A few small corrections: Daemon Prince can't take Ulocca the Black - they can't be undivided! The Word Bearers can buff accursed cultists with a re-roll hits strat (I think I said extra AP or something!)
I personally think Chaos Bikers are extremely underrated. Being T5 W3 (they're also core) combined with the Blackrune (-1 to wound) on a big squad provides for a very nasty fast-moving threat. Watching bolters wound me on 6s and Lascannons wound me on 4s is always alot of fun. Running them as Tzeentch plus icon can be pretty good with Daemon shells for 1 CP to get AP-2 Bolters but I prefer Khorne plus icon for a bucket of S5 AP-2 attacks. In terms of Legions, they probably are best in Red Corsairs but I run them in Black Legion in order to get plus +1 to hit as I speed up to vehicles or characters and dump meltas into them. Black Legion also has a strat to temporarily give a unit another Legion trait so incase you want to advance and charge you can. Very nice unit, I just wish Chaos Lords on Bikes weren't in Legends but I always take one if I'm allowed.
Bikes are my all star unit In Black Legion. Absolute blenders with Abaddon's rerolls since you get more value from it due to having lots of attacks in shooting AND melee. However I think special weapons are a trap. With Daemon Shells you've got a 14" moving platform that shoots at 30" away. You utilise this range to be able to rain AP -2 bolter fire with full rerolls from across the board whilst keeping them safe from counter charges. They basically hover around your deployment zone shooting down range and using them as a counter-charge unit for anything that dares to get too close. My go-to loadout is a full squad of 9, mark and icon of tzeentch and nothing but bolters and chainswords. So far they melt absolutely everything that isn't T8.
Man, those Warptalons make me wish we Orks had Stormnobz. Fast Attack is easily the best section in our codex already, but that is to be expected from Codex Orks - after all, it is a section for things that are fast and attack, the two most fun things for an ork.
I found myself using Traitor Guardsmen a lot with my Iron Warrior monoterminator army. They fill up nicely the Troop slots than Legionaires (leaving more points for the 3 Terminator anvils) and work better than simple Cultists for the cannon fodder stratagem due to their 5+ armour and +1 Lds. I'm still looking into making this concept competitively viable... gotta experiment a bit more.
I'm looking at doing something very similar myself. I've got about 30x cultists now, and about 20x traitor guardsmen. Aiming to get the number up to about 40x each, and support a hardcore terminator mob
@@Mafowler717 they were a downloadable datasheet from a Warhammer community article a whild back. If you search for kill team traitor guard 40k datasheet you'll likely find them. 😎
@@antongrigoryev6381 yes. Why do marines wearing tactical dreadnought armour get 2+, 4++/5++ and dreadnoughts just get 3+. Helbrutes would be a lot more viable with a 2+ save or an invulnerable
@@rtl97 I have same questions since start of my Wh40k adventure.... I guess dreadnoughts are too easy of a targets and they get -1 damage, more wounds and more toughness for that, easier to hit but harder to destroy. Terminators are like small pebbles while dread is like a concrete wall, an explosion will break wall but only scatter pebbles
Maybe it has to do with the durability of the person piloting the armor? If a shot goes through a terminator’s armor, the otherwise healthy space marine might walk it off. If a shot goes through the Dreadnought’s casket and hits the sealed in marine who’s already close to death’s door, they’ll probably need to find that Dreadnought a new pilot.
@@rtl97 As far as I know, despite being called "Tactical Dreadnought Armor", Terminator armor has basically nothing in common with Dreadnoughts. It is a totally different thing that happens to be better-armored.
On the topic of CSM... In the warp, Alpharius was split into Alpharius and Omegon. Growing up, Alpharius learned to hone his gift. It allowed him to make himself invisible in a figurative sense as people would see him as a normal person instead of a Primarch. When Omegon was found by Alpharius, they decided to not tell anyone to add to the fuckery and tom-foolery of the Alpha Legion. Thus Omegon was also known as Alpharius and Alpharius was also known as Omegon to keep the secrecy. During the Horus Heresy, Rogal Dorn and Alpharius who was actually Omegon had their Primarch Duel and Dorn fucking bodies Omegon who was posing as Alpharius. Following this, Omegon who was actually Alpharius renamed himself to Alpharius in honor of Alpharius who was actually Omegon because he was killed by Dorn. Thus Alpharius who was Omegon who was actually Alpharius fights with the name Alpharius in honor of Alpharius who was actually Omegon who was just pretending to be Alpharius.
Just wanted to say I absolutely love your voice and video quality auspex. I'm trying to figure out how to build my night lords army and as always you're right on time
Yeah, if you're a melee legion, you made out pretty well in this codex. If you're anyone else then you're gonna struggle a bit more. Internal balance is better than loyalist marines, but CSM do have quite a few units that are fairly lackluster. It's very clear that this would've been a stronger codex if it had come out before Nephilim. So many exciting things in here that you're just not gonna have the CP for.
Certainly will try and get round to it! Might be a 'Start Collecting' style video for them first though. I suspect Tyranids are next up for the 'Strengths and Weaknesses' series
@@auspextactics thanks can you do the Genestealer cults next or is there another army ur doing If vashtorr eightbound or jackals release early please give that video priority above the Genestealer cult strengths and weaknesses video
The Helbrute is bad in any configuration, but I disagree about the ranged option being preferable. Best thing to do with it is double fists and just advance every turn until you get into melee: that solves the speed problem. And with fists you can also take a pair of heavy flamers, so you can use the Fire Frenzy stratagem to shoot at the closest target if it gets shot at. Best way to have your cake and eat it, you still get to shoot something with 2d6+4 shots while moving faster up the table. Alternately: just don't take a Helbrute.
@@szalailaszlovid This guy gets it. Legionaries can work in something like CoB against low save armies. When you can no-cp transport them in rhinos and just wreck light targets. But why would you spend 4 cp to make them semi-work. Also fight twice means your enemy can 2cp disrupt combat or fight first combat so this just isn't a good deal imo.
@@szalailaszlovid To clarify, I'm not saying those strats are entirely why I think they're underrated, just that I like them. I think within particular legions, you get some interesting combos. With IW, Tzeentch Icon marines with 1 CP get Ap -2 bolters that ignore cover. Emperor's children can get power fists and heavy chainaxes to hit on 2s , or you can run them as Khorne in word bearers for the rerolls to hit and the S9 breakpoint. The fight twice strat can offer extra value if you've given them any buffs, plus a bit of extra out of phase movement with pile in and consolidate. I won't lie and say they're S tier or a must take unit hence, "𝘢 𝘣𝘪𝘵" underrated, I just think they can hit harder than expected on a legion by legion basis.
@@szalailaszlovid yes. The sergeant with the power fist gets x2 strength, and the marine with the heavy chainaxe gets +4. Khorne mark marines get +1 strength on charge, which brings both up to 9. They're -1 to hit though, so wordbearers are best for them imo.
Land Raiders have a place in IW, they are a legit option there (as machine spirit units they benefit from the -1 to wound strat, while being t9 and no wound re-rolls against you in IW). I wouldn't underestimate Decimators with double claws with the double flamers, they can also be nasty. Also, all forms of Cult marines are core, so they benefit from a lot of buffs.
I'm really glad you said this because I've been thinking something similar with IW. I think the LR is divisive I'm 40k. Lots of people see it as a waste of points and some see it as a perfectly good vehicle. Maybe it's down to play style. It's just so damn tough and the cannons really are pretty good.
So what I heard was: Terminators are good. There are almost no valid ranged options. Some of the legions seem to have a range focus that doesn't work because there aren't too many decent ranged options. All in all: Play Emperor's Children, Black Legion or Word Bearers.
legionaries can get a butt load of ap-1 bolter shots with a tzeentch icon that also lets them ignore the first failed save they take in your turn and your opponents which negates a plasma mishap in your turn.
I'm new to playing 40k. Been in the lore and build/paint on and off for a long time These videos are so damn helpful for learning to make fun, fluffy and capable lists. Cheers AT.
Agree with most of this. Bikers can be a 7 against certain armies in the right situation with some synergy. Dark Apostle is definitely 10 for word bearers. I feel like they did the Chaos codex really well, and although it was frustrating not getting a steam-roller period after codex release that most other armies got, i'm glad it appears to be pretty well balanced at the moment. I'd like to see Obliterators less random for their points cost. I think raptors should get the option to take an icon to make them tempting vs warp talons, seems dumb chosen get it and not raptors. I think bikes should be knocked down to 25 points. All of the demon engines, forgeworld and vehicles need a significant points reduction to be worth considering competitively, like 10-20%. The venomcrawler is really the only one you'd want to bring currently, chiefly because they are cheap, fast and require a fair amount of fire to remove. I'd also like my 3D6 charge out of deep strike back for my Night Lords and the promised +1 to advance and charge so that both my legion traits aren't situational and completely useless against most armies, but that's probably never gonna happen..
52:50 I like to imagine Lucius listening to this video, getting to that point and running out of the room crying into Abbadon's shoulder "Its okay Lucy, its okay. What did the bad man say to you" "he said that I wasnt prreetttttyyyyyyyyyy(Inconsolable sobbing)" And so the fourteenth black crusade was launched.
It is still annoying that they gave CSM significant limitations to melee weapon options... Legionnaires should have access to 1pt chainswords that can be taken with bolter and boltpistol. Also the limitations to special and heavy weapons is very dumb, having ability to bring 2 of same special- or heavy weapon was pretty much because they cannot combat squad, thus risk blast. But now if you really want 2 same guns, you rather go MSU. Terminators, Chosen and Unit Champions should have access to Lightning Claws atleast and have freedom to choose melee weapons... And they should have given CSM leaders access to improved Daemon Mounts. But no, CSM leaders are as rigid as Death Guard, minus the special Terminators...
My biggest problem with CSM is that I'm like a little kid in a candy store and always feel the need to give all my units marks and icons and everything
You can run a list with 10 termies, 10 chosen and 10 possessed plus bikes for a hell of a lot of 3 wound models on table. Also a Sorcerer in termie armour: Sorcerer in Terminator Armour [7 PL, 135pts, -1CP]: Chaos Familiar, Combi-melta, Death Hex, Force sword, Mark of Slaanesh, Stratagem: Relic, Veilbreaker Plate, Warptime run a 10 man Rubric squad with 9 warp flamers and teleport them with the Vielbreaker in turn one behind enemy lines and literally let the enemy burn 🔥
I personally would put a base maulerfiend up to a 7. The magma cutters and fists make them (in my opinion/experience) great for killing elite things like terminators and vehicles. Having access to the deamonengine buffs make it so that your opponent needs to quite often soak more points into them at ranged to take them down, points not going to other things. if they do drop in a go, you spent 140 which isn't very much at all. Also Defilers can do the smoke launcher strat as well as deamonengine strats which is why I feel they are higher costed (though to be fair I agree with your scoring). Other then that, great video and I agree with most points!
To my knowledge you can't run a Daemon Prince with Ulocca the Black, as they aren't Chaos Undivided. But yeah ive been running one with Ghollax quite a bit and he's an absolute nightmare.
Can second this. Heretic Astartes Demon Prince has to choose an allegiance because of the "Daemonic Allegiance" rule on his datasheet. "Ulocca the Black" is for Chaos Undivided units only.
Been switching between Ghollax and running mine as my old jump pack night lord with lightning claws, taking Claws of the Stygian count and flames of spite. Can buff himself with daemonic strength for A10, S11, AP-3, D2! Ate most of a squad of 10 Berserkers the other a day.
@@tomamies1654 Also a good relic for him is INTOXICATING ELIXIR which has a 1 time use that gives you D3 additional attacks and you cannot lose more than 3 wounds this phase. You charge something you most likely can't kill in 1 turn of combat but most likely in 2 turns of combat, then you pop the relic for additional attacks, if he lives he can only do 3 damage in return and in HIS fight phase you will be the one attacking first to finish him of. If he dies you can probably consolidate into the next enemy unit, who then gets to swing at you for free but you still don't lose more than 3 wounds and can wipe it in HIS turn. As you suggested add FLAMES OF SPITE for good measure ;)
I really like Helbrutes on Emperors Children. Those Sonic Blasters are just crazy and they have Melee to back it up. Not a must pick but they're awesome for units just behind the front lines
Run cheap troops. (Minimum Cultists and legionaries squads) Max out on HQs and Elites. Check for cool and effective relic, trait, Mark and wargear combos. Start there. Then fill out the rest of your list. To compliment your HQs and elites.
Abaddon is really powerful, ive faced him twice on the tabletop, and ive done at most 4 damage to him, and that was due to my Ravenwing Champion charging and a stray shot. The Wardogs with him is quite scary, and with my incomplete Dark Angels force, I have lost many battles, but learned more from those losses to know how to play better. I will have his model dead before Azrael and Ezekiel.
I wouldn't call Abaddon's "multi-phase dmg" a weakness :D I mean, that's your only option to kill him before the game ends... It's like saying that a dreadnoughts "weakness" is the Hammerhead.
My personal issue with the Venomcrawler is that it's not exactly great for psychic. It's meant to be a fast moving thing, and sorcerers move no more than 6", unless you're using the old rules
@@gavinziozios1431 You wont have to do it EVERY turn. Your assumption relies on the fact that you'd be moving a full 12" every turn with the Venomcrawler. It is however, not super reliable. Not the worst though.
@@johndoe-cv1gv Considering the strengths of the Venomcrawler, I probably would be trying to get it where it needs to go as fast as possible. The only case I wouldn't do that is if I was treating it as part of a firing line, like a forgefiend
I have one in a deathball - Master of Possession and a Sorceror (smites and witchfire) go sprinting up the board, hiding behind a brick of 10 Possessed. Venomcrawler supports them with some shooting, the melee threat, and the psychic buff. When the Possessed brick gets low on dudes, I make sure to push that Venomcrawler onto an objective or into enemy lines for a good boom opportunity.
I would love to see a quick video sometime on the Forge World options for the different factions I feel like maybe those could be turned out with a little less effort? As there aren't that many of them you know nothing super fancy like this just a quick rundown about a minute or so per Forge World option
Love it exalt champion dark commune. Enforcer and Ogryn traitor guardsmen. Accursed cultist's and cultist's. Leman Russ tank's and a Bainblade. Sounds like a good army. 💯😈👌
I've recently dug my army out after a multi year hiatus from it all and i am very excited to play with all my ancient models against the new stuff that is out now and expect just as many wtf is that to be asked between me and the new players but holy crap the cost of everything is borderline absurd a freaking codex was 20$ back when I played and the rule book was like 40$
If you had 75 points would you get 3 chaos spawn or 1x accursed cultist 5x mutants 3x torment. Terminators hold mid with DA and MoP and venomcrawler. If DA and terminators advance the spawn or accursed hold mid.
Looking at the slaves to darkness box set, I like the minis but don't play AOS. Any chance anybody knows if those are gonna be/ be part of the new Vangaurd box set for Chaos?
@@shuwan4games Thats what I was afraid of. Though, The IG preview for their combat patrol being pretty much just the minis in their launch box does give me some hope.
I love your full faction breakdown videos, but it's a bit silly to see basically everything ranked 5/10 or better, some units are just bad, and 5/10 doesnt seem to accurately show the difference in power level. The most frustrating examples would be the Chaos Knights or Drukhari videos.
I do get that quite a bit. With these I try and reserve the lower tiers for things that are truly terrible / unusable like the gellerpox here due to the detachment rules. I'd argue most of the Drukhari codex is very usable (or not far behind the best stuff), hence the high ratings. I know it'd not to everyone's taste though, just trying to explain my logic behind it.
@@auspextactics I've had this thought too about not many being ranked lower than 5, but I ended up realising that there probably just aren't many units that are in between being mediocre and just plain terrible. Also it's easy to think you're just giving a 1 - 10 rating based solely on the codex you're reviewing (in which case not having anything between 1 and 5 would make no sense), but you're actually rating compared to all units in the game if I'm not mistaken, so that changes things.
Man, Chaos has a lot of choices to go with, huh? I guess I need more research before I even start an army of my own - Chaos Undivided, of course! Many thanks for posting this! m(_ _)m
I love it when videos tell the world that heldrakes are poor choices and that daemon engines are mediocre. More of this please! The world needs to hear it!! ….it means less people field lists like mine, less people expect it, and it will continue to wreck face!! (Insert evil laugh here) Seriously though, heldrakes are incredibly useful models - especially when used in pairs. They can’t really be ignored m
You (and I) love Chaos more than GW does. I think you overestimate most units. 9s or 10s aside, on which i agree, i d had rated the units 1-2 Points lower especially the Dark Commune which is the worst unit in the codex, because its cant provide any meaningful buffs, is squishy, slow and half of their buffs target the worst unit avaible to you.
I REALLY got an itch to make an Alpha Legion army as my second army. They've got the best relics and some really fun and uncanny stratagems. Sadly, the armies strength lies in melee. While everything about Alpha Legion wants you to stay at arms reach. I decided to hold off and am instead getting into Space Dwarves. Which matches my Fyreslayers for AoS. If there was just a bit more quality shooting to dip into for CSM. I would have loved to of built an Alpha Legion army.
A cool concept that im currently toying with alpha legion is accursed cultist spam. 5 full strenght squads with all the buffing relics the alpha legion brings makes for a huge obsec hard to shift tide of mutants. I want to support them with small units of chosen and havoks( i think auspex underestimates them, tough, no penalty for move and shoot with heavy, and the sargeant can pack a strong punch in melee.) In alpha legion u are also able to fall back and shoot with them.
A common misconception is that Alpha legion wants to stay at range--they're actually quite fine moving into melee! Their strength actually lies in keeping them safe until they get there. Or at least that's what I'm told. I wouldn't know, I just play Space Marines, hail the corpse-emperor! I mean the Emperor. Yes. That.
@@alexanderhoclippiunus7644 Their -1 to hit at range does help them survive a turn 1 shooting phase from the likes of Tau and Votaan. But, most armies in 9th are geared towards melee. And an Alpha Legion army that moves into melee against literally any other Chaos factions melee; will lose. They need to lean into doing the pewpew for as long as possible. And then have counter-melee units on standby. They're general tactic is to hold one side of the board and weather enemy ranged while reciprocating with their own. THEN, they use deepstrike in the enemies back line to do secondary shenanigans in their deployment zone. After the enemy has advanced into the mid-field.
@@keldor8302 that's all true! But saying that Alpha Legion is geared solely towards shooting is incorrect, no? I mean, if you're engaging against armies geared towards melee and you meet them there--you'll lose, yes! I mean, again, I just play normal, loyal, non-traitorous space marines. I wouldn't know so I assume you have the right of it, you being a traitorous scoundrel and all.
hottake: warp talons are the most overrated unit in full codex they cost just the same as possessed, but have worse S, worse T, worse W, damage output is about 2 times worse in average 1 thing is better is M but difference of 3 inch movement should not be a trade off for this stats disadvantage
Can you do a video on Forgeworld range? can be generic or specific like say for space marines or militarum only. haven't seen a Forgeworld vid in a while
Question regarding forge world options. Battlescribe shows something called a Rapier Carrier which seems interesting for only 75 points and 12 heavy bolter shots or 3 anti -tank shots. How would you rate that unit in say a iron warriors or alpha legion list?
@@loganrichardkaduce7230 Yeah I'm just thinking as back range support its half as much as Havocs so its quite tempting. I can't find much info on it though.
Ah my mistake, think I got a little confused regarding the melee buff just remembered they had something nice for cultist melee. Seems its a re-roll hits strat and a 'wanton slaughter' warlord trait! Thanks for the correction.
I must admit I think a few of your rankings are a bit off on this one. Particularly the legionnaires. For a codex with as limited obsec as CSM they're essential. Plus with strats and the melee legions they actually hit really hard for their points. I think they're easily a 10/10
Legionnaires are just average. You can equip them to be decent but they start to become expensive. You are still better off just getting cultists and saving the points for harder hitting units than Legionnaires
@@thegorefatherdonkhorneleon5159 it's not about output. I was just saying it was respectable. It's about obsec. Unless you're iron Warriors or black legion you have no obsec besides the troops section and cultists simple can't go and aggressively take objectives away from the innocent in the mid field.
So is now a good time to start a Word Bearers Army? A friend of mine is new to 40k and really wants to start a Word Bearers army. How should I advise her?
I'm fucking sick of terminators. I wish they'd make the other stuff "acceptable" to play because every SM/CSM is some form of terminator spam, or pseudo-terminator spam like Bladeguard vets.
