Suspension Basics 01: Suspension Component Movement 

I'm blown away by your comment. To be compared to Handy is huge. Jam's video on how a differential works was absolute magic. And these kind words coming from an automotive teacher is an honor. I just hope I can make you proud with future videos. Thank you.

@@GarageFab You are welcome!BTW, I subscribed after the first video that the algorithm thought I might like. This was my second! I still watch Jam Handy films but really looking forward to slow days at work so I can view all your content.

Even more thank you! 🙏

Haha! Much appreciated my man. I graduated from High School a year late so that means a lot! There’s a bunch more in the works. I’ll be getting back at it shortly. Thank you, Brother!

Thank you my friend. 🙏 Your words mean a lot! They provide some very much needed motivation. It’s a wee bit more challenging than expected so comments like these help quite a bit.

Thank you Pete! Without actually measuring, I would guess that the length of your driveshaft is the same as the distance between the front and rear axis of your trailing arms. I’ll soon be working on a video I plan to call “Third Links” That discuss how non-suspension components (like driveshafts, CV axles, steering tie rods, air every motorcycle chains) interact with suspension components as they move. I think it’ll be really interesting. See you then!

Thank you, Bernhard! It’s more work than I expected so your words are greatly appreciated. See you in the next one! Cheers!

Thank you for the kind words my friend. Certainly NOT a God in any way. Have you already seen my driveshaft video? THE Driveshaft Video. The Nature of U Joints. Suspension Basics Ep. 06 ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-YgNZfIR-8Ng.html I don’t remember discussing two piece shafts in that video but the basics are still necessary to understand the advice I’m about to give… You will more or less be IGNORING your trans/crank angle. Instead, you’ll be matching your pinion angle to the first section of driveshaft. (Shaft inside the differential will be parallel to the first drive shaft at the transmission) Ideally your front shaft will be about 1° up or down in relation to your transmission angle. 1° away from a straight U joint will keep the needle bearings and grease in the joint moving, preventing premature wear. So an example of a good set up would be Engine/trans is that 3° down, first section of driveshaft is at 2° down, and your pinion angle is at 2° up.

Thank you Erik! Your kind words are greatly appreciated. 🙏 I’ll return the compliment: After hearing you say in your Battery Basics video, (Paraphrased) Good help isn’t found, It’s created. I realized we’ve got similar mindsets. You keep it up as well. I’ll be watching. Cheers my friend! 🍻

Thank you for the kind words, Doug! The IFS is certainly coming just as soon as we wrap up the rear on my Wife’s Mighty Max, but it could be quite some time until I get to talk about independent rear setups. My next truck build which I’m incredibly excited about unveiling will be fully independent front and rear so the discussion will definitely be had. But unfortunately not until next year if I’m being realistic. Hopefully you’ll stick around for it. It won’t disappoint.

I’ll do my best, Kristian! Glad to have you. See you soon.

Thank you, Dean! You are very much appreciated. And I appreciate learning a new word! “Levity.”

Nice! Thank you. Happy to be of service. Lemme know how it crosses over to the RC world!

Never too late! Thank you Daniel. 🙏 You said all the right words to get my happy juices flowing. (Ew) 4 link, Old car, V8, manual trans… I’m excited to see your project. I’m not familiar with the calculator you mentioned, but still I recommend you use it! My knowledge will only get you a suspension that works without binding or breaking, with proper pinion angle regardless of suspension travel. When it comes to racing and superior traction, I can only share the basics. I simply don’t have the experience needed to understand geometry at a racing level. Best of luck my friend, and stay safe.

Thank you, Rich! Happy to have you. See you in the next! 🙌

My pleasure Kevin. Happy to be of service. Thank you for donating your time!

Haha! Two VERY good choices on the regular suspension and 2wd. The air struts can be swapped out with regular ones but it still would’ve been pricey.

I’ll give it a shot!

Good advice. Ironically, I use overhead projector film while doing upholstery for the same reason. Never considered using it in fab work. Thank you, Earl!

But can it make my Uni bits happy after I’ve already made them unhappy?

My pleasure, Matt! Thanks for watching.

Thank you, Blake!! I agree. Feel free to share with anyone you think would benefit from it! 🍻

Nice! That means a lot, Robert. Thank you. 🙏

Thank you Keith! I appreciate your time and I’m happy to have you aboard. You popped in at a weird time. Life got too busy to create videos for a while, but I’m back at it. The next video is in production as we speak and should be out pretty soon. I’ve also got SO many plans! There’s 4 or 5 unique vehicle builds and bunch of short form fabrication tips and tricks to fill the gaps between long form videos. Don’t be bummed. I’ll see you soon. Cheers!

Always how it’s been. Let’s change that!

There might not be anything wrong with 5° up! It all depends on your transmission output shaft angle and the design of the link bar setup! In your new build, be sure your transmission and pinion angles compliment each other. The link bar setup is a whole other thing.

Thank you for your time, Joel!

That’s what I like to hear, Carlos. There’s nothing you can’t do. I’d be happy to try and guide you through it the best I can. You can hit me up here, Instagram DMs @GarageFab, or email GarageFab702@gmail.com

It’ll work. It’s not my favorite but you can often make it work with the factory leaf spring mounts. Just make sure you install a double cardan joint on the front of the driveshaft if it’s not there already.

I’ll answer in reverse order. Mounting link bars as close to the wheels as possible provides more axle stability. Therefore mounting link bars on the outside of the frame is generally better. Imagine, if you can, the bench press at the gym. With your hands positioned close to the weights, you’ll have far more control of the bar than you would if you put your hands closer together. Using this comparison, hopefully you can see how wider set bars can limit abnormal motions of an axle. Mounting bars closer to the wheels also put less stress on the axle tube if you’re mounting springs/bags on the link bars. So why doesn’t everybody position their link bars on the outside of the frame? The factory design of the frame has a lot to do with it. Two excellent real world examples are the 70s Chevy C10 and the Mitsubishi Mighty Max. The C10 has a fairly narrow frame with LOTS of room for bars on the outside of the frame. In fact the leaf springs are originally mounted on the outside of the frame. On the other hand, the Mightymax frame rails are built in very close proximity to the wheels. The leaf springs are mounted under the frame. There is absolutely no room for link bars on the outside. The only options are to either mount the bars inside, or cut the frame off and build it from scratch so that you can mount the bars closer to the wheels. Most commonly people choose the easier option. Let me know what you think!

@@GarageFab Thank you very much for your explanation. This was very helpful and easy to articulate. I love the simplicity you use in your video's for the garage DIYer's such as myself. I look forwarding to watching more and learning along the way. Thank you and keep up the great work!!!!

Thank you my friend! I appreciate your words and appreciate your time even more. See you around! 🍻

I’d prefer VHS if you don’t mind.

So very much appreciated, my friend! See you in the next one. 👊

Thank you my friend. Your kind words are greatly appreciated. I also appreciate learning new words. (Didactic) The “Why” has always been the most important thing to me and it often answers questions all by itself. Cheers!

There’s something special about learning that I just didn’t feel when I was a kid. Gaining knowledge now triggers a joy in me and so it’s become a craving. Happy to help, Manny! Thank you. 🙏

Yes your spirit and enthusiasm adds value and makes watching a pleasure. Keep up the good work.

Air suspension is the way to go my friend! I occasionally like a stiff sporty suspension, but nothing compares to the luxurious cloud-like feel of air springs with low pressure. Thank you, Danny! 🙌

Thank you, Brian! I’m excited to have you on board. Your words mean a great deal to me and have provided me with some much needed motivation. So you in the next one!! 👊

I would have been 4 years old and aside from being adorable, I don’t think I would’ve been much use to you. 😂 Thank you, Joseph. That means a lot!! You are appreciated.

I think your understanding is correct, Sir! Lemme throw an additional piece of info in there that hopefully won’t confuse… Longer link bars are generally better on adjustable height suspension, but perhaps more important is the relationship between the length of the link bars and the length of the driveshaft. The slip yoke in a drive shaft is there to make up for the difference in front to back movement of the link bars and the driveshaft. Worded differently, if the link bars and the drive shaft were exactly the same length, you wouldn’t need a slip yoke! I’ll be working on a video soon that I’m going to call “Third Links” that talks about the relationship between suspension components (link bars/control arms) and non-suspension components like drive shafts, tie rod ends, etc. I think that one will be pretty interesting. 👏

Thank you my friend! You are very much appreciated. 🙏

Thank you, John! If that is your real name. You are appreciated. 🍻

Wow! That means a lot, Neel! That’s coming from someone that hated school with all his heart. Thank you for the kind words, my man! 🍻

Thank you, Sean!

Ouch!

Thank you! Amazon. I can’t find the ones that I purchased, but these are similar! amzn.to/3SZNOj3

Thank you, Matthew. That’s greatly appreciated! School and I didn’t get along either. I was bored and stubborn and refused to take part. It took a lifetime to realize learning was actually enjoyable when someone made it entertaining. Lighting comment is good to hear too. I retired from wedding photography for this. 😂 There’s many more videos on the way. Hope to see you there! Thanks again. 🍻

Eres muy amable. Solo estoy tratando de compartir mi conocimiento con todos los que puedo. 👊

Thank you TJ! Body off is definitely the way to go. It creates some challenges and unfortunately math is involved but overall the build will be much easier! The Electra is a super cool car. I can’t wait to see where you go with it. What are your full plans for the suspension? Will it be adjustable height? Lowered but static? I ask because most of the time you don’t need to know factory height. You get to make it all up as you go. But yes, assuming the vehicle was built with modern principles in mind, if the panhard bar is level with the ground (parallel with the axle) that should be the factory ride height. Unless you’re building a static height vehicle and you know you want it 4 inches lower than it was, factory height shouldn’t matter. More important things to know would be how far the frame hangs below the rocker panels. (If any), and where on the frame the center of the rear wheel opening is located. (If the axle is still mounted on the frame, it’s usually a safe assumption the axle was already centered) My final ride heights on static vehicles are based solely on the height of the frame rails, taking into consideration anything hanging below them like crossmembers or transmissions. Never the body. Usually on smaller vehicles, 2-3 inches. A longer car might be a bit different if you don’t want to scrape every driveway. This was my attempt at vomiting answers at a question I didn’t fully understand. If I missed the mark lemme know. I’ll try again.

Thanks for the response Originally I was going to use 2" lowering coil springs in the stock location. The four link brackets will need to be located on the axle near their location..... so I'm thinking coilovers. 3" lowering springs up front with factory suspension components. I've never been a fan of the ride quality on bagged cars. Plus all if the components and plumbing associated. As for the frame, it hangs below the rockers 2.5". The cross members, oil pan and transmission will be above frame rail bottoms. Exhaust will be a mother to get routed all the way to the back, but that's another enjoyable dilemma for another time. Hopefully I gave you some good info?? Thanks And happy Thanksgiving to you and yours

Thank you my friend! I’m hoping to have the opportunity to visit the UK in February. 🤞 The CJ7 is certainly NOT my typical vehicle, but the basics apply to just about everyone. Feel free to ask questions during your build. I’d be happy to help the best I can. Cheers!

@@GarageFab ha might do that as like the idea of having a compressor to operate ride height to lower to get in and out then ride height would be at the max travel cheers Sam

Thank you for your time and eyeballs, my friend! 🙏

Thank you my friend! All in good time. We’ll get there! 🙌

No better compliment could be said. I struggle to make things clear and understandable. Thank you!

My pleasure, Brother! It’s what I do! Thank you for the kind words. 👊

Thank you Mike!! See you around. Cheers!

My pleasure my friend!

The longer the better within reason. The closer your link bars are in length to your drive shaft, the less the slip yoke will have to move. Also a longer link bar means less forward and backward movement of the axle

Thank you Scott! 🙏

Anytime, John.

I think it the future videos I'm going to incorporate a graph paper background to make movements much more visible.

A little something I created many years ago. Project D350 Homicide Doors ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-yBSSQi4XgOY.html

Thank you!! I will. 🍻

My pleasure. Thank you for your time. 🙏

I actually didn’t make them! I purchased them on Amazon. I believe they were for some sort of RC truck. They’re super cool. They have tiny little Heim joints built in and it comes with several different size tubes so you can change lengths.

@@GarageFab thank you

Haha! I most certainly will but it might be a awhile until I get there. Until then I'll give you some bits and pieces. I'm strongly anti-reverse link. There are several reasons, ranging from drive shafts pulling out of the transmission to traction and braking issues. If you have some time look up "solid axle death wobble". It's a common issue with Jeeps and some other vehicles with solid front axles. If you read for a while you'll find there are many "remedies" but no one can agree on one. "Tires, shocks, alignment, suspension joints" One thing they all have in common; forward facing link bars. I've also heard of similar wobbles in reverse link mini trucks. Lastly have you ever seen semi truck skid marks? They often appear to look like dotted lines because of wheel hop. Interestingly it's only one axle on these trucks that hops consistently. One of the rear axles is connected with rearward facing link bars and one axle has forward facing bars. Guess which one hops. The fuel tank relocation is the most common reason people opt for reverse four link but it's really not as challenging as it seems. If you can weld links bar mounts you can make some tank mounts. Then extending some fuel lines and a few wires and you're done. If you insist on keeping the tank, perhaps we can come up with a three link design with watts link or panhard bar that would work for you. You got this. Thank you!

One evening around 4 am it got smacked from behind as it sat in front of my house. The hit-and-run destroyed the bed and cab but the frame made it out ok. If you want to see images of the destruction, check out my video about the DIY Frame Rotisserie. It will be resurrected better than ever. That project begins as soon as my Wife’s Mighty Max is rolling under it’s own power hopefully mid 2022.

Thank you Richie!

It’s very difficult for me to picture a suspension design from words, Kurt. I’m a visual guy! After reading that 20 times, I’m envisioning a wishbone suspension, where the upper links form a solid triangle, and two lower links are parallel to the frame. This is a commonly used setup and is a good design for street rods. If this is actually what you’re referring to, no axle locator system is needed. (No panhard bar or watts link necessary) The solid triangle link keeps the axle centered. Mounting the point of that triangle off-center would make handling less ideal for racing but it’s probably fine for cruising. That’s a convo for another day. As for the one link setup you mentioned, I’m struggling to see that one. I’m wondering if you meant one bar on each side. A single link would have to be huge, it would have to be solidly mounted to the axle still might not be all that stable without bracing. Once braced it would resemble the old “torque tube” suspensions. If you want to shoot me some photos, find me on Instagram @GarageFab. Maybe I can better help you.

@@GarageFab yes you got it. Origin Ford used a big tapering oblong tube to locate rear axle and just like the front “wishbone”suspension joined in center of frame. Early hot riders split front and rear to allow engine swap and lower ride height

@@GarageFab and thank you! I’ve subscribed got some catch n up to do Lucy

Haha thank you for your support my man!

The basics, absolutely! I’d be lying if I told you I knew how well each setup performed off road. But it’s pretty certain you’re going to need to deal with drive shafts, pinion angles and the geometry needed to make everything work. I can tell you that triangulated 4 links are a popular choice for both trophy trucks and rock crawlers. I’ve seen parallel 4 links on mall crawlers but who the heck knows if those can actually crawl anything. Thank you for the kind words my friend! 🙏

@@GarageFab thx for the info, these videos have taught me more then the hours of useless research has, thank you

Haha! My pleasure my man!

Should be ok. Go with a wall thickness of at least 3/16” for tubing that small.

@@GarageFab ok thks for the reply

Right?! I don’t what point we stopped asking why. Maybe after our parents said it was annoying. I think this is why I failed so miserably in school. There wasn’t much focus on the reason for things.

@@GarageFab Yup!! In order to finish high school i had to redo math from pre-algebra. Thankfully i was able to find a college professor that insisted on explaining “why” for everything, and multiple methods to every problem. With his instruction i really excelled. And it’s something that I’ve started to enjoy about the welding and fabrication community is a lot of people are like minded and if you ask why, a lot of them are ready to explain. Some won’t, and i almost assume it’s because they don’t know why and they’re just doing what they were told to do.

@@bigzoffroad Our histories are shockingly similar.

Thank you! Honored to be mentioned in the same comment as some of the greats. Long before his book, Fish definitely played a role in a lot of the knowledge I have today and has always been willing to answer my questions.

Thank you! I'm excited to make 'em!

*Throws up the “Double M” gang sign*

Haha! Thank you Roger.

Scott!!! You’re welcome. Check back soon. There will be more. 🍻

Mission accomplished!

Thank you Shaun. I appreciate your kind words. Cheers! 🍻

@@GarageFab your very welcome my friend. Merry Christmas 🎅

Thank you! Cheers!

My pleasure, Adam.

My pleasure my friend, thank you for watching.

Thank you Larry! You are appreciated. 🙏

Thank you Devin! Thrilled to have you. If you’ve got questions you know where to find me. Cheers!

Loud and clear!

@@GarageFab angle not angel Lol

👼

Thank you, Nicholas!

Thank you! That would be appreciated. You are appreciated. There’s several more to come. 🙌

Yes!!! 🙌 Those words mean a lot to me, Maria. Thank you. Best of luck on your journey and don’t be shy about asking questions. I answer all that I can. Cheers!

Ask away, my man! It won't be easy to describe the "why" in writing, but I can definitely tell you the rules to follow and how. If you're not in a hurry, the next suspension video will be on pinion angle which will have ALL the info but that'll be a few more weeks.

@@GarageFab I am currently working on my 85 c10 2wd. I'm building a set of parallel 4 link bars for it. My motor is at 4.8 degrees, tail end down, driveshaft is at zero degrees and the rear end is a 4.8 degrees nose up. will that function properly? I've done everything to minimalize the angle, but I'm outta room because of the trans tunnel, headers etc.

Well that’s easier than expected. Your setup is perfect! 😀 If your parallel 4 link is actually parallel and your upper and lower bars are the same length, you will maintain that 4.8 degrees at all ride heights. The angle of the drive shaft itself will constantly change but that's not a concern. Keeping the output shaft of the transmission and input shaft of the differential parallel will prevent any vibration from the drive shaft even at extreme angles. You're spot on, Trevor. Excited to see your project. 🍻

@@GarageFab Awesome, I've just heard so many different ways. They are parallel, I have a plasma table so I drew it all out on there and cut the brackets accordingly. Thanks a bunch for your help!! I'm subscribed and can't wait to watch your new videos!!

Must be nice!!! Haha! Looking forward to having a table myself in the near future. Thank you, Brother. Glad to have you.

You’re my type of person my friend. School was always the how and rarely they why. Perhaps I’m abnormal, but often the why is enough for me to come up with my own how. How’s the journey going so far? Have you got a project or just a desire to learn?

Oh boy! 😂 Thank you for the kind words, my man! 🙏

You are very much appreciated, my friend! 🙏