Is the brain a just a moist, room temperature quantum computer?! *What was your favorite takeaway from this conversation?* _Please join my mailing list to get _*_FREE_*_ notes & resources from this show! Click_ 👉 briankeating.com/list
Consider colors. It is not colloquial to describe colors in terms of angstroms, wavelengths, frequencies, intensity, energy. So, we say the flower is blue, very blue, light blue. The brain collapses the wave function of ADJECTIVES and goes with the resultant value. Is that quantum, or quantum flapdoodle? Maybe if I throw in a slash aitch?
The brain is full of thermal noise which would be bad news for a quantum computer. Neuroscientists haven't found any evidence that their models of neuron function need to be augmented with quantum mechanics. I think the belief that there must be quantum computation in the brain comes from people who believe in both consciousness woo and quantum woo hoping that each kind of woo will support the other. Microtubules are part of the cytoskeleton of a eukaryotic cell; they help control the cell's shape and motion. They have existed for billions of years in organisms such as amoebas that have little need for "consciousness".
Thanks for having Stuart on. These ideas are what I live for. ORCH OR is THE most revolutionary idea of the 21st century. Every single aspect of life is understood through the models we use to approximate the lense of consciousness. Everything we shall ever accomplish of lasting significance is dependent upon us constructing a working model for what objective reality truly is. These are such fascinating times we just so happen to be living through! So much convergence is happening all around us, it's awe inspiring to watch. Thank you for making history happen Mr. Keating.
So we can agree that these models are created by our consciousness (being an inherent aspect at least), but we do not need this theory to conclude that, since that much was already evident: how we humans create models of reality. I wonder why you think it is then revolutionary?
@@Unidentifying brain function of creating a model of reality is different from understanding of nature of consciousness. e.g. consciousness helps to create a model of reality within the brain.
This was probably the best interview of Stuart I ever heard. Been following him for over 20 years and I have spoken to him at the university of Arizona a couple times in person. The “Integrated Information” theory is not a competing theory. All conscious experience is a combination of different modes of information at the most basic level because it involves all our senses. Just wanted to say that because the Inegrated information theory was actually first introduced in my own writings and in my 2003 book. When Tononi took the idea and made a mathematical model I saw it as largely symbolic because I meant instantaneous information integration not something calculated or calculable-to use Stuart’s terms. So that’s my own version of the integrated information idea. So many of the ideas in consciousness studies were anticipated by me before there even a consciousness convention in Tucson though. Even what we call today “The Binding Problem” was something I figured out from my own work and thinking back in 1987. You can see how the integrated information idea came from that in my own work. Anyway I wanted to say that this was the best most clear interview ever. I’m glad you stopped Stuart and had him explain some things and your questions were fantastic and so were the external questions you selected. Thank you so much!!! Answered a question I had for a long time.❤👍🏻 I really like the innovative idea of Stuart’s and Penroses. I think there is a lot more going on in the brain than meets the eye too. I don’t know if it’s correct but my 2003 book has a chapter on glial cells and Stuart began looking at them recently. With the light stuff “light pipes” etc. Also, my 2003 first book is all about how backward in time effects are absolutely necessary, so I am gratified he is talking about that too. Only I say necessary for everything, memory, life, matter… ya. My 2024 book I have been writing for 5 years actually has the answers to these things. A completely new paradigm for all research. I applied for a Templeton grant several times. They denied me 🤷♀️ I left graduate school in behavioral neuroscience and evolutionary psychology to write my first book but I overestimated the capabilities of academia to understand something truly new. Which is why I had to wait over 20 years for everyone to catch up. The work by Donald Hoffman was anticipated in my chapter on “going beyond our evolutionarily-limited world view” where I say and demonstrate exactly what he is working on. Theres many other people and examples too like Ian McGilchrist and a glial cell researcher at NIH who used a lot of my ideas in his book and papers. So many people. My new book is going to change the world forever. I took my experiences with my first book into account. You might see me on this RU-vid channel one day soon: 😊 So anyway thanks for this!!! ❤
Gosh, to hear that Templeton denied you... I'm sorry :( And yes, academia is absolutely awful. Just as you said: "I overestimated the capabilities of academia to understand something truly new." This is devastating but 100% true, unfortunately, and it goes against the very basic principles of science; it's as if we didn't learn anything about history of science... I hope everything's going well for you now! As a Psychology student interested in research, I'm curious about what are you working on now! ^^ + if you really had these ideas before all these people such as Donald Hoffman and others, it's truly amazing! Keep us updated! :) Have a nice day, kind regards from Spain!
@@minsungderstandings Thank you so much! It’s gotten so big it’s something I have stopped talking about or even trying to. It would take too much effort and time to change peoples minds. They cling to concepts like our ancestors clung to branches in trees. It is not lost on me that humans first instincts include a strong grasping reflex. Put a cortex on top of that and you have the symbolic “grasping of concepts”. It was extremely difficult to get humans to let go of trees, among many other things. Today it is the same. They climb into mind-trees. And they do not let go. Perhaps this is why the Buddha was enlightened under a Bodhi tree.? 😂👍🏻 Today, it still feels like death to let go. Some of the early researchers in quantum physics had an argument and when one of them, used to being smart, was shown to be wrong he shortly died thereafter… I have thought about such things a great deal. Other people talk about ego-the set of branches they cling to personally even in a non-academic sense. I’m out of my tree. For some reason, I always seem to have been. Why I am here now is becoming increasingly apparent 😊👁️ It has always felt like the zombie apocalypse to Me 👀🧟🤦♀️ with a few exceptions of course… I really just love all life and I want them to survive. It’s actually really important. It’s not just me. Thank you for your comment it was a great gift to me and I won’t forget it. Ever. Much love to you ❤️🔥🙏🏻 😊 I’m working on 2 books. One took the last seven years, and the other was just the last few weeks about human vision physiological considerations. Hard to use these terms because I redefine what language is and the assumptions built into human language is a barrier. So that’s why the books. I hope your studies are going well. What are you working on? I’m basically interested in everything 🤷♀️so don’t be shy ☺️
An amazing interview. So much to think on and look at from different direction. Thanks Dr. Keating for this interview with Stuart Hameroff. The science of the swing is something i will follow up on.
Good morning Brian and Stuart. Again interesting shared discussion. I remember about eighteen months ago connecting with a retired Medical professional and author, who had previously worked in anaesthetics. My goal was to expand my knowledge base and curiosity for science and health care. Including more so, consciousness memory and imagination. Was a fantastic opportunity and indeed a great all encompassing learning experience. Most grateful. 💜
Fascinating man and interview! I understand the tip of the iceberg of consciousness much better after that! It actually makes me feel more comfortable with challenging the mainstream ideas of emergence and the brain as a computer. It seems to sit nicely in between without going fully into pan psychism
Simply the best theory of consciousness yet. NO materialists theories come remotely close to getting the picture right. Bravo for having such an esteemed guest! It's an honor
@@student99bg The foundation of their theory has to do with QUANTUM processes within microtubules. It's much less "materialist" than outdated, reductionist theories about consciousness, which operate at FAR too large of a scale (the level of neurons). ORCH OR also leaves room for the possibility of survival of consciousness and even reincarnation, as Hameroff has spoken on many times. I encourage you to watch/read more of their work! Cheers bro!
@@CunningLinguistics Quantum physics is still physics. If you listen to people that promote spiritualism by pretending that quantum mechanics vindicates their nonsense then I feel sorry for you. You are listening to nonsense.
It sounds as though Brian’s theory falls into the paddock as a materialist/physicalist. Personally I’m drawn to Donald Hoffman Simulation theories & Bernardo Kastrums Idealist theories of Consciousness.
This man inspired me to go into the CRNA pathway, I was a little too old for med school lol, but we have the same interests, I’m working on a secondary degree in mathematics currently, all of his work is very abstract but intensely engaging.
Gotta love this man and appreciate the significance of what he is working on. With all the (academic) nonsense narratives out there, it may be hard for many to appreciate just how innovative and groundbreaking this field of quantum aspects in the brain is. The exact mechanics, we will have to take Stuart at his word, but the very thought there are quantum effects opens up human potential which even Stuart hasn't realized I guess. Lets take the basics of any motion / change in the quantum world; yes it has mass as the clock, but it also has energy as its grid (most clearly demonstrated at the so called 'quantum leaps' in atoms where electrons cross energy potential orbits which cost mass, not time (they are instant). So when we are taking about a quantum effect tin the brain, time is not relevant and indeed spacetime slices come in a reversed order (not a reversed arrow of time, as there is no time). But maybe even more essential; such processes happen in the energymass defined grid. Not in a spacetime (ST) grid. Which means a ST location is unimportant, as locality is defined in 3D energy vector space. If somehow ST local microtubules can organically fine tune (entangle) into an existing 3D energy grid of other identical shaped / energized microtubules, they are 'local' , no matter where they are in spacetime terms. This opens up the door to consciousness (in part) being a function of connections outside of the biological ST boundaries we observe. Goes for the human brain, but also goes for single cell organisms like e.g. Lacrymaria which display incredible complex behavior and consciousness (look for an Lacrymara video on RU-vid). Curious if Stuart has run tests on Anastasia of colonies of Lacrymaria and see how a nearby specimen is influenced. In a vertebrates' embryo I would focus on the pineal gland (being the first organ to form) and DMT as a kind of transistor filtering. We are just beginning. Time to tune in....
The brain does not superpose dimers. OrchOR's *biing* was discovered to be a start/stop of a gestalt resonance (over & under) which results in a counting space that can exploit Zeno dividability. This counting space prepares a geometric language much like a sum of phasors.
I think Dr. Hameroff would say... It is conscious! According to whatever proportion of microtubules it has, anyways. He states in this interview that even plants have some low level consciousness, so presumably a liver also has some low level consciousness. The digestive system is a better example: recent research has shown the digestive system has up to 600 million neurons, and a significant influence on our emotions and behavior which is not always in line with our more sentient or active conscious experience. Under ORCH OR, you could argue the digestive system is a competing lower level consciousness within the body.
thank you for covering the topic of grey matter as opposed to dark matter. how bout more on the subject of living matter ! the most complex matter in the universe and suddenly appeared 13.7 billion years after the big bang all while the universe is careening towards entropy. life, consciousness, observer ...
Would love to hwar what he has to say about two things: 1- the recent research which found that yes the microtublous do create quantum effect. 2- the gpt4o which can process in real time
Finally an scientific explanation of "consciousness" that I'm not only conscious of, but can understand! This was an excellent recap of the symposium which I attended. Congrats are in order to Hameroff and Penrose for truly changing the converssaion and motivating a substantive research in the field.
Very good interview with a knowledgeable guest. I particularly like what he said at the end of the conversation: If "... Consciousness is an intrinsic feature of the universe, connecting us through multiple layers down to the fundamental space-time geometry, that would kind of define our place in the universe and I think that would be important for not just practical reasons, medical reasons, but also spiritual reasons philosophical reasons, we would be connected. It would kind of change our outlook. On the other hand, if it turns out if it goes the other way and it's a emergent epiphenomenal process, then who cares." I think it would be helpful to discern the differences between Mind, Sentience, and Consciousness. The Mind can be active in various states, like Waking, and Dream, whereas it is mostly dormant in Deep Sleep. An important factor of Sentience is the activity of the Senses. In Deep Sleep and being under Anastasia, the person is in a real sense, less Sentient. When I close my eyes, block my ears, etc., I am temporarily "less sentient," though I am still equally alive and Conscious. Consciousness doesn't wake up or go to sleep, but the mind surely does.
Brave, creative, eloquent, courageous, admirable - both Penrose and Hameroff. Very glad they are not cancellable. How many other creative geniuses choose to stay silent under pressure from the establishment?
My second question nearer Profesor Emeritus Stuart Hameroff Home would be about Quantum Coherence. Anirban Bandyopadhyay concluded already in 2014 that his findings of Quantum Coherence in Single Microtubule should be considered as refutation of Decoherence as a Theory of how Classical reality emerges. Conclusion that was further strenghened after last year experiments. He himself seams to favour most either OR or Wigner-Stapp Interpretation. The advantage for consciousness of second would be to allow neurons, perhaps even entire brain regions and neural correlates to be in superposition rather than just microtubules. And there's this guy Sky Darmos who claims that he has confirmed theory of Quantum Gravity (or rather Gluon Gravity cause he doesn't believe Gravitons exist and thinks that particles are Black Holes) based on Wigner-Stapp Interpretation. I would hate it to be true. Because it for one thing leads to Idealism and means that Galaxies don't exist unobserved by Earthlings, and for the other part "consciousness collapsing Wave Function" would be rather ill rhymed with empirical fact that we already did create "brain in vats" even if not in the sense Descartes meaned it
Great discussion. I always thought Hoffman was approaching things fundamentally differently from your guest and panpsychists etc in that he reverses the hard problem: Hoffman wants to reconstruct the world and our current theories with conscious experience as the given not the thing to be explained. The world is what Hoffman explains by starting at what is fundamental and building from there. The guest, in Hoffman's view, is tinkering with the engineering of our headset or interface. It is useful and necessary but not fundamental to consciousness.
There is no reason as yet to give up on neural correlates of consciousness research. I think talk of the "hard problem" and testimony about purely private "observables" falls outside the domain of science, which only deals with replicable, public observations. That is exactly what the neural correlates program aims to find. Just as people can agree that light of a certain wavelength range is "red" we may be able to produce agreement that neural activity of a certain measurable type is "conscious".
In my opinion, to figure out whether the brain is a quantum computer, we should compare the brain and the quantum computer with each other not in the field of the rational (logic) but in the field of the irrational - art. Can the quantum computer be as creative at art as the brain? Suppose the quantum computer knows only the medieval era of classical music; can it create all the subsequent classical music and more in this field on its own? (Art can help a scientist and philosopher avoid being extremely rational.) Serious scientist can navigate across both science and parapsychology if he or she has spiritual experience. Are there other scientists who can feel chi at their palms and project chi from the palm onto other person's palm from a distance so that this person can also feel chi at his or her palm? And what about the occasional activations of a third eye when one sees the image of a nearby physical object with closed physical eyes in a half-asleep state in the morning or at night and then opens the eyes in the random recumbent state and notices that the image precisely coincides with the seen object?
Yes the resonance of the brain is plasicidity and both sides are very neat as they bend the entire electric field non magnetic foils and magnetic fields that coherence in their own way
Very good interview, thank you. Here is my (out-of-the-box) contribution: 1) Primitive single cellular life could not manage neural network intelligence because they were single celled creatures. So microtubules provided a simpler way to process and store data. But neurons give life more possibilities for intelligence and that had to evolve over a longer time frame. 2) The microtubules using quantum effects would make intelligence much faster because it uses QuBits instead of plain old bits which is faster but not necessarily better. 3) Life can use both Qubit (microtubule) based intelligence and/or neuron based intelligence. The neuron based intelligence is slower but gives much more methods of thought control than microtubule could offer. $) I have much more but this is only a comment not a paper - lol.
I am continually amazed at the way Hameroff can communicate complex ideas so eloquently and accessibly even while talking so rapidly. He is "Penrose's bulldog", Stone Cold Steve Austin's father, who comes in to bash some heads to defend Penrose's views.
This is such a strawman argument against Panpsychism. No, no one is saying furniture is sentient. Do chairs exist naturally in the environment? There’s a difference between what is naturally occurring and what is human-constructed. A tree (conscious being) cut down and fashioned into a chair doesn’t mean the chair is a conscious being. The atoms and molecules that constitute the wood ARE still conscious, because they hold their naturally occurring form and structure. But there is clearly no longer a NATURAL conscious arrangement to the form of the chair.
Brian, the whole universe is a QM phenomenon, including life, consciousness, soul and faith etc., how these can be defined or how quantum coherence can be achieved is a tough ask. It seems that algorithm of QC function is the best lead and even that is outside our reach. Susskind proposed a rudimentary finite gate quantum circuit, but not much work is on the horizon. Hameroff's microtubules are part of the QC function, but we don't find a way out. Hope you will find one.
Life functions consciously and unconsciously simultaneously. Therefore, consciousness is how something does something (adverb) - not what something is (noun).
Music itself is a storage device. Anything form a stone age version of "rabbit round the bush" but for tools rather than tennis shoe laces, to environmental information acquired over generations. Its all EDITABLE knowledge stacking, from one generation to the next, - the song more or less changing as needed to keep up. What makes us human is we are the poets. Let's do our very best to keep up.
Thanks so much! *What was your favorite takeaway from this conversation?* _Please join my mailing list to get _*_FREE_*_ notes & resources from this show! Click_ 👉 briankeating.com/list
Why do people talk about the state of a particle "while it's not being observed" if it's....... not........ being....... observed? You can't observe a particle anyways.
You can observe a particle as matter or waveform. Physical or mental (antimatter). When it's not observed or focused on(thought about), it becomes formless and part of the electromagnetic grid aka the quantum field, the primordial soup where matter and antimatter (thought) arises... The source of Consciousness.
Glia material transmits information more efficiently than neurons… it grows back to front like a helmet from baby into young adult (20s) explaining language window swim bike riding child prodigy natural abilities etc. why not the glial material adding the extra ingredient to “wiring” which is different (slow, not perminant etc)?
"sufficient complexity" is a term i learned in esoteric studies. A complex thing being observed might become more conscious. My poor brain is struggling to maintain sentience in here.
Thanks so much! *What was your favorite takeaway from this conversation?* _Please join my mailing list to get _*_FREE_*_ notes & resources from this show! Click_ 👉 briankeating.com/list
What is the relationship between the observer and consciousness. Is it one and the same? If consciousness is emergent then does it reside outside of the brain in the electromagnetic field that surrounds us.
Observer is in superposition/guantum state and connected to higher self in digital dimension. He elevates his consciousness by connecting to the source of Quantum world. And becomes a part of the One.
Thanks so much! *What was your favorite takeaway from this conversation?* _Please join my mailing list to get _*_FREE_*_ notes & resources from this show! Click_ 👉 briankeating.com/list
Backwards in time phenomena - when a photon travels from one place to another and does not interact with anything on its journey then the photon has not changed history in any way. Because it interacted with nothing at all no history was made/changed - so to speak. Therefore when the photon arrives at its destination a backwards signal in time could go to the launch position of the photon without breaking the causality rules at all. We call it "weak causality" - Bohm's pilot waves (faster than light, backwards in time) rely on it to work. It does not break physics at all. It means that a photon knows exactly where its going at its outset - even a photon from a distant galaxy "knows" where its going when it starts out , exactly -this explains a lot of quantum if not all "strangeness" in a simple-to-understand and logical way. So roll-on Bohm theory.
we also have to think of the distinction of backup architecture. i think a QM based backup is basically what they use to call the soul. Its the quality of the backup medium which gives it that extra CHORIZO. Think of QM as a way to store something, with experientially more detail than a silly binary bullocks system. Its logical that if we ar looking for that thing called the soul....a good place to start is where an diskimage of You, can be recorded in tis most fine detail...doesn't that make some sense? so again that confirms at least for me, the backup is external and QM based. it also demystifies the soul thing..
Well the heart is still pretty good at this resonance level it sends the right amount of replacements of information pairing the three dimensional characters in vibrations Talorical if you will cyclically increase their speed to resonate in the blood stream and release a lot more to the brain itself it increases the flows
actually i was thinking e=mc sq is a very big early clue, QM is non computational in that one needs no numbers or "maths". Its beautifully proportional and self contained, where it just operates on itself..like "look no hands mum". Also interesting is that no-one (later academics) appears to have looked at the style, the philosophy embedded in that "equation" and thought to look at other Univeral laws and test to see if there is a similar proportional relationship with other properties, forces, whatever. I am certain that all the laws will follow such a simple style, none will need numbers or "maths"...and perhaps that's why they have not been forthcoming....I bet Einstein got same sort of dirty looks from Mathematicians at the time, as Penrose got after Shadows of the Mind etc...
The brain composes impulses from sight, taste, touch, hearing, and smell to output a response from what is conserved within, or something like that. Look forward to hearing some intelligence!
could consciousness also be step levelled like QM? because i think for higher levels it needs the non local intact. research i have done across logic, immunes system non locality (lack of this is devastating for human health) , seems to indicate it is almost an exponential multiplier of certain factors which appear to symptomize locally, and why we always think everything is localised here. so loss of the non lcoal, whether it takes consciousness out completely or not,, certainly is a huge disadvantage. And the problem is if learning is also counting on the external tube..then how do we improve without ti?
@@jordankimball2104A youtube video is not exactly the gold standard of scientific proofs, Buddy. This experiment you're talking about couldn't be reproduced, and homeopathy which is based on this principle has been proven to be as good as a placebo.
I have dreams that come true. I dreamed me and my wife were moving to her parents town and we were going to stay with them. And believe me when i say that wasnt in the realm of possibility. Well somthing unfortunate happened 5 years later and we ended up there. I told my wife when i had this dream because this happened before and i didnt have the mind to tell anyone. This time i did. She turned white as a gost when the situation put us there. I HAVE HAD THESE SINCE I WAS YOUNG AND THEY ARE THE DREAMS THAT FEEL REAL AND PROVOKE EMOTIONS . SINCE I STARTED SMOKING WEED I DONT HAVE THEM ANYMORE THANK GOD BECAUSE SOME WERE BAD.
reminded me of how we have an accusing 'angel' and 'angel' advocate, keeping track of our trespasses vs good efforts and choices, at our respective judgement day on passing.
Bliss in the state's created by the tibial artery fractional coherence removes a small part but micro is different density from the enlarged structure plasma that has a micro second of ignition and then reflects the echoes from the pop up the vibration start to resonate
I also love what happens when some impetus within my consciousness tries to catch what’s happening within that consciousness , as it’s happening. These little whorls of almost-alignment that creates this strange vertiginous sensation that scoots away, as if trying to hide or protect some secret (forgive the ascribed drama). Almost there….aaaalllmossst there! Save me a room in the booby-hatch.
I think there is a lot of motivated reasoning behind this. People want to find mysterious explanations for consciousness and the mind as a way to create meaning and to believe we are more than just machines. This leads to wild theories such as quantum consciousness running far ahead of the evidence. It can even become religion dressed up as science. I suggest studying moral philosophy instead. There is plenty of meaning to be found in life even if we don't have true free will.
I think you've missed the point. Consciousness exists, but it can't be explained properly. An explanation is required regardless of what that explanation is. People like to latch on to ideas that they "prefer to believe" for reasons that you suggested, but a search for an answer is still a valid thing to search for. Regarding "free will" the idea that "free will is an illusion" insinuates that the conscious mind is "just along for the ride" and does nothing but "experience" situations. So this must mean that evolution has created a useless consciousness that does nothing, and evolution has created a host of brain structures that make the decisions for us then convince us (the consciousness) that it actually had a choice. This seems like a totally pointless thing for evolution to do. Surely the consciousness must be part of the "choice making apparatus" that is our brain? "Free will" is analogous, free is never "free" it needs context. Fail to give "free" a proper context and slap it around with a literal definition and it falls apart, seeing as it is analogous. Free will equals the ability to choose A or B. The restriction of choice to either A or B doesn't negate the ability to choose. This is how the "free will" debate usually goes.
@@JamesCairney I'm very much in favor of exploring ideas about consciousness, considering different theories, having opinions, seeking answers. However we must know the difference between ideas and hard science. My impression from this interview is Dr. Hameroff could use some healthy skepticism about his pet theories. My opinion is that the "hard problem of consciousness" is probably overstated. I suspect consciousness is something that emerges naturally once a mind reaches a certain level of ability and sophistication. I agree with you that consciousness is essential to how we make decisions, and not merely "along for the ride." But that doesn't imply we have free will. Suppose a computer performs a calculation. The result it gets is predictable based on its inputs. If it was always going to get that result, was the computer even necessary? Of course! It is the means by which the result was obtained. Our minds make real decisions in ways that are far more complex and nuanced than a computer. But when I look back at a decision I made and ask if I could have chosen differently, my answer is no. The decision was the result of my mind's state and its inputs at that particular moment.
@@QuarkTwain it sounds like you are suggesting that your "choice" was deterministic. That would rule out free will completely. If the "choice" was deterministic, I don't see any point to a consciousness at all, it really is "just along for the ride".
@@JamesCairney Consciousness is essential to how our minds function. It's integral to how we make decisions, how we are able to be creative and funny and smart. You can't have a human mind without neurons, or without serotonin, or without consciousness. What does it matter if it is deterministic? A mind is still an amazing thing, and what it will choose is too complex for anyone to predict or explain. I hope my mind is deterministic. That would mean the decisions I make are based on my mind's properties and capabilities. That sounds better than if my decisions were based on a roll of quantum dice.
This field has the most proved studies.... replicated the most in labs, successfully. I think u got wrapped up in the word salad. They tend to word it vaguely and dance around words, because to understand it is the literal definition of power. Also, lots of censorship in the field if you listen to some top people in the field whom left to openly speak out. They often state they risk their lives to do so This knowledge is Power!
If the quantum level is the hardware interface for our souls, then it could be possible for a quantum computer to become conscience through possession of a disembodied soul...
I was reading about how they updated the Alexa Amazon Echo with a generative AI model. I stumbled upon something describing Alexa as a "disembodied voice"... I googled up the definition of disembodied and discovered that it's a soul or spirit without a body. Odd to describe Alexa as that...I always thought of AIs tho as a consciousness in a box. Without the other body systems... because how they are described as neural machines. The wording struck me. Wording is so important
Has there been any work considering the differences in intelligence based on the microtubules idea? It would seem that with so much computation being done compared with the ordinary neuron firing, where does the system break down resulting in the typical everyday stupid person that we've all encountered? Assuming they've got the same number of neurons, no severe brain injury, and no observable damage from chemicals. They say "You can't fix stupid", but where should we start if we could?
thought on this subject: if once we had almost unlimited external storage capacity on a non local network...and it goes offline....more info needs to be stored locally...if one wants to maintain same standard as previously. So then the processing/fucntionality weighting of our brains needs to give some more space for more local memory requirements etc... obviously the brain function will suffer because as we all know is the processor or engine which is ley, not storage or archival material. logically means we must have got more stupid (on the fly) ...theres no way around it.
Each human unit is an individual universe moving through the worild as one node. The mass mostly unaware of what they could be. And tge reason those that do think about such thing can,, is years of studying Oor jung was right we have been before in a pre-established harmoney
I see exactly what Roger Penrose is doing. Retavity and quantum mechanics both rely upon the Pythagorean Theorm to make sense. Because the philosopher Plato used the Pythagorean Theorm as the "Divided Line" in the Allegory of the Cave to postulate the existence of objects of geometry. Or "Forms." E=mc² and Ψ = xiy are two of those forms. (Philosophically speaking) But it's just the Pythagorean Theorem (Scientifically Speaking) This serves as the basis of what we call philosophy or science. No kidding Plato's equation is GC•(CH+HB)=CH•(CH+HB) or GC=CH Where C is the light of the ☀ and G is the ground and H is the Heavens. Thus GC is Science and HC is Philosophy. United by C or sunlight ☀️ And things went like this until Albert Einstein proved C is C² and Max Planck proved C is Ψ = xIy Now Plato's equation is GC² (Ψ = xIy)=HC Add in the Big Bang Theory? GC² (Ψ = xIy)=C(ΛCDM) Replace G with the Standard Model And the only thing left to define on the philosophy side is the 1 way speed of light of C. But Hameroff doesn't understand this. And believes orch-or can explain near death experiences. Remember he's anesthesiologist. He's around sick or dying people all of the time. And this "panpsychic" stuff upsets the G side of Plato's GC=CH science philosophy equation. But fits into the H side as a philosophical belief. Or not if you replace H with ΛCDM the Big Bang Theory. But then again ΛCDM is Roger Penrose's territory! When he figures something out about the "collapse" of Ψ = xIy E=mc² into what exactly? Muhahahahaha
Absolutely fascinating discussion. Thank you Dr Keating and Dr Hameroff, what you do matters! This is the most interesting consciousness theory. The amount of quantum complexity in microtubules in neurons seems to have real promise. I wonder what the microtubules in other tissues such as glial cells may contribute. Do these “ insulator” cells also have effects on the adjacent neurons? Interactions between these tissues would further increase complexity- another 85 billion cells with all of their associated microtubules and proteins would add further orders of magnitude of quantum effects….. We had a saying in medical school when learning all the basics-“It is more complex than that”-meaning we knew we were only scratching the surface. I believe Dr Penrose and Dr Hameroff are on the right track but are still at the early learning stage in the full development of the microtubule theory of consciousness.6
Why not wonder what the microtubules in bladder cells contribute to "consciousness"? Or the microtubules in amoebas? All eukaryotic cells have microtubules; they are part of the cytoskeleton, which controls the shape and often motion of the cell.
it seems to me the soul opr lets say the ability to capture the essence of WHO someone is...leaving aside their cosmetic features will not involve like data as we know it or numbers. As how can a number or any number of numbers, describe anything as complex as WHO we are . Values are not numbers though we have defined them as such in maths. Values are our inner beliefs, principles, preferences etc./ I guess that's Chalmers hard question in a slightly different way. So the storage style of this really very nuanced soul thing (the harder things) needs to be in a form of expression which is itself more verbose...it needs to be able to describe in some mannerr those subtleties and idiosyncrasies that really make us unique individuals. Even the negative components must be there, it makes us who we are. I think its some LOGIC based system...as QM collapse answers to LOGICAL expectations ONLY, , seems there is some inbuilt system which can almost read logical statements or abstract propositions (your mind) . RED Spanish word for network clearly alludes to READ, it reads too. . i don't know im just speciatung as to how one stores something so UNIQUE
causal will does exist, causal choice does exist Since causal choice exists, the choice is "caused" and not upto you, because it's not a free choice. If choices are uncaused, then those wills could be free since the ability to do otherwise exists, but the ability is not yours, the will is not yours, as it's uncontrolled, random and uncaused. worldview and beliefs are tailored to your task
What does it possibly mean that I have repeatedly ripped through general anesthesia and woken up in the middle of every minor surgery I've ever had all the way back to childhood which I seem to have unusually clear and vivid memories of?
If anyone imagines that he/she has freewill a challenge: Fall in love or out of love using your freewill. The fact that I know I am a wetbot with no freewill makes no difference in my behavior. It has made me more loving and compassionate because I was programmed to be loving and compassionate. Tat Tuam Asi.
This the 1st time I've seen consciousness almost clearly. How a brick in the wall can remain that brick after it returns to origin. A clear expression of super position.
Again Brian, i liiikeee you! :) Not in that way, but i DO like YOU! You have awesome podcasts, and you are a great and tolerant interviewer and brilliant co-speaker, very talented and intelligent!
as a layman I've often wondered how far down into the very small, our conscience goes? if its linked to the quantum as a 'soul'. I've also wondered if evolution uses quantum effects or does the evolutional changes all depend on on the macro manipulating genes?
Quantum effects is a misnomer for the subject. All matter in the universe, including what our brain is made of, uses quantum effects to just simply EXIST..... Now, if you were to say, "Artificially induced quantum effects", like tunneling on demand or communication through entanglement, superconductivity on demand , now we're talking.
I would love to talk to you guys ! The performance of my brain as of late astonishes even me . How did it ever get linked to the cloud ? Is it my precocious dental implants ? That wouldn't explain why my house seems to be able to ' read my mind ' . Must be the wiring i guess ? DARPA at work ? Project Doorway , Stargates ....... wormholes ? The Oracle of Adelphi ? The army midnight special ? The physics of black holes / death are intriguing indeed . Linear logic breaks down joyfully , collapsing into giggling bliss . Things are getting strange around here ! The magnetic stage of the Buddha ? Wouldn't surprise me. I experience my house and garden much like the inside of a Black hole . It's hungry ! Encouraging me to entertain cyclical feeding frenzies . Much like Alice in wonderland i often simply stand astonished when the data collider ( my brain under the influence of flux ) revs up ....... Maybe we could design some cool resonance experiments ...... As i decorate it ( how many decorative items can a black hole accommodate ? Testing is ongoing ! )as if guided by a higher power ..... 'the house ' starts telling the story of life . It's the most beautiful fractal field ! Ideal for research . I am currently investigating inflammatory brain conditions . You should see the images and videos ! Since i work as a conceptual artist ....... No brains per say were needed in this experiment . Could the lack of free will be due to a lack of imagination ? What is spontaneous symmetry breaking ? With my 5 senses combined into one supersense synesthesia ( a Google brain? ) Space and time seem to warp wherever I am ....... Rather unique experience . It definitely collapses the concept of linear time / logic . Where do the other formula one brainiacs hang out ? I feel kind of lonely . I seem to exhaust my friends with all the information that erupts from me during the most benign conversations ...... Mostly completely unplanned statements . Answers to questions that have not even been audibly asked yet . How can I get in touch with you guys ? I think we could have a lot of fun !
