Stop Disrespecting Fantasy! 

To everyone saying "Tolkien did not like allegory!" Look up the full quote! Here it is: “I cordially dislike allegory in all its manifestations, and always have done so since I grew old and wary enough to detect its presence. I much prefer history - true or feigned- with its varied applicability to the thought and experience of readers. I think that many confuse applicability with allegory, but the one resides in the freedom of the reader, and the other in the purposed domination of the author.” He is drawing a very fine line, but yes, his works do reflect his real-life experiences and he is okay with you applying it to your own as well. He took great effort to make that the case. He just did not want direct specific allegory within his works.

Teachers: "Keep in mind we will not be accepting Game of Thrones as a related text for this assignment. Keep the magic out of it kids." Students: "You've been making us study Macbeth for months and it has literal magical witches in it." *angry face*

“All fiction is fantasy.” -Neil Gaiman. Beyond a small pocket of historically accurate stories this is pretty true...🤷🏼‍♀️

quoting Ursula Le Guin: “Those who dislike fantasy are very often equally bored or repelled by science. They don’t like either hobbits, or quasars; they don’t feel at home with them; they don’t want complexities, remoteness. If there is any such connection, I’ll bet that it is basically an aesthetic one.” "Fantasy is not antirational, but pararational; not realistic but surrealistic, a heightening of reality. In Freud's terminology, it employs primary not secondary process thinking. It employs archetypes which, as Jung warned us, are dangerous things. Fantasy is nearer to poetry, to mysticism, and to insanity than naturalistic fiction is. It is a wilderness, and those who go there should not feel too safe" “Fantasy is escapist, and that is its glory. If a soldier is imprisoned by the enemy, don’t we consider it his duty to escape?The moneylenders, the knownothings, the authoritarians have us all in prison. If we value the freedom of mind and soul, if we’re partisans of liberty, then it’s our plain duty to escape, and to take as many people with us as we can!” ~Ursula K. LeGuin, paraphrasing J.R.R. Tolkien "People who deny the existence of dragons are often eaten by dragons. From within".

"Fantasy is hardly an escape from reality. It is a way of understanding it." Lloyd Alexander

Anyone that thinks fantasy isn't worth studying must never have heard of The Illiad, The Odyssey, or Beowulf.

I wrote my thesis on this. I hate the degrading of the fantasy genre. It is so uncalled for

I know you don't like C.S. Lewis, but one of my favorite quotes of all time is, "When I was ten, I read fairy tales in secret and would have been ashamed if I had been found doing so. Now that I am fifty I read them openly. When I became a man I put away childish things, including the fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown up.” What he was talking about when he said this was about adults who say you have to be something or act a certain way to be an adult are not actually being adults themselves. The context of this quote is even more beautiful and thought provoking. He grew up in a strict religious household where verses from the bible were quoted to him such as, "When I was a child, I spoke as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things." (KJV)." To grow up he had to give up his love of fantasy. This experience turned him away from his faith until people like Tolkien who loved fantasy and imagination came into his life and showed him that loving something was just a greater reflection of the love his faith brought.

C.S. Lewis said it best: “When I was ten, I read fairy tales in secret and would have been ashamed if I had been found doing so. Now that I am fifty, I read them openly. When I became a man I put away childish things, including the fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown up.” Folks like Rowling, Goodkind, & others need to grow up if y’ask me.

I go to a university where there is an entire class on Tolkien

In the words of Brandon Sanderson on fantasy in literature... "Science Fiction and Fantasy can do everything any other genre can do. You will find science fiction and fantasy with the literary styling of great classic literatures. You read Ursala Le Guin, or you read Gene Wolfe. You read some of these people who are known for their literary styling. You'll find a romance in SFF that can be every bit as powerful as the best romantic fiction. You'll find mystery, you'll find adventure These genres are not bounded by what they can contain, in fact they are the only genres that are not bounded by what they contain. The reason I write, read and love SFF is because it's the genre where you can do all of this stuff. You can be literary, you can have action adventure, you can do all of these things, plus you can have dragons. So why not? 'Why not?' is my opinion. Why not write the genre where you can include anything that you want to, where you can be whatever you want to be."

I was literally just reading an interview Terry Pratchett did talking about why he writes fantasy and my favourite part, when explaining that Moby Dick is essentially a fantasy too, was this quote - 'Fantasy is the plasma in which other genres swim'. Also, you can almost feel his irritation coming off the page (screen) when the interviewer asks him why, since he's good enough to write whatever he wants, he writes fantasy. : )

I once had a *creative writing* teacher push back on me submitting assignments with fantasy elements. She did *everything she could* to try and dissuade me from writing fantasy, because it's not "real literature". So for one assignment, I did as she asked, writing two short stories, one a literary fiction and the other a fantasy. The literary fiction got an A from her, and a D from my in-class writing group, whereas my fantasy got a C from her and an A from the group. She was *flummoxed* because she couldn't wrap her head around my writing group raving over the fantasy short and then talking about how bored the literary fiction made them, and how obvious it was in the writing that I was just getting it out because I had to. I used it as proof to threaten to go to the Dean about her trying to fail me if she didn't knock it off with grading anything fantastical lower (mine and others) simply for the fact that they were fantastic. She *literally* tried to get me to "literary-ify" a short story about a mage in hiding in a world where magic is persecuted befriending the anti-magic paladin who finds her, eventually ending in him letting her escape... into a story about a Jewish person in WW2 befriending a Nazi who lets the Jewish person go when they find out. Because that would make it more "realistic" and "better, because people would connect with it more". I told her, paraphrasing and without the swears, to "go fuck yourself. I had family in the camps. I'm not doing that."

Sooo... They're saying Shakespeare doesn't have literary value? He did after all write fantasy...

Rando: Fantasy is not real literature Me: *Throws LotR at their head*

The Iliad, the Odyssey, Shahnameh, Beowulf, Dr. Faustus, the Faerie Queene, Sir Gawain and the Green Knight, all of the Arthurian literature for that matter, A Midsummer Night's Dream, Hamlet, Macbeth, Rime of the Ancient Mariner, etc, etc, this list can go on forever. The point is, literature is almost entirely founded on fantasy, and if there are "academics" who don't get that, they should probably have their degrees reexamined because they clearly have failed to study all of the major works required for their field.

I feel the Scorsese comment is a bit of a different situation. Scorsese wasn't so much criticizing the MCU movies for having magic in them as he was for them focusing too much on action spectacle and visual FX, and commenting that the movie industry is becoming saturated with only that genre while smaller movies struggle to get made.

Daniel Got a Green Screen: The Movie

When I studied literature in university, we pretended the entire fantasy genre didn't exist for 4 years straight

I'm from Norway. I had a teacher in Nordic language and literature who actually talked about A Song of Ice and Fire and The Hobbit when he discussed old Norse poems. He also told us about a guy who took his oral exam on A Game of Thrones and got an A. There was also a national exam a few years back where students had to compare a translation of the first chapter of A Game of Thrones and «Skjelettet» ("The Skeleton"), a legend (or sagn) from the 19th century. I don’t really feel that Fantasy is so stigmatized here. Maybe it's because we love fairytales and ancient folklore and see the genre as a continuation of that cultural heritage ... or maybe teachers just want to engage teenagers lol.

"Fantasy is looked down upon" Yes, that's correct, but have you seen Romance 😆

Also....a thing being "For Kids" doesn't make bad, kids deserve well written fiction too!

Greek mythos is respected. Why not fantasy?? Great points in this video.

"I'm not a fantasy writer," the man cackled as he furiously crafted his fictional world for his fictional characters with extraordinary abilities.

I had a nice discussion about books and literature with an older customer of mine and she asked me "What are your favorite kind of books". And I told her in a massive fan of the fantasy genre, she kind of scoffed at me and asked "isn't that for kids"? After I went on and on about complex themes and psychology in my favorite works like Berserk, Hellboy, Lord of the Rings, blah blah blah, she asked me to borrow some and now she's a massive fan and continues to defend the genre. Luckily for me all of my English teachers have loved fantasy and looked at it through an academic lens.

“On Fairy Stories” is an essay by Tolkien that explains the deeper reasons for writing adult fantasy

"HEY, PRINCE OF THORNS!, ARE YOU F****NG FOR CHILDS?" might be my favorite part xD

“Fellating himself in the forest of his own ego...” bless you for saying these words

Didn't Stephen King outright say he was a Fantasy author? That even his HORROR books have fantasy elements? And that he's absolutely confused on why people can't group those two elements together? Or understand why people don't understand that you can't have horror without fantasy? I may not like his book, or certain themes he likes to write, but i do respect him as an author. Mostly because he knows WHAT he's writting, and where it stems from.

You know literary crowd hates fantasy when they have to invent the term "magical realism" to distance authors from fantasy.

I swear, every time Rowling has said anything the last few years I lose a bit more respect for her. It sucks, but holy crap is she disconnected from the real world.

I'm pretty sure my old supervisor would have frowned if I began citing fantasy literature to support my academic work. But then again, as a molecular biologist I wouldn't blame her.

Top Box Office Movies All-Time : 1. Avengers: Endgame 2. Avatar 4. The Force Awakens 5. Avengers: Infinity War Top Movie Series All-Time : 1. MCU 2. Star Wars 3. Harry Potter 5. Lord of the Rings Top 10 Most Pirated TV shows by year : 2019 - 8 Fantasies 2018 - 8 Fantasies 2017 - 6 Fantasies 2016 - 7 Fantasies 2015 - 6 Fantasies Of the 10 best selling books of all time, 8 of them are fantasy. Top 20 streamed shows in 2019, 11 are fantasy. 10 highest selling comic series of all-time, 7 of them are Fantasy. I don't know why anyone would look down at Fantasy, it is straight bank.

I HATE talking to someone about what i read and hearing a change in tone when i mention *FaNTaSy* A genre that has genuinely opened my eyes and made me a more thoughtful person.

"When you wrote a book about f*ckin' wizards!" I lost it at that😂

don't care about them disrespecting fantasy, as long as Albert Einstein said "Imagination is more important than knowledge. Knowledge is limited. Imagination encircles the world"

Terry Goodkind is such an insufferable narcissist, with zero self-awareness. It'd be hilarious if it wasn't so sad.

This just in, in fantasy news. Im renaming my channel to "The Greene Screene Experience." Thank you, that is all.

Academics look down on fantasy and yet two of the historical masters of fantasy were professor at Oxford, Tolkien and Lewis. The same can be said about science fiction, a lot of people don’t consider it real literature either.

I think fantasy is absolutely amazing. Being a fantasy author is one of the most amazing thing ever. Maps. Creatures. Art. Characters. Cities. I can't even describe how much fun it is and how proud I am to be a young fantasy author

RU-vidrs: Do jumpcuts Daniel: *hold my greenscreen*

The dark tower,lord of the rings,a song of ice and fire,the witcher etc. How are any of these for children

Thank goodness not all English professors think this way! The head of department at the University I went to specialised in Children's fiction and published extensive research on Harry Potter and Children's fantasy literature. A friend of mine wrote her dissertation with his help, titled something like: "Death and Grief in the World of Harry Potter - a Magical Approach to Understand the Unthinkable". He was eccentric and very old fashioned, but you could discuss Tolkien with him for ages. :)

I don't write fantasy, I write stories that have elements of romance, history, adventure, mystery, and philosopy. So basically describing 90% of the fantasy stories I know.

Dude someone in the plane seat next to me saw I was reading a fantasy novel, told me I shouldn’t be reading it, I should read a “real” book, fantasy rots your brain... I wanted to do a lot more than just awkwardly laugh, like give him a good slap So ignorant!

I love it when Daniel goes on a rant 😂

This green screen was the best investment ever made on this channel. Let that rage out man. I'm tired of people shitting on the fantasy genre. It's honestly the best of all, you can basically write any genre you want AND ADD DRAGONS on top of that. Fantasy is just a tool to elevate your story, it does not affect the 'literary value' of your work is.

My father: "Fantasy isn't high literature" Also my father: *Goethe's Faust is a masterpiece* You mean the one where they get a youth potion from a witch, have a magical dream sequence riddled with orgies and one of the characters is a devil-figure?

I honestly didn't know the fantasy genre was so frowned upon. I've been reading it for sometime and no one has ever told me they dissaprove of fantasy or that it is for children. I guess I have been spared from these blasphamies🤣

"The only thing fantasy does is give you more tools." Preach, Daniel! Preach!

I'm just casually laying in bed, tryna watch some book reviews and THIS comes up in my queue. I feel like I want to go burn something to the ground. As a die-hard lover of fantasy who has been ridiculed her whole life for loving the genre, this video made me remember how hard I'm willing to defend fantasy. My boyfriend recently said he wants to read the "classics" to get a good background in literature but refuses to acknowledge fantasy at all whatsoever. This is the biggest fight we've ever gotten in.

"It's got elves so it's STUPID!" That moment right there made me subscribe. That was legit hilarious

I really like all those "deep, complex, human, etc" stuff in stories I read, just prefer them in new worlds with magic; dragons preferred but not required.

"Fantasy can't be sophisticated." JRR Tolkien, PROFESSOR at OXFORD, The Man who basically started it ALL. That is all that need be said.

I strongly support these rant style videos. You hit on some really important points. As a high school teacher of history and English students often ask me what I read or what they should read and I usually recommend LOTR or Mistborn for them. Sadly, many students look shocked and respond "my parents wouldn't want me to wast my study time with those kinds of books." This truly infuriates me cause even in schools we overlook the massive impact fantasy can have on someone as a developing reader and person. Fantasy needs to be studying just as in-depth as we study Twain or Fitzgerald.

Thank you, Daniel. That attitude among college English departments is one reason I was not an English major.

As a fantasy author and lover, I say to you: THANK YOU!

It's actually insane how people look down on fantasy as childish, when some of the most well known works of literature would qualify as fantasy. Look at the Iliad, the Odyssey, the Poetic Edda for norse mythology and so on. Arthurian literature, that's all fantasy. It's especially insane when Tolkien wrote several adult fantasy stories in middle earth, and George R. R. Martin's ASOIAF novels are certainly not for kids so yeah I don't know how you can say all of fantasy is childish. Like what's the difference between quoting the Iliad and quoting the Silmarillion in class? Both are works of literature.

Wow.. to hear you praise Lotr for something other than “being the father of fantasy” or something like that was amazing. Herring you actually talk about it’s story elements and historical ties other than it being an influential series was great. Great video! PS I hope to see you at JordanCon

I have no interest writing stories that don't have a fantasy element to it. 25% of the time, I enjoy non fantasy stories. Creating is a form of an escape. For me, I need that fantasy element, whether a strong one or a mild one, to enjoy the journey of writing that story. Great video =)

Daniel is me when I get green screen for my birthday.

Completely agree with you! I wrote my thesis for college on Tolkien, Martin and Norse mythology and was lucky enough to have a thesis supervisor that was incredibly supportive so hopefully academic attitudes are changing.

"Fantasy isn't real literature!" Then I guess we have to discount the works of Shakespeare (witches, ghosts, and fairies), Charles Dickens (Ghost and border-line time travel), Edgar Allan Poe (all sorts of fantastical spooky shit), Oscar Wilde (a cursed mirror), Mark Twain (time travel and King Arthur stuff), and many, many others...

"Often the magical elements in my books are standing in for elements of the real world, the small and magical-in-their-own-right sorts of things that we take for granted and no longer pay attention to, like the bonds of friendship that entwine our own lives with those of other people and places." - Charles De Lint

I usually never react to video's, but today I had to say something: EXACTLY! You are saying everything I am fighting for here. I am a Belgian translator and would love to translate fantasy books. During my studies as a "literary translator" we could 'not possibly translate fantasy, because that is in no way, shape or form Literature', which is absolutely ridiculous. And like you said, there are authors out there who write fantasy, but then want to be marketed as high literature, so NOWHERE will you find the word 'fantasy' in the describing of this author. What you will find is for example "magical surrealism", and what do you know, it had "magic" right there in the description, but it is not seen as "fantasy" because that could not possibly be Literature. So I have made it my goal now to get a fantasy-translation published in a prestige translation magazine, just to prove my point! Sorry for my rant just re-iterating what you said, I just believe you are correct, sir!

It took me too long to spot dan on mount doom at the start im actually ashamed. But serious note, isnt everything written outside of none fiction just a degree of fantasy? Some woman sitting with a laptop writing about two lovers one of which with an inoperable form of cancer and another woman sat at a computer writing about dragons fucking shit up are pulling from made up worlds with varying relations to reality. Dunno seems like a mute point when everything written in fiction is a writers fantasy put onto a page.

Martin Scorsese wasn't criticizing fantasy when he made those comments about the MCU. He was criticizing the design-by-committee style of filmmaking and storytelling that films like those within the MCU harbor. They ARE amusement park rides. They DO lack the deft touch of an artist pouring their heart and soul into a work that means something, to them at least. It being fantasy or science fiction or a fucking superhero movie didn't inherently have anything to do with it.

"...when you wrote about bleeping wizards..." The best reaction and understatement to her attitude.

"PRINCE OF THORNS!! ARE YOU FOR F*CKING KIDS?!" Sir, i haven't stopped laughing and it's been 15 minutes

Every genre has authors in it that cheapen the entire genre. And every genre has the capacity for triumphant truth-telling.

I'm actually glad Goodkind "doesn't write fantasy", because it's too good for him 🤗

I really appreciated one of my college professors for pushing us to read fantasy in his classroom. It was Brit lit and we dissected and discussed early epics like beowulf to modern fantasy like HP 5.

Man I'm sorry you had a prof like that. I have used tons of fantasy works in my classes, and students often get a kick out of it.

Great rant. And the best part is when you finally said that the The Lord of the Rings is better than the Wheel of Time.

Great rant :) I think the reason I love fantasy so much is *because* it has so much to say about humanity. Somehow contemporary issues never hit the issues as hard in my experience.

I actually took a University class called Major Authors : Tolkien. Thank you to

George RR Martin convinced the world that fantasy is THE ultimate genre.

03:05 Daniel: wants to strongly state how valuable fantasy genre is. Also Daniel: simultaneously uses a clearly sexual gif as background

Love this video, the only people who dismiss Fantasy are people who haven’t actually read or seen many fantasy stories or egomaniacs like Rowling and Goodkind. On the topic of Martin Scorsese though, he only meant that the main appeal in the current marvel movies is much more driven by action than anything else, to be fair to him they are essentially made to sell toys. He didn’t say there was something wrong with those types of films, just that when compared to other eras in film history those movies seem to be marketed so heavily and take up so much time in the box office that it’s getting increasingly hard for movies that aren’t like that to succeed. He also spoke on the fact that nowadays it has become much harder to get a film greenlit if it isn’t based on an already established brand or property. I know you probably didn’t know the full context of his critique but as a cinephile it does bother me that for years now people have been mischaracterizing what he said, especially because he’s esentially saying that it’s a problem that a massive billion dollar company is deliberately using it’s plataform to supress other types of cinema.

Horror-loving metal-head, avid gamer and comics nerd. There are few things I love that haven't been sneered at, condescended to, or demonized in my 36 years. For all that, though, it's getting better. I can wear an Iron Maiden shirt or read a King novel in public without people accusing me of either worshiping or inadvertently aiding the anti-Christ (and that was in a major city!) I can wear black and talk about video games without people assuming I'm going to kill people, play D&D without people thinking I'll die a virgin, and use "Bamf!" as a verb knowing people will understand. Yes, genre fans still get some disrespect, and we need to work on that, but we should also be grateful. This is the best ever time to be a geek. Also, we need to reflect on our geek culture and make it more inclusive and inviting.We are not far removed from Gamergate, flame wars about Michael B. Jordan as Johnny Storm, or the "Batwoman can't get married to a woman" bs. We still kvetch about Mary Sue Rey while saying that Conan (one of THE best/worst examples of the trope) deserves more respect. We are only starting to get respect, but we are also only starting to show it. If we want better, we need to also be better while we work for better.

I love this so much. And it's so true. Anytime I try to talk about the themes in Terry Pratchett's works in a serious conversation people roll their eyes and tune out. Genre has nothing to do with deeper meanings and themes in works of literature.

First viewing - here for the rant. Second viewing - here for the rant and follow the memes. Third viewing - here for the meme lore.

Man. You need more videos in this style. I know you said that it doesn't match the tone but I don't think it matters. The manner everything is presented in is so entertaining and seeing you move and stance up for certain things is excellent. Also incredible rant I agree wholeheartedly. You magnificent bastard.

in the german speaking world, Goethes "Faust" ist considered essential reading for everyone, one of if not the most respected piece of german literature...and that story has angels and demons, witches and magic, people turning into animals and potions that make you look younger...sounds like fantasy to me...

This video was so so needed. It’s honestly a miracle if I can get through a single semester without one of my literature professor bashing fantasy 🤦🏼‍♀️

The death of my respect for JK Rowling's is something that I will mourn.

I'm so glad that when I went to college, 2001-2005 at University of Vermont, I got to take a Sci-fi and Fantasy literature class (led me to Phillip Pullman, thank GOD for that), a Gothic Novel class, and a whole class on the films of Stephen King. I think those classes are still there, and they were AMAZING.

When I told my "friend" I wanted to become a fantasy writer....let's just say that it took a really long time and a lot of soliloquizing to stop feeling the shame his response put in me... That was the first time I understood that fantasy as a genre was not as respected as I'd thought...

Taken straight out of my hearth and mouth, same struggle at the university level here :) this sort of inferiority complex that my grumpy lecturers have against fantasy because "It is not academic" well FU :D

The 4:16 mark - so true, and so largely overlooked. The point you make here is why I don’t think you can properly adapt TLotR *without* the Scouring of the Shire: it is the heart of the book, the thematic climax of the book.

If anything the idea that a teacher would suggest that fantasy isn’t a legitimate thing to write about is a personal bias and should not be put on a student as part of their education

I as longtime anime fan, I'm quite used to meeting those kinds of attitudes. "It's cartoons, it's for kids." 🤦‍♀️🤷‍♀️

I'm writing fantasy. And *proud of it.*

I remember a conversation on the guardian site with a guy who claimed that Gormenghast wasn't a fantasy novel Why? Because it's good.

Great video! I have to admit that I was a culprit once. In middle school used to make fun (in a friendly way! I´m no bully) of my friend for loving rock music, reading fantasy and being into manga. Yet here I am a hardcore fan of both rock and fantasy and getting started on my manga journey. I was 15 years old, I didn´t know any better 😅

I agree with you. One of the reasons I love fantasy is because of the subjects they tackle. Racism in Harry Potter, war in Wheel of Time and Lord of the Rings, class divides in Mistborn, there is so much to dig into

"Good...good...Let the rage flow through you. Strike down those naysayers with all your power!"

I'm glad you talked about how fantasy is viewed in academic circles. I used to work in an academic library and fantasy is shat on all the time. I always got so excited when I would look at required textbooks behind our desk, and see fantasy books listed for women and gender studies, or psychology, or sociology because there's so much in those stories that get ignored.

"No, I can't take that seriously, because there is a hammer that's M A G I C"

There's been a huge exhibition about Tolkien in the biggest French library in Paris (bibliothèque François Mitterrand), one had to book tickets well in advance because they were so many people. The fact itself that they did that exhibition is great but still better that so many people came to see it! I think it shows that fantasy is becoming a better respected genre.