To answer questions regarding why this was done the way that it was. Why no LVL or steel?- If I straighten this run completely, it won't be coplaner with the rest of the ceiling that has also settled for 70 years. We're aiming to finish this ceiling with T&G recessed up to help make the ceiling height appear higher as well as add some detail. Single joists for as many runs as possible was the goal and I will be carrying the T&G down and mitering it around this triple as well as the joists next to it to box all of them in together. It's a cottage with 6'-3" ceilings and a larger joist or post in the dead center of a living room wasn't an option. Why not southern yellow pine?- Southern yellow pine in my area is pressure treated, we're not allowed to use pressure treated indoors for a ridiculous reason which is that in case of a fire they don't want firemen inhaling it(I know, ridiculous). Also, the spans for SYP to SPF are within 6" of each other, neither of which are anywhere near what's necessary for this span. Why not through bolt it?- 4 1/2" lag screws that were designed to replace lag bolts are more than adequate. This triple as well as the entire run of undersized joists are assisted by a wall that runs up to oversized roof rafters with extra blocking and hangers. I worked with an engineer for a field solution that kept everything coplaner as well as not having any posts in the middle of a living room. This survived as a double for over 70 years and it will survive for a lot longer with the solutions provided. Thank you for the overwhelming majority of positive comments and to any negative ones all I can say is to just take off your black and white goggles and understand that there's some gray in the world of construction and remodeling.
You should not interpret comments adding additional suggestions or ideas as "negative" - obviously you improved your ceiling and offered helpful ideas - but you need to realized that others need to see the glass half empty side of this - especially as half those watching your video are going to be looking at removing a supporting 2x4 wall as step #1. They need to proceed with a full picture. As for my comments I should have mentioned that it is a helpful video and a good starting off point - just overlooked that point. Good point about trreated wood - one option is to get 2x8 in pine and rip it back to needed dimention.
@@bwj999 I wasn't referring to the comments recommending proper solutions such as steel, LVLs, yellow pine, or through bolts as negative. I meant the very few where I was called lazy or told I shouldn't be near structural work. There was only a couple. I certainly invite constructive feedback. The real point of this video is that regardless of the span or beam size, this is the procedure. If I was to be sistering multiple at once, I would show them all being jacked up in unison by a single header, rather than individually as some people may mistakenly do. I really enjoy structural work and I do run into it fairly often. Hopefully I can run into it soon where headroom isn't restricted and I can use properly sized beams to really make a big difference. Thanks for your feedback sir.
@@Tool_Addicted_Carpenter there's always people that think there's only 1 way to solve a problem (and that they know it). They'll never get far in life though because they can't think outside the box. They'll be helpers for their entire life they're never going to run a crew. Tradesmen understand there's multiple ways to do things and they understand when to do different things. Ignore the haters. They'll always be there.....at dirt cheap wages
As we said during the gut reno of my house..."it's a G-O-K job; God Only Knows. Good luck with things. Those of us that have done jobs like this understand that it won't ever be perfect. Sometimes you just have to understand it's a really old house and from time to time you have accept the build otherwise you'll go crazy and end up spending more time and money than it's worth. Again, good luck.
It’s nice to see actual construction shit that makes sense lol. I’m tired of tools being used for the wrong purpose or people doing shit completely wrong. Great job great explanation
Right. Like, obviously this isn't "ideal" but it makes the most sense. It's not overly intrusive. It will do a great job of helping hold that load. For those that think lag screws are inferior. I have bad news. Thy are often much better because they are smaller in diameter and cause less splitting. All the while, having a higher shear strength. Good work, sometimes engineering is a matter of compromise.
No kidding, in gonna remember that one. I have a couple joists that are sagging and one that's split down the middle starting at a knot. This is going to save me so much headache.
@@2009dudeman yeah here I am putting 12 footers through windows and ripping up an extra 5 foot of floor when I could have literally taken 20 degrees off my angle without sacrificing and structural integrity.
Remove old joists, flip them upside down, enjoy the perfect flat floor in about a year as they move towards sag again in 2 years... Undersized joists are the gift that keeps giving..
@@MrStuffdude I do not. A metal worker (place that sells ibeams etc) just made a 17' 1/4x7 1/4" with predrilled holes staggered and we cut a groove and raised it into place while jacking the floor to straight (probably 150lb it took 3 guys) and thru bolted it with half inch bolts. Bolting it to wood actually worked great as the wood kept the metal vertical and from twisting under load (thus no 'i' beam necessary) and the metal obviously provides tremendouse support to the undersized wood girder.
Yes sir. Remodeled a house last year that was built in 1860. Someone hacked in a bathroom on the 2nd floor. The plumber drilled 3 1/2" waste pipe holes through 2x6s underneath a cast iron tub and under a supporting wall for the dormer they cut in to make the bathroom. It was sagging over 3". I had my plumber reroute the waste pipe so it ran down one bay to the basement with no holes through the joists. I sistered all the 2x6s with 2x8s and used two 20 ton jacks over the course of a few days with some fun creaks and pops. I finally dropped everything back onto the 2x8s and was only left with ~1/2" of sag. Very satisfying.
I have use this technique so many times over the years I can’t even count. The little chunk you cut off before putting that floor joist in is the key! Nice work!
Was never a carpenter or any skilled trade I was always very strong and could lift anything from scaffold boards to sleepers, but watching these types of videos has made me fall in love with workworking and I've brought a selection of tools to do some basic work in my garage. Love watching professionals like yourself 🙏
There was this guy named Igor that was pretty much a literal giant. We basically did that to every joist so it would feel so springy to him. We also got him a lot of custom amish made furniture. Me and my two cousins could sit comfortably in his chair side by side. He use a 6 person dining table as a desk. He was the nicest guy in the world Edit Igor not Egor
I did a bathroom remodel in a 1950s house with undersized joists. I don't think people realize even being undersized how strong they are. I pulled 4500lbs of concrete/mortar and tile out of the ensuite and there was no sag in the floor after 70 years.
100%. The structural integrity of materials are judged by their absolute minimum capabilities. They take the weakest lumber in its class and make codes based on that weakest link. Sometimes it's 50x weaker. You could drive a truck across a couple 2x12s on the flat.
Thank you sir. The torch blades are awesome. They're just too thick for the blade flex required to hit some tight spots. I cut over 400 nails with a basic thin diablo that cracked at the collet and still lasted for another 40-50 nails. My biggest issue with blades is their weak point at the collet and Milwaukee fails while diablo lasts. I don't have enough experience with every blade on the market to say that diablo is the best but they certainly make me the most money.
This was done correctly. I approve. This method is also used to help support the roof when load-bearing walls are removed to 'open up' several smaller rooms into larger one, a somewhat common practice nowadays in remodeling. But don't do it without an engineer! No engineer, no remove wall!
Depends on the guy. I used an engineer for this to approve of supporting it from above. At this point though, I can almost always correctly guess which size beams, posts, and hangers I need. I'm just remodeling though so things are fairly consistent, I'm not building skyscrapers. Boise-cascade also has some free beam calc software available for anything questionable.
I've always was told to run 1/2" bolts with washers to truly get a good sister between the joists, those structures screws seems a bit undersized, but then again I'm not sure what code actually calls for
Yep, I've done that on a joist that was over notched a few times. Sandwich with 3/4" ply (per engineer) glued together and fastened with 1/2 in bolts with nuts and fender washers.
I've always used bolts and washers, at least 3/8", .... But I've never needed to sister anything anywhere near that long. I think even the longest was less than 8ft. .... To fix problems an idiot caused when old joists were inconveniently in the way for tub drains, so he cut out more than half the width. The next joist over he removed 4ft of joist _entirely_ to make room for toilet drains and the vent stack. He "replaced" the missing 2x8 joist with some 2x4s! 😲
It's 16' and I explained in other comments that this floor is also supported by a wall upstairs that's hung from oversized roof rafters. It's a cottage built in the 50s. It lasted this long before I added everything so we know it will perfectly fine without a support post in the dead center of the living room.
@@Tool_Addicted_Carpenter I was thinking the OP meant the center point of the new beam might sag just from the length. Maybe you screwed the ends and then moved the jack to the center to screw that beam in place?
It is great to see somebody that knows what there doing and how to do it properly kudos for your video and keep up the good work and the good instructions on how to do something. My problem I'm in this business for 50 years and I have nobody behind me that even knows a 3rd of what I know so what's the world gonna come to when I'm gone and you're gone but kudos for keeping up great work
I'm 29 so I haven't done it long,17 years now. Older guys psyche out the young guys by telling them they don't want to be carpenters, get a comfy desk job, etc. It weeds out the weak, but it's been counterproductive. We need workers. We have nail guns and multi tools now, it's an easier world. Some softy's can handle it.
Looks good 👍 as making it literally beefier... but, I did notice that the new sistered joist is only supported; the cut opening, on one side. 🤔 ... however, i also realized that the doubled beam does have a joist hanger on the end. Good job bro.
@@Acme12345 You must be trolling. This is an on the fly add-on for a little additional strength that wasn't even required by a structural engineer. I chose to do this myself free of cost and it's more than adequate. Feel free to watch other videos of this build involving the support of the vaulted ceiling. I think you'll find that you're being extremely dramatic for absolutely no reason.
@@Acme12345 is correct at least for our building dept. Ours says anything structural other than the studs (up to certain height) must be syp. I understand this is remodel but new construction, building inspection would fail us for sure
oh yeah i just bought a right angle cordless because of working around joist. might only NEED to use it a couple times a year but use it all the time doing stuff between joists simply because its more ergonomic and reach.
I bought my right angle M12 for some steel cable stair rails. Thing is a gem. The torque is very impressive. Needed to drill a 2 1/2" holesaw through a triple stud and nothing else fit. It was scorching hot and produced that oh so familiar burning plastic smell but she got it done and is still going strong.
Ya lol I think the person installing the subfloor wanted to try out their new nailer. I used a grinder to cut a bunch of nails but mostly a sawzall. Must've cut well over 1000 nails.
Nice to see it done properly! In the UK we would be required to use 12mm coach bolts and star washers staggered every 300mm or so for the full length, is this the same in the US? And yeah similarly to you, regs would say that should be a double flitch or RSJ.
the temp base for your post should span perpendicular to the floor joists below, no parallel. You're only using one joist to prop up the whole ceiling above...
A double is plenty tbh. But I like to cut those out if they are sagging and use a real 4x6 or a lvl. Works wonders. Nice job brother. I usually do this in crawl spaces it's hell
Finally seeing y'all coming together engaging up in here like the skills trades men we always admired. Because I don't know not try to but respect my Gs. But the comments sections on FB and Tik Tok of these types of tradesman's platforms are toxic AF and just down on each other form what I see most of the time. lol 😂
I'm not on FB or Tik Tok but if I don't have anything nice to say I usually don't say anything, so I don't always understand people's need to criticize harshly. With that said, there are certain aspects of construction that do deserve criticism. Structural work done improperly can be hazardous and does deserve criticisms. Hack work in general is tough to overlook because there is a lot of information out there for people to reference to make sure they're doing things properly. A lot of people have an inflated sense of capabilities which is never seen if they don't post things online of their shotty work. The mentality behind critical comments is actually interesting because a lot of people get a dopamine rush when they post argumentative comments. So basically some people get a high from thinking they're right and letting everyone know and some people get a high from being in arguments. The reality is that it's construction, not brain surgery, so if they waste time and energy just to feel superior in a trade, then they have very little in their lives that they're proud of. Thanks for watching Ivan.
You could put a string on it. Jack up the middle and add 6 inch wide by 1/8" thick A36 steel along the sides. Use 2 Simpson hex head screws every 3 feet or less evenly throughout the span.
We were doing a plumbing remodel for a customer the other day at a huge home. She wanted the toilet relocated to the other side of the bathroom. No prob. We start demo and fine a steel plate like you mention. Except it’s 1” thick and 9” wide. Thickest one I’ve ever seen!
I was building a 3 story condo in Mississippi A crew screwed up on a 3 story and put the beams in different spots on every floor. Of course the tops floor was sagging. We cut those notices and the engineer made us take it all down and start over without the notch
Are you saying that tiny notch I put on the beam impacted the overall integrity? It was entirely seated on the top plate and beam. Everything lined up. I have a video showing the weight distribution to the basement where I dug a sonatube to hold this.
@@Tool_Addicted_Carpenter I do not. We fought that engineer tooth and nail. We cut them on both sides and we also had 4 beams per area to put in. All nailed together. He would not pass it unless we removed all beams with notches. The beams were roughly 25ft long and we cut about a 4icnh notch.
@@Tool_Addicted_Carpenter I was telling you a story of a job I was on. I don't think my reply was written so that someone could understand that. I wasn't taking a shot at you
I like to use a foam adhesive esp when sistering with a new-growth softwood. This will help spread the load off of the bolts. Also, countersink the bolt with a washer. Better still to thru bolt rather than lag screws if possible
These new age fasteners will never budge. I know where you're coming from but if we're honest with ourselves, this place stood for 70 years without reinforcement. I did this for free and it's probably superficial.
@@Tool_Addicted_Carpenter Yeah, Ive done a bunch of work on 2-3 flats in Chicago which were built 120+ years ago. Often repairs are required due to floor being exposed to the elements for years (e.g. after a fire) in which case, there may be 3-4 joists that are compromised and need to handle static loads as well as dynamic.
@@stringlarson1247 Good stuff. I did a remodel in Weymouth Mass a couple years ago that was built in the 1860s. I actually printed and framed a pic of the house with some Ford Model Ts out front for the homeowners. Sistered all the 2x8s in the basement with 2x10s. The past plumber butchered all the 2x6s on the 1st floor and some hack dormered a bathroom with a cast tub upstairs. Was sagging 3". I sistered all the 2x6s with 2x8s and had my plumber run a clean waste line between joists so nothing was compromised. Ended with only a 1/2" sag that wasn't even noticable after plaster. So satisfying. Keep up the good work brother.
@@Tool_Addicted_Carpenter prolly not a plumb or square line from which to start. I have perverse love of working on these old places. Plus I get to use my full vocabulary.
@@stringlarson1247 Nothing is ever straight in those old remodels lol. The walls were 1/2"-2" out of plumb on everything. I reframed a lot because it was mostly T&G sheathing with horizontal studs providing no real structure. I ripped a ton of full height wedges to straighten everything. The new homeowners were planning on it being a temporary home but after everything was done they love it. I've been back after this remodel for various upgrades to their garage and basement total over $60k, so a pretty substantial investment after a $160k remodel. I'm going back soon to do the windows on their porch. I love making a house a home. I wish I could share my website on here so you could see all the work, but I don't want to be inundated with spam.
Sistering that joist is a good bandaid but damn that's a hell of a long unsupported run. There must have been a load bearing wall there at some point before some flipper decided to undermine the load transfers, right? Short of steel I beams/glulam replacement, would the next best thing be posts?
@@Tool_Addicted_Carpenter ah. I was literally thinking while writing the above, "i wonder how many cracks are appearing in the drywall with every pump on the jack." I can only imagine how bad the cracks would be if suddenly the entire house was straightened out. Even sheeting under the shingles could suddenly be out of square. It's such a drag... the 2x6 placed on the floor aligned with the floor joists seems to be in the exact spot of the missing load bearing wall.
Nothing is overkill my friend. There was a 2x3 added next to this that was glued to this joist and the subfloor to receive some recessed T&G, so technically it's glued as well as the lags.
That's the very dangerous reality of using bottle jacks. You really need to go slow. Things settle over decades and they need to be lifted over time. If I'm picking up a heavy load I generally do it over the course of many days. You need to allow things to reset themselves and allow nails to pop. That's why we hear all those creaks and pops while we lift structures. It's a slow process. I've never blown a 4x4 apart but I have had a whaler spring out of place during a lift. We're both lucky no one was hurt.
@@Ben-mv9xc Good to hear you're getting into the trade. Don't worry about being slow. We all start somewhere. I'll do my best to post some common cuts I use the multi tool for and how I keep them accurate.
Won't that 3rd 2x6 just sag with the other two, as they are already compromised. The problem is that it's just another pine 2x6. Using LVL would be a better fix, as it could do the job even without the existing timbers.
It didn't correct the sag, it strengthened the existing joists. That's why I titled it the way I did and mentioned the flitch plate and larger joist at the end of the video.
You would have a field day in my 100 yr old house. Not a level surface, perpendicular wall or 90° angle anywhere in the building. It has 2 redeeming features though. 2 layers of tongue and groove hardwood boards running at 45° to each other really stiffen the floor. Also, the original structural wood members are actually 2×8s and 2×4s measuring 2"×8" and 2"×4" when measured
I see that more often than you'd think. I joke that it's structural T&G. It's not. I did a house a while back where every wall and ceiling was over 2" out. I couldn't straighten everything so I pulled some lines and cut some wedges so everything looked proper. We're not just carpenters, we're illusionists lol
Yessir. I used them a lot more in the past when I didn't have a positive placement nailer but they're still useful in a tight spot. Simpson makes hanger screws to so a right angle drill/impact will get into tight spaces as well.
Why do many localities and people prefer that these be through bolted? At work doing general remodeling and water restoration, sometimes we also have to sister a joist or beam, running it from a bearing point to a bearing point. When they are originally installed, I believe they are just nailed. But when installed after, some insist on bolts as well. Do you have any insight on that by chance? I figured with steel it would make sense, but otherwise it seems odd.
I agree that it's odd. Most things are engineered in a "cover your ass" type of way where overkill is expected and good isn't good enough. No one wants anything to fall back on them if there's a failure, especially if their stamp is on it. These days everything is engineered to be much much stronger than it really needs to be. You can watch the channel "engineering hub" to get a little insight into this. Basically they use the absolute weakest point of the weakest board of an entire species in order to determine their maximum expectations of the type of material. Essentially it comes down to the old saying that you're only as strong as your weakest link. In all truth it is absolutely incredible what wood can hold and things fall very very slowly. Even with these undersized Floor joists set over 70 years ago there isn't a doubt in my mind that they would hold a small vehicle. Meanwhile new code would call for 2x10s for this particular span. Hangers and bolt requirements have gotten out of hand, same with insulation requirements. But here's the harsh reality- when they're writing the code book requirements, they ask Simpson, the makers of the hangers, how many hangers we need for a structure. Now obviously Simpson is going to advise as many as possible because they have everything to gain by making the product that they sell a mandatory thing. Same with the insulation requirements. They asked Owens Corning what they think we need for insulation. Now we're either using 2x12s for every roof rafter to fit the required R49 or we're forced to use spray insulation. There's an unknown and unnecessary level of politics surrounding building practices and it trickles down to effecting the overall price that a customer receives and then ultimately whether or not we get the job because they might think it's too expensive.
I needed the ceiling joists to remain coplaner for finishes so straightening this joist entirely would've caused problems. Spruce is a lot more common in my area so I worked with what was available. I wasn't going to special order a yellow pine 2x6 for a 16' span that would have made a trivial difference overall. There is a wall above the double that's hanging off of this triple so I used some extra blocking in the rafters as well as some larger fasteners and hangers so that the roof would assist with holding up this span. This was all done for free because the ceiling wasn't exposed before the quote was given and I never charge extras. Small potatoes in the overall scheme of adding a second floor to a home. Thanks for watching.
Sometimes I wish I was a guy so I could've gone into carpentry. I love this type of thing but I don't have the physical strength that some of it entails. So satisfying to watch
That's good to hear that you're interested in carpentry. If you wanted to get into it as a hobbyist you could be selective in your projects. There are all sorts of small builds that you can tackle with minimal tools. Home Depot and Lowes both sell wood that's pre-cut to fit into the trunk of a car or SUV. Feel free to ask any questions about projects or tools. There are a lot of great content creators geared towards that type of woodworking. Thanks for watching.
even after tripling this joist, it's still not strong enough. In my house I was wondering why one floor was bouncy, only to discover it was 2x6's, nearly 12' long.
Glue and nail a 5/8 piece of plywood cut the same size and length as your support 2 x on both sides and lag in place. Plywood will triple the strength and prevent sagging.
I agree that plywood helps but I wasn't trying to bring the sag entirely out of this. I needed it to remain coplaner with the rest of the joists. It was also a 16' span, so if I used plywood I would only be able to run an 8' in the center and two 4's at the ends. It would've added some strength but it wouldn't have been continuous either way.
Yep, does not matter stagger the plywood from side to side. I built many structures this way. One old green wood building had a major sag. We put the floor close with jacks the glued and screwed the plywood to the sister joists. Some of the badly sagged old joists were cut (most of the way across) to remove the sag. We left them in place and sistered with 2x and 5/8 ply. No more sag and no more bounce. The old wood was chestnut, hand planned... Ah back in the day. I enjoyed your video very much. Thank you
Less jack kick out if you put the jack on top of the block. Tie the jack off with wire so if it does kick out it doesn’t knock you in the head. Think about it when you jack up a truck do you put the block on top of the jack or do you put the jack on the block. I used to straighten barn when I was younger.
I've gotten this comment a few times but I'll never put a heavy jack on top of a post. Everyone should always level their posts and screw it to the stop block or joists. I've never had an issue in my 12 years. If I drop a heavy jack on hardwood flooring it would be a pretty expensive fix.
@@torrycole6477 My bottle jacks all have holes drilled in the bases to screw them down and reduce any chance of kick-out. I've also built some custom bases to slide my jacks into and lock the jacks into place for heavy loads. I've never had an issue. This was an extremely light load so it wasn't a concern. I still have a tough time putting a heavy jack above my head but I can respect that practice.
So is the beam supporting the structure or the structure is holding up the beam? If there are no support pillars, seems lile the structure is holding up the beam...
Depends on what's above you. If it's open floor then that's not a concern. If there's a wall above you that transfers the weight to the rafters then it will jack up the rafters as well. Sometimes that's a good thing. That's why when you pick up heavy loads you do it over the course of a few days or even a couple weeks. You need to let the nails pop and allow things to reset themselves. Most of the time I'm not just jacking up one joist so I run a header across the bottom of all the compromised joists and use 2-3 jacks depending on the span. I always say that shit falls slow, so it needs to be picked up the same way. If you have a few stories and you are potentially impacting the floor upstairs, you can actually cause doors to start operating incorrectly. If that's the case, I would go upstairs and cut some drywall out ~2' up, snap a line across the bottoms of my studs, cut the studs, and jack up until the bottom plate touches the studs. Solutions vary dramatically and the age of the house and the amount of settling plays a big part.
@@Tool_Addicted_Carpenter Great response! Thank you! The floor and ceiling are both open. The house is on stilts not piers. There’s two double wood beams holding up a 16’ span between the two double beams. Both beams are 17’ 8” notched on one end to join an additional 12’ double beam. Beams are milled 2X12’s. Built in 1970, there’s sagging and settling of the beams so my plan is to pour concrete grade beams with a slab in some areas. Jack only part of the house up to the height of the rest of the home and set it down on 2X6 walls but that may not fix the sagging roof although it could considering the beams have noticeable sagging where the roof sags. The interior is a gable ceiling so if necessary, I figure I could support the floor under the home and jack up the roof beam from inside, put some clips on the rafters to tie them onto the wall bringing to today’s code. But, I am not an expert!🤷♂️ Glad you mentioned going up gradually though. That is good advice.👍
Been doing termite repairs underneath houses with screw jacks, I use the same process. Just a different jack, what is that one called? It would be easier under houses
Screw jacks are a pain in the ass. This is a big red 20 ton bottle Jack. I don't recommend this brand. They don't seat on their own when you release the pressure. They were only $40ea online so that's why. I would say go for a 6-12 ton and spend $80-150ea made in USA. I've had really good luck with my lighter weight jacks seating properly after pressure is taken off.
I screw the tops of my posts into my stop blocks so they never move if something goes wrong. I personally trust having the jack at the base a little more than the top. They're pretty heavy and would wreck the hardwood floor if they fell. I definitely understand what you mean though.
You put that piece of lumber in upside down. All dimensional lumber is cut with a crown that goes on top. That way when it’s loaded it straightens out.
