I know writing out a comment is hard work, so I've written a sentence for you to copy and paste in the comment box. I am helpful "You are wrong and your face is stupid"
"You are wrong and your face is stupid" Nah not really, as much as I disagree with this & your season 3 video you have a right to express your opinion.
I did find it a bit strange when lucas told eleven that max was in hospital and eleven looked shocked. It was like she totally forgot she was in that scene.
Stranger Things feels like it's falling into the same category as the later Harry Potter novels, where the series has reached such a level of popularity that the editors feel they can't intervene in the creators' decisions, and it results in the stories bloating to ridiculous lengths and succumbing to major pacing issues. Something I've been doing as I've rewatched the show recently was take note of how long it took for each season opener to introduce all its main characters, and doing so has demonstrated to me how much of a problem pacing has been for this show for a LONG time. I was taken aback with how tight and focussed season 1 was, establishing all its main characters and their respective storylines before the first episode was halfway done. By contrast, season 4 doesn't introduce a substantial portion of the characters until later on, and even then most of the characters that do get introduced in the opener feel mostly superfluous until the main story actually starts in episode 2, or even later in some cases (the most egregious case of this is Erica, who gets introduced in episode 1, and then basically vanishes from the season until episode 6). I have definitely enjoyed season 4 for the most part, but it desperately needed someone to tell the Duffer brothers to cut certain scenes and tighten up the pacing substantially
“Editors feel they can’t intervene in the creators decisions” is a spot on description of what happened here. Considering where Netflix is atm I imagine they especially will have struggled trying to put their foot down on the creators if they even though to do so in the first place.
Glad I'm not the only one who thinks that HP got too long starting from book 4. Editing is vital, and a disadvantage of books and streaming services compared to movies and live TV is that there's no time constraint, so no need to edit out filler.
Yeah, fair enough. The only think I'd disagree with is Jason. When he referenced all the local deaths as a way to hype up the crowd for his basket-ball game, I knew exactly what type of person he was.
I've always said that I enjoy spending time with these characters so much that I could watch a completely non-supernatural season with them and still be entertained. That being said, even I found the length daunting on paper.
I think Joyce has done the grief storyline enough already, but I like the idea of keeping Hopper Schrödingered. Though I imagine they knew they couldn't keep that quiet. The bullying I think needs to be unrelenting and I don't think bullies need to be anything other than shits. The Satanic Panic over Metal and D&D was huge in the 80s - you don't need to explain why someone would believe it, it was a mainstream opinion in the US at least
The worst thing about this season is how they treated Mike and Will's subtle love story and their overall story arcs, they did literally nothing through the season, just unnecesary long quiet scenes that show us that by the way they also exist.
They literally call each episode chapters. And them not knowing where to split the last episode really sounds like they wrote it and then couldn't be bothered to write another draft, as if they're not writers who try to think of creative ways out of situations all the time.
@@Stubagful Netflix should learn from this and pretend they're a live TV service rather than a streaming service. The limits channel time acted as a natural editor, forcing writers to cut out filler. Limitless time and limitless budgets create these bloated shows.
The explanation for the overlong episodes: the cast got paid per episode. So financially its just way more lucrative to have less episodes with longer runtime.
They ran out of things to do with him. I was invested in season 1 because the image of a little boy whose best friend has been kidnapped by monsters is really quite powerful. Now....he's just another kid really
@@Stubagfulthat’s what I’m saying it’s like everything he went through never happened and he’s so dumb now In season 1 and 2 bro was super smart, now Ik he’s getting older but they just made all of his bad traits his main traits and is only know as elevens bf.
I totally agree. Max is the best character, it was a slow start and not in a good way, and I just can't defend the runtime. The "but movies" argument is dumb because movies that are 2 and a half hours long start and end there, there has already been hours of this story that have already played out and its too much. "but the pause button" so what, I have to make the split for you? Isn't your job to, yknow, make the show? Why do I have to do it? More importantly you understand that the reason for your show being what it is, is because of binging right?
The townspeople are portrayed as narrow-minded and dangerous fir thinking the Devil is coming for them, but the more they flesh out the Upside Down, the closer it comes to being Hell. Yeah, Jason accused the protagonists of being responsible, but I thought he made a pretty good guess.
I did really enjoy Stranger Things 4 and honestly I liked the longer run time, but I feel like the main thing bringing it down was how some characters felt completely underused. Johnathan and Will especially barely got anything to do and made very little impact on the plot other than just driving around and talking to Mike a bit. Argyle also has no reason to be there. I’m also not a fan of how much they humanised The Mind Flayer/Vecna. He went from some kind of lovecrafian horror entity to an evil wizard guy. The dream killing stuff was cool, but I just prefer cosmic horror to evil guy with a revenge motive.
I still can't overhear conversations of people mentioning "Hellfire Club" and not, with a raised eyebrow, associate that with the X-Men characters. Oh and... "You are wrong and your face is stupid"
Am I the only one that really hates Vecna as a villain? He’s just some guy. He’s not mysterious. He’s not ominous. He’s not scary. He’s just a guy. The make-up makes him look stupid from most angles as well. If he didn’t talk, it might’ve been a bit better, but still. I also hate how he created the upside down, the way we know it. There goes the S1 mystery, guess I can never rewatch that the same way again. Also, there’s a plothole where they say the upside down has stayed the same since 1983, while it’s clearly seen being interacted with in season one. Like when they set the carpet in the byers’ residence and the stain appears in the other dimension.
But to die on such a hill would it not be elementary that one must first reach the top by some form of fast leg movements that are synchronised to increase speed
@@Stubagful 100%. Sadie sink is brilliant too; not usually something I would’ve otherwise, but I actually checked out the fear street films when I heard she was in them - surprise, reliably great in those too. Probably sounds a little cringe but before the Last of Us was milked like a desert horse, Sadie Sink was a actually one of my picks for Ellie if they did a live action adaptation - I think she could get Ellie’s sarcasm and dry wit down to a tee! (Although I’m sure Bella Ramsay will do fine too).
@@Stubagful I' agree she's the best character in season 4, but I'd also argue she only gets good in season 4. She felt really superfluous in season 2 when we first met her, and all she really does in 3 is help feed El and Mike's relationship drama.
It's great that the show tried to really dig into its characters. I am not opposed to that idea... the problem is... well, we all went to high school. We all were teens. Some of us were bullied or had a friend that fell in with the jocks. Tv and movies have developed entire shorthand languages for depicting that. We don't need hours and hours of it. My opinion is that for at least the first 4 episodes about 30 minutes per episode could have been cut out and condensed.
0:18, Perhaps its weird for me to get hung up on this, but i did. On the one hand i would say you made a good decision not carrying on game of thrones, it started going downhill quite fast after season 4. But at the same time... why was joffrey dying the end point for you? Don't get me wrong, he was a monster, but I'd never describe him as "the big bad", he was just someone who never should have held any power but was able to do so due to the way the game of thrones worked. In the grand scheme he was more often a pawn to other characters, Plenty of whom had far more influence on the larger events of the show than joffrey did. Not to mention all the stuff with the wall and beyond that joffrey had no part in. Again, in retrospect you made a good decision stopping, I'm just kind of confused as to why you considered "kill joffrey" to be what should have been the shows endgame. Also, you are wrong and your face is stupid.
I kinda felt deflated because they made him such an unlikable shit that I found by the end of season 3 that the main reason I was watching it was the tension leading up to his inevitable death, then when it finally happened I had the release of "aaaaah so satisfying" and then I just sorta....forgot that it was still on. I kept thinking maybe I'd pick it up again eventually but I never felt the need to. He was like a nasty scab: once it's unpicked, I'm done with that phase of my life
@@Stubagful man , the rest of Season 4 is completely worth finishing. S4 is the last fully great season of the show. After that the following seasons have lots of good (5 and 6 have some incredible moments and episodes) , but generally somewhat a downhill from there. The aftermath of Joffrey's death is damn fantastic. Tyrion, Oberyn, Tywin... You're missing some good stuff here!
Stranger Things jumped the shark with S3. People love S4 because it's all style over substance once you get past the filler (the entire California side story).
You don't need to kill off your characters, though. Duffer Brothers have used death sparingly to help emphasize how much of a gut punch it is once it does happen, even to unliked characters such as Billy. They put in the work to make sure that a death is impactful both before the event and afterwards. When it's meant to be permanent, they make sure it feels permanent. It's not like there's a checklist saying you need to kill off x number of characters every season or something, and a show isn't bad because it decides to not kill off all or part its main cast in a given season.
I saw a comment on the ST reddit about how consequences are more important to a story than death is. The show can write characters out in ways other than death and probably should as they aren't doing anything with some of them. I adore the scene between Jonathan and Will at the end of the season but what is he still doing here? I think when people want DEATH in television they mean they want dramatic consequences and a changing cast. It's like when people talk about wanting big reveal plot twists at the end of movies, its using a specific dramatic tool as a general one
That script bit made me chuckle and its the way it was written I think especially the basketball scene. I dont read stranger things scripts as an example, im more into the older dr who scripts and inside number nine as inspiration when writing just like tv pilots and episodes in my own time.
I enjoyed this season as dumb action-comedy-horror entertainment but I really did feel like they are stretching out the series as much as they can. Guess they don't want to let the golden goose die.
Hey, have you seen "Over the Garden Wall"? If not, you might want to check it out. It is super short (ten episodes that are eleven minutes long and the story is definitely over) and the only animated show for (at least old-ish) children that I could enjoy as an adult. Couldn't get into "Gravity Falls" or "Adventure Time", but "Over the Garden Wall" was no problem to get into. And it has something about it I can't describe, but maybe *you* could.
Really late to this one but I think a lot of your critiques are pretty valid. I enjoyed the season but I understand your complaints as some of them were mine as well. I hated Angela and Jason a lot mostly because they were terrible people but you were right about them being plot devices. The pacing was more my issue as the previous seasons were a bit snappier and more quickly edited. I actually had that same idea about splitting the finale in two. I think it could've been cool to end on the cliffhanger of Eleven having Vecna in her grasp as she essentially completed as the title of the episode was her piggyback. I thought if there was a tenth episode it could be called The Aftermath. It's vague enough to make the audience think, "What does that mean? Did our heroes win or did Vecna? Just my two cents.
Pretty much agree. One more thing i'd like to point out tho, is how underused will is since the second season. I mean, man this show is originally about him, i wanna see him do something now.
What Ben Johnson said of Shakespeare, "would he hath blotted a thousand" is how I felt about S4. It has good moments, but you can cut half out and lose nothing. Get rid of Hopper and the whole thing flows better. S4 nullifies his letter at the end of S3 and sets the precedent that there's no threat because noone can die.
I agree but I think season 2 would've been a good finally concludeding everything but the upside down at the end. That's not really setting everything up but showing it's still around like the real world
I wanted to pledge some money to your project cause the Got your nose film sounded like a really interesting idea, but the website you're using seems to only accept creditcard? I'm 30 years old and have always been able to avoid having to get a creditcard and I would love to uphold that tradition. Any other payment methods?
Hi Indiegogo accepts debit cards, google pay, apple pay - if none of those suit then you can send money with paypal to my email address stubagful@gmail.com and I can process it and send you any perks. If none of that suits then just drop me an email and we can sort something out Hope that helps :) Thank you
The run time this season was honestly super detrimental Found myself literally skipping scenes because I was genuinely so uninterested in certain plots
Stanger Things season 4 episodes long length not making them better proves that "criticism" of new Doctor Who episodes are automatically bad because of 45 minuets is bullshit. Good writing, good world building, good characterization, and good pacing is not bound to any amount of time. Genesis of the Daleks and Midnight are good stories regardless of length. Warriors of the Deep and Hell Bent are shit regardless of length.
I actually love Steve, he's my favourite but it was the perfect opportunity to kill him off this season, with Nancy starting to rekindle her feelings.for him and his development pretty much complete. It's getting really tiring and predictable that every season they will introduce a new, likeable character because you just KNOW they are the canon fodder for that series so it's no surprise when they eventually die (Bob and Alexei still hurt 😢). Jonathan just needs to go now, he literally serves no purpose.
I agree that the good stuff is great but a lot of it is not good. We don’t seem to fully agree on what is or isn’t good though. So quick breakdown: The Russia plot is pulpy fun, Eddy is fantastic, most the previously good characters (Dustin, Steve, Robin, Erica, etc.) are still good, there’s some good creep out moments, Nancy works so much better unshackled from Jonathan, and Max is undoubtedly the MVP of the season. However, I found those two first episodes to be insufferable. Part of this might be that I’m at an age where I just can’t gel with high school drama anymore, because I know it doesn’t matter. Yes I get that it matters to them and I remember my own nonsense felt like it mattered at the time but… it just doesn’t. It’s really rare these days that a school setting doesn’t immediately turn me off. Hawkins high school was a little better because at least that gave us Eddy but the stuff in California was painful for me to watch. I also don’t understand why they brought “Papa” back. My gut instinct is they were stuck doing it because it was teased in Season 2, but nearly everything interesting and meaningful about his presence happens in the flashbacks. I’d have much preferred a deeply conflicted Dr. Owen to be doing this on his own instead of defaulting all authority to this boring ass. But most of all, I fucking loath Vecna. Now I know I’m in the minority on this, and I do want to clarify on thing. I dig his MO, the way that guilt ridden characters are targeted, the early hallucinations, the use of music to pull people out all totally work. It’s not his methods that make me hate Vecna it’s his character and the effect his presence has on the Upside Down. Part of what I’ve always loved about the show was it went properly Lovecraftian with the Upside Down because it has creatures way outside our understanding, and things like the Mind Flayer displaying clear intelligence but having impenetrable motives and methods. It was alien, it was bizarre and now… it’s all about some dude… from earth… who has powers and the single most boring backstory in fiction: he was just always evil. His existence demystifies the Upside Down, especially given some of the implications of his relationship with it that we see towards the end. And he’s just so fucking boring. Every time he talked I moaned for him to shut up. I hate Vecna so much I’m not really looking forward to season 5 anymore. Also you are wrong and your face is stupid.
Honestly, I do think it’s quite good though. Obviously it’s got it’s fair share of flaws as Stu points out, but I do enjoy it all the same. Sure, the hype can blind some people to genuine critique sometimes, but equally, I do think some things sometimes blow up because they are good - that’s not always the case, and hype and buzz around it again can then cause others to be disappointed by others saying how amazing it is by the time they watch it, and no, it’s not the best thing ever to me; though i was honestly the same with GoT. I can appreciate why people like it so much, but by the time I watched it, it just didn’t click and it doesn’t do much for me. Still, I thought this season was pretty solid TV though. To each their own though!
My predictions for Stranger Things season 5 is that it either ends up being as bad as Game of Thrones season 8 or ends up being another big critically divided dumpster fire like the Last Jedi.
You’re wrong and your face is… wow, idk its not beautiful but its definitely not stupid. There’s… an ugly charm to it. Like the way you feel when watching nature documentaries about bugs. I… I’m overcome with a sense of… emptiness. Perhaps I am no longer capable of hatred
