I just don't like that quite a few characters nowadays don't care about enemy weaknesses. Boothill, Acheron, Feixiao, Firefly, and now Rappa can deal tougness damage regardless of weakness. Superbreak is already strong. We don't need to make it even easier.
Tbh this slipped my mind when making the video, but yeah 100% agree. It's not even about break being able to take such good advantage of that, because feixiao and acheron can do it too. It just takes away a layer of game mechanics where you're meant to bring the proper element, I mean why would you if you can ignore it?
I actually like this because the method to obtain the units r hard, u need to save and then gamble to get it. Turn based games naturally has to have typing and so the amount of characters needed to fulfil each typing would be alot too, this is also why hsr is pumping characters out like crazy since release, they need a lot of different characters just to make the game fresh. Now why superbreak is a mistake? Well its not, it is not a mistake if it is weaker. Super breaking is just the specific typing model that is pretty good for what the game is trying to do, making each character do well on their element. But weakness ignore is the main problem, usually when theres a unit that can straight up ignore typing will always be weaker than those that is specific to that typing. Well it appears thats not the case in this game, just pull feixiao and firefly and ure good
@@fl2ur i'd agree with that, but the main problem is nobody wants a unit that becomes useless is even one enemy is not weak to it, like firefly for instance, she's lose so much value from not being able to beat any non fire weak enemy. It would simply be way too frustrating to use
@skullthefan8914 That's fair - but I think there's definitely better ways to do it than "I implant my weakness on whatever I attack and then deal full toughness break regardless of who/what you are". If they want to give essentially universal toughness break then it needs to be more balanced or deal less toughness break to the non main element, kinda like Rappa.
@@fl2ur exactly instead of powercreep I hoped star rail would go the way early genshin went that different elements are valuable so the need for powercreep is not there instead building different element dps is what makes you want to pull. but with that out of the window plain powercreep is coming and i hate it
I’m just mad bc they definitely skipped a few steps before just throwing amazing super break stuff at us. Like, we never really had a semi-decent real JUST PLAIN BREAK dps and then they threw in Harmony trailblazer. I would have liked to see a more natural progression of things instead of just making Super Break super OP.
Well there are plain Break dps b4 Super Break,its called Boothill Beside the issue of needing a but ton of break multipliers for break dps to deal dmg,you also only have like one chance per cycle to deal any meaningful dmg Like you can break an enemy then they recover,you reduce their toughness and break it next cycle, other than Boothill,every other break can at best deal like 200k per cycle and that just horrendous,there is a reason why Boothill is very hard to play,you literally get one chance to make a shot and have to make it worth
We had Luka but nobody other than people who do 4* clears cared about him for some reason, and he was really strong for a 4* sub DPS while also not being braindead to play. Xueyi also exists but her break is more of a gimmick rather than her main damage source.
Boothill was released half a patch after Harmony TB though, so superbreak dis come before the first 5star break dps. One can argue that Luka, Sushang and Xueyi are all Break dps characters but since they are 4star neither ever took off.
People were building break Silver Wolf back in the day, then we got Ruan Mei and Xueyi and it actually became more of a thing, but still underwhelming. It wasn't until Harmony Trailblazer and Gallagher arrived until it became the latest iteration; we've since had Boothill, Firefly, Lingsha and Rappa. I don't think break came out of nowhere. It had a steady incline in power. I also disagree with the idea that it's miles ahead of anything else. We've been fighting the choir for the past 5 months _(enemies designed to be broken, that take a huge chunk of damage when broken, then receive 50% vulnerability)_ and we've also had an excessive amount of break modifiers on all end-game content.
I don't understand why an easily accessible playstyle would be bad for a game, it's a single player game with no competition among players whatsoever. Giving more options to play and build characters is great for diversity. Also, if you want to make your classic DPS (say Jing Yuan) into a super breaker, you have to farm all the relics again, which some people might not want to do. Unfortunately, locking the toughness bar of opponents would stop SB from working altogether, same as Freeze in Genshin, so I hope they don't to that and instead use the approach you mentioned about encouraging the use of other archetypes/units instead of limiting their usage.
@@iNovak-HSR I doubt they will ever cuck super break as hard as freeze in Genshin. Unlike freeze which was a mechanic only accessible to Ice characters, break/super break is accessible to EVERY character; it's a core mechanic in the game that makes HSR into what it is. A permanent weakness lock would not only screw over break/super break, but also literally every other playstyle. I do think though that they would instead cater more to newer archetypes in the future once they're done branching out with break/super break.
@@koko-hh2bq That's a great point that I missed, you're right that SB is accessible to pretty much every character. I just hope they stopped making the endgame content too beneficial for the current banner character, I mean, it's OK to make it favorable, but most of the time you are required to use that unit or archtype to clear.
The thing is though you don't really have to farm all over again. Break doesn't rely on damage element so you can use the pieces right off of another SB character and switch them back whenever you want. The only two stats you need are break effect and speed.
the problem is that the game will have more powercreep whenever they release easy accessible dmg which means older character become useless and this is bad for f2p and low spender
@sakutaro3musik486 how is it bad when you are literally getting the character for free? HTB is free which is the core of superbreak, gallagher is also free. So getting an op team with Firefly would require you to spend less than to get a team full of limited characters
It seems to me that Superbreak was their way of making Break less useless since before Superbreak nobody cared about Break, but they ended up overdoing it. That's why they made HMC since otherwise nobody would use characters like Firefly or Rappa who depend on SuperBreak, and that's why I don't consider HMC "broken" since they exist to avoid a Kafka situation where an entire mechanic is locked behind a limited character (DoT is useless outside of SU without Her). As for how they're going to nerf Super Break, it's likely that it'll be a mix of inflating the enemies' HP + Gimmicks that just scream "Use the new character or have double the difficulty"
Now the only way to make old DPS characters keep-up is through relics and supports or get an E1 or E2 (if they have only good ones). Also note that newer DPSs have been getting much more catered support for them. When the game started, it was to either hit really hard with hyper carry strategies and have the correct weakness with overall good generic support characters, wich was all around the core gameplay. Around Argenti's release we started getting characters more specific to a play style and each release of a 5 star harmony (including Harmony MC) dictated a meta change (from DoT teams, to debuffing teams, to Followup Teams and Supperbreak teams).
why pick E1 of an old dps if you can have a new one which will be better then the E1 old dps, get better supports and relics and on top of that endgame will be build arround them. Star rail just killed reruns, in genshin I did pull a lot of characters in rerun and I wanted to go for Dan hang IL on his current rerun but I realised he will be bad and never get better and as low I only got half of the penacony units and don´t have any sig LC I can´t efford going for cool old characters since they are barely useable
@@sakutaro3musik486 If you want to clear the endgame content easier, then that is the correct mindset, but there are cases that one simply enjoys combat with the characters or playstyle would prefer invest in those even if its not the optimal choice.
Superbreak is great because now we can have a break archetype when before it didn’t really exist. Boothill doesn’t use superbreak but he has his own break retriggering in his kit so it’s similar enough.
As a Firefly main(mostly bc she's my first dps) and also a fan of Super Break,there are some i want to address 1st, Super Break ceiling is abysmally low compare to other types of dmg,there are only 3 multipliets for Super Break: Vulnerability,Def Shred and Break Effect compare to other type(mostly Crits) which have like 7 multipliers or even DoTs that have like 5,its very easy for Super Break to eventually hit a ceiling while Crits can just scale infinitely and while Exo toughness helps Super Break,it barely matters(more on this later) 2nd, Super Break doesnt only scales with just break but also spd, you could argue literally every unit scales with spd but they can always just settle with a spd boots hitting 134 and then pour everything into atk/CV to hit harder but Super Break can only just get more spd for more actions,just look at Super Break units,they all need to build like 150,160 even 170 spd to be good. So Spd might be a bonus for other type of dps,its pretty much mandatoy for a Break dps to function. While yes the invesment to get it going is very low,its pretty much just as hard if not harder to reach the ceiling(which mind you is a lot lower due to how little multipliers affect Super Break) 3rd, About Exo-Toughness,it really doesnt help Super Break all that much, you essentially get 1 additional trigger of Break dmg per enemy which in total is like a 10-15% dmg increase, what Exo Toughness does is allows Break dps to works(Boothill and Rappa),Boothill can literally oneshot Hoolay bc he get to proc his massive Break twice(also reason why Boothill with HMC is used more bc HMC is free and not everyone is smart enough to properly speed tune Bronya and Boothill,Super Break Boothill is quite bad actually) and for Rappa,she get tons of stacks on her talent for like a 500% Break dmg boost 4th, While its free dmg for newer players, Super Break scales very hard with toughness break efficiency, a lot of the time it wont really deal that much dmg. Also i feel that for early game you get more of an emphasize on breaking the enemy(bringing the correct element) so you get some bonus dmg cuz the 1.11 multiplier on weakened enemies isnt easy to be visualized 5th, While Super Break is absolutely Broken(pun intended),it somewhat helps with the issue of Break being a dead stat b4 that. B4 HMC there is like 2 unit that build break,Silverwolf for Entanglement in Mono Quantum or Luka for bleed proc,both of which sucks,SW is only in Mono Quant(elsewhere she'll use Wind set for more actions). While Xueyi have break scaling,she is still a crit dps that occasionally want some break rows on her double crit relics,not much changed from the norm of crit dps. Lastly about "nerfing" Super Break,its somewhat simple,just make Boss with akward weaknesses, Super Break as a team is like a literally team, everyone contribute some dmg but most importantly reduce toughness. Boss with awkward toughness doesnt really affect regular crit dps but absolutely fucks Super Break, just look at Hoolay,due to a lack of Imaginary weakness that Firefly performs significantly worse due to HMC cant help with toughness breaking In no way im defending SP,the thing is broken as fuck but there are smthg you need to consider, this is quite a long comment but hope you read it though
@hoangnguyen0721 Hey, appreciate the watch and comment - here's a couple thoughts I had reading through it I don't think it's really true to say that superbreaks ceiling is really low compared to the other types, because atk%, crit, dmg%, etc all have diminishing returns. You can see that in the events hoyo runs every so often where our characters can get like 900% attack boosts and whatnot and while they deal a lot of damage it's never what you'd really expect from a 900% boost. Also, I don't think that break was dead before superbreak, it was just unexplored as a damage modifier. Like I mentioned in the video, it actually dealt good damage early game(I ran break hook for the first few cycles of MoC for example) and then overtime it became less relevant once we got better crit stats. Xueyi brought the stat back into relevance, but by nature of being a 4 star I don't think she really pushed the potential of what a break dps could have been(anti synergy with ruan mei didn't really help either). Basically instead of introducing a new mechanic to "fix" the break stat I wish they iterated more on what they already had. There was a lot of nuance in knowing how much toughness your characters did and how to do your team rotation to get the right person to break/etc that just doesn't exist with superbreak as it is now - because all that matters is breaking them and then you get to deal the damage. Anyway, feel free to make longer comments as much as you want, I'm always looking for other opinions on things and again, I appreciate the watch!
Just to clarify on your first point, while super break has a lower ceiling, the amount of stats required to pass it with a normal crit build is VERY high. And not just engdame high. It's like you need atk and both crits on all 6 pieces and they need every single roll. Yes, the potential is higher, but I have characters that I've farmed for thousands of tb power, and they just barely beat out my super break team that has like 130-140 speed and just barely 250% BE while in combat with all the buffs up. Both my super break DPS have maybe 800 tb power combined since I just took the pieces that had less break effect for the second dps. Boots were enough speed at that point. Everything else I agree with, especially the speed point. Because you only need one of 3 leftover roles for speed, but with atk and both crit stats, there's only one slot left that can roll speed, so it's a lot easier to build speed and not lose damage per hit, which I think is why they need to be so fast.
@@fl2ur for your first point cuz i agreed with others Super Break also have diminishing return and its already very close to that due to its base number being so high already HMC Super Break is up to 160% so if another source of SB is added,like say the "leaked" 100% that Fugue gives on top of Firefly base 60%,going from bonus 220% to 320% is a 31% dmg increase at the cost of a whole nother unit while crit/dot can just get that with a Lightcone Or like say Ruan Mei,her initial 50% Break Efficiency is a 1.5 multiplier,but then the next 50% from FF's kit will be a 1.3 multiplier,then the next 50%(from smthg like FF e6 or the leaked E1 of Fugue) would just be a 1.25 so on so forth while again,other dmg can just hit as much with smthg like an S1 Planetary Rendezvous The ceiling of Break is very low which is the "balancing" factor for its ease of access and low investment You can minmax your crit dps,getting 2 more substat roll per relic and get like a 20% performance boost,but for break,minmax its relics can only give like a 10% increase if not less For me,SB rn is just have too high numbers rather than being fundamentally broken,i treat it as a way to always have 1 half of MoC cleared because of how little it scales with vertical investment unlike crit dps
@hoangnguyen0721 True, there's definitely stat dilution with both - I gotta say it's kinda annoying that the floor for SB is also significantly lower than the other types too
For me I really preferred when break was just a supplementary damage option rather than what we have now, having a break Asta, Luka, Xueyi or whatever felt fair as you had to properly calculate how much toughness DMG you had to deal to land that big break attack for some extra damage. Now you just spam attack in whatever way and get free damage, not to mention that damage types don't even matter anymore as everyone ignores toughness weakness for some reason. For me the big problem is that Mihoyo is babyproofing the game way too much, the new characters, be it a sustain, support or dps, do way too much with way too little room for error or skill expression to the point that the game can almost play by itself unless you're purposefully handicapping yourself by using weaker characters.
Your points about supplementary damage is the point I was going for when talking about value over time & xueyi - it was a great early game option, and you had to actually think a little bit to use it. Now with superbreak on the other hand .... lmao
I don't think it's mainly HTB's fault that super break is so broken. While it is "free damage", there's a caveat; the enemy has to be weakness broken. Before they are in that state, you're basically throwing sticks at them until you do break them. The problem is that alot of DPSes now just straight up ignore that caveat altogether. Boothill has a physical weakness implant on his ult, Firefly can implant fire weakness on BOTH her technique and enhanced skill, and now Rappa just straight up damages toughness bars regardless of weakness type (albeit at a less efficient rate). All while dealing immense toughness bar damage (with Ruan Mei's help) to get these enemies to the weakness broken state as quickly as possible.
You do realize that break characters would be garbage if they couldn't implant weakness or deal toughness dmg regardless of type right? Just imagine firefly without the implant, you would literally only use her on stages that have fire weakness and she is literally useless everywhere else
I don't think there's a problem with superbreak, they perform at the same level as any full synergy team would. There's no need to nerf it or change it, we just need to wait for the rest of playstyles to receive more supports.
Bro suddenly realized meta exists. So were DHIL, Jung Liu all these characters meta and pushed the damage numbers up, it’s not super break. Literally every subsequent released unit broke the damage numbers. Adventurine is supposed to be a shielder, yet his follow ups can blast numbers up to a million with his signature lc. Super break scales off of break effect, and I don’t know how familiar you are with basic break scaling but some weakness breaks deal more than others. Super break is to compensate for that exact issue. Make all types of weakness break viable and give characters a damage source that can compete with follow up teams. Is it a bandaid solution? Maybe, they could have played into basic break scaling more but it is how games work. Sometimes the simple solution works best and in that regard it enables other characters simply because every unit is capable of breaking enemy toughness. Not every unit is capable of using follow up sets. I believe super break is pretty good it helps getting older units more usage and makes them somewhat viable in modern endgame. Compared super break damage numbers are still much smaller than what some follow up teams are capable of pressing. Especially your critrate solution with the 2nd crit from the cap is basically what super break is. I agree that the early game landscape is not what it used to be, that the game has gotten much easier after unlocking harmony mc but that’s because you get harmony mc a unit released in 2.x in patches for 1.x to fix the early game issue make harmony mc available in penacony. All the other issues you mentioned seemed more like a personal grudge against break effect as a whole which makes no sense to me. It’s another variable on the board and allows more team comps to happen and be used and basically incentivizes exactly that what you say it doesn’t. Now you see teams like feixiao super break, super blade and so on. I like that, you’re not limited to one and only one value anymore and can make break rolls viable while the dedicated units still outperform the other units. I can’t play my firefly as a follow up character but they added lingsha and she basically can scale with follow up, just not as good as dedicated follow up units.
as a new player who happened to join and obtain ruan mei + firefly (and now fei xiao + robin for my second team), none of the content has been a struggle for me. recently beat du v8, full clear AS, and need one more star (60k) in PF and moc 12 then all the “hardest” content is done at trail blaze lvl 64 i know i can get the last star in pf and complete moc 12 but im gated by weekly boss mats to finish my traces. really wish this game was harder than genshin but its literally the same.
I think this is a really well thought out discussion about Super Break, but I do feel like the introduction of the mechanic has been good for the game overall for a few reasons. We can look at it from a business stand point and acknowledge that by introducing something like Super Break the game as mentioned is a bit easier and particularly for newer players, which is good for getting new players into the game and feeling powerful so that they hopefully transition to regular players who continue to return to the game over time. Beyond that, I think that having a strong path choice for our MC is a positive and in some ways the fact that HMC has been meta will hopefully lead to the upcoming additional path options being strong contenders for our team compositions. Maybe they'll be a bit more niche but still powerful, and I see that as a good thing personally. Everyone has access to Super Break which I feel is also a positive thing because we aren't feeling forced to use our pulls on the limited banner Super Break support unit, we just all have them by default. I think break was certainly deserving of some attention because before Super Break, it was easy to write it off as a somewhat useless stat. What if your break DPS wasn't the one dealing the break? All that investment was wasted potential, and I think having viable options focused on different gameplay mechanics is important for a game like HSR. I think one of the issues comes from other comps not feeling as much love in order to experience the same power boost. Particularly DoT teams currently have been left without new exciting units for some time, and that can feel bad for players who have invested in that specific composition. I do fear that we will see new mechanics on the enemy side of the field, which will be meant as counterplay against Super Break that unintentionally impact the performance of other team comps and leave us feeling like we have to invest in new units because they overbalanced the game. But I see Super Break as a net positive because of how it has made units that were struggling to maintain relevancy shine again. Peace and Love Gamers!
@justkubz Hey, thanks for your comment! I agree that it's nice to get players into the game quicker, but I do have to say I can't say I fully agree with the part of "if you build break on a unit and they weren't the one that breaks it's wasted". That's correct on paper, but I always found it fun trying to manage who gets the break. Like early in the games lifecycle lets say you were fighting Cocolia in MoC. A break team back then would've been something like Pres.MC, Asta, probably tingyun, and break hook. With all that fire damage you had to always think about how much toughness you were doing so you could get Hook to do the final blow for the break. There was a lot of nuance there in terms of speed tuning, knowing when(or when not to) use your skills, etc. Nowadays though, none of that matters because you just break them and deal damage. Basically I feel like superbreak is missing the "fun" part of learning game mechanics and just skips that step entirely to get directly to the damage. Again, I appreciate the comment a ton, and have a good day!
@fl2ur that's a really interesting perspective, and I agree with a lot of what you're saying for sure. I think what you're putting forth does add a layer of planning and strategy to the game that's appreciated and I do enjoy when we have to use our brains a bit to clear content lol Hope you have a great weekend as well, cheers! 🍻
As someone that joined at a weird time (during firefly banner for ps) super break doesn't scale well at all for newer accounts, to the point you still have to learn and make other teams because how alot of things (like traces and relics) were locked behind trailblaze level progression/clockie level. If anything the problem isn't super break but characters that implant said weaknesses, which is case in point why people are debating the effectiveness of rappa. Rappa is arguably a balanced and fun super break character because she still requires someone else to break to use her effectively versus firefly who full ignores this aspect of the game. If anything super break shouldn't be nerfed but raise other playstyles to its level. My friend has a dot team which looks super fun to play, so introducing characters that gives dot effects that can crit or inflict break in their own right can make these alternative teams more appealing.
We've already seen them "nerf" Superbreak by adding more toughness bar to Hoolay but they can really only go so far with that or non SB teams will be the only things that cant break bosses. 8:14 Adding chance to mechanics sounds good on paper but in practice it feels bad (think YanKINGs FU or Qingque skill). It will just feel bad at the end of the day if you're at that point and cause frustration. Maybe something like every time you break an enemy they get more toughness bar added. That could also get out of hand so I'm not sure My hot take would be that they buff old MC Paths (since everyone has them) and try and make it a meaningful choice to use HMC over say DMC or PMC. They will never do this though.
@@mauriciorosademoraes9209 No, it didn't. Boothill has a limit on how much the Talent's Break DMG can scale with Toughness (16 times the BA's Toughness Reduction = 10 × 16 = 160). Hoolay has 240 Toughness, already past Boothill's max cap. Increasing the Toughness Bar will only make Boothill (and any other Break DPS) take longer to Break (and Breaking the Bar itself doesn't give Boothill any exclusive advantage, he'll deal as much Damage as any Break character with the same amount of BE as him). That's why Exo-Toughness is so valuable: the higher the Toughness Bar, the higher the Break DMG, and Exo-Toughness deals the same Break DMG as regular Toughness, being half the size. If enemies start to have 280+ Toughness, Breaking a Bar will deal more damage than Boothill's Talent (His Talent considers 160 Toughness to cause 170% Break DMG, so it causes Break DMG up the equivalent to 272 Toughness).
I definitely agree that “nerfing” superbreak should not involve implementing game changing mechanics that affect other archetypes, like the shield or toughness lock mechanics you mentioned. That said, I feel like the rate hoyo scales up the hp of endgame content is becoming VERY unhealthy and potentially even MORE game breaking than implementing a whole new mechanic. Take in just a few months ago when the Aven boss came out the first time people freaked out over it having 2mil hp…and look at what we have now with hoolay. This is a problem because the rate of this power scaling is much quicker than hoyo can keep up with in terms of character releases for different archetypes; by now, even the best 1.x crit hypercarry dps are struggling to keep up, and dot is pretty much entirely forgotten. This forces the game into a vicious catchup cycle where by the time they rotate back to the dot/hypercarry playstyles, the enemies will have scaled so much that the break teams we have now will be equally as irrelevant. (Not to mention how utterly trash the old dot/hypercarry units would be by then) I think this is really harmful to the game since given that the combat is already as simple as it is, limiting it to only 2 archetypes at a time REALY hurts the gameplay experience.
Break is going to be a problem I think, especially with a certain character coming, because they also showed us what they're likely going to do when they want the meta to shift away from it when they first introduced it with bosses like, ironically, SAM that can constantly grey out their weaknesses. Sadly, that hurts all team types because even outside of break, not hitting a weakness can make bosses impossible for certain teams to damage fast enough, like DoT currently, you can't brute force it since the DPS power creep is also so extreme. DPS that aren't even that old, can't dish our enough damage without weaknesses to compete but that's really the only way to stop super break/exo break from becoming a problem IMO. I don't know how they fix it tbh, besides making some enemy buff that keeps weaknesses open but prevents toughness from going down so other teams can still do damage while break is blocked. Or cracked supports that let other archetypes bypass the weakness bar, like summons, DoT or crit hits specifically.
Tbh my problem isn't with super break as a concept... my problem is when the game keeps forcing it on me, making end game content buffs specifically to that mechanic, I'm a fua enjoyer but I'm having a rough time clearing the current moc because I don't have super break dps's, also making players feel forced to follow a certain game mechanic to clear content and therefore, pull for characters, is diabolical... especially when you know 3.x will have a new meta called summon meta... it's not very casual player friendly if you think about it
I disagree on many points, but what I do think is that this year was very well suited to making Superbreak shine as a mechanic. Almost all endgame content was for the benefit of Superbreak/Follow Up as Second. But I have a suspicion that this is about to end with the arrival of 3.0, the new mechanic apparently is Summoning and the position of the characters in the team. If they make the same deal they did with Superbreak we will have many months with most of the endgame benefits dedicated to it.
(Sorry for bad english) Luckily this affects truly only Firefly and Feixiao havers. My First 2.0 DPS if not consider Black Swan as a hypercarry like these powercreeped units (DoT is just bad) is Rappa. I really like her and begin to like the idea of not have a weakness implant very good and she can do Single Target content without needing imaginary weakness but it's much much worse than using a DPS with weakness. The other i like is Boothill, he's a bit broken with his implant but i think is maybe less broken than put 70% Universal break is more broken. He needs to get energy to put the implant, so you can get some pretty bad situations, losing 1 or 2 turns which can balance him compared to other units if you try to brute force content like E0S1 Ratio (who can 0 cycle Aventurine with a hypercarry setup even tough Aventurine have 40% IMG res). But stills broken.
We already know how they can nerf superbreak without hampering other damage types too much, its already in the game for a few bosses, the biggest example is SAM who just can't be broken for half the fight.
I'm very glad that superbreak exists and I feel like it's definitely a big turn, but it eventually will be out of meta eventually. Acheron isn't top tier for the first time in a gamemode (according to prydwen) so that already shows the beginning of a new perspective. I main Black Swan so I just want DoT to come back into mainstream man it's fallen from grace
@MoofinRei imo the problem I have with those kinda tier lists for something like this is that they're character based - superbreak is a *mechanic* and while the characters currently at the top of that niche might fade out of relevance, there's definitely going to be more in the future that'll keep the mechanic relevant. I fully expect them to bring in something like superDoT whenever the nihility trailblazer releases lmao
Yeah superbreak isn’t the problem necessarily, but how overtuned they made it just like with Hyperbloom in Genshin (though I think hyperbloom is slightly more balanced). As a mechanic it’s very ingenious and brings a whole new DPS archetype. But, the fact that Ruan Mei and TB give so much Break Effect and turn delay in addition to Break DPSs either ignoring weakness or adding it make it way too strong. It’s different with Feixiao and Acheron because they’re already restricted by their Ult mechanic so restricting them again with needing Weakness would be to their detriment.
So i don’t think super break is a problem. The problem is htb. He just make the entire super break broken just because he gives both break effect and increase the super break he provides without much of a trade off. Currently with super break enablers they will get compared to htb who gives 160% (assuming you are against one enemy) super break damage. If he just provided break effect and the enable of super break it wouldn’t be as dominant as it is but still be powerful. They also kinda pigeon hold themselves with htb because now any super break enabler that a 5 star will be compared to him because how powerful he is.
I think the biggest mistake was making HMC as strong as they are. They should've been half as strong as an early to mid-game solution to clear everything until you can get better DPSs and such, and then Fugue should've been what HMC is right now.
Yeah, that's definitely one way they could've done it. Feels like they raised the damage floor with hmc too early, and everything from then on has to do more/be stronger than before
I think a good mechanic could have been that whenever you deal super break damage, some of their toughness bar "recharges" and once it fills up, they aren't broken anymore. This would make it so you have to break them all over again, and would limit how much damage you could deal per down and it would emphasize when to use certain skills and ults, and how well did you build your whole team for SB not just your DPS and "oh, hey you have HMC and Ruan Mei, here's a billion free damage"
@dinocharlie1 That's a unique idea, though it would probably mess with the new exo toughness mechanic. Maybe something like "dealing a certain number of break damage hits fully refills the bar" and that way you have to manage a second "timer" of sorts apart from the enemies' speed. Ex, you wouldn't want to use a ruan mei basic attack to hit the weakness broken enemy because that would use one hit - so you'd have to attack a different monster or skill instead
I really dont understand what everyone means with this "free dmg" bs.. so is feixiao not free dmg? You literally only need Robin and Feixiao and you are gonna deal ridiculous dmg, without even needing to break enemies. So how is it that break is "free dmg" and bad for the game but feixiao is fine?
I’m just mad that they’re going so hard in the paint. Like sure give us harmony tb and a few dps but don’t keep adding mechanics to make the strongest playstyle even stronger, show some love to the other playstyles and save that shit for later lol
The reason why superbreak is dummy strong is not because it's overpowered, but you can focus on speed and break effect + Atk/def based on character requirements. The pool of available stats is wide enough to compensate for other substats that may seem undesirable.
I´m 0:00 minutes into the video and yes, I already agree super break was a mistake. But even worse is the fact that a DPS can ignore type weakness. That´s an idiotic mechanic on a DPS. If anything that should be in a support character (like Silver Wolf, or a ""Bronya" that let´s you reduce toughness for your next attack). Funny enough, these 2 mechanics go hand in hand. Before weakness ignore, your Wind DPS could ONLY break Wind Weak enemies. But now your Wind DPS can break ANYONE, and deal wind break damage. Superbreak is the same... except it allows ANY unit to deal break damage to ANY enemy, doesn´t matter their elemental weakness. At that point, the element system of weakness, what each individual break does and stuff becomes completely irrelevant.
That actually would've been such a better way to do it - having to use a team slot for that type weakness ignore as well as potentially having to balance SP use for it? That gives so many more opportunities to balance the mechanic.
That's why I always say that single player games require balance just as much as multiplayer games, otherwise they will reach a point where whole mechanics and ways to play gets stepped over by powercreep.
I hate universal shred. It reduces use cases for weaker units and now they have to keep pushing the damage bar since they cant be like oh certain unit would be useful against certain bosses while other are useful against something else when units like Acheron or firefly exist that are likely going to be better than them anyway so they have to increase damage bar and it still would be hard sell for players
while i do find the constant break shilling to be annoying, my harmony MC is still level 1 and i still have yet to ever ACTUALLY need it to beat content, so as far as im concerned, superbreak is fine as it is
That's completely fair! I don't think superbreak is a requirement to clear content currently, just that it's too strong compared to how easy it is to use. My main concerns are mostly for future releases and how they're going to have to scale them to compete with superbreak.
I could go in to drop detail on why I disagree with you, but i feel like that time is better spent on why hoyo adding a less demanding way to deal damage in a game where the enemies health pools having been increasing to out pace crit builds turned into a bad idea? Literally every single DPS that have come out has been crit rate/dmg aside from 3 and one you have great with good crit stats you can literally just put them on other characters (aside from the element specific sets and even then ive done it) and instantly have good dmg. Super break is really just a hmc/Ruan Mei team in a game where every end game mode requires 2 teams, so you still need a traditional fua/hyper carry team for the other side, what's wrong with having options? New players shouldn't be handicapped by early game standards from a year and a half ago just to get through the grindy story missions, especially considering how easy it is to out pace the TB level while still having trash gear and no access to the better sets
I’m not mad that superbreack is so strong but just that the teams possible are so limited like ils really just hmc / rm / gal or lingsha and who you want… there is no variety like others have. Sure feixiao best team is FART (lol) but you can replace topaz with moze or march and robin with bronza etc… its strong but not fun everyday
@@math7699 Super break was a fairly new playstyle when it first debuted, so pretty understandable why it has very limited team building. Whereas for FuA, it already had a bunch of characters prior to Robin and Feixiao.
My 2 cents is that superbreak as a mechanic is fine, it's HMC kit that is way too overtuned for absolutely free. Superbreak buff basically never runs out because how easy it is to maintain, and hmc personal superbreak damage is very very high with all the toughness break, add some teamwide break effect buff so everyone can deal more superbreak.
Well tbh i'm not a huge fan of break/superbreak teams, but i think that move of superbreak MC was necessary to enable those teams...no new player could build any break team without him. At least no F2P...or a very few
Hate how little archetypes there are in this game and with the new simulated universe proves there are only 4 archetypes Where as the other games genshin like has many ways to play with reactions hi3 which will have 12 different ways to play in the future while HSR will only have 4 team archetypes? While break out of those 4 is the only one getting attention. They keep on replacing characters than makeing new characters with something different you just got gelard replacement Gallagher replacement Clara replacement Broyna replacement It is just getting really tireing as the game is turn based there is alot of things you can make for the game and they are not doing this where the game is going it is looking that dot with get the break treat ment aka crit dot and so on that tb will get replaced
I don’t understand why you hate free to access damage which = clearing faster = getting more jades for future characters. If you want a challenge go and solo conundrum 12 it’s always available
@@mauriciorosademoraes9209 and when was the endgame content ever fun? You clear it for jades, the honeymoon phase with each character ends when you use them over a hundred times
so you're complaining that super break makes life easy? Your only real argument was the relic thing but be so real rn, that's not the case for super break only. Lots of pieces are straight up garbage even if you get a character that scales with all stats. I really don't understand what was being said in the whole video. Why do you want to nerf super break? Why does it matter? New players getting access to HMC was terrific, they can clear stuff easier. Lots of people don't care about meta, they want to just play the game and I say this as a meta slave. What's wrong with wanting units that require less time to farm for? At some point the meta will shift again. DOT was on top once, now it's not. Jingliu and Dan Hen IL were on top, now they barely make the tierlists. Superbreak will also go away and a different meta will be established without needing to nerf it. Why are we mad about super break being good for now?
The reason I think superbreak is a problem is mostly ease of access. All you need is BE and speed, and that's it. You're going to be doing 10s of thousands or even hundreds of thousands of damage. Toughness ignore only makes that more relevant for characters like firefly/boothill/rappa/etc. It takes away nuance from the game when you only have to do one thing to clear. The game is easy as it is. Having superbreak only makes it even easier, and I don't think that's a good thing. At the end of the day, it's just my opinion, I fully understand if people don't think it's a problem, and I appreciate the comment telling me your thoughts on it!
My point being: The endgame content will forever be harder for older units to clear. That's how they sell the new characters. Firefly, boothill, rappa will fall off at some point too because someday they will be old units as well. This is a gacha game, the meta is always shifting. Remember when you could just brute force your way through any MOC stages with jingliu? Now she's barely on tier lists. This will be the case for superbreak. The moment the new content doesn't give buffs to super break and caters to different style, super break will also fall off. That's just how it works. If you don't like it then the gacha game scene is just not for you.
@lovemyselfmariya7765 I feel like I have to disagree with that, because you're comparing characters on a tierlist(jingliu) to a game mechanic(superbreak). In the new simulated universe mode they even directly name break as one of the 4 main damage types. It might fall out of the meta temporarily in the future, but they're definitely not going to remove its viability entirely, that just doesn't make much sense. Even when ff/rappa/boothill leave the meta, I wouldn't be surprised if they introduce something like a FF 2 later that will do what she does but better, and then we're right back into it.
@@fl2urand why exactly is that an issue? Not sure if you’re familiar but that’s literally how every gacha game works, things change and sometimes things will be easier with new players. Either way it’s a single player game and you control the buttons you press. If you think easy relic farming, consistent damage,and cheap and f2p teams are an issue stick with 3 months farming for the perfect crit piece and be done with it and don’t bother with break.
@@erickgonzalez2887 Farming relics doesn't really have any relevance to how superbreak effects the state of the game. If everyone has access to high damage, then that means that the damage floor has been raised. That also means that in the future when characters are balanced and released, they will *always* have to keep superbreak in mind, because why would you roll for a character that deals half the damage of another one that's doing superbreak. At the end of the video, I even say I don't hate superbreak as a concept, I just think it's way too strong for how little effort you have to put in to get it working, and in the future I'm concerned that the result of it is going to be even more powercreep.
I have to agree with 100 % you said. I also dislike how bias the HSR devs are. You clearly notice that they adore Firefly 10 times more than other units. Boothill got no support besides also being break...Firefly got an entire 5 star team deticated to having fire weakness implant.
Superbreak is their hyperbloom. It exists bcoz of their stupid stamina gating. U nid to give ppl a good gear progression experience and the best way to do that is to make good dmg accessible without much commitment. Ppl may just quit the game just bcoz login logout makes for a terrible experience. On top of that mihoyo game design is always one shot simulator. Nothing matters other than doing more dmg unlike other turn based games. Some gachas hv standardised gear so that they can balance fights around that and make fights more about strategy than big dmg. Rng gear makes money, that's why mihoyo does it, coz it endless and pander to those whalers with min max boners that wud make content on it advertising the game. But who says they cant introduce new meta but still its gonna just be do big dmg, spend cash on eidolons. Its not gonna change, its easy money without needing to make creative fights and u know mihoyo, they care more about money and animation more than great gaming experience but to each their own coz ppl seems to think hsr endgame modes r the greatest.
I'd say that instead of dendro overall, Super Break is more akin to Hyperbloom. I what I don't like the most about it is the overreliance on specific characters that makes team building a joke, just slap HMC and Ruan Mei and there's your team. On the other side I do agree on your point about relic building, Super Break just killed the Break Effect stat, you either use it for Super Break or you don't use it at all.
