@@kaitoshion5236 Though without a leaderboard we only know about those who publicize themselves... Is Aurateur really the record? reeeeally? A leaderboard would make that not a question... and it would make more people want to try... or want to cheese the system like ryukahr described 🤷♀️🤷♂️
12:12 it's actually way more complicated than that. The following is a rather technical explanation of what Nintendo did wrong. I'm a Computer Scientist in college and even though networking is not my forte (I'm more into computer vision), I think I know enough to explain this. Believe it or not, peer to peer is actually widely considered the better method when dealing with a small number of players (less than 4 or so), so it should be great for Mario Maker. The problem is the way Nintendo handles thier net code, and more particularly how they deal with missed packets, aka lag. The industry standard is to continue the game logic on all systems and use the most up to date information available for each player, then updating everything suddenly once new information is received, which results in player stuttering (you can see this especially in the Mario battle Royale clip), potentially desync insues, and worst of all makes it much easier for cheaters to exploit. However, Nintendo makes the game logic wait for all the players to send thier information, which results in the entire game stuttering (and the effect is accumulated for each additional player). It would take a lot of work for Nintendo to implement a proper system that prevents lag, desync issues, and cheaters, but since they are charging money for the system they totally should. But sadly we are all giving them money for it anyway, so they have no incentive to actually fix the issue.
I know I am super late to respond to this, but you are absolutely right here. Nintendo had one chance to do multiplayer, and they decided to do it. You can't have a Mario Maker level with crazy interactions happening every 60th of a second without at least one internet issue causing lag. If they designed Mario around time based logic instead of frame based, it wouldn't be a true "original" Mario experience. If everyone had fast internet, no one would complain about SMM2's multiplayer.
Ahh, the popular expert level tab. Aka the speed-run with tons of coin, sound effects, and why the heck not lets throw in a check point while we are at it tab.
I remember, how I was in a hospital when SMM2 came out and youtube was reccomending it to me all the time, even though I didn't watch Mario at all. Throughout the entire week I was there I watched your videos, and decided to buy a switch a week later. Thanks Ryu.
Lag in multiplayer. That's it, that's all I need to be fixed and I would spend hours and hours playing this game only. Yet it doesn't seem we're going to get that anytime soon :/
I definitely am a Nintendo player. It's been sad for me to see them uniformly make the decision to not embrace a technology point and end up losing out. Like not allowing DVD player utility on the Wii, or not transitioning to discs until everyone else was there, or the P2P lag issues mentioned. Nintendo has always had great products, but they are always "Great, but...."
The lag exists by design. The netcode has the multiplayer server sync its speed to the player with the worst connection so there is no hiccups and everything is guaranteed to sync. It's not a bug, it's a choice they made.
@@Turovale The most retarded choice they could make. Did they really think the whole world has a stable connection!? I honestly think they only took Japan into account for this.
@@Turovale exactly what I mean. Deliberate design choices to not do what everyone else is doing. To reiterate the Wii thing, not doing a DVD player when others were doing hddvd and BluRay.
I bought SMM2 last Christmas after watching you, Carl, and Geek for years, just to make troll levels (which I still haven't completed one yet). So they got my money based on Mario Maker streamers!
Bought the game because ryu, carl and poo made it seems really appealing. Spoilers: IT FREAGIN IS! ("ps:doesn't change the fact that i suck at it though.")
Take your time. Bad or mediocre troll levels are lazy and skilless, but truly great troll levels are masterclasses in player manipulation, mind games, and comedic timing.
Probably a lot more but these are what I can think of off the top of my head. 1. More multiplayer options, such as 2v2 mode or Battle Royale. 2. Lag in multiplayer is obviously a problem. 3. Better super world search options, as well as making lives have more meaning in super worlds. 4. I think there should be way more music options for levels. That would be awesome. 5. More search options for creators/levels, like maybe the ability to search by username/level name.
I want to hopefully add some unique perspective. You pointed out that there are many who find it fun to watch, but not fun to play, and I sort of fall into this category. But not because I don't have fun playing. Lemme just start by saying I love Mario Maker. The communities surrounding the game have provided many of my online friends, who I would be much worse without. So all of this criticism comes from the hopes that Mario Maker will grow and get better as time goes on. I used to love building courses. I built the Elite Castle levels in Mario Maker 1 and by interacting with the large community of small streamers, my courses got a considerable amount of plays and likes. It felt satisfying to make courses because I knew they would be enjoyed. That's what Mario Maker is for: Making courses so people can have a fun time on them. Time skip to Mario Maker 2, all the new features were so exciting and I loved making some new courses. I made what I consider the best course I've ever made on MM2, and I still love it to this day. But even though I made some genuinely good courses, nobody was playing them. The game's algorithms didn't bring any players to my courses. Some sat at 0 likes or 0 plays for a while. It became discouraging to pour *hours* into making courses for them to get no plays. The last level I really spent a lot of time on was a remake of my first Elite Castle level, something pretty near and dear. But it got no traction. Anyone reading this could easily take this comment to be me complaining that I didn't have enough streamers to advertise my levels to. That's hardly what this is, I never wanted to use the streamers as a means to an end, I loved being a part of those small communities. What I'm really trying to do is point out a natural issue with the game: **Super Mario Maker is a platform, not an experience.** And by platform, I mean like RU-vid and Twitch. The fact is that unless you spend a lot of time advertising your courses and throwing that level ID everywhere you can, you're not going to get many likes. Or many plays, for that matter. And this is why I wanted to write this post, because as a large SMM youtuber, you probably haven't experienced (In a long time, at least) the crushing feeling of spending hours on a level and having it get no plays or likes. I'm not trying to blast you or say I'm a victim because I don't have a large following, I'm trying to say that SMM3 needs to find a way to add progression to making levels and getting more traction. If the algorithms were aimed at promoting great courses (Possibly via feedback) and recommending good creators, then maybe middle-class players could get some of that satisfaction of making a course and having it fulfill its purpose of bringing fun to others. I could write a lot more feedback for SMM2 (Like how only multiplayer tagged courses should be played in multiplayer, and how you should be able to see how many boos your courses have), but this main point is why I can't get back into Mario Maker 2. I was really excited for each update, hoping it could bring me back into the game, but none of them did it. Here's hoping I find the drive to play again, or SMM3 fixes this core issue. Thanks if you read this far lol.
I've been thinking about this same issue of levels not getting played. I thought about some kind of bounty system in which you can earn coins for completing other players' levels, and then in turn offer those coins as bounty for someone if they complete your level. That way if you really want people to play your level you could grind through some other people's levels to gain a bunch of coins and then up the bounty on your own level. You could add in multipliers to fix other issues like if it has no clears the bounty gets multiplied by 10 and so on. Just an idea~
@@EtaZeta01 Actually very clever. I’d recommend that the bounty multiplier scales like a true bounty would; with difficulty. So the lower the clear rate the higher the bounty; without this hard levels would be heavily disincentivized.
Mario Maker 2 is such a gem, and its really sad to see that nintendo just decided to more or less just be done with it not even a year after its released, breaks my heart.
I've been watching people play Mario maker for about a year. You, dgr, and poo are the reason I just bought a switch and smm2. I know the game's not perfect, but I'm SO hyped to get to play endless Mario levels.
I also have been watching SMM about since beginning of Ruy´s career. Had two days so far when i tried all the techs that i´ve learned from videos. Also soooooo tempting to buy my own setup but i´m such a PC fan to get it just yet :). I envy you Elaine Keim. Please let me play your game if we ever meet lol!
Ryu: I think people love watching SMM. Me: Yeah, absolutely. I don't even own a Nintendo console and my dad works at PlayStation still I always watch all SMM videos XD
I noticed that you played league for a while. I would be really excited if you also tried dota 2 especially since they have an event going on right now. Always happy watching your videos! Keep up the content.
You're really good at capturing the emotions of the game indeed! I watch with my boyfriend and I frequently squeeze his arm when things get tight, I slam the table if I feel there was some unfair kaizo block or soft lock and we both cheer for you when you finally get some insane jump or finish some insane level! So yeah, great editing skills indeed! Also sometimes I curse in admiration when we're really impressed by something you pulled off.
Now im imagining an old couple sitting in their rocking chairs saying.. "remember when we used to watch that Ryubar on the youtube honey?".. "Ryukahr! It was Ryukahr you old goat" "Oh yeah, Ryukahr...those were the days"
11:34 well they should do that They can make a pro league or something like that I remember ryu competing in some tournaments were 2 players would compete and the winners would compete against each other it was so cool If Nintendo wants money they should capitalise on that like imagine seeing ryu winning a cup or something in a tournament it would be so cool
@@HighPriestFuneral why tho? If ur talking ab the smash stuff then nah that has nothing to do with it. Nintendo just hates supporting anything after its released it seems
I feel like the first Mario Maker was designed to be a Mario game first and a maker game second--but everyone wanted it to be a maker game first. MM2 tries to remedy that, adding stuff that wasn't in the original games designed specifically for the Mario Maker environment, and it's great, but they just weren't able to stray too far away from the original concepts of the game simply because it wouldn't sell much any other way, which means it's this weird, contradicting mush in some areas of the game. I feel like if it had gone in a direction much more towards 'just a maker game,' it might have had a bit more financial success, because actually playing the game would lend itself to a ubiquitously positive experience, even if it wasn't one that was as near to 'Mario game.' Watching Mario Maker tends to lend itself to a higher concentration of 'good stuff,' since streamers and RU-vidrs don't have trouble finding good levels or having their levels seen because of their ties with the community, whereas normal players aren't likely to get even 100 different people to play any given level of theirs and have to wade through the Mario game/maker game mush to get to it.
If I were in Nintendos shoes I would be looking for a way to improve multi-player. Take the game offline for a week to change the server structure. Market is as a re-launch of multiplayer, add multiplayer endless mode to sweeten the deal, where you could create a "room" of your friends or random people to explore endless amounts of levels in. With a traceable leaderboard. That kinda feature would attract more purchases. Also if they planned a DLC drop that would happen shortly after the multi-player relaunch would just be that much more enticing... you do make a good point about the DLC only being desirable by creators, so I thought: What if you did have to own the dlc to be able to play the levels made with dlc parts? Any level created with a single dlc item would get the "dlc stamp" so you could still upload non-dlc levels. The DLC packs could also launch with a coinciding free feature (like Cities Skylines does with their releases) ...... I really wish they would continue to update the game. I would even think $20 for a large-ish DLC pack, after a multiplayer relaunch, would be perfectly acceptable.. Maybe to further entice players the DLC would include the custom endless or 100 man, modes.
I love that you changed up the format for this video! It fits really well and you make good use of it! I still like your 'normal' commentary videos more, but this was a nice change of pace. I also agree with a lot of what you're saying, but there's one thing I want that you didn't mention: I would like the option to make power-ups persist between levels in super-worlds. Of course, some people don't want to make a traditional game, so you should be able to turn it off, but for traditional levels, it's way more connected and fun to have persisting power-ups. About doing reviews, that would be fun! Starting with retro games might be a good warm-up, but after a bit, I would recommend reviewing recently released games. Maybe you could do a Let's Play and have a final episode where you review the game.
Here is the thing. I bought the game because I started watching you, and really wanted to be able to create a level that you would play. So having a way to "send" levels through the app itself would be amazing. I know that right now we can use your discord or twitter or whatever, but it is not the same.
I can’t really give you anything in terms of feedback concerning the game, because I never played it. All my knowledge of it, and MM1, is from you and CarlSagan42. That won’t stop me from commenting, however. Your playthrough of Hello Neighbour carried me through a very dark and shitty time in my life. Thanks for making nice, wholesome content. You’re an incredibly pleasant content creator and I just hope you keep doing what you want to do.
I don't even play Mario Maker 2, but I love watching MM2 videos. I would definitely buy it if I had the money to buy a switch, but it's still really entertaining to watch for some reason.
This is a really nice summarize of the whole year with SMM2. I liked it a lot! It sounds like nostalgic trip, but hey - it's happening:D Anyway, paid DLC are not good idea - think about situation like 50% of gamers buy it, the other half not. What's about the stages that would be created with using of DLC elements? Would they be unavailable for not-DLC users? It could be hard to maintain - and I think that is why Nintendo decided to release two free DLC accessible for everyone. Anyway, I agree - that would be wonderful if they decided the next additions. They could even implement costumes from SMM1 - as a kind of trophies that could be used in stages. Another reflection I have is - while watching your videos I can say there is way more really good stages and less garbage - do you agree with that?
Yo ryu I would LOVE IT if 100 man was brought back. I don’t think Nintendo will bring it back anytime soon, so why not take a stand and bring it back yourself. I’m sure those videos would get a lot of views and maybe it would show Nintendo (if a bunch of ppl did it) how we all love the satisfying sense of victory and win streaks and all that stuff that used to be in the game. THOSE OLD VIDEOS LITERALLY HAD A CULT FOLLOWING. I would love if u brought it back once in a while. It’s been far too long since you’ve gotten big for peach (I caught that “growing” reference at the end btw lol)
I have never played SMM or SMM2 in my life and I do not own a switch. Around about January (2020), I saw an SMM2 video in my recommended which I think was from your channel (and I think was an endless run of some sort). Out of curiosity, I watched the video and I was instantly hooked to the vibrant culture around SMM2. I found channels like Panga, Redfalc, Raysfire, Lilkirbs, CarlSagan, Trihex, Alpharad, DGR... and I watch SMM2 videos pretty much every day now, even though I've still never played. I think there is so much more potential to be unlocked (I had never heard of the fanmade Battle Royale game until this video but OMG IT LOOKED SO GOOD) and I think you are right about Nintendo - they should take a chance and dive into a more modern perspective of gaming, with more fully fleshed-out multiplayer experiences.
It's FAR from being entitled to say that using P2P is trash and unacceptable, especially since you PAY to do it... Their "server" only have to match you up, which takes a second, and rest is done by P2P.... seriously P2P used to be free... It feels like they went "pay to play online" just cause all other consoles takes money for it. And DLC? No thanks... I understand expansions packs which contain a LOT of new content, but dlc... dlc have to me, and will always, felt like companies grabbing for money for something that should have been in the same from the start
THERE SHOULD BE A WAY TO WATCH PEOPLE PLAY YOUR LEVELS!!! The worst part of this game is spending so much time tweaking and tuning a level only for it to sit there without knowing how other people will play it unless you annoy streamers to maybe try it. It's disappointing and one of the big reasons I never play the game anymore, it just seemed like I was only wasting my time
Summary of loving recommendations: 1. Bring back 100-man Super Expert (or even better, customizable number of levels/lives to win). This! I really miss watching this mode. 2. Unleash Mario Battle Royale. 3. Lag-less multi-player. 4a. Hard mode on Super Worlds (0 lives = restart). 4b. Make it easier to search/filter super worlds.
Imo I think 3D World needs a revamp in MM3, it’s really hard to make a level in it that’s not hot garbage. I feel like munchers and shells are required for contraptions, and maybe some more items like a Double Cherry 🍒 would be good. The way 3D World is right now hat levels are really the only good ones (with a few exceptions, like Ryu’s cat suit level).
The 2 reasons I haven't played MM2 as much as I hoped are: 1. No 100 Mario challenge. 2. The lag in multiplayer. Still extremely fun to watch when actually good youtubers/streamers play it.
In my opinion, Super Mario Maker 2 was a disappointment to me. They patched a whole load of Kaizo stuff which really pissed me off. And the online way is complete garbage to me, lag, point system, etc. Ofc there are good stuff in this game exclusively, but it does not outweigh the bad.....in the slightest. Really saddens me.
Yea I don’t play the game but I do very much enjoy watching others play. Listening to your breakdown of improvements was really interesting and think you make a ton of good points. Hopefully Nintendo might listen to some of critiques + add ons. Keep it up RYU enjoying the content
I only bought mario maker 1 a couple of days ago, and I have had a lot of fun with it. I really want to try out mario maker 2, but I don't have a switch.
I think what’s next for the series is either Mario Maker 3D or Nintendo Maker, with a much wider variety of games to create, from Zelda to Megaman to even Pikmen. I don’t think they will do 3, because there’s so little to add that wouldn’t be very difficult to put together and/or customize.
Ok hear me out, Mario Maker 3d with the option to build and play levels in actual 3D, like it is in 3D world, odyssey, Galaxy or even Mario 64. They could also implement an option to convert current game modes from 2d to 3D
I would be willing to buy a new Mario Maker game every two years or so. New games enable them to reshape the experience in ways that would otherwise break it if they had to be completely backwards compatible with everything already there. Paid DLC would just fragment the community too much, and basically turn the game into a vending machine.
I really like that Ryu is so critical of the game (with very good points I agree with!), even though he clearly loves it. He is not biased and talks honestly about the game's flaws while also acknowledging the good stuff. Instead of, ya know, becoming fiercly overprotective and deflect on anything that doesnt suit him, like a lot of people tend to do.
I really want to see a SMM3. I mainly want to see an improved multiplayer experience, possibly some custom made levels by Nintendo and obviously improved performance.
I agree with you Ryu, a lot of content that could've been amazing ended up being subpar! I mainly miss the reward of winning super expert; getting big for peach!
I'm so annoyed that nintendo doesn't know how to make good DLC. Games like mario maker, mario odyssey, super mario party and mario tennis aces all died (or didn't get the attention they deserved) because of bad or non existant dlc
I agree that Mario Maker could be so much more and it's a tragedy Nintendo stopped at half-assing it. Especially when it comes to multiplayer and game mode options. We need more!
They should have kept 100 mario and let you keep going when you win. I hate stopping the game because you lost all 15 lives to a speedrun level. The amount they give in endless is WAY to small
It's great to see your points from the player perspective. I love watching SMM2 videos for the creativity of people and levels, be it hot garbage or good levels. That's why I stopped watching DGR Dave's Trolled series & don't watch streams (also for time reasons) because I'm not interested in seeing the same level that many times over and over. DLC's would be cool but problematic because you need to limit which levels can or cannot play based on whether they have the DLC or not. Not impossible but idk. Nintendo finally warmed up to DLC's in Pokemon so who knows.
Good retrospective, surprised you didn't call out Clear Conditions a little bit as some of them are great/terrible lol. Thanks as always for the fun content!
