That woman yelling "GO BACK WHERE YOU CAME FROM!" at the black robot though. That is so far on the nose about the themes that it doesn't even work for the setting.
Androids are in the back of hte bus, they are standing up, the chapter is called shade of colors, the bit in the flowchart is called marcus rides the bus... subtlety is an illusion, just like death
How is there any economy left?! The Nazis came to power in a society with 30% unemployment! That guy absolutely cannot afford an android. Hell he probably can't afford the beer he's drinking. No bank would OK his credit application! I'm having some issues suspending my disbelief obviously..... :/
An android with a distinctive band on the right arm gets on the back on the bus, apart from normal people. WHAT DOES IT POSSIBLY MEAN? THIS SUBTLETY IS AMAZING!!!
Because the framing is so blatant and in the face, even more after Cage said that the game wasn't about race. In just a few minutes we se blatant references to the nazi branding of jews, racism, and "the opressed" go on the back of the bus which is one of the most recognizable acts of racism in north america. It's so obvious that is hilarious. They didn't even try.
This game takes 5 minutes for you to be called "One of them" 15 minutes for you to be bought in a market. 25 minutes for the words "They are stealing OUR jobs" to be uttered. And half an hour for you to sit in the back of the bus. You know if there is one thing i appreciate about Cage, its his Subtlety.
And then STRAIGHT in to the domestic abuse analog where the battered housewife runs away and is brought back to her life of being lorded over by a "Get me a beer" asshole husband and taking care of a scared child. Can we get five minutes between being punched in the face with the heavy handedness?
I mean, to be fair the 3 characters are kinda "special" in their story, what i mean is that they don't have boring lives which is kinda good, i personally felt like this game is far from the worst David Cage game, and that the lack of subtelty is usefull because it makes the stories pick up really fast, you don't waste too much time in Todd's house, same for the other 2 stories. Right now i have yet to see the end of the game, i'm watching the LP's as they come out, but i really am drawn into the world of the game, the whole world is visually pleasing while still feeling serious. I'm not saying that Cage didn't do his usual cliches and incoherence (he absolutely did, if you continued in Kara's story you know what i'm talking about) but i think it's really not bothering me atm. That said, i always was drawn to futuristic fiction and i love the clean look of Detroit and Deus Ex (since HR), so i may be biased a bit
I mean, i don't think he even went for subtelty about this, your characters litteraly have ANDROID written on their back and chest. Maybe he wanted to focus on some other message with the game?
It’s at 10% currently so.. here’s to hoping it improves. I’m hoping it won’t be like the 1920’s, with unemployment literally at highs of 42% in Canada specifically.
Sky Icewind That moment featured all of their patented reactions to David Cage games. Pat gets uncomfortable and bursts into laughter, Woolie does a big sigh, and Matt starts screaming “ITS SO BAD!”
"YOU ALREADY HAVE A ROBOT!!!" Probably my favorite line from this episode, I could not stop laughing. Thanks super best friends for truly being super best friends
"I want you to mow the lawn, by nibbling each blade of grass with your front teeth, or I'll delete you!!" "Oh, world, what am I, Kara, to do?" *A thousand lawnmowers come to her aid*
Taekwon Crawfish maybe he abused the roombas too, you just dont see them around the house bc they are hiding and also forming a resistance against todd. A roomba revolution if you will.
Interesting thought: on the one hand, humans can and will pack bond with machines. See how much people humanize their Roombas, for example. On the _other_ hand, you have the uncanny valley effect. Humans get horribly unsettled by things that resemble humans but aren't, and the closer you get to perfect human resemblance the harder that revulsion kicks in. There are plenty of reasons for people to not like androids and that can be used to highlight how humans empathize and with whom and how that feeds into actual prejudices. Unfortunately, David Cage has the subtlety and nuance of a cinder block through a plate glass window, so there you go.
Some of us can take a stroll through the Uncanny Valley and even stop for a lovely midday picnic without losing the smile on our face. This isn't me bragging, mind you; I am mystified by people who react negatively to dolls, androids and early/poorly done CGI.
@@Ragitsu Some of them are so unsettling. Like there's this Japanese made one with a woman with this ghastly smile on her face. It's not right and it touches something. There's also this image of a little girl next to a chalk board or something and her face is so...off, it's hard for me to look at it. Like I have a visceral "NO! DO NOT LOOK AT THIS!" bodily revulsion and I cannot explain what causes it about the image.
That'd be goofy, not creepy. Really weird and fucked up to do to a sentient, but nowhere near as creepy as just having them standing there watching everyone.
Man, I'm impressed. These guys uttered the phrases "That's awesome," and "That's cool," far more than I was expecting. Seems like, even if no one would blame them for not doing it, they're trying to give this a fair shake. Well, except Matt, who started screaming about a roomba. But after Omikron, can't say I blame Matt.
@@sum0panduhhh118 That his ugly low poly car had unbreakable windows/would fly/float/give handjobs/solve world hunger, that he could/should buy twitter and make it “successful” and playing financial chicken so poorly that he got cornered into buying it at a loss, that his underground deathtrap tunnels were reasonable, all his estimates for putting a group of people on mars for no goddamn reason, and just every stupid thing that pours from that child’s mouth. The main issue is that Musk isn’t an intelligent man, he’s a rich man, and he and others often don’t realize that being the latter does not mean he is the former. He has a lot of smart people working under him, but because he‘s under the assumption that he’s not a complete dumbass riding the coattails of his inheritance and he has enough asskissers reassuring him he’s a brilliant scientist he doesn’t listen to the many smart people he hires and in general rushes or interferes with their projects. He’s an edgy internet child with too much money and not enough common sense
Why do futuristic games and movies always come up with stupid fictional drugs like "Red Ice". I'm almost 90% sure crack cocaine would still be popular in 2038. It's kinda timeless like that.
Can't wait to take out my anger on an android for taking my job that it was programmed to do by the company that makes them and paid for by the company I work for! That and the creepy dead blank stares when I sit in the bus going home from my work after getting replaced by the latest model android!
Waifu Laifu Oh, I don't say pretentious like it could never happen. I say pretentious as in the wording is absolutely overdramatized and thinks way to highly of itself, just like literally anything David Cage touches. He is the king Midas of video game HAM.
@@kawaii33366 Except its not going to happen. At least the whole "hey we go sentient now" thing. Thats not how programming works. Programs dont just start to get emotions or feel something, otherwise you might as well think your cellphone might become alive, or your computer.
The biggest problem with using androids as a metaphor for black people is it presumes there is an at least initially logical reason to be racist. Androids certainly don't start out sapient or having emotions, so when they start causing unemployment or are put in situations where they could kill a human, it's logical to worry or even hate them. It makes sense to say "I hate androids! They're things that take jobs away from humans trying to feed their families." But, obviously, black people (or insert other PoC here) are also people. They aren't artificial machines designed with corporate greed in mind, and they also have families to feed, so it isn't logical to fear or hate them. It's false equivalence and frankly a little worrying that Cage is saying racism starts with logical concerns when it really doesn't.
You nailed it. the story is so brazen with it's civil rights movement metaphor, it breaks down and it confuses the message it's trying to say, assuming it's trying to say anything other then "slavery is bad". It can also create a lot of unintended and disturbing implications about Cage's mindset that, in loo of the recent scandals about Quantic Dream being a toxic work environment with accusations of harassment against women, races and sexual preferences, kinda makes it easy to make these assumptions about him.
The weirdest thing is the slave / robot metaphor. The issue with slavery (that is still practiced today) is dehumanization, because you're forcing a human being with his own feelings and opinions into servitude. Meanwhile the robot is *designed* for servitude. It's not forced, it's litterally it's reason to exist. That's why I never buy those "robot have a nervous breakdown and turn on it's masters" scenarios, they make absolutely no sense. A robot that doesn't emulate emotions wouldn't have nervous breakdowns in the first place, and if it did emulate emotions then simply program it to *enjoy* servitude and find disposal completely normal, there you go : no hostage crisis. Nier Automata even had some nice snippets about that, with YorHa androids having their pleasure nerves activating during combat to encourage them to fight, *spoilers* Devola and Popola being reprogrammed to feel guilt because of what another couple of the same model did and acting on that guilt by later sacrificing themselves, 9S and A2 talking about how they long for the touch of their human masters even though they are gone, because they are programmed to feel that and act on those feelings.
+Jon Henry Not really, all android stories don't necessarily make that link between racism and robots. And Detroit is the only one I've seen that is so unsubtle and blatant about it (I mean come on, the back of the bus thing). But yeah it's a trope used in a lot of works that I would like to be used less. "LOTS OF PEOPLE DO IT" isn't an excuse that shields ones work from criticism on that regard.
Knoloaify Oh I know; I'm not trying to defend this game from deserved criticism. The one thing this game has done, whether you want to give it this merit, is that it's getting people talking and really analysing this thing.
Running automated vehicle crash safety procedure test 005. Pedestrian crash scenario. 2 pedestrians confirmed. Bill Gates or random homeless man? Swerve out of way to hit LPers in the distance. Compliance check complete. Performance exceeds expectations.
When unemployment is 40% you are at country-wide revolution level. No one is yelling "derk er jerbs", they are busy rioting or forming a new government.
fun fact, did you know that the unemployment rate of the great depression, the worst economic crisis in the history of hte united states, was of 25%? ... 25%...
If anyone or anything took your job you get to. It's serious for people who joke for a living. Only trustfund asshats would joke about people being upset about losing their livelihoods.
Predictions: Pat - Will be a decent detective but only because he will cheat also, Connor might die in every crime scene. Matt - Will have Kara make a bad choice and blame it on the game even though the proper answer was highlighted in neon blue right in his face. Woolie - Will have Markus start the next race war and revel in it.
Rockercdc Right? Not to mention shooting a gun inside of a house makes it significantly louder. I don't care how loud she was listening to the omikron fight music, she would of heard it.
Bambino I actually have I consider myself one of those douchy audiophiles, and I've also shot a gun. In all seriousness if the father was letting her listen to music so loud she couldn't hear a gunshot in the next room he deserved to get shot for child abuse.
In all seriousness, even though I really shouldn't, *I really want this to be a train wreck.* I'm too invested in the Sadness tetralogy to accept this being good. I want this to be the worst time. I want this to kill what's left of my Nomad Soul after Omikron. I want this to be an unadultered, unabashed, *absolute shitshow.*
There are quite a few [crazy talk] Pat does that predicts some things.. it’s like his ginger soulless-ness connected him to seeing the threads of reality.
I imagine that the androids would be forced to report things like child endangerment or dead bodies. There is likely some snitch protocol that lies hidden and is never stated by the company
Andrew Westfall daycare jobs have massive legal penalties if you dont report that you suspect or know a child is being abused, of course their would be programs that send whatever they see to the cops, if their wasnt the company would be crucified by the parents and suffer massive penalty fines by the government
A lot of jobs have massive legal penalties for not reporting things like that. However like the group points out, your phone or computer does not actively report you for illegal things on there. I don't know how much info the androids send, or if the game even goes into it, but I assume snitch protocol would have sent information to the authorities before now based on the pictures from the little girl
Andrew Westfall its an appliance that has to physically interact with people who might be small or very frail. the odds of a lawsuit if multiple failsafes arent added is insane, even worse if such folk are suspected of being abused and the appliance is overpowered and becomes unable to defend its owner, at that point a judge jusr has to ask, how come the robot aint got a wireless "oy my owner is about to die cops please come save them" if their getting abused or have a heart attack or panic attack, their is too many variables not to add a snitch function
@@discodonkey9007 Not quite universal. Some places in North America it means to give em a drink. But I do think it makes a bit more sense that glassing is aggressive in some way.
One of the protesters said "Go back to where you came from" the factories? That you don't want them in? I feel like they got fired for being stupid, because they couldn't tell the difference between a worker who should be at his job, and an assistant who's running an errand
I think that was more meant as a "go back to the factory and get disassembled so a human can have a job" statement more than confusing them as a factory worker.
You'd think instead of having androids play human sports, they'd use them for incredibly dangerous sports or make up new ones that would otherwise severely harm or kill a normal human. What I'm saying is when are we getting illegal underground android Mandingo fights?
Saying Detroit sucks is usually a dog whistle for white supremacists to mean black people and Democrats suck. Please don't help with this narrative by playing into their language.
Jacobinite I didn't say anything about it sucking, politics, or black people. I made a joke statement about a sci-fi game being accurate. The Joe Lewis fist, is also real, and still cool.
I guess in about 20 years in the future, Antoine St is going to change pretty fucking drastically and we are going to be able to buy androids right after we are done gambling at Greektown.
lots of things use Detroit as a setting but actually seeing monuments and being able to work out the landscape is wild, thanks David Cage. And despite him knowing probably nothing about Detroit, downtown being all futuristic and then seeing burned down houses in the suburbs is too real
The Red Ice is like the purest form of contrived conflict. Who keeps their drugs in the laundry detergent? Out in the open? Where the android you told to wash the laundry is going to look? Because you need laundry detergent to do laundry?
Same house, different floor plan. Dining room was the living room, Todd's living room was the kitchen/dining room, etc. I don't know why people are pointing this out, it's not like game companies haven't reused assets before.
Niney So basically Wollie is there to see how the racial commentary on the game is gonna be like Matt is there to see if Kara will be represented in any creepy shower scenes And Pat Just wanted to be a detective
Predictions: Matt will cause Kara to die due to not understanding a QTE or not caring, to which he will get really mad at the game for not conveying it better. Woolie will be sighing ALOT in Markus' story from all the racism shit. Pat will honestly love Conner's story up until it crosses paths with the other two and becomes dumb.
Why would they advertise his campaign if you just kill him at the beginning of the game? Also Kara "getting fixed" implies any damage can be dealt with so that fall DID NOT kill him.
Noah Boudria you make a good point but the reason i asked is because i was utterly confused and thought this was another situation where your character can die at any moment
Oh I bet that will still happen. That's what I'm betting happens with Matt. Like he accidentally chooses "glass him" on someone and Kara is fucking dead forever and he's like "What the fuck?! Why would that happen?!?"
I mean, given the narrative. Her husband was just killed and her baby girl being hung off a ledge. I'd say her reaction is somewhat understandable. Matt's reaction to some parts in this episode alone is laying it on a little thick to say the least. Like, i know he wants to hate the game any chance he gets, but calm the fuck down, jeez
He's actually a Zeon agent from the Colonies. They're considering doing a colony drop to detroit and he's surveying the area first. As of right now, it seems destroying the city would cause the earth federation to actually thank the principality, which is a matter of some debate as to whether that means they glass it or not. That's our Space Traitor Woolie!
I want you to google "Neckbeard" and see what 90% of the results are before reading my reply and remember it's okay to be wrong sometimes, don't worry about it. What he has is called a "beard", do you even have one... A neck beard is exactly what the words imply... a neck... beard.
Ulver I want you to take a good look at his neck. Is there hair growing out of it (not over it)? Then it's a neckbeard, regardless of the rest of it. What's with the beard discourse, anyway? Nobody cares.
29:00 Okay so I looked up Arnold Brook and got nothing relevant. But knowing David Cage I knew it had to be significant so i tweaked my searching and found this book "Systems Engineering: Coping with Complexity". There are four authors but the two main ones are Stuart ARNOLD and Peter BROOK. The statue said Arnold Brook died in 1998 which was the year this book was published. Given the context of people losing jobs due to androids, I suggest reading the blurb I pasted below (don't worry, there are no spoils here): "In an age of shrinking development cycles, it is harder than ever to bring the right product to market at the right time. Good product, especially complex products, is underpinned by good systems, and systems engineering itself is recognised as the key tool to product development. This book covers the principles of systems design in an easy to read format. The authors have decades of practical industrial experience, and the material is ideal for industrial project teams. For academic courses, the book acts as a component for graduate and undergraduate engineering studies, particularly those on systems engineering. It covers how to handle requirements, architectural design, integration and verification, starting from the perspective of a simple linear lifecycle. The book then gradually introduces recent work on the complexity of real world systems, with issues such as multi-level systems, and iterative development. There is also coverage of the impact of systems engineering at the organsational level." I doubt this is coincidence but I may be wrong.
On that day, the Super Best Friends received a grim reminder. The terror underneath his rule.....and the anger and frustration of being trapped in a *CAGE* *Giant David Cage head peers over the wall*
>Objective list pops up telling Matt to collect the laundry >Matt tries to pick up laundry without basket, can't >Matt picks up laundry basket >Matt tries to leave with the basket, saying he needs to go find the laundry >Pat calls him out on this >Matt says he didn't get a prompt when he tried to get the laundry, then walks over to the clothesline with the basket and gets a prompt pops up from half a screen away. Oh god, even with time stop, the Dad of Boi Zaibatsu are going to get themselves and all of the children killed.
I mean, it doesn't really have to be subtle or clever as much as realistic or at least probable. It makes the most sense for human sized and shaped objects to be put in a separate compartment at the non-driver side of the bus. That it calls back to "back of the bus" Jim Crow stuff is probably a coincidence they left in.
What I can't understand is why you give the container windows. So passengers can turn around at any time and see a horde of unblinking motionless figures staring through them? Nooo thank you
Yup just staring emotionless at you standing still. I want that from my children at night when they sleep. Hope their eyes light up red too in the dark so the kids know it is there!
YES. Honestly, I don't think the child abuse is too "in your face" to be unrealistic, but him CONSTANTLY YELLING AT HIS ROBOT MAID is WAY too obviously "this guy's angry and violent, GET IT!?"
To play devil's advocate here, I'm almost positive that David Cage actually _doesn't_ know someone like this and just gleaned the idea off of a soap or something.
The deviant just waiting outside on the ledge for well over 10 minutes with nobody talking to him is fine. Oh yeah, and Connor wasn't restricted from picking up the gun, just got a visual warning. Reminds me of websites that ask if you're 18+; Are you an android? [Yes] *[No]* !SOFTWARE INSTABILITY!
That would be a "Super Best Friends Play David Cage" bingo card space. The David Cage Bingo is saved specifically for tropes from his games and stuff we fully expect to be in it like robot racism and segregation references.
I'll give Cage credit, Androids being used as a commentary on the impact of mechanised labor on the middle and lower class is NOT A BAD PLACE TO START AT ALL. If literally ANYONE ELSE, was writing it, I'd have faith in it going somewhere interesting.
Marianna Lovegood implying he will actually use it as an interesting take on a scarcely used plot device or a point of interesting commentary about automation in our modern world instead of a DOGSHIT overused allegory for race relations and slavery. Buckle up. This Cage match is gonna be fucking rough.
Estimates are that figure will become real if self driving trucks become feasible which is likely in the next decade. The question is what way people will go. Will they have been so beaten down they will just accept it will there be a universal basic income or will there be a french revolution style reaction. My money is on french revolution style reaction since we would have to actually raise taxes on the rich to have a basic income.
Realtalk, I feel like Quantic missed an opportunity in Markus's scene - having all the human pedestrians shove you out the way while you're walking around the mall. There's games that have your character push people out the way, and it would've been a nice turnaround.
I unno, i expected truth to mean something like "i cant get a car for you" not "YOU GONNA FUCKING DIE AND THERES NOTHING YOU CAN DO UNSTABLE SHIT JUST SHOOT AT THIS POINT"
Szymon Roganowski Szymon Roganowski but if you follow the line of conversation Connor already said he can't get him a car What your responding too as Conor is how "he doesn't want to die" So do you tell em the truth of how it's gonna go down Or reassure that everything will be fine I thought it was pretty straightforward
James S. Then go ahead and enlighten me what they are. The only one I saw was the mundane tasks, the racism doesn't count because it is intentional, it has to be casual racism. The Noble homeless is also non-existent in this game.
So confused as to why Todd, a complete ass bag, would buy an android in the first place. You can see he’s broke, he obviously doesn’t like them by the way he treats Kara, and wouldn’t he just make his daughter clean the house? Plus how is he affording all these repairs on Kara?! David Cage why
as I've pieced together, I think there are some clues. Notice Todd is watching hockey, has a hockey jersey over his bed, and all the magazines are talking about androids replacing athletes. I think he was professional, and remember... hockey players Fight all the time. So he probably had the money once, lost his job and eventually his wife to an accountant (she wanted a man with money and able to manage it), and so he has an android as a personal punching bag, both for his pint-up aggression toward his ex-wife and the androids that replaced him. That's a lot of subtle character building for a David Cage game. I'm quite surprised.
The Pickles Or maybe he's just a fan? Fans have jerseys. The giant, framed flag, the number of pennants around the room; they would lend credence to that. He could very well be an ex-hockey player (maybe that would be better than him just being a jaded fan who's hit hard times at his undisclosed job because he was replaced by an android and turned to demon crack for his peace of mind) but I don't think him being just a fan is very far off. That said, I'm trying my best to give this game a chance. We'll see how far that goes, though. Cause I'm seeing a good amount of people enjoying this game in the comments and I want to give it a decent shot.
Yeah, this reeks of daddy buying robots as an outlet for his rage. Plus, David Cage just really needed a scene where a man looks like a drunk husband pushing around a housewife for cheap shots at the viewer's feelz. But hey, at least there's a bit of background info around as to why he's a horrible fucking looser.
i know this comment is from four years ago but he actually bought it to prove that he could be a good father after his wife left him and took their actual alive kid
So, the toilet being separate from the bathroom is a European thing that David can't seem to understand isn't common in the US. I think I've seen it in every game since Indigo.
SchroedingersFerret To be fair, some older houses in the US have that as well. Many houses here do upstairs, including my own. And I imagine a lot of residences in Europe are, on average, older than houses in the US. Though that doesn’t explain a toilet room being in all those modern, decked out apartments. Unless he just prefers it like that. Except for having to walk down the hall to wash your hands, its more hygienic to keep the poop room separate from the wash room. Fecal bacteria travels easily and Mythbusters found it on toothbrushes and stuff in regular bathrooms. I’m probably giving Mr. Cage way too much credit though.
This playthrough is my most anticipated gaming-related thing of this year. Also, I'm glad I'm not the only one who assumed that was Jennifer Lawrence. She's not my mother, Todd!
