Super Punch-Out!! (Arcade) - *Former* High Score World Record [1,917,800 points] 

Yup

Champion of the World: "Great fighting, son, you'll get there someday!"

Meanwhile, millions of people don't know Soda Popinski's original name.

They put in illegal moves to make super punch out a sequel

@@clip8511 pretty much

Nearly every fighter in this game is illegal since weight classes are pretty much universal.

@@clip8511 More like they put in illegal moves to make the SNES Super Punch-Out!! non-canon.

How can you complain about that and not hoy quarlow bringing a stick to a boxing match

I'll just leave this here ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-LM3vjL97TdA.html

Nice, he almost double the amount I said. The only thing that sucks for the player is that the time keeps going when Macho does his K.O. spins.

@@GRIMLOCK07 I know right that is cheating🤔🤔

He's the man

It is called a clothesline not being rude just saying what’s true :-)

Or "the last stand" for the third, and final cycle to be exact!

It's supposed to be part of the Enter The Dragon theme.

@HappiNess Yeah! I think Super Macho Man should smile with one of his eyebrows raised.

They just reused his dizzy sprite for laughing. It's the same deal with all the other fighters.

Amazing

Lol

I know right actually it also used to make me feel really bad because I used to really suck at this hard ass game. Now many many years later I'm now and advanced player the farthest I have ever gotten was the 4th Super Macho Man.. far as I'm concerned that's not bad..

I only saw this version twice in arcades. That of which was kind of surprising, considering you could often find the original Punch-Out!! at many places as recently as the early 90's, and even in arcades with classic games in general as time went on here and there too. That while finding a S.P.O. cabinet was like trying to locate a needle in a haystack, despite being the superior game and all though.

He's eliminated, just like Kid Quick and Pizza Pasta in Punch-Out.

@@unappealingundesirable2826 At least Pizza Pasta, and Great Tiger both got second appearances, which Kid Quick didn't even get though! That while both Piston Hurricane, and Vodka Drunkenski ended up actually having four unique fights respectively too!

The third Super Macho Man is probably the hardest Punch Out fight in the entire series, so yeah, definitely really hard to get any semblance of consistency to beat him regularly.

And he's down for the count!

I know right

Yeah, the arcade games definitely expect way more out of you if you're wanting to go as far as possible.

@@zallard1 yup

@@zallard1 they are expecting your money

@@thesmilingman7576 indeed

Schush Good question

Arcade super punch out is fucking hard

I didn't even know he was from arcade

um good question great tiger appears once more after the 2nd Vodka drunkdenski after he seems to disappear forever

Guess he was a smart boxer.. saved his earnings . .and his hide.. he knew when to retire.

This is because its very real. Like everything from the boxing ring in reality except for Dragon Chan which is MMA not boxing but it doesn't really matter that much.

Five fighters, but with 16 unique fights all together though!

​@@freakyfornash16? I thought 10

@@Nintentoni There's five different boxers you face off in this game. But the last "unique" fight is the 16th one, which is the fourth, and final edition of Vodka Drunkenski.

@@freakyfornash weird, wouldn't it make more sense if the last unique fight was 14 or 18?

lol i think when he came to mike tyson punchout they had issues with the name vodka because of young kids playing the game so they changed it soda popinski

Yeah and Vodka's punching gloves are Green for Title Defense

TheKendub718 also becuase of racism both

No, "Vodka Drunkenski" is the original name of the character, which was introduced in arcade Super Punch-Out in 1984. "Soda Popinski" is the "kid-friendly" name they gave the character a few years later in Mike Tyson's Punch-Out for the NES.

Super Macho Man: Did You Mean Hurricane Punch?

@@DemarcusHamptonBailey-dj8df Yes.

Did you mean Super Spin Punch? :)

​@@NintentoniSuper Macho Man: Right!

We were on the verge of greatness, we were this close

Dragon Chan: Are You Blind, Dylan?

@@DemarcusHamptonBailey-dj8df I'll have you know that first of all, I am NOT blind. Second, kicking is heavily forbidden in boxing and can result in disqualification for illegal maneuvers.

@@dylanriddle782 Dragon Chan: Oooh, You Ment To Tell My Kung Fu's Noisy Itself.

Vodka Drunkenski: I Can't Understand You, Dylan.

@@DemarcusHamptonBailey-dj8df [2 Days later] Perhaps I've been too harsh on Dragon Chan's fighting style. The kicking attacks were a bold risk in this type of boxing, but I should instead commend him for taking such risks. It shows how well Kung Fu and Boxing can be combined into a new martial arts technique. Dragon Chan, if you choose to kick me for what I've said earlier, I promise that I will never complain about your fighting style again.

Thanks!

I've played on a Punch-Out cabinet once before. The buttons and joystick are fine as far as precision goes; it took me about 2 tries to completely adjust to it off of playing on MAME. The ducking joystick would be a little different I guess, but I doubt it'd take long to adjust to that either tbh. I can't support having a cabinet at my place for the foreseeable future unfortunately, so playing on an original PCB over a supergun is just gonna have to be my way to officially compete in this game. Thanks for the kind words though!

And bald bull and sandman :P

Von kaiser isn’t in Super punch out classic

@@Ace_Bruh yes

i am a duck I know It's Just a teory

i am a duck no

anybody who thinks that vodka drunkenski and soda popinski are different people are dumb. They are the same people, Nintendo just had to change the name for obvious reasons. I am a duck is correct, they are the same character. hunter and Shadow are wrong.

Your Dad what about Disco kid and Kid Quick?

Yk, it apparently gets to the point where you can't even defeat anyone within the time limit due to how much HP they have.

When I first heard that noise, I pooped my pants!

No way, are you stoned?

@dadobax feel the nunchaku Blah!

I just beat him today. But Bear Hugger 2 seems to be even harder. I only get 1 to 2 punches per combo.

Demarius Carmon its like “HGbFfSDaSaaaaaAAAYAaAAAaAaA”

I do know of the 1HKD glitch on Tiger, which is also something that can be abused on Hurricane/Bull from arcade Punch-Out. The timing for the early version of the glitch (the kind you're describing) is pretty tight, yeah. That video that you have is the second version of the glitch. So what happens is, for Hurricane/Bull/Tiger, if you drain their HP down to the point where 1 punch would floor them, but THEN they back up and go for the charge, you can counter it like you normally do. However, when they get up, the game doesn't remove the flag that determines if you hit the 1HKD punch, so the next punch will floor him, no matter when or how it lands. As far as the extended stun goes, generally speaking, the tighter you dodge, the more hits you get in. From what I can see, it appears that you probably hit the fastest possible dodge in that instance. I actually did a fair bit of research before I got into the arcade games, and your old posts on TG that chronicled this alternate version was some of the info I ran into. It was really interesting to hear that there was another version of this game out there, especially with such significant differences! I am really sad to see that it may have been lost to time though, since it appears that it hasn't been ripped or preserved in any way. It would have been really nice to play it myself to see the differences firsthand. I'm guessing you've played the Japanese version by this point too. I like how Bear Hugger in that version is really similar to what they went with for the SNES version of SPO. I think I also remember that Macho was slightly harder since if you whiffed a KO punch as he winds up for a spin punch, he didn't wait for you to finish before he hit you with it.

It's amazing how you've analyzed this and other games. I don't even know the details of the scoring system in SPO, despite having played it since 1987. Also, other things you've talked about in other comments, such as the varying damage KO punches do depending on whether the opponent's guard is up or not, and the increasing damage of successive KO punches; those are things that have never even occurred to me. I know that dodging early can stun them for more hits, but I've never seen Great Tiger or anyone else in SPO get stunned for 8 hits before. Bear Hugger routinely gets stunned for 6 hits in his early incarnations, and that's the most I've ever seen. I've played the Japanese version in MAME several times. Bear Hugger's fighting style is completely different, and his ear-boxing move isn't a one-hit-knockdown like it always is in the US version, and he does it far more often. I agree that he's very similar to the SNES Bear Hugger. I haven't played it enough to be really familiar with all of the differences though, because playing the Punch-Out games in MAME sucks wicked bad.

A good amount of this info was revealed when the tool assisted speedruns came out for both of the arcade games. If you're interested in reading up on them, here are their submission pages: tasvideos.org/5363S.html tasvideos.org/5416S.html

That's amazing. Thanks for the links. I had no idea that anyone had ever TAS'd the two arcade PO games. Some of those things he mentioned in his commentary were things I knew from experience, but I didn't know the specific breakdowns and hows and whys. For example, I've long known that a right punch can sometimes do more damage than a right hook / uppercut; never knew why (he says that right punch has up to 9 hit points; right hook / uppercut has as little as 5 hit points). And I knew that knocking an opponent down with a right hook or uppercut instead of a regular punch reduced their health refill when they got back up. I also knew that right punches are slower, but do more damage than left punches. It seems that's not 100% true though. They can both do as little as 3 hit points of damage, but the left maxes out at 6 points while the right maxes out at 9 points. And the right is indeed slightly slower. Ironically, the right body blow is slightly _faster_ than the left (2 frames faster if it connects, 1 frame faster if blocked), which I never knew. I've always just used lefts for body blows because I assumed they were faster like left head punches are faster. It would be hard for me to change my habit from going for left body blows to right body blows, but if they are two frames faster, I assume it would result in a higher percentage of landed ones on Vodka 4, and even though I don't need any of them to land, it's nice when they do. I'd like to see a TAS that goes for maximum score, which isn't necessarily the same thing as going for the fastest time. KO punches are slow, sometimes don't do as much damage as regular punches, but they score higher, more than enough to offset the rate at which the KO bonus decreases. That means that a slower fight time can result in a higher score than a faster one. Kind of like "point pressing" in Donkey Kong, where you have a similar completion bonus countdown going on. I don't understand how people are able to figure all this stuff out for a TAS run. Is it something they can just "see" by looking at the disassembled code? It's something I could never do either way. I have zero aptitude for reading/writing computer code.

The arcade TASes are super recent, also the person who made the MTPO & SNES SPO TASes investigated a few things when I was just diving into the games. And yeah, if you check out some of the speedruns I've done, you'll notice for most fights, I start with left jab because it's the fastest and will deal the exact same damage when the fight is just starting out. I would also love to see a TAS of a high score, although because of the nature of the game never ending, I feel like it should end on fight #16 since it is the last unique fight that the game offers you. I will say immediately that a TAS would be completely filthy and impossible to do in real time, since the opponents have random guards, not to mention the TASes manipulate the opponent's guards in such a way that the input is impossible on an arcade stick (believe me, I've tried). Also as far as how people can figure all these details out, they basically can look into how the game operates from within. Using an emulator's memory address viewer while the game is running, you can attempt to find out where certain relevant memory addresses are and see how they behave. Example, say you want to find the opponent's HP. You would try to search for any memory addresses that decrease in value specifically when the opponent takes a hit. In the case of this game, finding that bit of information also raises other questions (why is damage increasing, why is damage inconsistent sometimes, why are different punches doing different damage values sometimes, ect), which of course, reveals a lot more info about the game than one would expect.

SuperGun submissions are legitimate at Twin Galaxies & was verified to be a valid run on the arcade track. I'm sorry you think otherwise, but this is still a valid record on that track. Also for what it's worth, I've played on a cabinet once before. The "difficulties" you list with the control panel are effectively just extremely minor differences such that they would not affect the execution performed in this run. Having the track separate based off of this would only serve to limit competition more than it already is, which arcade SPO is already a very non-competitive track due to the sheer rarity of owning original hardware.

>SuperGun submissions are legitimate at Twin Galaxies & was verified to be a valid run on the arcade track. I'm sorry you think otherwise, but this is still a valid record on that track. Yes, that's why I said they _should_ be tracked separately. Do you think a SuperGun submission on Donkey Kong should be accepted? How about Missile Command, where someone rigged up a mouse instead of the original trackball? >Also for what it's worth, I've played on a cabinet once before. The "difficulties" you list with the control panel are effectively just extremely minor differences such that they would not affect the execution performed in this run. Based on your other reply in this thread... "I've played on a Punch-Out cabinet once before. The buttons and joystick are fine as far as precision goes; it took me about 2 tries to completely adjust to it off of playing on MAME. The ducking joystick would be a little different I guess, but I doubt it'd take long to adjust to that either tbh." ... you played Punch-Out, not Super Punch-Out, which is why you said "The ducking joystick _would_ be a little different I guess, but I _doubt_ it'd take long to adjust to that either," because Punch-Out doesn't have a duck function (not to mention that Punch-Out is a much easier game than SPO), so you are only able to speculate about how different it would be, and how long it would take you to adjust. In '87 and '88 when I was 12 and 13 I played SPO almost every day at the local general store where everyone hung out after school. The only two contenders for the high score were Lawton (a year older than me) and myself. Lawton's biggest problem was that he never quite got comfortable with the "ducking pull" function of the joystick. He would completely change his grip to do it, rotating his hand so his palm faced the ceiling and sliding his first two fingers under the ball-top. Lawton always had the high score on every arcade machine that came into that place, and was considered by many to the best videogame player in town, but "ducking pull" was his downfall on that game. He never did beat Super Macho Man #3, and sometimes he would even lose to SMM 2 due to mishaps while trying to duck. The point is: maybe you could adjust to the ducking pull joystick, or maybe, like with Lawton, it would always be an albatross around your neck, but either way, you would need to be playing with the original controls in order for it to be a level playing field on this track. TG obviously isn't requiring you to do so, so that leaves it up to you (I have no plans to officially dispute your score or anything like that). You could even build an SPO control panel from scratch; Mike Haaland (of Mike's Arcade) has everything you need, including an excellent reproduction of the 5-way SPO joystick, excellent reproductions of the Nintendo buttons, and an Omron ZAP-2A big blue KO button, which is still being manufactured. There are many people, including myself, who could provide you with measurements for the correct spacing between each of the controls. With that said, you obviously have world-class talent at this game and all of the other Punch-Out games, though I find your approach to Vodka Drunkenski 4+ to be bizarre. Your approaches to Bear Hugger 3+ and Dragon Chan 4+ are excellent; significantly faster and higher scoring than my decades-old approaches to those two guys. I've never had a "speedrunner" mentality, while it appears that you are one of the world's premier speedrunners in numerous games. By the way, did you know that Jeff Wolfe scored 848,530 on SPO in MAME? That's very impressive for MAME, more impressive than his ~1.86 million arcade score in my opinion. Dragon Chan 4+ is next to impossible in MAME due to lag. I downloaded his INP file back in 2002. It wasn't on Twin Galaxies (his TG MAME score is only 441,190) but rather, some other site that tracks MAME submissions (MAME Action Replay). I still have his INP file, but if I remember right, there were some NVRAM-related issues with playback, which is why it was deleted from MARP.

Sorry for the delay in the reply, still pretty out of it from getting back from AGDQ. For Donkey Kong, if someone were to submit a run on a supergun, I would have no issue with the gameplay between a supergun run and a cabinet run personally. Out of curiosity, I also asked a handful of active DK players on their opinion on if someone got a new record on supergun, and they didn't seem to care as long as it wasn't on MAME. I do see what you mean for missile command though, since in that case, a mouse would be wildly different and possibly enable inputs that would otherwise be impossible for a trackball. I do like your idea on recreating the control panel, however, at this point I have already spent way out of my range, not to mention waiting several years, to even just get this stuff together to even play this game at all on the arcade boards. I know Mike has repro parts that would aid in a control panel recreation, but I just have no means to invest in this for the foreseeable future, let alone build it myself. Also, "technically" that would still not be a 1:1 experience to an arcade cabinet anyway if we're operating on that level of scrutiny. As much as I would love to, I just simply cannot afford a cabinet, or support one with my current living conditions, so this is just not an option for me sadly, even if I did have the funds for it. Thanks on the kind words for the strategies! My Vodka 4 strategy is, believe it or not, lifted straight from Jeff's previous WR since he streamed his run on Twitch. The only thing I added was the first couple of dodges to set up an extra punch at the start before he has an opportunity to punch. I know it's a pretty drawn out fight, but it's 100% safe and Jeff used it, so I figured it was worth using for that reason as well. That is incredibly impressive on Jeff's MAME score, as I know very well that the input lag is just simply awful for what this game expects out of you on loops 3 and beyond. I would be happy to watch it if you happen to have it lying around.

Yes, Mike's reproduction parts are expensive, especially his SPO joystick. I actually got one of his first ones for "free" quite a few years ago, well, it was in exchange for some Ducking Pull decals that I had left over from the original run where I vectorized them and had Rich from ThisOldGame screen print them. They were "seconds", because one of the carriage bolt holes was slightly misaligned, but they were still usuable (you just had to cut the hole open a little more, and the carriage bolt head hid it anyway). Mike didn't mind that they were seconds so we made the trade (more recently I traded him my original vector file for a set of SPO ROMs and color PROMs so I could convert one of my two PO boardsets into a backup SPO boardset; I'd already reproduced the security board myself). I've never actually used it because I have an original in my machine, but I wanted to see how good of a reproduction it was. It is excellent. I may use it eventually, but not for SPO (Nintendo joysticks are effectively indestructable, so my original SPO joystick isn't going anywhere). I have a gutted Popeye cabinet in the shed that I plan to do something with eventually, and it would be a good joystick to use in there (no need for the duck function in a Popeye cabinet, but it doesn't hurt anything being there either). I do still have Jeff's INP file, but I can't get it to play back correctly. It loses sync during the first fight. I just did some Google searching and found a thread from 2003 about it (and the creator of the thread attached Jeff's INP file so you can download it from there - forums.marpirc.net/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=11022 . Someone on that thread was able to keep it in sync until the third fight by doing something with the NVRAM file. I rarely have problems with Vodka 4; the only time I ever get nervous with him is if I get careless and he knocks me down once. When you get up from a knockdown from him he's in a completely different mode that I don't have a lot of practice with, and you don't get much of your health restored. My strategy with him involves intentionally taking quite a few hits, so I have to be careful just how many hits I allow. The method I use to provoke him to hit me is so ingrained that sometimes I do it out of habit forgetting that I don't have enough health to take the hit without going down; sucks when that happens. I normally KO him in 1:30 or less. If you watch my recent Twin Galaxies submission video - www.twingalaxies.com/showthread.php/180667-Arcade-Super-Punch-Out!!-Points-2-272-070-Charles-Bingham - you can see plenty of examples of it. Fight #48 on that video is a good example of the fight going exactly as I planned. Despite the hits that I allow, I still have a pretty good margin for error though, and I have an almost completely safe backup plan for the times that I get too low on health to take hits. The only significant risk in the backup plan is running out of time, but I don't even remember the last time that happened. The guy who eventually does me in 99 times out of 100 is Super Macho Man 3, and it can just as easily happen on fight #13 as it can on fight #77.

Finally got a chance to look at your run in full this weekend, congrats! I do know about sneaking in gut punches for Vodka, but I figured that Jeff had probably explored that avenue of attack previously and found it to be too risky, so I just kind of followed suit and didn't really see a problem with it. Granted, since you're finishing that fight faster than I am on average, you are gaining points on that fight over me per loop. I'll try to check out the INP file eventually, but I'm not too hopeful considering it seems like no one in that thread ever got it to sync up. Whenever I get back into this game again, I'm probably just going to use the same setup that I've been using as far as control scheme goes. Don't get me wrong, I'd love to try out a control panel, but the price/time for assembling such a thing is just hard for me to justify considering how hard and expensive it was to even get this far.

I want to eventually make a video to break it down, but the TL;DR version is basically that he's really random and can do one of 3 different attacks in several spots, all of which have to be dodged in different ways.

zallard1 thanks for the explanation ^^ i assume that dodging these attacks is also nearly frame perfect?

There hasn't been any port of the arcade Punch-Out hardware to FPGA platforms as of yet.

Both arcade versions of Punch Out and Super Punch Out have a Sanyo VLM5030 Speech Synthesizer chip on both arcade boards. This was the best they could do for voices in video games back in 1984.

zallard1 sounds impressive for ‘83

When it gets beaten, I'll probably try to improve it, but for now I'll leave it be.

This was made in 1984, so it was likely received differently then it would be today

supEEEr macho maaan

123TauruZ321 yeah lol

I want to eventually, but it's not a priority right now.

@@zallard1 OK, look forward to seeing it when you do.

On an actual Super Punch-Out arcade machine you pull up on the joystick (toward the sky) to duck.

Great Tiger is in the game! How about Von Kaiser and King Hippo?

This is recorded off of an actual arcade PCB, and the way this game originally handled audio was to have two separate speakers handle different parts of the audio (one for all the other sounds in the game, and the other for speech synthesis).

you either need to find an arcade that has the original punch out or buy it on the nintendo switch

⬇️

懐かしい。よくやりました。三周目のドラゴンチェンは超強かったですね。

Are you playing on MAME or on the actual hardware? 3rd-and-higher Dragon Chan is particularly hard on MAME due to lag.