Sub Weapon Design Tier List 

my crazy idea of how splatoon should be designed is adding a "boingboingboingboingboing" sound to dart

You call them sub weapons despite the fact that all of them except ink mine sit ABOVE the ink? Curious.

Sprinkler is a sub that was designed to fit splat 1 and only fits/works in splat 1. And considering they don't want to design another game to be similar to splat 1, they desperately need to remove sprinkler from the future games, as all it does at this point is kill weapon kits.

I think a game with only lethal bombs, especially just splat and burst, would be a functional, but very boring game compared to what Splatoon is now. You need things like wall, beakon, sensor, and mist to give things more variety and functionality; in a game with only lethal bombs every sub just boils down to "deals damage, has a slightly different use case depending", which is the same kind of thing you criticized with the special design in your other video. At that point, the only thing that differentiates kits is the special, the sub always maintains the same role. If the problem with the sub is it feels weak on some kits/makes some kits weaker, that's a problem with the dev team not utilizing the sub properly, not an issue with the sub itself. Heck, even line marker could have been done properly, the only thing that really is a relic of older splatoon at this point is the sprinkler

As a Brella player, my main problem is just how incompatible lethal bombs are with the weapon class. If your sub eats 60-70% of your ink tank and your shield consumes 20% of your ink per second or takes 30% to launch, you *might* get one shot in before you hit the low fuel light, so you're basically stuck with subs like mines and beacons that are meant to be used before/outside of combat. Ever cheaper bombs like Auto/Burst are going to limit your window of opportunity in a fight, which really hurts when combined with the class's generally-inconsistent damage output.

Challenge mode idea: extreme sub saver where not only can you bomb spam, but you’re also allowed to spam subs that usually have a limit to how many you can place, so you can throw like five splash walls. It sounds stupid but a fun challenge mode

I would love to have sprinkler in a game if it was actually good. Make it something that you can throw down and quickly get paint out of, make it actually able to hit players if they stand in it, and now you get something that is more fun and can be used tactically rather than putting it down and forgetting it exists.

An idea I have for sprinkler is to turn it into a sentry. When a player is in its range it’ll start shooting at them and be a 5 shot to not make it busted. It’s vertical range will be smaller than its horizontal range to prevent certain sprinkler spots from being to broken

Angle shooter is still so much fun even with it being so bad. It is my most favorite thing. It has always been a lot of fun, even before the buffs. It may not ever be good in splatoon 3, but coming back to Splatoon 4 with a redesign... Could be so sick. My wish list for Angle Shooter: Reticle: Fix the aiming reticle for it, oh my gosh! Piercing: Make the shots pierce multiple targets like a sniper. This fixes a flaw in the weapon where hitting somebody causes the line to end early, and limits the weapons ability to mark opponents. Buff bounces: Make it so it gains a percentage of damage, and range for each bounce. This rewards using it in more clever and difficult ways. Taller Hitbox: Being able to both jump over, and swim under the line takes away too much from its utility. Jumping over is fine, but swimming under is way too easy. I do not like the idea of having the line do damage actually. That's not adding to the fun, clever, creative use cases for it.

one day they will buff dart. im a believer

Thanks for this video Mr. School. My day hasn’t been going well (I tried so hard to fit the last words of my paper on one page but I just couldn’t so I had to waste a whole other page just to write one word) and this video has really helped me take my mind off that.

As a tent main, don’t you dare touch my ink mine. That’s my baby

"tenta brella dilemma" is such a fun thing to say funny how all the good subs are also the well-designed ones

I don't think the game would be better off with so few sub weapons (variety is the spice of life after all), but for sure most of them need massive buffs or reworks in order to compete. Ink mines for example I always felt like you should be able to throw them. Not as far as you can throw bombs of course, but far enough to give just a little bit more range and flexibility, and make it where they're not so much of a hassle to set up. That plus the ability to put them on walls as well (assuming it's a paintable wall, good luck finding one) would do so much for mines even if it's power level was completely untouched, and I think something similar can be done with almost all the bad sub weapons. Though sprinkler might just be unsalvageable so I guess we can cut that at least

I know in concept having a whole bunch of bombs and less of then ”weaker” subs may be nice for some players, but if there was more Lethal Bombs in the game I personally think it’d be a whole lot more annoying, especially for people who main Tenta Brella (like me). Constantly getting your Canopy Bombed and instantly blowing up is really not fun, *and* you have very little time to even react. I also couldn’t imagine Tenta Brella *with* a Lethal Bomb. The main weapon itself is too ink hunger to reasonably justify one. So in that case it’s really nice to just be able to drop down a Beakon or (my favourite deployable) an Ink Mine. …it could just be me though.

7:45 the Suction Mom™ Thank you Gem, not intentional but hilarous nonetheless !

I think the best use case for sprinkler is on Undetow zones, where you can stick a sprinkler underneath the glass ceiling over the enemy’s zone from your sides cover. It forces enemies to get rid of it, since it prevents zone capture, and is a massive waste to shoot at because the position of the sprinkler forces a miss on not only your teammates but also the zone, delaying capture by a lot.

Here's a crazy idea I heard of a long while back (not custom kits, I've talked about that to death about now): For splatoon 4 let us use 2 subs for each kit. One sub with the R trigger is always a throwable leathal sub and the other sub on the L trigger is a tatical sub (i.e. everything else)

I honestly had no idea people thought ink mines and sprinklers were bad, since I mostly play Splat Zones and Tower Control, and those subs are invaluable in those modes. I feel like a lot of the weaker subs can be buffed in unique ways to make them feel more impactful, without changing their identity: - Toxic Mist could have its radius and duration increased, with a minor trade off of the cloud shrinking over time. Perhaps starting about 10% bigger than now, then shrinking to 50% its current size before disappearing, while lasting like, isk, 20% longer? Exact values would need lots of testing but I think that could work. Maybe if it also dropped a single little blot of ink that would help it? - Point Sensor needs to be able to do damage. Wavebreaker and Angle Shooter have shown us that this would not be broken, and it wouldn't be overpowered. Just have it do like 30 damage on initial targeting. - I think Curling can be "fixed" by combining it and autobomb, that is, remove them both and bring back Seekers from S1, possibly with some tweaks to make it less oppressive than they used to be (or so i heard. i didn't get to play s1) - Ink Mines should be able to be placed closer together. They should be able to overlap inside of each others' blast radii. Pearl can do it. Why can't we? - Sprinklers just need more range on the throw and their ink spread. Maybe if they also removed the speed stage thing it does that would also make it feel more useful? Edit: I think all of these weaker ones could also use a cheaper ink cost. 75% for a Beakon is ridiculous. 45% for a Burst or Angle Shooter is ridiculous. Like, the majority of "weak" subs *deserve* more efficiency.

I think one of the problems is how some sub weapons are currently just outclassed by others, even in their supposed niche. For example: curling bomb puts down a straight line of ink for mobility, but so does fizzy. Fizzy also pokes and paints. Sprinkler practically only has painting as its niche, and almost every other painting sub is better at this especially, again, fizzy. Angleshooter is a good combo tool, but generally are outclassed by burst bombs at doing this, with the sole exception of range, and point sensor is far better for the pure utility of locating. Additionally, the fact that the crosshairs are slightly different across weapons means that the angle at which the shot comes out relative to the crosshair location is slightly different for every weapon with angleshooter.

The only one that truly needs to go is Angle Shooter. About half the others need 1-2 buffs. Beyond that, the Sub Weapons are more or less fine. There's a good reason Burst bombs are all but banned from being on at least half the weapons, and a Splatoon with only Splat and Burst bombs would be horrible.

😺They should remove ink next patch to balance the game. (april 1)

Another interesting discussion. I agree subs needs a rework but would also argue that although many sub-weapons may bring unbalance the alternative of everyone having a lethal bomb would be less fun both in terms of losing the uniqueness of the many sub weapons in the game and the playstyle it would promote. To that end and in the spirit of Splatoon FOUR I would split sub-weapons into lethal and tactical subs.A common idea in the likes of COD and Battlefield. This would give players new options and ease balance. I would also implement the following ideas. 1. All lethal subs should be kept as they are. I would class all of the top 6 options as the damaging subs the rest as tactical subs. Plus some new ones should be added in each category. I like the idea of a cluster bomb or some form of mini grenade for the lethal subs. 2. Some tactical subs would need rebalancing. Curling needs an ink efficiency buff to make it a pure movement tool. Toxic mist should be reworked into a form of smoke grenade. Angle shooter needs a tripwire effect. Sprinkler just needs to go back to where it was in S1. Beacon, Wall, Point sensor, and Mine all serve unique purposes. Be it spawn points, temporary cover, location to encourage aggressive play and flank protection. In addition to this I think the idea of stations that provide small buffs would be a useful addition. Like Med-bags and Ammo boxes in other games. A point sensor that is stationary and emits a pulse would also be fun and some form of ink protection device would be another idea. 3. Subs should to the best of the developers ability be balanced with strength and inefficiency both used to achieve this. e.g. a splatbomb may be a strong sub but it should cost more than say a curling or sprinkler. If this is achieved then we can in turn make weapons balanced. Rather than using subs and specials to balance strong and weak weapons. g

honestly i'd 100% bump torp to top tier. burst bomb as a combo and paint tool is instant upon landing as well as functioning as a movement option, and you can also throw 2 with 1 ink tank no sub saver required, so torp wouldnt be competing *too* too much in its particular niche. the niche torp would choose to fill instead is location, which would be an incredibly useful utility to have for a lot of weapons that splat or burst bomb cant really help with, or at least nearly as well as torp

[A picture of a cat] I've thought for a while that the game doesn't need both curling and fizzy. They could drop curling and buff the trail from fizzy and then it covers basically the same function. Similar with autobomb and torpedo, they're a bit redundant.

So as a angle shooter player, I think my fav idea for it is to add piercing so in a tight place it could hit more players, plus give it a new effect where the person hit is poisoned and can’t not recover ink or health until the tag is over

Angle Shooter would be really fun if it was just better. My idea would be to reduce the damage from the direct hit back to 30, but now it applies a damage over time effect for 5 seconds, dealing 2 damage per second. This would deal a total of 40 damage, but it would also prevent the opponents from healing for a long time, making it an exceptional sub for combos, since it would locate the opponent and keep them weakened for a while. If that isnt enough, then reduce its ink cost down to 33%, so triple dart becomes a thing you can have with no sub saver. That would be fun.

I would combine Angle Shooter and Curling Bomb into something new. I really like the concept of a sub weapon that bounces around, can hit behind walls and allow some trick shots. The problem is the two we have are very weak. Curling Bomb is outclassed by Fizzy in terms of painting a line and barely deals damage. My idea for Curling Bomb Deluxe it's that it's way quicker, but thinner. Explodes on contact with an opponent, but it's damage isn't lethal, probably like 40 or 60 depending on how fast we want it to be.

After this splatfest I'm now fully convinced of what needs to be done moving forward in the next game in the series: all weapon kits have 2 subs. Every kit gets a bomb of some kind and a utility sub like beakon or sprinkler. This gives them something that can be aggressive and poke out enemies on kits that have trouble doing it while allowing them to also be a team player. Solo Queue is a crapshoot as to what your team comp and player skill level will be, so making every weapon into more of a well rounded swiss army knife would mean less blindspots that could shut down your kit. And in teams, making it so you can swap more easily between roles by having the kits be more well rounded would help too. I'm a roller main and it was night and day playing turf war with my krak-on roller able to throw fizzbangs to chip enemies or strategically cover turf just outside my reach and comfort zone to engage was a lifesaver. I would not want to give up my beakons, but with them I feel like I have one arm behind my back as I'm unable to threaten enemies in certain positions. This splatfest testing out fizzbangs I think is the way they should approach kit building in Splatoon 4.

It really says something about Curling Bomb’s design how Splat Roller is practically the only weapon that actually wants Curling Bomb as opposed to any other sub weapon. Aside from maybe burst bomb.

My crazy idea is that lethal bombs should cost significantly more ink and/or have a hard cooldown on top of the ink recovery delay. A lot of times, it feels like there's just so much bomb spam that the game becomes tedious and boring, especially on the smaller maps where your approach options are already limited. I get that Splatoon is fast-paced, but I don't wanna spend the whole match dodging bombs and throwing bombs. It'd be nice if they were more tactical and less spammy.

As a Squiffer, the most accurate thing in the whole video is your Autobomb placement and description, and it’s on point.

I feel we are at a point now where I'd say if Nintendo inists on keeping both Curling and Fizzy in a Splatoon game together, Curling NEEDS something to make it stand out, because Nintendo seems to use Curling as a "we would have given it Fizzy but it would be too good" option rather than making them have different use-cases... I feel like Curling wouldn't be too bad if the explosion at the end was better, giving it a larger radius and increasing the lethal radius would make it more threatening (especially with the hallway design) and bumping up the contact damage to 30 wouldn't hurt much either. I think every weapon that has curling right now would appreciate those changes.

When I was playing splat 1 before the shut the online service down, I remember getting splatted by the sprinkler a surprising amount of times. It was so much better in that game, they really need to bring splat 1 sprinkler back

i like fizzies because shaking them up is fun. that's about it.

we should make marker work the same way it did in that one challenge, that was super fun. also compress everything else's roles.

Buff ideas for Mine, Sprinkler, and Dart below, TL:DR: Mine is decent but could use more frontline synergy, sprinkler needs a lot more, and Dart just needs actual value to its directs. I think that Ink Mine is actually a very well designed sub weapon, it just gets put on exclusively bad weapons for it besides like, Eliter. If it were buffed to be more useful for frontlines/midlines (give us three of them and/or proper remote detonation of all mines at once Nintendo) it would be much more fun. As for sprinkler, I've always though the idea of it acting like a TF2 Sentry gun would be fun. It starts out painting in its worst paint mode, maybe slightly buffed, then after 3-4 seconds it goes into its second paint mode and gains more HP, then it finishes in its third another 3-4 seconds later with double or more HP and even better paint than it has now. It would make for a fun weapon that you put down somewhere defensive to protect a zone, or paint a chokepoint, but you could also put it in a more aggressive position and defend it yourself so it becomes stronger and helps out more. That, or let us throw two sprinklers and remove the third paint tier, that's the easier option. Finally, I've always loved the idea of making Dart have a homing ricochet after it hits an enemy. For example, it hits an enemy, sends out a little soundwave along the floor like Autobomb does (maybe slightly faster), then shoots towards the closest enemy within its range for the rest of its remaining range. This would not only make it much more valuable to hit a direct, but could quite literally just ping-pong between an entire team if they're clumped up, and while its only 40 damage, and it might miss the third or fourth person, that's still half the team likely to be tagged or at least located by the marker's trail. Add the regular suggestion of a 20-25 damage trail hitbox onto it, and suddenly it's actually a very threatening multi-hit combo sub.

I like ink mine, and im too stubborn to stop using my Flingza roller. I like mines if I'm trying to escape and i'm being chased because i'll drop a mine than spin and smash. I also like getting in behind chargers and leaving ink mines at the places they love to set up shop :D

Sprinklers good and here’s why: 1: Helps build special 2: when placed in front of you, it provides a second of immunity due to the enemy shooting that before you 3: along with 2, you’d be surprised at what an extra second of charge or just having an extra second of reaction time can do 4: distracts the enemy

I think Ink Mine is still worth being on the game considering how it's a pretty unique deployable, but it does need something more.

Gem's views the moment he decides to make any kind of tier list vid: 📈📈📈

^._.^ "Meow" I don't think the game would be improved by only having one or two bombs, but I do think they could cut back on the overall number. As someone else said, sprinkler really only works in Splat 1 and it awful in the other two games. I think it would be best to just remove it from future games, but they'll never do that so it desperately needs a buff. The only ideas I have right now are returning it to how it was before the nerfs, which allows weird placements that are incredibly annoying and unfun, or give it a health buff no it can be used near enemy players without being deleted instantly. That's also problematic because it becomes an instant splash wall. Sprinkler will just continue being a plague on some weapons. Ink mine is weird. 90% of the time it's complete garbage, but some weapons like tent and e-liter can use them decently-not effectively, but decently. Would prefer this is gone, but that would leave a slight void for weapons that don't use their sub very much. Angle shooter lol Curling bomb can be deleted; the existence of fizzy makes curling bombs completely outclassed. They're also just not good on 90% of weapons. Maybe bring back seekers, the boats were funny. Toxic mist is cool but under-tuned. Disrupter in S1 was absolutely insane so it's good they reworked it, but it could use something like a very slight damage similar to standing in enemy ink. It should stay, but needs some work. Every other sub is pretty cool, though I do agree that suction bombs are redundant and just a little too slow.

Hello, I am one of the bomb-spam haters that were mentioned early in the video. It definitely saddens me to look at this list and see the top two tiers of "this is what should be in the game" exclusively comprised of bombs and particularly lethal bombs at that (with burst bomb being a sole exception), and to me it somewhat highlights a similar issue I have with a lot of the game's special designs as well; there is such an emphasis placed on the value of big OHKO explosions because of the combination of lethality, paint, and area denial over time they provide in tandem, that anything trying to provide any sort of alternative utility ends up being shoved aside. From the standpoint of high level competition I can get that, but as long-time but admittedly more casual player of the series (casual in terms of performance and mindset, not in time played) that sounds like pushing the franchise into a direction I would not be pumped to see. One of the things that's mentioned several times in the video is a preference for "speed" of play to be one of the game's primary characteristics to focus on. While I think a case could also be made that speed in a game containing only splat and burst bombs might be compromised anyway by the need to approach virtually every situation carefully lest a one-hit-splat hitbox suddenly appear in your face or being constantly lobbed into a choke-point, speaking just for myself I'd much rather put the focus more on enabling a wider variety of playstyles and crafting unique synergies between main and sub weapons in ways that encourage main weapons use primarily. Yeah there is functionally no weapon that would suffer for having a splat bomb in it's kit, but the other side of that coin means that splat bomb as its own thing is so universally good and strong that it's even outweighing the importance of main weapons. Instead of simply cutting out everything that doesn't explode, I would rather dial back the OHKO effectiveness of a lot of these bombs (or at the very least force them to be used sparingly and intelligently--goodbye Jr's needless extra-capacity ink tank) and buff or rework other options to lean further into chip damage that players can capitalize on with their main weapons. Save the big one-shots for specials, since that seems to be what the devs prefer to build them all toward anyway.

Painting over an ink mine is supposed to be the counterplay? I figured that was just the normal way to set it off, otherwise to set it off you'd need to walk in enemy ink for no reason

suction bomb has always been my favourite sub since splat 1. the fact that you can stick it wherever just gives it so much potential for creative use

I have a few ideas personally for what they could do. Curling bomb definitely seems pretty useless, not only is it too ink hungry but it's also just so predictable, it can't really be used offensively at all, only as an escape tool. Fizzy can do the same job but better, so it either needs a rework or it can honestly just be removed. You mentioned that you dislike point sensor kind of ruining stealth plays, so perhaps what they can do is combine it with either toxic mist, or instead revert toxic mist to splatoon 1 disruptor and combine it with that instead. That way it's not a super cheap sub that can be spammed as much for a ton of info gathering, and it's multi-use, giving it almost the usefulness of a lethal bomb and forcing people to counterplay, though I wonder if that would be too strong if it was disruptor, so I lean somewhat towards toxic mist. Beakon just needs to not be on close range weapons... That's about it really. I mean the only thing I could maybe see working for a close range is maybe ink brush if you gave it like booyah bomb or kraken? But that would honestly be a bit more of a "for fun" kit, sploosh and splat roller are really dumb choices for beakon weapons. If you want to buff it perhaps it could have a double effect where enemies near it can be seen through walls if not submerged, like the thermal ink effect. It can already reveal people on the map but that's kinda hard to pull up mid-fight, that might perhaps make it a nice tool for anti-flanking on those mid to longer range weapons that would prefer it. I'm thinking the reason the devs don't want to buff sprinkler is perhaps the idea that it'll be put on a hard to access place and sprinkle forever, and in the case the enemy team is all short range weapons, they'll have no way of stopping it. But it also goes away when you kill the user? Honestly I think they could just make it have a super fast mode that covers its large area of effect very quickly, and for the rest of its lifetime be at it's current "fast" speed. It's so weak that even that buff wouldn't make it strong, just perhaps not completely undesirable. Because although it has a larger area of effect than bombs, it doesn't have any real lethality and takes way too long to actually cover that area in comparison. It should have much, much better area control than it does right now. If the points for special it'll gain would be a problem, why doesn't it just not gain points for special? Or gain less points? Overall it could just be removed from the game, but I'd at least like to see them try with it. Just don't give it to so many weapons, give it to non-close range weapons that struggle to paint (or paint evenly). Mine is a hard one... Perhaps they should just make it lethal again and combine it with curling, haha. Only one mine, holding it will place it at your feet and submerge it, throwing it will have it submerge where it stops and become a lethal mine area with a shorter radius. If you rethrow it then the previously placed mine will explode with weaker, non-lethal damage. This is more of a joke concept but honestly, could work maybe. Perhaps give the curling bomb a submarine aesthetic so it has this whole diving underwater thing going on. Dart... I liked what someone else said, give it piercing, increase the height of it's hitbox, make wall bounces increase its range diminishingly, and this is a personal change but also just have the trail deal damage like a wavebreaker (though much weaker). Not sure if that should be lethal or not but honestly I doubt it'd be that strong even if it was. Might be good on bullet type weapons, and with my previous suggestion for point sensor you could up its tracking abilities since it won't have to contend with point sensor being a purely info gathering sub. I think these would help the subs be more fun, but perhaps some of them just sound too crazy, I dunno. Honestly I think the devs just shouldn't be afraid to go back on kit decisions and just experiment more, I hate how set in stone everything is to them. But at this point just let us make our own kits lmao, if it's all bombs then oh well, at least they can perhaps tackle them more directly.

This is just what works best with a shooter tier list lmao utility subs are great and putting all of them below bombs is wild. Ink mine is the craziest part literally love it on eliter it's so helpful I would not trade it for a different sub weapon at all

Since curling is only ever used as a mobility tool, I would like to see a rework that leans into that. Completely remove the explosion but slightly increase the speed and the width of the paint trail to make it a bit easier to swim through and decrease the ink cost to 50%. Also, since we are removing the explosion, I think it should do 20 damage on contact to give it some extra utility. I chose such a low damage number because we already have multiple combo subs and I want the design to focus more on the mobility aspect.

The one buff that Line Marker (or Dart, or Angle Shooter) really needs is to aim at the main weapon's reticle instead of like 15 degrees down from there. Most people, if they wanted to hit the floor with it, would aim at the floor. The logic works that way for the every main weapon, it works that way for the Zipcaster, why is it different for this sub weapon and this sub weapon alone? It makes it frustrating to use and changing that alone would make the Marker actually viable as a sub weapon.

i think if mist could actually do a form of damage then it would be more of a threat. maybe it could have an effect similar to an opponent standing in your ink, where it just does a bit of damage to them for standing in that area. then it could also help out with splating an enemy quicker. cuz the problem is that they could really just ignore mist and be relatively unphased yk.

I was surprised at how fun the angle marker/line shooter was to actually use when I tried out the new brella. I hope it stays in the game and actually becomes buffed enough to be valuable. The first change I wanna see is for all the utility subs to have their white-ink frames removed. Something like sprinkler or toxic mist would feel so much less bad to use if you could start recovering immediately. Toxic Mist needs to have it's cost halved, it's radius doubled or it's duration doubled. Or a less severe mix of all three. I would love it if Sprinkler got replaced with a sub that would slowly expand the paint it stood in. So it's a super helpful tool for slowly painting base or securing turf you're controlling. Overall I think for the game to thrive we need more (much more) than the two most vanilla bombs (wich are all the game would require to feel fully featured). But it would be nice if each weapon kit had access to both a damage sub AND a utility sub.

In my opinion: Point sensor and toxic mist should be combined and if you hit a player with the projectile, the effect should stick to them for a short period of time. Since they have the same tactics and effect (throw it on top of or in front of an enemy to discourage movement), it becomes a more versatile tool and rewards good aim. Since the effect is weaker than disruptor, it wouldn't be as oppressive but still effective. Curling bomb should not be a lethal bomb. Instead, make it a bit faster and larger. Increase the explosion size as well but do 60 damage in a torpedo pellet sized area, 35 in a splat bomb sized area, and 20 in a suction bomb sized area. Additionally, if it hits someone it should do 40 contact damage with a splat bomb-sized explosion that deals 20 damage and paints turf. This rewards good aim and timing, increases the likelihood of a collision, and makes collisions more useful. It can still be lethal if you time the fuse correctly and hit the person dead on, resulting in an initial 40 damage hit with the 60 damage finish, though this would be very inconsistent. Edit: Sprinkler should automatically aim at unpainted ground around it and be able to aim at players that get within its range. That would just be really funny.

They should make angle shooter line marker into a chargeable bomb. Basically make it a charger weapon. If you charge it up it can be a 1 hit splat at long range. I dont see the problem when chargers have splat bombs.

I think I would be fine with it of Spoon 4 released with 2 kits for each weapon, and one always had some type of bomb.

>(^._.^)< There, I made a cat!

Rework the sprinkler into a sprinkler drone that follows you and works while swimming and has more HP

I see most subweapon designs are pretty good. Even those classed as "good on some weapons, kit-ruining on others" are fine as that's a coordination issue. I see that and dev trust as being a separate issue entirely. The only subs I think are probably best left out are the ones that feel redundant, such as Curling doing almost nothing Fizzy doesn't

I like this not so because it's tiering things but more so because it's having a talk about many aspects I like in the game

Gem with the Kool teacher intro was fire dawg. 😎 From: a fellow boomer.

I think having only the top 2 tiers(except maybe suction) would be a really fun game, maybe have it that all weapons have splat and burst, then one from the second tier to choose from

🐈 Bam he said it couldn’t be done

What if point sensor can not only detect players but can also mark ink mines? BOOM. Counter-play added!!!

Torpedoes are my favorite sub, if you throw them askew and then approach an enemy they are forced to either take aim off of you and shoot it down or tank 60 damage and it works great when you find a teammate engaging an enemy and cannot reach them in time as it will also either combo or force who their engaging to redirect aim. It can also force you to move a charger player or waste their charged shot and give you a brief moment to move further in towards cover and continue to toss them to allow teammates to approach

I think that Gem/Mr. Squid School guy should become a RU-vidr.

0:00 imagine your middle school teacher starts class off like that. Best middle school teacher ever

i think a good way to buff marker would be making it paint the ground along its trail assuming its close enough to the ground and giving the trail some damage (prbly half of a direct hit) so the trail is actually useful, this allows the sub to have movement abilities which i think will make it feel better to play with and allow it to be actually useful in combat letting it hold of an area or direction someone wants to move for a short time. in order to keep this from making it too powerful the paint trail will be about the same as standard brellas launch trail and the ink radius for when it hits a wall will be nerfed slightly. hopefully this allows it to work with short and long range weapons becasuse the long range weapons get to mark enemy players and some extra damage and the short range players get slight mobility and area control. obviously the area control and paint cant be to strong because that would take away from the job of the main weapon but allowing it to control an area would make it actually viable because in its current state its just a worse point sensor.

Wild guess, the next video is main weapon design

I think wall should be more ink hungry, have only 400hp BUT follow the player, like what stamper is supposed to be but breakable. This would make it so that enemies have to focus on getting behind you or destroying the shield

Toxic Mist should make a cloud on the floor, stopping enemies from see what color it has, it would boost is area denial and add a support aspect, like helping teammates to backout or launch a surprise attack.

I like Sprinkler. It's great for weapons who don't have the time to throw a bomb because they're too ink hungry or need to keep up the crossfire, like Heavy or Snipewriter. It should never be on a frontliner like Tetra Dualies, though.

seaker got forgoten seaker is honestly better than curling bomb even if you can jump over them because if you aim the sub by holding r ninjasquid and hiders can be detekted from a distance without them knowing they were detected

Aight time for a wall of text I've been thinking on for a while mine: adds a slow effect like mist and can be deployed while firing sprinkler: paints whole area significantly faster and maintains a hitbox in the affected area around it in a small cylinder or disc thing and alerts when destroyed; later spin-down modes removed; ink usage lowered ;-; or we get rid of it outright and replace with burst bomb for everything that has it dart: tripwire does 20 damage and can natively throw 3 of them with just one main of ink saver sub cuz we ball; sticks around for longer so it can lock down an area (why not dump your whole ink tank in one area at line of sight; maybe you dink someone and they die or maybe not) curling: invert charging effect i.e. longer charge goes further OR leave it the same but lower ink usage by 40% and increase it more when charged as well as increasing the speed of movement; maybe just make it go way further or have it explode when it hits someone; white ink frames reduced for sure so you can recover more when swimming in the trail point sensor: fine; make it go further maybe wall: deployment time sped up slightly to make up for lag like they did for salmon run eggs; ink usage lowered and white ink frames reduced; make the whole wall thicker so you can shower in it cuz why not; give more weapons better damage scaling against it to compensate mist: deals damage as if the enemy was in your ink with no ink res; ink usage lowered; sticks to players on direct and deals double DOT damage beacon: small, small ping every few seconds that audibly alerts when an enemy is near it; white ink frames removed or less ink used by a lot succ: ink usage reduced slightly; can shoot to detonate, which is a niche interaction but very fun conceptually torpedo: on more weapons dammit; white ink reduced slightly fizzy: fine, but ink consumption scales with charge amount; maybe from 45% base to 55% and 65%, letting you just use it more autobomb: swims under your ink when tracking and over enemy ink as normal cuz we ball; no change in speed splat bomb: ink usage lowered very slightly just because why not burst bomb: on e liter because it's not broken; otherwise fine seeker: added to the game cuz fuck it we ball *and* it swims under your ink and over enemy ink when tracking, but can be shot down with like double or triple torpedo hp; small explosion when shot down, maybe 20 or 30 damage max cuz it still uses 80% of your ink tank dude; more white ink frames than dynamo

Alright heat me out. We combine ink mine and sprinkler. The sprinkler works the same but it shoots ink mines

I feel that The problem (exept for a few exteptions) is not that the subs are bad, and with a few buffs they could be good, but thenproblem is that the devs love putting subs and wepons that don't work together.

I think sprinklers should have a turret mode when an enemy player comes close to it. It only deals 10 damage per shot, but if they are walking past it, they would get hit like 5 times. In addition, have it paint faster at placement, like almost 2 seconds only for painting its area.

sprinkler designed for splatoon 3 is a sprinkler bomb. suction bomb paint instantly with more scatter droplets at current max sprinkler range with the trade off being non lethal max damage (part of me thinks 30 to keep the focus on paint output, but can still assist with combos)

Alternative idea, every weapon gets two subs and can press right/left d-pad to swap between them.

My idea for dart: Make it cost 70% and give it enough damage to kill, but make it fall off over distance, and make the tripwire deal damage

I smashed the like and subscribe button. My Chromebook won’t thank me for it.

I dabble in splatana deco in clam blitz - sneaking behind them (especially manta maria), placing a beacon, rushing back, getting a giga clam and jumping back is surprisingly easy and fun.

sprinkler kinda serves as a "this weapon probably will not use a sub" like pencil or tetras and in concept i kinda like a turret in splatoon, but yeah its either useless, uncounterable, or pushes special spam and passive gameplay, so yeah altho i like the thing sometimes i really think it should be reworked

I feel like the game would benefit from two possible sub weapons, so we wouldnt have the problem of some weapons being unable to poke. Everyones guaranteed a bomb for one slot, and the other slot is for the more niche subs (wall, mist, beakon, sensor, marker, mine)

That intro 🤣

Now for serious, if one could throw a second sprinkler to act like multiple turrets then it would become useful or a least niche than just putting one a let it watch getting destroyed at frame one by a charger or bucket

If splat and burst are the exceptions, get rid of them. I have more fun in solo playing against teams that only have 1-2 lethal subs. Running into teams with 4x lethal subs usually results in stalemates and accidental frags.

Can't believe this dumb pfp of my dumb cat was useful for something but here I am anyway the best sub will be fizzy bomb only when it becomes part of the soda slosher's kit, hopefully in s4 so it doesn't mix too much with tri-nouveau

Personally, as a Splat Roller main, I would rather have a different bomb than curling bomb. Sure, the slightly quicker mobility is nice, but, that’s all it really offers for the roller. Combined with the Big Bubbler giving you no extra range or attack power like other specials can, I would prefer having a different kit that deals with the roller’s lack of range a bit better.

The only things I would nerf are the Burst Bomb's range and the Squid Beakons' Sub Power Up effect. It would be better if half of the sub weapons were buffed; Splatoon would be boring without them. Third kits should be a normal thing, maybe even for all main weapons. Also, fuse Sensor and Mist into a sub weapon that bounces once.

Angle shooter isn't great, but I'd take it over point sensor, beakons, mist, or sprinkler. It can still be used to irritate things like E-liters and create a long tripwire to locate people sharking. Honestly if they would just add a small damage component to the line itself to aid in damage combos, I think that would be a big improvement. (And the ceiling shot idea is amazing.)🐈

I personally really like location Subs, so it’s a shame how few of them there are and how weak they are. I think they make Solo Queue much more fun, especially at higher ranks, because they allow for strategy and communication that is typically only possible in a coordinated team environment. If I notice an opponent flanking us, I can hit them with a Point Sensor or Angle Shooter to give my frontliners a visual indicator that there is a threat behind them and they need to be on their guard. Just for uses like that, I think they are worth having in the game. I do think it would be dangerous to add too many location Subs or make them too good, because stealth is an extremely unique and fun part of Splatoon, and if every team had multiple location-capable weapons, that would make stealth almost impossible and indirectly nerf a lot of weapons. I think we only need 2-3 location Sub weapons, but that means they all need to be good at locating in very different ways. I’ll start by looking at Angle Shooter, because I honestly think it has enough complexity and utility to be an interesting and worthwhile Sub weapon someday, it just needs some key buffs. This Sub specializes in locating single targets and scouting around corners. I think a big thing that holds this Sub back is its extremely high skill floor. It is frankly too difficult for the majority of players to hit direct shots with it. I think just slightly increasing the size of the main projectile's hitbox would help a lot with this. The reticle issues are another thing that make this Sub hard to pick up. The Angle Shooter's trajectory not lining up with the reticle of your main weapon stems from Splatoon being a 3D third person game, and it's not really a problem that we can "just fix". But why not just make the reticle change position to better represent the Angle Shooter's trajectory when you hold down R? It wouldn't be very helpful at a competitive level, where you need to be able to hit shots without having to line up your aim for multiple seconds, but for players just picking up the Sub and learning its quirks, it would go a long way helping them settle in. (Edit: it turns out the Angle Shooter basically already does this, so nevermind) And again, for how difficult it is to hit directs, they should be more rewarding. The tracking time on a direct hit should go up from 5 seconds to 8 seconds, same as a Point Sensor, and the tracking time from touching the tail should only be half of that, 4 seconds. We could also make the tail hang around for a little longer. One thing I don't think needs any more buffs on the Angle Shooter is the damage. Going from 35 to 40 made its combos more lenient, but with how far and fast it can fly for so cheap, any further could be dangerous. I also don't think the tail should be able to damage enemies either. It would either be underwhelming or overpowered, and I think we should focus more on rewarding good aim and buffing its locating power. If all those changes were made, I think Angle Shooter would be able to compete with bombs and stand apart from Point Sensor as a unique location-focused Sub weapon. Speaking of Point Sensor, how could we improve it? It's not as desperate for buffs as Angle Shooter, mostly because it focuses on doing only one thing, and doing it extremely well: locating opponents. The radius is huge, and the tracking time is long. However, that also makes it less interesting and means there are less dials we can turn if we want to adjust it. Personally, I think it needs a new mechanic: rolling. Instead of sticking a huge locating AOE where it lands, I think the AOE should be attached to a physics-affected object that you can roll across the ground, like a Torpedo or Splat Bomb. The AOE would start when the object first hits the ground, then stick around for as long as the object is moving. This would allow you to roll it down a corridor to catch any enemies hiding down its length, or roll it off a ledge to catch sharks. It would probably need a small radius nerf to keep it from being too oppressive, but the trade off of a much longer, travelling AOE should be worth it. If not, it could go down 5% to 40% ink usage to make up for it. I like this change because it basically just enhances Point Sensor's strengths, those being the ability to locate in a wide area, as well as under and over ledges. Compared to Angle Shooter's focus on locating at a distance and around corners, the two Sub weapons complement each other beautifully. Both focus heavily on locating, but go about it in entirely different ways. Of course, there is one more Sub weapon with locating capability, although it doesn't focus on it nearly as much as the other two: Ink Mine. While Angle Shooter focuses mostly on locating and and a little bit on damage, and Point Sensor focuses entirely on locating, Ink Mine divides its attention almost equally between locating, damage, and paint. I think the reason this Sub feels underwhelming is because you usually only get value from one, maybe two of those abilities at a time. If you're playing Splat Zones and use them to help the zone stay painted, they'll probably go off when they get painted over, in which case they probably won't hit anyone. If you're placing them in alternate routes to alert you when an opponent tries to flank, the opponent will probably be all healed by the time you get to them. If you're a slow weapon using them to defend against opponents that try to rush you down, the location power isn't very helpful when they're running right at you. Ink Mine can cover a lot of different situations, but it doesn't do anything especially well. Honestly, if it got removed, I would not be heartbroken and it would probably save us from some terrible kits. But it is a pretty unique idea, so if we have to save it, here's what I would change. First, 3 max mines instead of 2. This increases the chances you'll actually have a mine in an advantageous spot. Second, from 60% to 50% ink usage. With more max mines, you need more ink to place them. Third, you now deploy mines by throwing a little contraption that sets one up where it lands. Only being able to place mines exactly where you are is extremely limiting, so be able to throw them even a short distance will be very helpful. However, you will indeed only be able to throw them a very short distance. None of these changes fix the fundamental problem that Ink Mine is a very conditional tool that will only get you good value in specific situations, but they at least increase the chances that you'll actually encounter those situations. Some other miscellaneous thoughts I had during the video: I love Beakons because they add so much big picture strategy to the game. Splash Wall is simple, but being able to just say no to enemy shots and even some Specials feels so good. They only work on some weapons, but some Subs don't need lots of kits. I don't mind not getting many Beakon and Wall weapons as long they're good. I can't imagine a Splatoon game without them. Honestly, Curling Bomb should just be removed from the game. As Gem pointed out in the Angle Shooter section, not having a Sub you can lob over ledges is a huge weakness. Angle Shooter makes up for it with all its other strengths and functionality, but Curling Bomb really suffers for it. Fizzy Bomb truly just outclasses it in every way. Buff Fizzy's paint trail at zero charge, give it to weapons like Splat Roller and Sploosh that want a movement tool, and let the Seeker/Curling Bomb lineage rest. Sprinkler is a Sub that I want to love, but it really is just bad. I saw someone else suggest it be reworked into a sentry or turret that still mostly focuses on painting, but can actually deal some damage, which sounds cool. I think any change that makes Sprinkler more capable of working in upfront, aggressive positions would make it more healthy and viable. Maybe instead of sticking to surfaces, it floats above wherever it lands, at Inkjet height or so. Give it a little more health, and then opponents have to choose between letting it paint, giving you special charge and paint control, or looking up to shoot it down. Sort of how Torpedo and Booyah Bomb work. It's probably better just to get rid of it though. Toxic Mist is one Sub that I'm not convinced is worth keeping around. It's definitely very powerful on certain modes, namely Rainmaker and Clam Blitz, but it's pretty weak in Tower Control, and almost anything would be better in Splat Zones and Turf War. It's not an outright kit killer, but it does ensure the weapon will only have a niche in specific modes, which I'm not a fan of. Maybe there's a way to make it more valuable in modes that are less reliant on chokepoints and map layout, but I can't think of anything.

Ok line marker, Keep the current range, but make it so after each bounce the range extends. Now you can have the actually cool spy laser room effect, without the 2% rare occasion someone snipes me from their base to mine. Oh, and uh, make the tail do damage. Everybody knows this is obvious. How has Nintendo not done it...

Make line marker a swimmable ink rail Make sprinkler projectiles replenish a bit of tank on self or allies they hit, so it's also a bit of pseudo-cover or an aoe buff

I hope we get to choose whatever sub we want on any weapon in splatoon 4 That'd force the devs to balance the subs

Roller main here. If they take away my curling bomb + ninja squid combo I’ll riot 😠

They should really combine some subs. these are gonna be some hot takes. Ditch burst bomb. every weapon that uses it for combos, either give them torpedo or dart the dart rework is to make it deal a little bit more damage for every time it hits a wall. this way it's buffed in cqc, can be used for absurd combos, and doesnt incentivize a long range triple dart camping strat. i forget where i heard this or if i even just made it up. probably also give it some minor aim assist when bouncing, and also fix the damn reticle give every curling bomb weapon fizzy instead. fizzy is just more interesting. give every splat bomb weapon either fizzy or suction. i feel like suction and splat are redundant of each other but some getting fizzy is to account for the different roles splat bomb sometimes plays on different weapons. drop beakon. it serves a role however i feel like at lower levels its exclusively used to rat around in enemy spawn, which is extremely obnoxious. in higher levels people already know to back up and give jumps. its redundant. though i wouldnt be opposed to their inclusion in a special a-la big bubbler. drop toxic mist, it is exclusively annoying. thats all. like its good in a way that just makes me hate it. ditch the sprinkler and mine for the reasons listed in video. what that leaves is Fizzy, Torpedo, Suction, Autobomb, Wall, Point Sensor, and a buffed Dart.

Line marker: Even more range, 10 tripwire damage, 15 ricochet damage (between SB long and RB aoe range), 35% ink cost, piercing with damage fall of to 10.

I think that every sub weapon (with some buffs to the bottom 3 and point sensor) would be totally awesome if they designed better and more fun kits. Right now the only kits that makes me think woah that’s cool, are splat roller and new Squiffer, which I feel is way too few

I would be fine with just the top two tiers and wall.

I think that a neat work around to what your saying might be to have a game where every kit has a sub weapon attached to it from the yellow tier to the orange tier but then have the option of splat bomb or burst bomb if they want it. I still don't know how slosher burst bomb would turn out though.

Keep mines but only in side order where you can make it very funny by maxing sub radius & knockback