Surround Speaker Height 

Thanks

Did you end up placing the angle downward? How did it end up?

It probably isn’t hugely important but I can’t say that I’ve ever built a room multiple ways and compared. In general I wouldn’t be overly concerned. Can you flip the speakers to get the tweeter higher? All of this is a tricky balancing act between high enough to avoid blocking a direct path and not so high as to create an angle problem. 5-10 degrees or less is no big deal. 15 degrees can actually be a problem on some speakers and by 20 it’s often a big problem.

@@PoesAcoustics Thanks. Tweeter is on top so flipping doesn't help. I re-measured and tweeter is actually 5' 10" above ground, a little higher than I remembered (ceiling 8ft). From MLP which is 14ft away elevation angle is about 10 degrees. Raising them a few inches will be about 11-12 degrees so not terrible. I was also worried about smearing with the in ceiling atmos layer but as noted the rear pair of atmos is 10ft from rear wall so while there is only 2 ft height difference angular separation I think is ok. But either way it seems like it probably won't be a marked difference as you noted. I'll probably just leave it as is.

@poesacoustics I also have 8ft ceilings but the legacy surround sound rear speakers is pre-wired to place them in the upper side/rear corner of the room. It's a fairly small to medium size room. Even if I angle these rear surrounds downwards, would they sound terrible? I could wire up ear level surrounds but due to the layout of the furniture and pathways they would end up being a trip hazard.

So many variables I don’t know. So it’s hard to say. You could always try temporarily raising them to see. In general the design layout you have will have some compromises. Any time you use a tv like this the image height will be wrong without a lot of work.

@@PoesAcoustics Thanks for your insight. I will have to try blocking them up this weekend. It's simple and almost free to try it. All the best to you and yours, Kevin

I would probably go for the 100 degree location myself. 110 is probably ok but the research that looked at 5.1 originally found that the 90-100 was actually preferable.

@@PoesAcoustics Thank you for the info

It would depend on the speakers directivity. A few degrees may not matter. It’s more about being 15-20 degrees or more. And only with some speakers.

@@PoesAcoustics thanks!

An ideal surround speaker would get louder as you get farther away. Both vertical and horizontal matter for that. Very few speakers have the directivity needed to achieve that. I also doubt highly it matters in a room as much as you might expect. After being very infatuated with the idea of High DI speakers and time intensity trading, I’ve since come to question if this works in practice.

I use the extreme toe-in on my Polk LSIM. It helps anchor the ghost center around my center speakers area for an extra 24 inches left or right. Going any further to either side I start to lose too much information from the most adjacent speaker. Speakers are about 14 feet apart and seating is about 11 feet back from the front stage.

@@williamkramer9069 I am a little surprised that worked but glad you found a good solution. The LSi series has a ring radiator if I recall. Very narrow dispersion up too but fairly wide dispersion speaker through the midrange and lower treble. When I measured the L800’s I was surprised how badly the ring radiator beamed above 10khz. To the point I thought it was a mistake. I later measured a number of Polk speakers with the ring radiator tweeter and they all do it (and googling the ring radiator showed me that this was a known attribute of that tweeter). I wonder if the extreme toe works because of the very narrow HF dispersion?

@@PoesAcoustics yes you are right. That's why it doesn't work on the extreme ends of the room. Sitting 0 degrees Infront of the left speaker you barely hear the highs from it. I think moving the speakers even further apart would help but at that distance one would start running into volume output problems. I find it odd that there isn't a different waveguide to help with the directivity of their newer lines (legend and reserve) but perhaps their next iteration. And I'll add that as long as the off axis sound continues to decline in a consistent manner, it would seem to me to be a benefit in crossing the speakers Infront of the money seat so that the opposite seat to each speaker benefits from extra volume vs distance. But you wouldn't want to put the main listening position in a hole of the off axis response in a bad directivity speaker.

Thank you. Fixed. That was a typo.

@@PoesAcoustics Awesome! just to let you know your algos are working for you right now! I have no idea who you are or I dont even look up these stuff but you were recommended to me out of the blue! good luck!

Hah, I work for him! I am a sub contractor to PMI as a senior engineer for home theater design. So yes, I've been influenced by him. But...We also get along in part because we follow a similar thinking around how to interpret and practically use the science basis for this work. For obvious reasons, there is little and often no research into what would make the best home theater. Nobody did randomized controlled trials of 3-4 different design approaches to figure out which ones were most preferred or yielded the best results. No ABX testing, no MUSHRA testing, etc. It just hasn't been done. Most of the work focused on isolated variables in unrealistic scenarios that require you to translate what they found into practice. One example, researchers originally only studied the effect of diffusers on sound by looking at one diffused reflection and no other reflections at all. Surprise surprise, diffused reflections were better. Then they began adding in other reflections, you know, like exist in a real room, and more expected, the final results were far more complicated. They didn't find diffusers to no longer matter, they do and they have a benefit, but it became clear that complex reflections themselves have a similar benefit to diffusion. So yet more work is needed to better understand specifically which diffused reflections are most helpful.

@@PoesAcoustics it seems like a lot more research is needed especially in small room accoustics. I think the hard part is trying to deal with the complexity of the whole set up. When looking at things in isolation it is one thing but when you put the whole system together it turns into a totally different thing. LOL you need to find someone to put many millions into funding some trials. The research itself would probably end up being pretty complex because of all the variables! We can all dream!

I'll try to address it as well as I can. If all you have is one seat and one person, then all speakers should be at ear level or the speakers listening axis (some speakers aim the sound up or down). In multi-row theaters with multiple chairs, having the speakers at ear level (or the listening axis) creates a problem, peoples heads are in the way now. By moving the speakers above ear levels, you overcome this issue. Often all speakers get moved over ear level to some degree, but at a minimum, the surround speakers should be above ear level. You still need to stay within the listening window, so around 5 degrees or so is ideal. Front LCR speakers should never be below ear level, they should ideally be at their listening axis to ear level. However, if you have multiple rows, moving the speakers up some can be a good way to cover the back rows better. Again, often no more than a 5 degree downward or upward angle. So all seats need to be within +/- 5 degrees of the listening axis. Surround sound speakers do not need to be 3 feet above your head or even above your head at all. Technically they should be ear level. However, as already stated, sometimes you have issues with other rows and people, so moving it upward by 5 degrees can improve sound. That can't be made into a fixed foot amount. Obviously tops or ceiling speakers need to be overhead.

@@PoesAcoustics I totally have heard this... In my Home Theater Room I have a 75 inch Mini QLED TV on one Wall and a 120 inch Projector Screen on another Wall. My Center Speaker is under my TV it is at ear level when I am sitting down. My 4 Surrounds my Subwoofer and my Main Left and Right Speakers are all 6 feet off the Ground. The Speakers are all angled down to the Listening position. I have a 7.1 Surround Sound System. My Center Channel is ELAC 2.0 6.2. My Surrounds are Fluance Signature Surround Sound Speakers. My Subwoofer is Acoustic Audio PSW600-15 Home Theater Powered 15" LFE Subwoofer Black Front Firing Sub My Main Left and Right Speakers are YAMAHA NS-6490 3-Way Bookshelf Speakers. This setup Sounds Amazing for both Music and Movies. I have a powerful Pioneer AV Receiver that easily powers all these Speakers. It is too loud at 25%. I listen at about 15% and when I walk outside with the door closed I can still hear my speakers from more than 10 feet away. This is OK because my nearest Neighbor is over 40 feet away. I actually hate the look of ear level speakers all around the seating it is Ugly and the Speakers are Completely in the Way. At Movie Theaters All the Speakers are on the Walls and in the Ceiling more than 6 feet above my head. The Sound I have is equally good from every place in my Home Theater. The Sound is immersive. My Fluance Speakers are Dipole Surround Sound Speakers with one 5 1/2 inch Woffer and a 1 inch Tweeter on each side pointing in opposite directions. It is actually 8 Surround Sound Speakers because my 4 Dipole Surround Sound Speakers are double Speakers. Most people use a Surround Sound Speaker that has one tweeter and one woofer. So they have 4 Speakers that cover half of what my Surround Sound Speakers cover. I cannot escape hearing these Speakers. I have seen the setup you are talking about in numerous Home Theater Videos and I Hate the layout and would Never want the Speakers that close to my ears. All the Speakers I have Sound the best from a distance. The best way for that distance is to have them up High on my Walls. This gives me the proper vertical and horizontal distance from my speakers so they sound how they should. When I watch people who make videos showing off their Home Theaters. I see what I have done in their Home Theaters. A small amount of people have Speakers behind their Projector Screen. These Speakers are well above ear level. I have not seen any of their Home Theaters with Speakers at ear level. The Speakers are either mostly in the ceiling or High on the Wall. It is Not comfortable to have a Speaker 2 feet from your ears blasting while watching movies or listening to music. In a few videos people have said that they originally had their speakers at ear level but they moved them to High on the Walls because it was horrible having the Speakers so close to everyone's ears.

@@JesusSavesSinners it sounds like you have an agenda and I can’t help you with that. You can like what you like and that’s fine. You don’t have to like the correct way to do it. But much of what you say here is incorrect. I already explained the how and why.

@@PoesAcoustics Wow!!! You got Nasty 😠! You are the one with an agenda NOT ME! Everything I said is correct and not just for me. You are completely Wrong to say that my Speaker setup is Wrong. It provides absolutely the best possible sound for my Home Theater. A typical AV expert will do their Video then say something like this: (Actually I have heard this exact statement, and several similar statements as this one): "Of course this setup will Not Work for Everyone. In many Home Theaters it is Not even possible to have your Speakers at ear level. No one wants a Speaker blaring into their ears. Which would happen in many rooms that are too small to have the Speakers at ear level. I personally think only the Center Channel should be at ear level. You might have to angle it up or down to achieve that. You actually want your other speakers above ear level because people's heads will block the sound. In many rooms the best setup is to have your Speakers High on the Wall or in the ceiling so the Speakers are Not blaring right into people's ears. Just angle them down and space them evenly." My comments are all correct. You have been very rude to me. What I have said is just the Truth shared by countless people before me. Stop being rude to people who actually took the time to watch your entire video.