate. For example: for travel, one may want more compact and lighter gear to reduce risks during transit and offer more convenience. Multi-day hikers may well choose a similar type of gear as it has to compete with hiking equipment in the pack but may also have to be more rugged. As we age, or have injuries, less is often more. In the end the best camera is the one you are prepared to carry with you. 7. Ergonomics and Interface: Simply looking at specs and reviews does not offer the experience of manipulating the controls and menus of a camera. I have seen people pay out significant sums for gear and then hate how it feels and operates in the hands. They either have to sell it and get something else (at a cost), or suck it up and get used to the limitations.
Trevor Thanks very much for sharing your experience. I'm 55, a Master Plumber, and have been scouring multiple sources for information for my first camera, lens, and accessories purchase. I'd like to do general photography and video of friends and family, landscape with sunsets over lakes, and some wildlife including hummingbirds. Luckily, I've had the time to read and watch hours of RU-vid videos and read multiple fora (yes, 4 years of H. S. and 2 yrs of university Latin!). Unlucky is that I had the time from two cancer surgeries (all is well) and spine fusion surgery (meh), all in 2021! All of your thoughts are spot on. Many people buy with their emotions, and decisions based on emotions are usually not wise. This advice can be used not only for camera purchases, but for anything, even regular, everyday decisions. I've taught many Apprentices in my career who love GAS. Good quality tools are important, but the skills behind them are what's important. Like they say in shooting pool: It's not the stick, it's the shooter! Going to try and get in touch with you on your Channel. Thanks
Welp, a third party battery killed my d4. Im 16 so i didn't wanna spend 240 bucks i didn't have on a battery. I had my d4 in rain and sadly the bl6 didn't close properly. Rain got in and now i have to fix it. No one will touch it with water damage, luckily i build cameras though...
@@Neopulse00 yeah, i figure I'll just turn it into a d4s. Luckily i have a d600, just got a d3s, a em1, and my school just gave me a gh5 so my d4 isn't my only camera. I just hate how its so expensive to fix (d3300 motherboard is 50 bucks and the d4s is 700)
Good discussion. With due respect, two big issues I had with professional reviewers when I was upgrading from my D750: 1 - Pro reviewers don’t give nearly enough weight to the cost of changing brand systems. The Sony xxxx might be superior to the Nikon yyyy is some areas, but most people with a big investment in lenses won’t see that improvement as worth a wholesale change. 2 - For my work as a non-vlogger, I really don’t care if the Sony/Fuji has a flip screen and the Nikon does not. I’ll almost never need it even if a vlogger thinks it’s indispensable.
Oh yes this second thing happens way too much. So many of the reviews are from vloggers or streamers and they only focus on their own personal use-case! It's frustrating and not so audience friendly. I like about Tony and Chelsea that they buck this trend and frequently talk about "what works for you" and the different ways things are used in different situations. I wish there was more of that.
That’s why you should buy for the glass. I shoot Canon because I researched and bout a lot of Vintage EF L lenses. It might not be as sharp as other lenses but the unique look makes my photos stand Out. EF135 f2 is one gem.
You have to watch reviews and also must read forums because reviews are mostly new gear thats maybe 1 day old. A month from now your gonna find the problems and post on the forums looking for answers. Goodluck people
My problem is that I don't know which used camera's are best for what purposes. There are so many different Nikon and Canon models. I would like some sort of map on what model lines are good for what.
This video would be very useful for me a year ago, I bought a full frame sony camera and didn't know about the meaning of APS-C lens thought is was just about the field of view and later I understood that the resolution of my images was divided by 2! 🙄
I enjoy shooting 35mm color film. Being 21 years old and native to digital photography, I find film much more satisfying and rewarding to me. I have been doing this for about a year and one of the mistakes I made was wanting a camera that did everything. I would buy and sell over and over, looking for a camera I was truly satisfied with. It finally dawned on me that there was no camera that was going to be great at everything I wanted to shoot. So, I bought a Nikon N90 for fast moving objects with its sharp autofocus, a Canon AE-1 Program for amazing still life and macro photos, and an Olympus OM-1 for its small and lightweight body and to take more casual photos with. I also enjoy the fact that the shutter doesn't require a battery. Just realize sometimes that perfect all in one camera you may seek doesn't exist. And while, each of these cameras can do it all, they may not do it as well as others will.
APS-C bodies only with APS-C lenses otherwise the quality is degraded? Sorry I have to write it but this is a complete nonsense without any technical reasons or explanations. Before swithing to fullframe years ago, I was using bunch of FF lenses on a Canon APS-C cameras. 50/1.4, 85/1.4, 135/2.0 and from the technical point of view I had great pictures with them. The only limitations were the resolution capabilities of each glass vs pixel pitch and AA filter strength of each particular sensor. And some of the flaws of FF lenses were even less noticeable on the APS-C than on the FF - such as vigneting, corner distortions, PF and CA. You should realize that lens do not know what sensor size is behind them and they just perform as they perform. No matter if they draw a picture on APS-C or FF. Of course APS-C naturally tend to have smaller pixel sizes when compared to the same resolution FF but is an issue of the sensor not the lens or sensor size.
I totally agree about using FF on a APS-C body. The opinion stated in the video sounds quite unfounded to me. I would like someone to explain to me what are the problems with using a FF lens on an APS-C camera in terms of the ultimate result, image quality (it sounds in fact that the quality with an FF lens should be better as the APS-C camera is only using the center of the circle of light). The vast majority of lenses are designed and built for the same resolution whether FF or APS-C. In fact APS-C cameras only use the center of FF lenses' circle of light, as a consequence they have almost no vignetting and better corner resolution at wide apertures.
I have bought a lot of gear used online and I can knock on wood say I have never had an issue with a single item. The one thing I have done on every occasion is get to know the user of the gear who is selling it. most of the gear has been expensive bodies and lenses so its my expectation that the user is a practicing photographer. Red flags are people selling expensive gear who wouldn't know a F stop if it hit them in the face. I have asked to see their Instagram page to see if they have work they produced with the gear. I think this has saved me from buying something that is questionable or even worse could be a fraud.
The modern crop of Sigma and Tamron lenses leave very little to be desired and there are many unique lenses that the first party camera companies don’t make themselves.
When I decided to go mirrorless to replace my old 5DII I was looking at the available lenses first for FF mirrorless systems. For travel and generic shooting I like the 24-105 range, so to be able to get such a lens was crucial. Thus, Nikon was out. Taking photos should be fun, I borrowed a Sony and I couldn't get around the ergonomics (maybe I'm too much used to Canon). Sony was out.
Go to squarespace.com/Chelsea & save 10% off your first website or domain with code “Chelsea” UPDATE: Nikon gear, regardless whether its a body or lens, with a serial number that begins with the number 3 indicates that it will not be serviced in the US (thanks Rob!)
The sigma 50 1.4 adapted to the EOS R is like a bad girlfriend 😂! When you nail the focus, it’s beautiful! But on the occasional back side focus is the root of our toxic relationship! 😂
The Canon EOS R and RP is my backup camera. This duo has worked so well for me in my business. When the R5 & R6 came out, I felt like there was no need for me to upgrade to those cameras when my current two were completely fine. I won’t make anymore money using those cameras. I invested in the RF glass instead.
The argument against using FF lenses on APS-C bodies hits a brick wall when it comes to super telephoto lenses. There are just not any super telephoto, APS-C lenses out there for wildlife photographers. Also, the FF lenses from camera manufacturers do tend to have a much better build compared to the APS-C lenses. Camera manufacturers do not weather sealed APS-C lenses, period. I do not understand Tony’s argument against [ever] using FF lenses on APS-C bodies. For example, you get less vignetting.
Tony will be the first to concede that the technical build of the ff lenses (e.g. Canon L lenses) is better. But he is saying that pairing those great L lenses with a crop sensor can give you worse results than using a lens optimized for the smaller sensor. These results are real-world, not lab testing. It's not an issue of comparing lens to lens; the ff lenses will always win those contests. It is an issue of the pairing. He also does not mean the L lenses on a crop body will be bad. He's saying that the results will be no better (and usually worse) than using the APS-C lenses. As an analogy, I want WalMart shoes that fit me rather than the top Nike shoes that are 2 sizes too small or too large.
I do not think Timothy's Walmart analogy works here (see below), or in my mind it works in reverse Nike is FF and Walmart APS-C ;o) He himself acknowledges earlier that FF lenses are usually better built. AS for the resolution the vast majority of (good) lenses are designed to have the same resolution whatever the sensor format. I totally agree about using FF on a APS-C body. The opinion stated in the video sounds quite unfounded to me. I would like someone to explain to me what are the problems with using a FF lens on an APS-C camera in terms of the ultimate result, image quality (it sounds in fact that the quality with an FF lens should be better as the APS-C camera is only using the center of the circle of light).
Well. It really depends. I mean you can get parts from grey market as well. And if one is a DIY guy, it's not that difficult to just do the repair by yourself. I bought a a6000 which ended up being broken when it arrived. No worry, I just tore it apart and found out that it was the sensor and shutter both which were not working since someone had let salty water in from the bayonet. I ordered new parts from ebay, washed the existing parts in bathroom sink from the salt residue, put it together and I have had it for 4 years now and it's still kickin'. And not only I have a functioning camera, I also have a fun story to tell. And the knowhow to fix it again.
I've had pretty good luck with after market batteries. I was able to buy 8 batteries for the price of 1 Canon. Though I did notice different brands are better than others. I've had good luck with Wasabi batteries. You can't recharge them as many times as the Canon ones and they show a noticeable decrease before they fail, but cost to benefit for a hobbiest is worth it to me. Especially because I left a Canon battery in my pants when I put them in the wash. I'd rather destroy a $10 battery than an $80 one. I'm just a hobbyist though, I don't have the pro experience to know if the little extra reliability of an OEM battery makes that big of a difference on a paid shoot.
I was taken in by the beautiful Fuji bodies and lenses. I was a Canon user with EOS Pro bodies and L glass. Canon was not in the mirrorless market. I bought an pair of XT-3 bodies, a holy trinity set of glass plus a couple of primes and the 100-400 as well as some Fuji flashes. I just didn’t love it. The images could be amazing but I never felt the Fuji was a seamless extension of myself. I was always fussing with the controls and the wonky menu system. I continued to use my Canon gear too and almost always used it for paid event photography. On a whim, I picked up Canon RP with the RF 24-105 f4L. I knew in an instant I was going to remain a Canon shooter and more specifically, a Canon Mirrorless shooter. Right after the R6 and R5 were released, I did a complete swap of the Fuji gear, Canon DSLRs and almost all of the Canon EF glass keeping just the 200 f2 and the 400 f4 DO II. I couldn’t be happier. However my bank account took a bit of a hit with my sidestep to Fuji.
Great story of matching your technical needs with your emotional sensibilities with your gear. If you play golf you know the feeling you get standing over the ball with a particular brand of club vs another brand. (I get that warm feeling with Taylor Made gear, but others get it with Ping or Titleist or something else. I can't hit a Ping club to save my life!). That feeling of the gear being an extension of yourself is priceless.
Time to build a database of serial numbers, to buy parts from Nikon/Canon or whoever.. Sigma lenses are great. 3rd party? Do you think Nikon/Canon make their own cells? I've never had an issue with Duracell branded "3rd party" battery. Metz and Braun "3rd party" flashes are great. Sigma has great customer service. Not sure what this video was all about guys. I still watched it, thanks for Chelsea 😊
Most folks that buy a low end body don’t buy high end glass . Usually FF glass is phenomenal on apsc bodies because you get the best part of the lens quality within the apsc circle of light but not always. And I now realize on the Micro four thirds with the metabones adapter why we are getting flaring . Thanks for that tip .
I totally agree about using FF on a APS-C body. The opinion stated in the video sounds quite unfounded to me. I would like someone to explain to me what are the problems with using a FF lens on an APS-C camera in terms of image quality (it sounds in fact that the quality should be better as the camera is only using the center of the circle of light.
@@BrunoChalifour if we are talking 50 & 100mm macro lenses, yes they are great. If you want an APS wide, the FF lens will be super wide, catch light sources you don't see in your view finder and flare and its maker sacrificed resolution for image circle. The latter is a bearable compromise on a low resolution FF sensor but not on high res APS. Try it out or dive into DxO mark's PMP ratings. I own no Pentax / k-mount FF wide, that would shine on APS. Even the ZM 21/2.8 doesn't really impress me on APS-H. If you want to enjoy a cheap old 70-300 film zoom, better get an early FF beater to go with it.
Thanks Chelsea & Tony for your channel I discovered recently. Having an EOS 6D (yes) for lanscape and EOS M6 for street, am struggling with the idea to upgrade to EOS R6 II or R5 (way better AF & RAW buffer ) for my style of amateurish landscape travel pics. If changing, hope still using my 70-200 F4L mkI maybe 24-105L Wondering if a loved SIGMA 150mm macro will work. My great 40mm pancake and 100-400 Mii will surely still work. Best - Martin
Quite different in the UK. Nikon UK doesn't care where one has purchased the camera/ lens from. However, I would usually use Fixation (UK) London and Manchester. Excellent value, quick, and of course, they use nikon parts. I would like to purchase everything from a camera store (shop) but Hong Kong is so much cheaper.
Thank you both for what you do, your #1! Thank you for introducing me to KEH, sold an older camera Nikon 1 J5, and the lenses for it and my lenses for my D7000 and got just enough to get 2 used lenses for the D7000. I got the Nikon 18-140 and the 50mm F1/8 so it should be fun to see what I can do with these lenses.
The best camera systems have always been a little out of my price range, and now that I can afford to buy a premium camera, the cost of lenses to go with it pulls it back out of my price range. Having the option to supplement the premium brand glass with third party lenses is an important consideration in choosing which system I will buy into. Not having the option to buy Sigma, Tamron or other third party lenses is a deal breaker. I've been shooting with Canon digital for 20 years. Whatever happened to licensing the right to make aftermarket gear to third parties? That actually enhances the system by making more gear options available. Canon is killing the Goose that L aid the Golden Eggs.
Something you guys sort of missed and it’s who you are as a photographer. If you shoot to make money then you are 100%. If photography is a hobby then 75% is correct. As an example, third party lenses off of Amazon are great for the hobbyists. Of course they have problems but minor ones. Third party flashes are great as an example. But one thing needs repeating, if money isn’t an option then great, buy the latest and greatest. However, if you are the rest of us, look at eBay for your camera. I can’t say enough good about the Canon 70D, which sells for a few hundred dollars. There are a ton of APS-C lenses out there which are affordable. Honestly, I would leave the full frame cameras to the professionals because of the aftermarket cost of the lenses. And, if you are just a hobbyist remember that the best camera is the one you have to shoot with at the moment. So pull out that iPhone and practice with it as much as you can. Don’t be afraid to carry that large camera around to shoot with either. Both can be lots of fun in their own way. Lastly, keep you gear together to make quick changes and don’t forget about battery power, storage space, a grounding cord before taking out you storage card, be aware of your surroundings in Oder not to get robbed while shooting, and most of all, enjoy yourself. If it’s not fun, what’s the point?
I bought a Canon EF 70-200 2.8 IS III from Abes of Maine for way cheaper before I really "got it" with gray market. I ended up selling it to Allen's Camera to trade up for an RF 70-200 2.8 IS. They gave me only like $200 less than I paid for it. I feel hella guilty because it's obviously gray market, and AC had no idea. Whoever buys it from AC will have no idea. I will NEVER buy gray market ever again… It's so bad… The fed needs to force these companies to repair gray market products. Apple has been in hot water numerous times and forced to repair devices. It's just something that's thus far gone under the radar…
Grey market restrictions are the most chicken💩 thing that we allow corporations to do to us. You can literally buy something legitimately while overseas and return home where it can't be repaired. We need right to repair laws.
Yes Chelsea at last someone who understands, I don't need or want video, so I decided to keep my Canon 50d I don't need any more than 15mp, I don't want flip screens either, I don't want magic lantern software either, so I kept my 50d, it's serviced by a private camera restorer, & I had a New shutter movement fitted. so I'm a happy in my photography, with no need for change.
I will defend third party lenses all day long... Recently switch from 5DIII to R6, using EF to RF adater and my three Art Sigmas are even better than they were on 5DIII :-) I constantly keep trting canon lenses and always ending up selling them and buying Sigma. Had Canon 50/1.8 ATM (average) 85/1.8 (very average), 85/1.2 (AF was soo slow) 135 (this one was best out of them) and only lens out of these i'm considering going back to is 135, only because i can have a scecond hand one in half of the price of Sigma Art 135/1.8 :-)
AHHHHhhhhh - Hey guess what I did my homework, AND I use to work at a Camera Store, I had no problem in buying used gear, and I not listening to the both of you, and $22K for a lens where did you get it China?? That is Grounds for Divorce Right Guys? Bye... ps. I SHOOT RAW!!! As that I have not had no problem in downloading, and also I also shoot film, and know how to scan... And also I have Stop WATCHING YOU GUYS FOREVER!!!! Hear that, and see it as I type this BYE - No More of you guys.... BYE... You Guys do not make total sense... Let the Individual in watching this Judge for themselves, and decide it...
i had a sony a7ii but the eye AF never really worked fast enough for action photos, eg competitive ballroom dancing. so i changed to the A6400 as it uses the latest eye AF used on the A9. my images went up to 95% in focus. i wanted an 85mm lens or 105mm 1.8 lens which are not available for APSC so i bought a full frame 85mm Zeiss Batis which gave me awesome results. i know it gives 127mm f2.7 but this works as i dont have any other prime options for APSC Sony
I have a D7100 which is 1.5 crop, as you know. Mostly kit lenses, the 50mm (actually 75mm bc crop factor?), 55-200, 18-55, and 14/2.8 Rokinon. I shoot outdoors, hiking, skiing, camping, climbing, mountain biking, wildlife, etc., etc. Is there more optimal body for that sort of photography? Or is sticking with the 7100 and maybe expanding into higher quality lens quiver the smart play? Is jump to full frame worth the $$$?
Not sure I agree on the Mix and Match so much. For professional photographers, sure, but as an amateur, you are working within a tight budget and there is no "return on investment". This is a hobby and you buy the best you can, when you can. Frankenstein it if you have to. I got my first DSLR in 2004 (Nikon D70) then upgraded in 2011 (D7000) and 2021 (D850). I wanted to move to full frame in 2011, but at the time, the D7000 had video, whilst the Full frame of the time (D700) did not. Yes ... as Tony said, I always said that I would move to full frame, but years later .... 17 years....I finally did. My first few lenses were the Kit lens (18-70) the "Nifty Fifty" 50/1.8 and a trashy 70-300 - why? Because they were cheap and it's all I could afford at the time. As I took photography more seriously, I started to invest, slowly, one lens at a time, in only FX glass. If I had bought DX only glass, then that eventual step up to an FX camera would have been prohibitive. Now I have my D850 along with a 50/1.8, a 24/1.8, a 105/2.8 micro and an 80-200/2.8. It all matches now, but I was playing the long game, and I do not need to throw away or replace any old DX glass. 1 - Could I have sold the old gear? Not really. My wife uses a D5200 and my 12yo daughter borrows the D7000. They have a few DX lenses and I've given them the 18-70. I miss the upgrade funds, but the lenses are not wasted. 2 - Why not go mirrorless in in 2021? I did not even consider it. Tried it a few years ago, and the poor EVF and low battery life were a no go. The new Nikon Mark II line up looks awesome, and maybe I should have waited a year .... but then again, compared to a D850, the Z7MkII + an FTZ adapter would have been cost prohibitive. The D850 and all my glass will still be good for another 10 years :)
I've had some buyers remorse over lenses I've bought. In particular buying a Nikon 55-300mm because it was cheap rather than buying a 80-400mm or 200-500mm or even a Sigma 60-600mm.
I came from two big plastic bags with Nikon D700, 14-24mm and 24-70mm and 70-200mm f.2.8 some years ago to Olympus and Panasonic, and my all time fav is an well used Oly OM-D E-M1 around 150000 so knock on the table hope it works for a while more. 12-40mm PRO f.2.8 most used, second 75mm f.1.8. Selling the rest, almost not used at all... Concerts, portraits, the town I live most popular motives...
That one car you need is a Porsche Cayenne obviously. Upsides it’s a sports car, can haul, can cram in some kids… downsides anything that goes wrong it’s a £1,000 car. A warning light comes on £1,000 new tyres £1,000 door handle £1,000 electric windows issue £1,000 AND when ALL the petrol stations will soon be history (battery grid storage) yo really should have bought a couple of Tesla X / S anyway 👀🎈❤️🤣
I don't use (not get) ANYthing when there's a chance something might not work. I'm then not doing it. End of story. --- I'm using a few FX lenses on a DX body, but not for later upgrades. It's because I wanted the extra reach. There's no lens that would give me the results of the 85/1.8 FX lens on the DX body. I'm fine with 24mp resolution and I can process these photos with any average computer. And I'm not using laptops for decent photo work. No way. Besides, when I'd spill the coffee over the keyboard, it's 30 bucks for a new keyboard, not 2000 for a new laptop.
Have to disagree regarding mismatching APC CAMERA with FULL FRAME lenses. I am eternally grateful that the salesman recommended full frame lenses when I bought my 80D in 2016. They worked fabulously on that body and I would argue better than my friend with apc lenses. Best part is I am still shooting them on my A7R4 (with sigma mc-11)and my R5 (with the ef-rf adapter). If I took your advice in this video I would have had to rebuy all my best lenses.
Grey market lenses and cameras are not usually a couple hundred dollars less expensive, the difference in price can be upwards of $1000+ depending on what you're buying. Now, a good example on this, is the Canon dealership in my country. Their EF glass and body prices are terrible and well above MSRP anywhere else in the world (don't let me even start talking about RF glass and bodies)! So when I used to shoot with Canon, all my gear (L lenses, accessories, and pro bodies) were 100% grey market and I saved easily more than $10,000 in the gear acquisition process. The gear remained fantastic until the day I sold it after about 10 years and I didn't lose much in terms of resale value because I didn't buy it for crazy money either. The only mistake I think I made purchasing a camera was before my DSLR days, it was actually a point and shoot Nikon Coolpix P50. I only bought it because of the wide angle lens it had, but the picture quality, the high ISO performance, the processor, the optical zoom, and even the shutter button (at a later stage) where a terrible experience compared to a Sony Cyber Shot DSC-W150 that I had around the same time. I ended up giving it to my 8 years old niece so she can learn how to compose shots with it. Thankfully, I did my home work well before all serious gear purchases that I made and didn't have a single regret.
I love photographing wildlife but I only have the old EF 100-400mm Mark I. I am looking to upgrade but I can’t afford the RF 100-500mm. I have the EOS R6. What lens would you buy out of the new RF 100-400mm, the RF600mm or the RF800mm? Or something else? Thanks in advance for any advice given.
Buying GOOD gear? B&H, Adorama, KEH. I learned by dealing with another company, long story, but PayPal shot it down! They knew something I didn't know, and I found out later, I wasn't saving a lot of money, I was being taken to the cleaners! B&H, Adorama, KEH. Honest companies! Don't be such a cheap skate!!
That is true. I have had on two occasions err message and camera shut down with my EOS R using Sigma A35mm f1.4 and lost a video file for a wedding shoot. Sad!!!
8:50 - maybe I'm just lucky but EVERY Wasabi Power battery I have every purchased (mainly Nikon but also for my Olympus) has outperformed the branded equivalent - but then again they are about 1/2 to 2/3rds the price not 1/5th like some really cheap copies. - Edit : I bought some batteries along with my D7100 in 2014 - only my 3rd party batteries still work.
One more idea relates to the Theory of Dust Collection: essentially what that means is, if you purchase photo equipment but it sits idle for very long periods of time (gathering dust), then you have purchased 'bad gear'. In other words, any gear is a bad buy unless it is actually going to be used. THAT is where the value is measured. Rest assured, there is a lot of equipment that gets purchased with a lot of emotion, and that emotion drains away quickly. Not unlike the associated wallet.
I bought a used Hasselblad X1D a couple of years ago. I started with the 45P as it is in my "affordable" price range. I've added an HC 50-110, CF 500, and as of today a CF 140-280 all used off of EBay. We live next to a park and I have wanted to be able to blow up wildlife pics and see the details of animals that walk by our house. I had doubts about using 34 year old lenses designed for 6x6 film cameras or a 20 year old lens designed for 6x4.5 film cameras with a modern 44x33 mm medium format digital sensor and its electronic shutter. Happily it works and many of the pics have turned out great! Should we call this "Hasselblad on a Budget"? Hey, that may make a good video!
Tell me if I am wrong, but I am looking for a first DSLR strictly for landscape, streetscape and nightscape photography. That's it. I will NEVER use it now, or in the future, for video. Ever. What I am finding that really drives the prices on DSLRs is video capabilities. That's how they're marketed. That's what you pay for. I don't want a digital camera for that, I want to make art. So... what do you recommend for my specific needs? Right now I am leaning towards just going back to film because I don't want to pay $$$$$ for a camera made for vlogging that also shoots pictures.
On my first lens purchase, I bought a 5-pin Tamron lens for a D3300, had no idea I needed the 8-pin model in order to have autofocus, nothing I read made that clear, even Tamron's lens compatibility guide. Also, the lens I did get, works 100% fine, but I cringe when I look at the elements and there is dust inside the lens, but doesn't effect image quality, but that's just me. Another thing, I bought my Nikon from a individual, not a company that can repair it with some type of warranty. I did get my moneys worth with an included $200 35mm 1.8 lens, thrown in the deal. But.
I have EOS 80D and I use both EF and EF-s lenses. No matter what, noise is a big drawback to my eye... How "sufficient" or not is EOS RP/6D mkii? Will this give me much more image quality or I should go for EOS R? This is mainly portrait-landscape photography.
I use third-party batterys for a long time with my Sony A6600. Of course they have only around 80% of the capacity. But they work for a long time and 2 batterys costs a third of one original battery. And they put a charger on top of the package which works very reliable.
Yes, I would prefer to have a half-dozen 3rd party batteries that have 50% capacity than two OEM batteries. It's also why I buy cheap MicroCenter SD cards -- I'm not shooting the Super Bowl from the end zone with a 30 fps camera, so they suit me just fine. Again, every photographer has different needs and priorities, and purchase decisions should be based on those. If you are a loyal watcher of T and C, you know that their advice varies over time (kind of like Fauci's advice) 😊
Got a used X100F off eBay for a recent trip, camera died 2 weeks into it. Used my phone for the rest of the trip and didn't miss the camera at all - will probably never take a camera with me on non-photography trips again.
My Nikon D5300 with 35 prime lens 18-55 kit lens and my 70-200 lens let me make every picture I want and need. It’s my hobby, not professional use. And I use my IPhone most of the time. Photography is about making nice photographs.
I have Canon R5. I have had good luck with EF L glass adapted. I still have 5D IV as a backup body.The RF28-70 is so expensive but I love it for events. I also use the RF 600 and 800. I was so surprised at how good it is for perched Birds.
Know what you mean about 3rd party lenses, many many years ago I had a Rollie SL35E with a Tamron 17mm full frame fisheye that delivered stunning results on ilfochrome 200 (later used Fuji as I couldn't get the ilfochrome) so when I purchased my Nikon D7200 a while ago I bought a Tamron 10-24mm lens as I had good results from a previous Tamron lens. The results though were ok, not great, lacking in saturation so, I bought a Nikkor 10-24mm lens and the difference was marked, better colours, better saturation, all told a much better lens so even with previous good experience you cannot always rely on consistent results from the same manufacturer.
Totally agree regarding forums. I bought a pair of Leica Ultravid binoculars off eBay which turned out to be faulty. Thanks to wrong advice about Leica offering lifetime guarantees, I ended up sending them to Leica. Leica refused to repair them FOC, wanted to charge me 60.00 GBP for a refused estimate then the seller refused to take them back. I would have been out-of pocket had I refused the estimate to the tune of 75.00 GBP (inc postage to Leica in Portugal) ...the repair and service cost me 315.00 GBP. They came back upgraded to new spec and effectively 'as new' condition. So it wasn't quite so bad, they are amazing quality and used often. But if you get wrong advice off forums? Tough !
I really don't understand how you can expect warranty on used gear bought on, Idk, Craigslist or what ever you have in the states? If we buy used gear over here we can simply forget everything spelled warranty. Doesn't mean it dumb to buy used gear from other than dealers though. You just have to weigh in eventual costs of repairs, just as you would if you buy a pre owned house you live in.
So about that don’t use full frame lenses on crop sensor bodies, are you really saying that I will get better results using the $130 70-300 DX Nikon lens, than using a 200-500 5.6 on for example a D500? Really?
Don't use full-frame lenses on APS-C cameras? Give me a break. Yes don't use a APS-C lens on a full frame camera, but I guess I need to see your tests - this seems like a bizarre statement to me. I own both type of bodies and not a problem to me.
Well if you’re going to spend $2000 you should not be “looking for a bargain”, because you are really making an investment there. eBay is good to buy the odd $89 vintage lens, but if you are going to spend $3000 my advice to you is… go to a proper brick and mortar store, get a proper warranty and even buy a service plan. This applies not just to camera gear, but everything else. Saving $50-100 on a $2000 purchase is not worth it if you’re already spending such a large amount anyway. Don’t even get me started with those situations where you find “a bargain”. If a new lens is $1400 and you find someone selling it for $600 if you don’t suspect something is terribly wrong with that lens, then you are incredibly naive. Then there’s old models. If you are buying a 1970’s Minolta lens “in mint condition”, you are basically buying a lens that is over 50 years old. The only way that thing is in “mint condition” is that it was hermetically sealed and buried in a time capsule. It’s going to have problems… there are no bargains. As Kissinger said “there are no free lunches”! Caveat emptor as the Romans would say… buyer be ware!!!!
I dont know, for APSC, off name brand batteries are SIGNIFICANTLY CHEAPER, I bring 6 or so 3rd party much cheaper batteries with me in a small container, Im not a pro photographer but I do hikes and long shoots shooting hundreds to thousands of photos and video and on my T7i, I never ran through those batteries mostly only have to recharge 2-4 (I use a battery pack with 2). Even if they dont work as well they're not so bad that its not worth it. It's totally worth it given the absurd costs of the name brand battery. I also have 1 canon battery I dont notice much difference honestly
7-2022 I upgraded to a Canon 5D Mark iii from a Mark II. The auto focus is way better on the Mark iii compared to the Mark II. I mainly shoot still life flowers and foliage. I love the Mark iii uses SD cards. So I can insert the SD card right in my iMac and not need a CF card reader as I needed for my Mark II. I already had a bunch of EF Mount Canon glass I used with my Mark II, so the upgrade switch to the Mark iii was all compatible with my EF Mount glass. I buy 99% of my camera lenses used. And my Mark II and Mark iii bodies I bought used.
I just today had a good experience from eBay. A seller had two Canon 580EX flashes up for sale saying each needed some repair (yeah, I know but I wanted another flash I was already familiar with.) We've got a guy nearby who is a whiz with Canon products so I made an offer of $20.00 for both. They arrived today and one was a corrosion mess in the battery compartment. No wonder it wouldn't power up! A few minutes with some white vinegar and silicone grease and it powered up just fine. The other had a problem with the flash head. It would "tilt" but not "pan." Huh? He apparently hadn't bothered to read the manual. On the 550EX there are two separate buttons for those head movements. On the 580EX just one. Push that button and it tilts and pans just fine. I'm sure there's a lesson here but I'm not going to tell him. 😇
Informative video. If there is one thing I kind of disagree with is buying full frame lenses for APS-C body. Some good quality, decently priced full frame lenses (especially primes) are quite good on APS-C body because of the maximum corner sharpness and less amount of vignetting.
Hi guys, Lots of great points made, ref budget and choices I shoot landscapes and assorted other subjects, very meagre budget so I have an original Sony A7r with a Ziess 24-70 f4 and an olympus pen ep5 with 14-42 , total spend £1200 gbp
I am surprised you did not recommend renting the camera and or lens you decided on before buying, for a few hundred bucks on very expensive gear you can get it and try it for 3days to a week and see if it is really what you want. I have done that on 2 of the lenses I bought after the kit lens-- Worked well for me.
I bought a Canon 5DsR. Don't get me wrong the camera is insane, but I just didn't need any of the features and I ended up selling it and sticking with my 6D. I mostly shoot handheld macro and it was really difficult to avoid motion blur on the 50mp. The shots I nailed had detail down to the pixel but being a pixel peeper I couldn't help but look at every shot closely, even if I didn't need to crop and reject what would probably be an otherwise good photo when scaled. Also, when shooting on 50mp I tend to get lazy and not thing about framing, step back a bit and think "I'll come up with a crop in post". On the 6D's 20mp it only has about 30% max crop before 4K so the shots matter a little more.
The one thing you cannot protect yourself from is the “big lie”. I bought a Tamron lens that was grey market. The price on Amazon was very good, and I was suspicious. I contacted the seller and they assured me that it was a USA market lens. Luckily, it was an email and I had proof of the lie. Amazon backed me up and I returned it, but it still cost me postage, insurance and other costs amounting to about $60.00. The price was $960.00 plus tax, so it was still worth it.
