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@broughy1322 What about changing the checkpoints instead? Then you could cycle between 1-4 different gfred tracks (not just reversals or variations like derfg or snowfred) for every season and keep the leaderboards for each track accordingly. It would help change things up a bit for both racers and viewers as I can tell that gfred as it stands has been optimised to its utmost and that's why you have conflicts over such insignificant time differences and it would be a return to racers trying to find better lines again or more shenanigans like what most viewers enjoy watching. I've been watching for a while so I thought I'd give my two cents.
Honestly as a long time viewer of the channel and the Gfred series (Mostly on a older RU-vid account) in my opinion from a viewers perspective the hyper competitiveness and everything that comes along with it take away a great deal of the fun in watching them. After a day of work I'll much rather relax and watch a cannonball or a random race of sorts now, Gfred used to be my #1 favorite thing to watch for years. People need to remember you're not in a 25K+ USD tournament over 1st place. It is GTA racing for fun.
If someone is so upset that another player ruins their "perfect" run, it's part of racing. Go for the solo world record or something. Your rage is not Broughy's problem.
I sometimes watch another ultra competitive gfred you tuber, no name, no shame, but it is starting to feel like bullying of anyone who might slow him down by a second or two. Yet they expects the freedom to do it to others.
I think it's some people getting caught up in the competitiveness of it all and needing a "reality check" of sorts. I don't think any of the community would stand for bullying. Hopefully now what has been said has been said everyone can go back to having an enjoyable time during the race.
I think I know who you mean. The way Broughy phrased it at 5:40 I immediately thought of him and one of his latest Gfred videos, in which he was on for a stream record and got hit three times by other players, none of which being his fault. Thus, I totally understand his frustration, but it's the going for records, prefecting runs, shaving off tenths of seconds that contradicts the original spirit in which Gfred was created. So, I totally get Broughy's point of view, but then again, a race in its essence is always competitive, so you cannot blame people for treating it that way. Difficult issue.
Yeah he needs to relax a bit more, it's fine to be competitive. But the whole "waah my record" is getting a bit much considering he tends to place pretty high regardless.
100% agree with your sentiments, Broughy. No criticism of any individual, it’s just that people have lost sight that Gfred is meant to be light-hearted where crazy stuff is expected and (within the rules) encouraged. It should be taken as seriously as a random race.
I remember seeing someone venting some anger via in-game chat after the last 8th Gear GFRED, essentially they made it sound like they were taking names of people who "got in their way." It's 130 people in a GFRED, how can you expect people to NOT be in your way? I've always done GFRED because it's racing meets "stupid fun." It totally shouldn't work but absolutely DOES work and I think anyone getting upset about anything that happens in a GFRED has no one but themselves to blame.
Fully agree Broughy. After watching the video from the pov of the man who won one of your 300+ player gfred. And hearing all of his mates in party chat with him complain like children (it must be said) over how people crash into them while they're driving towards in the city or towards Chiliad is ridiculous. That's all part of the experience of Gfred's, it's inherently chaotic. People shouldn't believe that they should have right of way and not be caught up in crashes because of there ability. I Would very much promote a system you discussed. Thanks
On a serious note I will say based on my new experience with gfreds, everyone has been more than pleasant to me understanding I'm new and still learning paths and methods. I get in the VC on 8th gear and it's always a positive time. I've even made some big mistakes and wasn't hounded for it. I've been given advice by many including rbs and other top racers. Hell 1 I was last 1 coming in and was quite a bit behind and nobody gave me hell, bullied or made fun. I even volunteered to just back out so the race could be over and they all said no and let me finish my race. Nothing but positive experiences in my handful of gfreds.
Absolutely love the BoP idea, give some people who otherwise wouldn't the chance to run at the front, and if nothing else it'll immediately answer the question "how important is optimising the start and getting to the highway first?"
Basically: if you're not first, you're last. RBS has already tried several ways to delay himself at the start, and the unlucky ones that are in the middle of the pack get screwed over with cars so much that he'll be right next to them once they get in something, even when waiting over a minute.
Like any competition, it's more fun to watch (and participate in) when it's competitive i.e., a large number of people are jostling to win. A 'sweatfred' with 30 top-tier players would be great, but in public gfreds a handicap system seems like a good solution. I'd suggest two things: First, something to delay top-tier players a little bit at the start so that they have to compete for cars with the scrubs. That will minimize a very big source of their advantage. Second, some additional handicap(s) to keep them in the pack during the rest of the race. Joker-lap style detours on the long straights could accomplish this without boring waits.
"DERFG is the only real variation we can do on Project Homecoming" he says. Project Homecoming is a Variation by itself, even if you had vanilla traffic, the cars are fully upgraded, but you never use vanilla traffic, its almost always far better options than vanilla. 150mph indeed. If you can't set a legitimate Stream Record, its a variation.
Add the Vespucci pier in-between Mt Chiliad and the observatory as a variation GFRED and another possibly catastrophic choke point for people to contend with.
Dude, his chiliad full send is perfect every time and he gets to the bottom in like 20 sec. He makes up like 25 to 40 sec on thr field just with that. I keep telling brough to watch his stuff. He has some lines no one else uses or attempts.
@@anthonyfaccaro7118 I feel broughy doesnt want to have a perfect descent, the fails and the carnage are what make the gfreds special. no one wants to see a bot do a perfect line every time
I think the ballast idea is brilliant. I appreciate the skill involved in a great Gfred but the appeal (for me at least) is the organized chaos factor. It would be a lot less fun for me as a viewer (and probably for the more casual runners) if it became more about a handful of extremely skilled people running near perfect but sterile races.
I think those players who are too competetive and who are only here to try on stream records should start their own stream insted and make rules that fit them self, than complain... I'm only here for Broughy content, so if someone beat the streamrecord, or their race got messed up by other player, if it not involved Broughy, I couldn't care less about those players... I have watched Gfred and random all races for over 5 years, and the best part is crashes and mistakes, makes races more interested. Ofcourse I like see Broughy make records too and wins, but pain and suffer is more fun XD
Yeah stream races are about fun and entertainment. Coming into it trying for a WR and making it about your own win is pretty damn selfish. It's a game. It's also not your stream. I've played with hyper competitive gamers like that who end up sucking the fun out of the experience. We are here for Broughy and Friends, not records and wins.
@@DJ_Mooseknucks I agree, gfred and rAll are for our entertainment but players should have fun playing and be happy to be on broughy's stream/video 😊 altough I think it's good for the other more normal races to have more good and competetive players so the bar getting little higher and better for us to see how Broughy is doing comparing to winning all the time, we will never understand how good/bad he is.
Im glad you finally said something about this, I would wake up every morning and see the video and get excited to see the chaos and see who would win and it was random and it made it fun, but as a viewer from day one seeing gfred turn to the same people winning all the time everytime by 20+ second makes it where its not that fun entertainment it once was. It's been my biggest complaint of like the last 5/6 months but I just never made a comment until you said this 😭. And now you said people are getting mad about their precious little world record being stopped when it was never the main focus of this race is wild and sad to me. Like go do that somewhere else and leave these races to the people that are here for entertainment and chaos like it was originally meant for.
i love the content and i am biased as I mostly watch Broughy stuff (as I said I like the content), but for me Broughy is the one complaing most/ a lot abt others. Be it backmarkers in random racing, people entering the tunnel bridge wrongly, touching him due to lag, not seeing or just bad luck. The changes to a more casual approach might be interesting.Looking forward to it
I totally understand your intention with wanting to change up Gfred. People get good over time and want to play their best. Have you though about maybe doing 'casual' and 'competitive' gfreds? For example if a person finishes a Gfred under a certain time then they get to compete in the competitive gfred. This way noone gets 'punished' and maybe it even motivates players who otherwise didn't try to improve by learning the new lines to do it and advance. But then again, as I'm writing this, I realize that this too is not what you invisioned when you made gfred and there already are other gfreds that people are doing that essentially acomplish what I wrote above. If anything, this just shows how much a race you randomly made up has inspired people and turned into its own sport, quite remarkable
Hopefully those that are complaining will take a chance to step back for a while and realize that GFRED is for everyone to have fun and not for your own personal dorky chance at glory.
GFred is great, but it's slightly lost its way. People up the top treat it like a tournament/a proper race... It should be about having fun, exploring new things and not dripping in sweat, best lines/tactics to WIN because that isn't what matters. Let's get back to basics, normal GFreds (cut down on the variations for a while) and find itself again before it's too late!
On the subject of GFREDs remaining fun and enjoyable. I think the routes have gotten too optimized. The fun has always been in the variability. I think a GFRED style race with different checkpoint locations would be awesome.
Those are simply cannonballs to be fair which we've done plenty of already. I'd do them more frequently and interspersed with Gfred but people love their Gfred
@@broughy1322 The difference with a Cannonball is that it is a race that only happens once. I think it would definitely be interesting to have another randomly scattered checkpoint map that people could start learning and optimizing again. One of the most interesting parts of GFRED especially early on was people learning new routes. From the OG line to the hotlap line, the swim to the island replaced by the mountain jump and then the hail mary, now it feels like people have to heavily optimize the existing route. The middle route was a nice addition along with some of the swimming lines, but those still pale in comparison to when the GFRED routes were still being theory crafted.
Having a new permanent route would only mean the gaps get bigger between those who do it often and those who don’t. If anything it makes the problem worse. Gfred had years of optimising. It would be mere weeks for anything new. Recent minifreds are a perfect example, where a small number who have hotlapped it are leaps and bounds ahead of everyone else. You’ll never get that slow progression that gfred experienced again. Different times.
That was glorious. Have you considered making a new GFRED so nobody knows the optimal route? Maybe get a third party, who doesn't play GTA, to design it so literally nobody knows the route.
You mean like the FiveM Cannonball races that are randomly generated out of a preset list of checkpoints? ru-vid.com/group/PLx_tHjuVuROBpzL7bD5DV_bLoEk4JkVPi
@wes3391 no because that's literally cannonball which is randomised, gfred has fixed checkpoints hence maybe 1 or 2 more tracks with fixed checkpoints cycled for each season.
BROUGHY BROUGHY I HAVE AN IDEA for a variation.. BACKTRACKFRED When you hit a checkpoint you got to return to the previous checkpoint before heading to the next. Derf lines and gfred lines in one race with some spicy new lines to find... It'll be carnage ❤ Maybe avoid returning to the starting island, 3 swims in a row might be abit much.
Did Broughy ever done a pain GFRED, where basically the traffic only has meme vehicle/vehicles with special gimmics? Imagine the traffic with the Doc Hermes, Sentient Vamos, PerenL, brake boost and handbrake boost Feltzer, Carbonisquera, Stancerope, Rabaneroll, Toofari, negative Kuruma...
I console myself with the knowledge that I'll never have to wait at the beginning of any gfred! Even if I get a massive yeet, I'm never going to win one But I sure do have fun, especially in the chaos Cheers eh
I find myself wondering..... Would maybe some sort of league or tier structure be, if not the, at least an answer? I mean that seems like a whole crapton of work to track and rank and enforce, but speaking personally, I don't want, as a mid to rear packer, to be the guy who is getting in the way of someone who is maybe on for a new PB or WR.... I've been in the way more than often enough, and I hate being that guy when it happens, even if there's never any malice attached. The first few times I did SaucerCats Your Daily Gfred, I felt like such an idiot cause it seemed like all I did was be in the way. If I had not been encouraged by the other Your Daily Gfred folks to keep at it, I might very well have gone in search of Gfredders more my own skill (or lack there of) level. Or I might have just packed it in all together... I'm glad I didn't do that. I don't think I would have learned the thigs I've learned, anywhere near as quick as I learned them... Not that I'm that much better than when I started. But I'm having fun. I hope the fellas around me are having fun too. See ya's on The Gfred eh
Re: your success ballast idea, I'd consider going even further, with a tapering handicap either down the podium or to 5th. Say 15s for P1, 10s for, 5s for P3, but I am skeptical that that is enough margin given the gaps we see at the front of these events so often. However, coming thru the field is a slowdown in its own right too.
Remember it has to be easily policed, going down to the top 5 means worse case scenario Brough and or his mods need to note down almost 55 names and cross check whether they were in the previous freds and where they finished -- just looking at 1st makes it an easier process for all
I seem to remember more than one occasion where Broughy called out others for not sticking to the right. Does that not count as complaining that someone got in their way?
That seems more like slight annoyance. The person/people he mentioned seem to have DMd him to complain about people, probably in hopes of them being punished. Those are quite different levels of "complaining"
@@c0ldc0ne also sticking to the right was like a rule that everyone agreed to back when they first started doing gfred( can't remember if it's a official rule but it was definitely agreed amongst the og gfreders), it was only when new people joined slowly over time did it become more of a thing of people going left. That's why he says it when it happens
I agree that there should be no complaining about GFRED for getting in the way and such. Unless someone is being deliberately trolled. However, I approach my agree from a different angle. Dodging other people is part of the skill of GFRED and lets be honest nonprofessional racing in general. Got wrecked? Skill issue. Making the most of whatever happens and not getting chapped cheeks is GFRED spirit And I'm a pretty competitive sort when it comes to racing.
While I understand trying to get the fun of Gfred back, time handicapping successful Gfred winners adds a layer of enforcement to manage which becomes complex as you get a wider pool of winners in a season, and won't it just raise the stakes of handicapped people wanting a clean run. I don't profess on the spur of the moment to have the answer, but one thing that comes to mind is ban the train tracks as a route to chilliad.
People being ultracompetitive over a race that was created completely randomly for fun is absolutely bonkers to me. Ultracompetitiveness in general is throwing me off, everything doesn't have to be about being the best of the best. People speedrun Gfred, exploit the game's physics, the map and so on to win as many times as possible while there's absolutely no reward apart from seeing your name on top of a board for 10 seconds, and that's expanding way larger than Gfred, it expands to most games in 2024. Where has the fun aspect in videogames gone honestly???
@broughy1322 So when you had (Slimmy I believe) knock you off the side of chiliad a few weeks or a month back, we had to spend like 15 minutes or more analyzing and reanalyzing stream footage to see if it was an intentional hit on you or not; but when someone intentionally or unintentionally blocks another players path, and they complain to you about the blocker, your idea is that all the sudden the game is being taken too seriously and maybe the rules need to change? Love watching the GFREDs and Cannonballs, and I understand your point, but this seems like two pretty similar situations being handled much differently.
They weren't complaining to Broughy about the incident, they went out of their way to lecture the other person which sparked everything. Two different cases.
@@slimyclips When I first saw it (from his perspective) I wasn't sure. But hearing your reaction on (I think) RBS's video, I was sure you hadn't intentionally done it. However, the amount of time spent watching and re-watching the video seemed kind of silly to me, especially now.
@@DiNmiTe Didn't sound like that was what Broughy was saying, but ok. This all seems really ridiculous to me. Broughy may not have lectured Slimy directly, but we all got to see an extended break-down of the footage, over, and over, and over again, basically inviting the community to jump in and provide feedback on it. Two different cases, sure, but not all that different in how seriously they were treated. What's worse? Getting the whole Broughy Twitch community involved during the stream (in addition to video playback provided on YT - hundreds of thousands of viewers / subscribers), or the "lecture" given to the blocker? There is a spread sheet with a list of the top 5 finishers, "top 5 is always possible", it's important to Broughy and many/most others just to make the spreadsheet. It's even more important to many to set new records, Broughy has even talked about new world records on many occasions during the stream. He's also kind of made fun of other racing being done with catch-up and slip-stream on, because we do serious racing here. Now, someone either blocked a path intentionally, or had zero awareness to stay to the right, and all the sudden this is being taken too seriously? What was expected to happen? With that being said, I didn't see this "lecture," so maybe it got out of hand? Either way, this has all been setup to be taken seriously.
You have a very simple ruleset for these races...and that's one of the best things about these races. Maybe one or two more rules to take care of possible "bad behavior", to prevent intentional ruining others races and you are fine. Like "On roads and on train tracks, stick to the right unless you want to overtake somebody. Don't drive intentionally into oncoming traffic longer than you need to." But please, don't dictate specific routes or ways to enter/exit any part of the race segments. And when it gets to competitivenes...YOU are the one recognizing and recording each and every Top5 result of your gfreds, the stream records etc. That implies that these races have a big competitive part in them. If anyone wants to do gfreds otherwise...they're free to do their own races...as some already do...with own rulesets. But please: Don't ruin your races by pleasing some players
When you have people doing dumb shit, intentionally crashing, not giving right of way where it should be applied ofc people will complain. I understand chaos is a part of it but intentionally creating it should be punished, people taking trucks and other large vehicles that have no ability to be useful for AP jump should have their GFRED rights stripped imo. Even if fun and content is the name of the game it shouldn't be an excuse to intentionally hamper others. Yes I've been punted off by a dump truck coming down to AP jump in 8G fred
I think the waiting for gfred is a terrible idea. I think if someone wins you should forbid him using supercars or fast sports like 9f. Also you should consider the overall pace of the winners, some winners can do solo gfreds in 15 minutes, some in 16 or 17, so maybe the faster is the player and the more fast cars you don't allow him to use. But usually it's 2 or 3 guys win everytime so maybe you must restrict those people more than others
So the problem is not that people are good at it, yet that's the change being implemented. Broughy set a precedent on the middle route in that snowFred from NYE. Broughy was mad about a collision and replayed it over and over again, in slow motion. I agree that it should be fun and results are unimportant.
Removing the context there, Brough was figuring out whether that hit was malicious, not the same as the incident that triggered this discussion at the start of the video. Besides, after the final snowfred he immediately calmed down and stopped caring about the hit that happened the Fred before
@@DiNmiTe yes, Broughy is very chill & rarely takes exception to collisions. In fact, I would say that he is far too lenient. Still, I made several valid points that still stand. There is no reason to punish Lok or RBS, I would prefer to race them fair & square. I'm not familiar with the particular incident that triggered the discussion in this video.
Personally I feel if people are being toxic, shaming other people and going out of their way to message you, then they should just not be welcomed to stream races; temporarily or permanently. There are people who do gfred competitively that don’t do that, so I don’t think it’s a matter of the competitive culture. Rather, a few bad eggs that don’t know how to act. I find it especially bizarre to hear that people are messaging you since you’ve always positioned yourself as simply the host of the races, not as some all-seeing moderator of Gfreds. It’s always been a community thing, and those people don’t have that view. Edit: I should also mention that I’m personally a fan of watching competitive gfreders do great runs, even in these streams. It’s very similar to watching great runs of ‘Jeopardy!’ champions like James Holzhauer a while back. But I get why people don’t like that given the history of gfred.
What i would do to "fix" GFRED. If it started out as a random checkpoint race, just shuffle the checkpoints again. All new routs and time to learn whats best.
This. Maybe go observatory, start island, end island, airport, quarry, chiliad. Longer distances between checkpoints. My example would have no downhill chiliad, strictly to handicap RBS lol.
Suggestion: RBS or someone should stream an ultra competitive championship of GFRED's with points and everything. Broughy's streams should never ever be part of that championship and everyone should get along nicely.
GFred should never be considered a proper race - it has rules to stop people trolling and being an idiot on purpose. But the racing side should just be fun and the random aspect of things is what makes it a GFred.
I want to say that your stream records are not helping the competitive nature. Everyone wants to be listed as the record holder. If you want the competitiveness out of streams, stop keeping records of the winners. You can still keep the solo gfred records for people to beat in their own race.
My solutions for the gfred problem: 1. Make a video telling people to cool it with the competitivenes for a race that can decide the winner in the first minute 2. If vanilla gfred People who win races, are banned from using the best cars for the next race
I take your point that GFRED should be fun and in good spirit and that you don't like to see complaints, but what are the GFRED rules for then? Saying you don't want to hear any complaints ever again would basically mean everybody gets to do what they want, wouldn't it? Like for example screw waiting at the train tracks. But I get that it shouldn't be that for some people its like this super sweaty competitive speed run while other people are just having fun. Still even with everybody abiding to the rules there would be plenty of randomness and player interactions involved.
To be fair I only rarely actually wait on the traintracks. On the bridge I frequently pull the not-worth-it move of putting my right tyres on the raised walkway so I can still drive past those that are crossing the bridge. Mind you this frequently just gets me stuck with no ground contact instead.
Broughy, I think you are being a little hypocritical. I have heard you complain and name names, many times when someone is in the wrong lane coming at you or does not wait in the train tunnels or knocks you off course. If players can shamelessly knock into each other at will, how about pit maneuvers? Where is the line? Is it supposed to be a clean race or a free for all? Handicapping the best players because you can no longer compete looks like sad desperation to me. OK, I can't believe I care enough to type this. Whatever, it is your gig. I admit that seeing the carnage is most of the fun. I like the suggestion below about having a casual league and a competitive league.
@@chair5728 And right there we fundamentally disagree. It should be as competitive as possible. The best racer should win and people crashing into you because they are either stupid or not paying attention, should be banned for a period. Yes, you are meant to be in danger of hitting other players, but crashes shouldn't happen because of negligence, but because of chance.
Look man, I get it, but [REDACTED] is going on an all time run right now. I get that this was made to be silly, but everyone including you take it seriously and you HAVE made a somewhat big deal in the past when you thought someone messed you up on purpose. Point being, you don’t get to choose how seriously this will be taken as a speed running category in the future. Whose to say there won’t be a summoningsalt video on Gfred in like 7 years? I understand everyone’s frustration here, but either there’s rules for the sake of competition, or it’s a non competitive silly exhibition race. Trying to have both at the same time won’t work
Glad the 15 second rule for those who win GFRED's is coming into effect next season, it was grinding on me all these hot lappers just being in stream taking the fun out of what is supposed to be a fun race
Maybe hosting GFreds for the more casual people without the super sweats would be nice to keep some things mixed up and make it more fun like it used to be.
I see many suggesting a change in checkpoints for the gfred but I think that people like me love the gfred as it is and find enjoyment when someone optimizes or comes up with a new line. The crashes, the carnage, the total uncertainty is what makes a gfrea, A gfred. I don't know how things would move forward with regards to the negativity/ saltiness in these gfreds but I hope everything goes well.
A small problem with line optimisation is that we're at a point where new lines save very little time and are significantly more risky, both for the user AND other racers.
GG! Good work! I'm sure some of the complaints have to do with new people coming to Gfreds. Watching other races, I've seen people complain of scummy "GTAonline" style tactics that seem outside the spirit of Gfred. I'd imagine the competitiveness goes both ways, though. People who are veterans that are mad at newbies, and newbies that want to atleast place at any cost. Hmm that 10 second penalty for wins suggestion sounds like a class race... or an RBS nerf lol.
I know it seems drastic, but have you ever considered changing the Gfred route? I feel as though people take things more seriously the better they get. People generally have more fun trying something new because they have no expectations for their performance.
In my experience with the stream Gfred's, getting crashed out sucks but it's just something that's likely to happen with so many moving parts. I think that some people could think a bit more about certain courtesies like waiting until traffic passes on the train bridges if the other people have gotten there first. It's just a bad time for everyone when there's a clogged bridge. I try to be mindful of others when I'm playing, but there are some situations where you don't have much choice but to push your way through a traffic jam.
Will the +-15 sec penalty be deducted from their final time? What if they would have had the streamrecord without the penalty? Just a question, i also want the fun to come back/continue
There's a few, but none that save a massive amount of time. Unless you count what I can only assume was a bug that I experienced during a Project Homecoming derfG as a parachute line, I guess.
Yay, you are probably the first one who noticed it^^ I didn't discover this line, but I used it before to overtake Cyptex for the podium in derfGfrederfG we did once on Wednesday in the past, feel free to check it out on my channel^^
There's an even faster line: you turn left earlier and yeet left of the bridge. I haven't managed to get it anywhere near consistently but the potential is absolutely there.
@@heavyflavor4159 after testing, I've realised that it is, in fact, not faster than a perfectly executed under the bridge strat. It's very close, but slightly slower (still faster than using the bridge normally at least) and significantly more difficult to do. In the Infernus, my 2nd attempt at going under the bridge was very good. Whereas with my devised line, it took like 8-10 attempts to get a very good one (and it was basically impossible with the 9F because it bounces too much).
