Su - 57 the Raptor Slayer | Part 2 - Propulsion 

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this is _definitely_ the single most underrated military aviation channel on RU-vid.

This is the anti-fanboy site for military hardware buffs. I like this guy's sensible and qualified discussions of what is quite complex hardware and engineering topics. Keep up the good work mate. Your audience appreciates it.

Hello from the USA! I really enjoy your videos on Russian planes. I think both of our countries know better than to underestimate the capabilities of the fighter planes they produce. At least I would hope so!! Hopefully the only combat they'll ever see against each other is in the simulator games.

Planes like the F-22 and the SU-57 have potentially another trick up their sleeves. Their high efficiency, high thrust engines will work above 65k but at that altitude wing surface controls don't work very well. With thrust vectoring even at the lower thrust you can still control craft as long as you can get even 25% thrust. With it you still control your plane and prevent a spin up 85k feet. I know this sounds crazy but I have seen simulations on missiles.

"I hacked into NPO Saturn computer" As someone who's worked there, in the design bureau (not the military sector though) I find that *extremely* unlikely. The computers there arent even connected to the internet and no USB devices are allowed in xD

Ottis is resourceful.

A lot of Military Aviation channels have a lot of flashy irrelevant videos, electro synth rock garbage music composed by an algorithm, a text to speech narrator that ripped off aviation news articles, a click bait BS title and almost no substance. This channel has a soft spoken (no BS) human narrator, excellent substance constructed by the same narrator, a straightforward title, light music in the background and good quality relevant videos. One is fighter tech porn, the other is for learning.

1 thing to keep in mind: smaller budget of anything will spring creativity to solve the same problems differently and can end up being better. Thinking outside of the box.

hey man love your videos youtube algorithm brought me to your channel. instant fan. love to see more detailed videos. and you aint kidding when you say this information is not available easily elsewhere

Alot to digest here, enjoyed it thoroughly and gorgeous flight footage. Levcons and cheers, part three can't wait.

Always a reasonable and level-headed analysis, very enjoyable!

haha bravo! the intro was great! I have to say your channel is the best when it comes to dissecting the info on all these subjects of military aircrafts. great work!

at this moment in time my budgie has slayed exactly the same number of raptors as the su 57

Thank you Millenium 7! God bless and preserve.

I love Otis, that satellite joke in the intro was 😚 🤌🏼

It seems to me that the stealth profile of the aircraft would be compromised if the aircraft is trimmed with the control surfaces, yet not compromised if the aircraft is trimmed with the thrust vectoring. That would facilitate the aircraft attacking air tankers and control aircraft. Regards, Geoff. Reeks

Great content, again. Thank you!

Very interesting, thank you. Looking forward to the next one.

You bring alot of Technical Knowledge and Logic into this, I am subbed!

Excellent intro: it had me laughing out loud 😂

Excellent video as always! Arrivederci!

7:26 - 7:33 yes that's what i was asking in your last vid not parallel nozzle , got my answer "Bizarre Maneuverability" thank you so much .

Good show, I agree with a lot of your fans that you go into detail that we can't get elsewhere.

Outstanding information!

Love ur work!

This channel deserves so much more likes and subscribers

Totally enjoyed this video. I’m subscribing 😎

Thank you. Excellent video. Your hypotheses make a great deal of sense to this layman. I am looking forward to the following videos in this series.

Thanks for the video!

that was incredibly informative!

I absolutely enjoyed the dual post as understanding of the SU program. And the security....* Where the design meets or exceeds range, performance envelope and indeed stealth domain is a curious, modern compartment of aircraft logistic and delivery. Metals, machine tools to deliver a product in numbers...a required support. So much also, as avionics and ground support for a group so fielded. Inspection schedule, calibration, fuels..and the training of crew. In the end, where thrust vector will meet drone fleets, radar, and weapon. That a man is so engaged, to fly this beast of a model...a part of the resolve of the craft. Thank you for the careful, information packed view. M.

Great video. Interesting take on the thrust vectoring.

Again, very entertaining 😍

Great analysis. Nevertgeless, the most important part of su-57 is its integrated electronics. It has 5 radars of both x and l band. The last will allow it to detect stealth aircrafts at distances of 200-250 km, although it is not quite evident if he can shoot them it this distance. His next key feature is his weapon's bays, which are the biggest from all 5th generations fighters. They will allow it to carry 8 medium range rockets (up to 200 km) alonside with 2 short range, big bombs and even hypersonic rockets. Ideologically it is f-22 with the strike capabilities, later realised by USA in f-35 project.

👍👍😊 Very interesting plane (project) and info - thanks !

Wow. Really on-point speculation. Excellent content.

Awesome!!!

Great video

About the intake. Sadly, I doubt that many people would listen to you. I saw a guy presented about Su-57 Intake filter that it gonna be similar to F-18's with good reasoning to back it up, yet, people still believe that Russia don't know how to do it.

Excellent presentation. Trimming thrust for max efficiency seems to make good sense, and along with the possibility of missile tracking problems, I believe this has a good probability to pay off in the future as the Thrust vectoring nozzles eventually decrease in weight. on a side note; your audio production is spot on as far as I am concerned.

If engine is the "hottest" that means it's the best, cuz it's all about materials, alloys, technology and efficiency. That means no any "10-15 years behind"

I like your analysis! Something that really makes the brain working like hell!

Great. Many thanks.

People trip out on his pronunciation of certain words. If we understand what he is inferring or intending then it’s effective enough. Keep up the good work my dood! You’re still one of my favorite Open UNCLASS information sources all explained rather well. Opinionated? Maybe a slight hint at times…. But still awesome nonetheless.

Thanks for again an excellent video with some very interesting data and at the end some very interesting hypotheses. Also the a-symmetric aspect of Russian designs is interesting. It does look a bit like the french way of doing thing differently than others.

Going off the efficiency idea for thrust vectoring, looks like the engines have a fairly significant inward cant in case of asymmetric thrust/engine out situations. If it's 3D thrust vectoring, I wonder if this could compensate for cosine losses from the inward cant while also improving safety in a single engine out situation. This would work in addition to the trim effect you mentioned.

You make great video's enjoy your narration "I am a FAN

Nice sir

Very very interesting... thanks once again for such a good video... which is indeed result of very hard work and a lot of interest and enthusiasm... thanks once again for such a real, very real content...🤝 I wish you best of luck and alot of good wishes and prayers, if you need...😉 Waiting eagerly for the next video... ❤ 🇮🇹

Fascinating information and facts on thrust vectoring and Russian Design theory 👍

Please do an interview with Gonky on his experience fighting the Hornets and Flankers!!!

7:44 it's not an "izdelye 30" engine. We have official information that "изделие 30" is being designed at UEC NPO Saturn, but in the background of this photo we can see banner with "Salut" logo and name of company, also at the Salut's engines(AL-31FM/FM2/FM3) can optionally be installed nozzle with а thrust vector, so I think that this is one of these engines.

Yes, missiles and fighter guiding computer uses a kind of "Kalman filter" which is very well know uses the model of realistic behavior of the object to predict the next possible position of the object. So, it is relly possible to confuse it by performing unusual "transitions". But it is a theory, not sure whether this happen on practice.

Question: how much efficiency loss is incurred by thrust vectoring at maximum deflection? (Engine thrust efficiency, not overall flight efficiency as you mention at 16:15)

Would it maybe be that the thrust vectoring on the SU-57 is used to help avoid its control surfaces from making 90 degree angles with radars while performing maneuvers, thus helping to preserve the jets radar stealth.

Thrust vector is most used for trim, like on a boat. It helps keep drag from control surfaces down.

I’d love to see a video on the difference between Russian and US technologies

This was a good episode.. better than the first part. Interesting hypothesis at the end 👍🏼👍🏼

I would like to point out, that in "thrust-managing ONLY mode of flight control" the plain retain the best shape against radars, compared with normal flight, in which somewhat and sometimes feelable deflection is needed.

Raptor Slayer? Maybe...But, A title neither proven nor earned... but it does look fearsome and beautiful and between the two, the 57 is more captivating to view... Just a beautiful plane...

Shortly after the Pulwama incident, a Su-30 MKI of the IAF dodged 4-5 AMRAAMs launched from a PAF F-16. IIRC the missiles were launched at close to maximum range. Could this missile-dodging have been aided by thrust vectoring.

Very interesting video, thank you very much. I've got something to add though to your description of the dogfighting video between the F/A-18 and the SU-30. In that video, the planes meet in a vertical two-circle maneuver 3 times out of 3 with the F/A-18 pilot does the most effective move trading speed for altitude, therefore greatly decreasing his speed which does in turn increase his turn rate. The SU-30 on the other hand dives increasing its own speed while decreasing the turn rate making itself an easy target. You can easily count the seconds it takes the F/A-18 to turn 270° with the upwards turn and the SU-30 managing only about 180° degree in the same time during a downwards turn. However, after the end of the 3rd engagement, we clearly see the capabilities of the SU-30 rising up doing an upwards turn and turning 270° in the same time the F/A-18 turns about 90° coming in a head on pass with the pilot commenting on his adversaries airshow performance and the amount of such engagements he had during his service there. As outsiders, we do not know the roe of that meeting, however in the BRD Mig-29 squadron documentary one of the pilots does state that most his engagements had to start with predetermined maneuvers to simulate different scenarios, therefore, maybe the rules of that recorded F/A-18 and SU-30 engagement had some rules applied as well.

Abit of corrections, 1. Gonky fought the Malaysian Su30 MKM in a legacy F18D. 2. Gonky lost many times tu Su30, it was a time when he had his gopro with him that he won the engagement. 3. He mentioned that the thrust vectoring does have its use as he had first hand experience fighting against it and capture on his go pro!!

I think they could be using thrust vectoring purely for what little it does give. In order to have as much advantage as possible.

At last a good video on youtube with intelligent people doing it

I really hadn’t seen that last mechanical anti-missile impact hypotheses coming A jagging manouvre while “painted” and Electronic measures to see the missile trajectory and automatically deceive it to point its explosives charge in the wrong direction just before impact is absolutely genius If the algorithms of the missiles aren’t upgraded to counter these moves in the first days of combat there will be a significant advantage in a near stealth plane to survive a head on or sideways attack And possibly penetrate an adversaries strike groups or air dominance defensive flights Perhaps even to reach an AWACS platform over the battle theatre in a dash move with a supercruising low rcs plane like the SU-57 especially if taking off from a merchant ship or forest road with no intention of returning to base I love it :) daring defensive tactics

You have to admit that thrust vectoring especially Russian 3D thrust vectoring is a lot of fun to watch at air shows and on video. How useful it is in combat is debated. Evidently the Russians draw a different conclusion from the US and other manufacturers of aircraft. The US puts its bet on stealth. US experts are not at all convinced that SU57 is particularly stealthy, not as stealthy as F35 and certainly not as stealthy as F22. While the Americans consider F22 to be the most effective fighter in the world (the Russians feel the same way about SU57) it is due to be retired not much after SU57 becomes operational. The replacements are several and already well into the development phase. One problem faced by all manned aircraft is the problem of keeping the pilot alive and conscious. This limits the plane's aerodynamic performance. Things start to go bad at Mach 6 and are probably lethal above Mach 9. It is also expensive and space consuming to have a human pilot on the plane. Therefore we expect planes like SR72 to be drones. In fact they will have some sort of combined cycle engine that will result on fan jet engines up to about Mach3 and SCRAMJET engines above. Top speed is expected to be above Mach 6. It is expected to be stealthier than F22 and unlike SR71 it will be armed, possibly with hypersonic missiles, lasers, and other weapons. America is quickly catching up to Russia and China in areas it is perceived to be behind in. It just tested the first stage of a 2 stage hypersonic missile with an expected speed of Mach 20. It also has new anti ship missiles in development. Russia is handicapped by its economy. The US is not. It appears to have a limitless supply of money for its military and when taken as a whole its technological resources are staggering. So are its manufacturing resources for high technology projects. While planes like SU57 and SU35 can maneuver to fly backwards for a time can they lock on to targets during this maneuver and will the fact that the missile is being fired with speed in the opposite direction be overcome? Laser and other directed energy weapons will overcome these limitation. IMO the next frontier will be to station all kinds of offensive and defensive weapons in orbit probably in the many hundreds along with thousands of decoys. Will some be nuclear weapons? That's what Putin expects from the US despite the treaty for the non nuclearization of space.

Yes.I wandering how science knows about air and moisture ,pressure work and temperatures.

AL-31Fs MTBO and lifespan isn't related to AL-41F1, since AL-41F1 (not to be confused with F1S sitting in Su-35S) is a next-gen engine compared to AL-31F. Also AL-31F as it originally was, has been out of production for close to a decade now, having been replaced with its modernized, uprated version AL-31FM1 and M2 with longer lifespan. AL-41F1 is an engine which uses newer materials and production techniques as well as is designed to have a significantly longer life cycle, as learned to be necessary from AL-31F. Comment about "lack of thrust" from AL-41F1 gave me a chuckle. Engine needs to put out thrust that allows the aircraft it's installed in to attain a certain set of performance thresholds, not to be a direct match to some other engine elsewhere. AL-41F1 is stated to put out over 15000kgf of thrust while AL-41F1S puts out 14000kgf. Now a clean Su-35S with AL-41F1s can supercruise in excess of Mach 1.3 as achieved in testing by Sergei Bogdan. In fact he stated that the aircraft continued to accelerate when he reached the airspace bounds where he was allowed supersonic flight and had to throttle back. So if we combine the more powerful AL-41F1 (overall 2000kgf than on Su-35S) with a more supersonic-optimized and LIGHTER airframe of Su-57, simple extrapolation leads to a simple and obvious conclusion: it'll supercruise at Mach-1.5 without an issue. Today fighter aircraft are top-speed limited not by engine thrust, but by structural limitations. To all the losers talking trash about how Russia is technologically behind: Guess what losers? What matters is how the engine performs. If Russians don't require insane tech to produce something to achieve the same results, then they are smarter than your engineers: they found a more efficient and cheaper method to achieve same aims. Meanwhile you keep getting ripped off like the sheep you are. Regarding TVC: you are on point. TVC is perfectly capable of balancing the aircraft between subsonic and supersonic cruise keeping trim drag to a minimum. TVC allows for controlling the aircraft irrespective of velocity, whether positive or negative. And it increases turn rates at supersonic speed when traditional controls are far more sluggish. Also TVC can help roll and yaw the aircraft faster without losing the airspeed. In pitch it can tighten the turn and make it turn like its on rails, as opposed to swing the ass around and create huge drag.

Could the thrust vectoring trim feature be for stealth rather than efficiency? I imagine control surface orientation is relevant to radar cross section - not having to move your control surfaces could be an advantage, perhaps?

The Raptor slayer🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😆😆😆🤣🤣🤣🤣😂😂😂😂

Good plane . No need stealth agility. Avionics . Speed .firepower. all it needs

You stated Su-57 with new more powerful izdelie30 engine will be able to supercruise at Ma=1.4 in 2025 when F-22 with old engine with marginally lower dry thrust already supercruise at Ma=1.6. Does it mean 20 years old Raptor at the verge of being phased out has better aerodynamic than Su-57?

a correction: the mentioned Su-30MKM vs Hornet video, that is a modernized Legacy D Hornet, also operated by Malaysian Air Force, equipped with the 404 EPE motor. It is actually way more maneuverable than a Super Hornet, and the RMAF is very happy with both planes. They might buy more used Hornets soon and modernize them. the common consensus outside Russia at the moment is that thrust vector is always a last-ditch feature, at least for now. This applies to USAF, Indian Air Force and Malaysian Air Force. It will be very useful when supersonic fights above 60k ft becomes a norm, because traditional control surfaces is not very effective at that altitude. Or if stealth takes a much higher importance in future planes that everything is fixed and thrust vector becomes the only means of control.

How funny, I just got done watching another of your videos and upon checking my notifications, I see this treat uploaded 6 minutes ago.😍 Like everyone else, I regard 3d Thrust Vectoring as a nice feature to have, but not strictly necessary. Would certainly help in the AOA nose pointing fight as the F-18 vs Su-30MKM fight showed though. Even though he only showed the times he defeated the Flanker and not the times the Flanker defeated him.... which seems to be a thing with the U.S Airforce and Navy. Hype up the Vipers and Hornets with the gun tapes and shots but downplay the times they lose. The Russians have done well with the AL-41F1, but with the Izd 30... that's where my questions are. What would the MTBO be? What is its Overall Life Span? And what else lies in store for Izd 30? Given the work in Adaptive Cycle Engines in the U.S, I expect the Russians to take the Izd 30 as the basis for such a new development. The engine, like the aircraft is a bit late but it's got a bright future ahead for it. Yet another fantastic video.

There's a chance that TVC can be used in a BVR scenario to allow the su57 to briefly point its radar at the adversary, and fire missiles back even when going cold to defend an incoming missile. A missile fired like this may inherit very little of the su57's initial energy, but would still remain a threat, and the odd firing intervals might throw the enemy off guard as they recommit after defending the initial missiles. At the very least it could probably be used to buy some time to regain some of that energy with its high acceleration. Utilizing the side-facing AESAs, an su57 theoretically remains an offensive threat even when aggressively defending. I know this is counter-productive, as bleeding out your energy to perform an instantaneous maneuver just to get a bootleg missile shot is probably the last thing you'd want to do when defending a missile, but we all know russian doctrine... and this might be the BVR equivalent (tactically speaking) of performing a cobra in a dogfight. And as you said, the sudden change in acceleration might confuse a missile's lock.

Given that fighters have to perform under very different conditions added degree of freedom by TVC can be used in rather subtle ways to optimize performance. In supercruse very little deflection makes a difference. The Russian choice to have more than one axis TVC and the Su-57 roll behaviour indicate reduced stability and aerodynamic authority.

" the Raptor Slayer " in that sentence you accept Raptor is the one everyone fears.

I know I am talking about science fiction but it would be great if you could do a review of the Valkyrie SSTO from the movie avatar. I wanted your opinion if it's actually possible to build such a plane based on your aeronautical expertise

Wow !!!!

Could the thrust vectoring for Russian planes be implemented for short takeoffs as the main reason? Because they do seem to Focus on allowing their planes to operate on damaged runways

Another reason for thrust vectoring that I was waiting for you to say is short take off capabiliity. Russians dont use catapults on their aircraft carrier and if they want to navalize the su57 it already has nozzles that can point down diagonally like the f35. The f35 uses the lift fan for landing but the russians have arrresting wires because their carrier is stobar. This also fits in with the russian doctrine of capability to take off from unprepared runways and why inlet ducts have screens or doors. On land short takeoff capability helps takeoff from smaller more austere runways. The a6 intruder originally was designed with nozzles that pointed down too, it works good especially with a ski jump like russia uses.

АЛ-41Ф1 engine resource until overhaul is 4000 hours, NOT 1000. Please be correct. 1000 hours was for АЛ-31Ф in 1980s

That often quoted 20 to 30 year gap has never been about technology per se, but the Russian industrial and economic capability to equip a significant enough portion of their armed forces with it.

You can predict nothing until the rubber hits the road.

Your English is so good.

well, wiki says that AL-41 resource before repair is 4000 hours. Not a lot worse then western counterparts.

Modern fox 2 missiles are becoming so good, that it only takes 1 turn to shoot and kill. Combine this with the fact that they still visually ID in crowded airspace, giving the Russians an significant edge on the merge.

I have a tendency to accept your second hypothesis. Several years ago I read a publication on how thrust vectoring could degrade bvr air combat. It was by Carlo Kopp and many dismissed it partly because of the controversy surrounding the guy but mainly because they tought its impossible for a fighter to outmaneauver a modern missile not understanding the logic how modern bvr missiles actually track targets.

one possible and remarkable use of thrust vectoring would be to defeat heat seeking missiles by turning face or side on to the millise?

NF 104 had reaction control rockets for control during zoom out of aerodynamic atmosphere.

Paul Metz, a test pilot involved in the Yf-23 and F-22A programs, had gone in record stating that the F-22 utilizes TV for flight trim. If you remember that it has (allegedly) the highest super-cruise speed of any fighter, higher even than the max speed of the F-35, I would say that TV is a very important feature in a 5 gen air superiority fighter.

The new Russian engines show less smoke and blue afterburner flame, both indicate that they are making progress.

1) How F-22 with weaker engines, worse aerodynamics can have so much better supercruise speed? 2) Thrust vectoring can shorten take-off length and improves handling with 1 engine damaged.

He has a world map on the wall, so he must know things.

Will you make a video about BVR in the future?

What engine? The one that does supercruise? Is it still smoky?

what's the music at 5:22

Great video. I want to see a video of the key tecnologies the russians are ahead . Thanks for your work!