Switching to AMD Pt 2: The Bugs 

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Really doesn't matter as a 4090 costs $2500 if you can find one in the US. So a $900 XTX is a steal. In the end the consumer loses by the greedy green company.

Did you try the newest 23.12.1 drivers. It's literally on Fixed list "Improvements to high idle power when using select dual monitor display setups with mixed resolutions and high refresh rate displays (such as 1440p @ 120/144Hz + 1080p @ 120/144Hz or 2160p @ 120/144Hz + 1080p @ 120/144Hz) on Radeon™ RX 7000 series GPUs."

If you look in the AMD driver in the overclocking section, you will see that the increased idle power consumption is caused by the increased VRAM frequency. AMD would have to explain why this is happening. And yes, the VRAM frequency can be changed manually, including changes in the power supply voltage, this leads to a large reduction in power consumption and a large overall speedup of the card, which reaches much higher frequencies. Of course it depends on the specific brand and quality of the parts, but it is not a big problem to achieve 20% more performance. Tested on 6800XT and 7900XTX

@TechLens, you might be dealing with a Schroeder's cat situation. So whenever I check my power usage using the adrenaline software, it always shows a high of around 40 watts. But when I close out the adrenaline software and use another utility like HWINFO64, the power usage is around 7 watts, so it’s adrenaline that is spiking the GPU usage and power. If you use another utility, you’ll see that your card is not using anything on proper idle. At least, that’s what I find in my case.

With the current drivers as of Dec 24 2023, my 7800xt's idle power draw is at 9w. That's with a 1440p primary display and a 1080p secondary. Even if I have a bunch of windows and programs open, idle still only goes up to about 12w. When I open my browser, which does have hardware acceleration enabled, idle does jump up to around 40w. Granted, I'm on windows 10, whereas it looks like you're on 11, so I don't know how much of a difference that might have. I do also have a bit of an undervolt set, so take that into consideration as well.

With the 6700XT I never had a high power draw in idle with my 2 monitors (1440p 27" 144hz IPS+ my old 1080p 24" 60hz TFT, around 14 watts or so). The only "issue" I had was that my GPUs memory speed went all the way up when my main screen was set to 144hz in the desktop. I wouldnt have noticed it it I hadnt used HWmonitor. What fixed it was setting the screen to 120hz. It wont affect games and on the desktop it doesnt matter whatsoever. Cant think of any other issues in my case..

Great video to observe a general “out of the box experience” as this is how many people are going to use their gpus. I personally don’t do a lot of tweaking on colour ranges for games unless it’s recommended to fix certain conditions. Even with video editing (new hobby and still learning the basics) on my Nvidia GPU on my HDR Mini LED Cooler Master GP27U 4K monitor I only edit the colour profile for my HDR content (which I don’t do much of) but leave it at SDR defaults for my general web browsing and gaming needs. Ultimately a good out of the box experience is what should be expected, I feel, for everyone.

My 4090 power draw is basically identical 1,2,3 monitors. 70w - 3 , 22w - 1 . But heres something important. Does your card bios prevent the fans switching off if using more than 30w? My 4090 does. EVERY F@)(#*$@ time I turn on my computer I have to switch off all my monitors and stare at my desktop like a chump until the fans switch off. And if my power draw hits 100w for a split second I have to turn off all my monitors again and wait like a F)(#*$)( chump. Every time i'm sitting there thinking about ripping off jensens nutsack. I really truly hate this card. F#$)( GALAX and F$%(* nvidia.

Thank you very much for your help and hard work on these videos part 1 and 2. Just wanted to say you really helped me figure things out for me. I have one monitor. And an AMD CPU. So The logical choices are to get an AMD video card. So I am still researching this.

You are my new favourite Chanel for tech. Really love the content mate. Thank you!

nVidia Profile Inspector allows one to enforce 2D low power mode on nVidia cards, regardless of the number of displays in use. I've been using it for years to keep my main system's triple display setup from consuming too much power. There is no equivalent for AMD cards. Without one, there's no way to ensure AMD's power consumption doesn't skyrocket with a random driver update.

Good structure straight forward explanations like the presentation easy sub from here. I planning on doing an AMD RX 7800 XT from my old 1060 build so really excited to see how the jump ends up being Nvidia looks like its kinda off in the deep end right now and also that monitor issue is irritating as heck to me.

If your monitors goto sleep then even with 3 connected wouldn't that mean the Idle power draw be in the 20s or less because the monitors are "off". Do you have a way to test this?

Maybe I'm talking stupid things here (if so, then sorry), but did you try undervolting and underclocking your 7800XT? It decreeses power draw substantialy while gaming, maybe it would help with the idle power draw too.

How is the stability and overall performance in premiere / after effects / photoshop etc? I'm really due to upgrade gpu myself and I'm very tempted to go with 7900xt, but if my experience is gonna be worse than with over 7yo 1070 i'm gonna stick with the gree(d)n.

Regarding power consumption, I have about 50-70w with two 4k monitors using 7900xtx. Fortunately, using GPU acceleration in Chrome, power consumption does not increase. And my previous 3080 used the same amount when the browser was open. So the problem is, but when we use a computer, the consumption is practically the same for NVIDIA and AMD.

In terms of out of box experience I had the exact opposite experience when it came to colour setting being set to half on my Nvidia, whilst on AMD it was full colour out of the box. Which I think tells us how the monitors you use can make a huge difference to the type of experience you will get. From what I can see the adrenaline software is showing a setting for "adaptive sync" on your setup which means at least one of your monitors are not Freesync certified, which I suspect is part of the reason why you have high idle usage, it is more likely that AMD would be focusing on certified monitors than the non certified ones. Having said that I have personally had similar issues but a driver update fixed it for me eventually.

Now did you do clean install I found many years of PC gaming anytime you do a major hardware upgrade do a clean install for both windows and any drivers as not doing this can result is issue this can be case with all GPU types. I think Jay2cents talk about this at one point look at his set up your pc posts

I'm pulling 72-74 watts on a 7800 XT while watching this video with 6% GPU utilization and I'm only running one 1440p monitor without freesync. Is that high? What's my problem?

What I did was use a secondary video card, for multiple purposes. For most CPUs today, this would involve using the iGPU. with my 5800X3D, it involved buying a separate GTX1030. First, I only plug the main display I use, a 34" 3440X1440 144hz, for gaming on the main GPU, and then any additional screens, which I have a 10" I use for diagnostic info and a 32" I use for video streaming, to the secondary video card. The secondary card is then set within Windows as the "low power gpu" and have certain apps, like Firefox and Chrome, set to use only that, while the games are able to use the main GPU, a 7900XTDX in my case, for gaming. This eliminated three problems for certain things: idle power draw from the 7900XTX, streaming video stuttering while gaming, and slow mouse response in gaming. All completely gone. In addition, I gained Physx and CUDA capability and better streaming media playback in general. (Nvidia really does have the better decoder.) While at the same time it cost me considerably less than a RTX4080 would have cost me.

You have to be certain your reading the actual correct power draw. A lot of the power readings being given for Nvidia is CHIP power while the AMD is reporting TBP. The actually total board draw for Nvidia cards at idle is likely higher than most report.

Hi, have you try changing the HDMI or DP cables for new HDMI 2.1 or DP 2.0 high bandwidth to see if the high power consumption persist?

This has been a really good video series and has almost convinced me to go with amd… haven’t finished this video yet so let’s see how that goes

About the color/image Quality, funny you mentioned that because that was a common thing since the 90s! People would always say that Ngreedia gpus were always behind Matrox and ATI, image Quality wide. Amazing that it is still going on today.

I have this same high power draw issue on a single monitor system. I even RMA'd the 7900 xtx I had and the new one they sent me has the same exact issue. It's 100+ W all day. It's my own mini heating unit.

Well, my comment turned into a wall of text, but now that I wrote it, I'm not scrapping it. Finally, someone who mentions the TDP and how that might affect the GPU costs over time. I realise this is a 4070ti video, but bear with me on this. I wrote this in another video because I got mildly upset at how people and reviewers, quite literally, only look at PRICE VS PERFORMANCE graphs and nothing else matters. I do some 3d rendering and video editing on my job, and I also game quite a bit, for someone who has a 9-6 job, that is, and I was looking for a new GPU to buy since my 1080 finally gave up and unalived itself with a repair cost of around 150€ from a damaged capacitor (quoting the cheapest repair from 3 shops I went to). Seeing how it was november and everything was on sale anyways (not exactly on black friday or cyber monday) and how I could just sell the card for parts (which I got 170€ for), I started looking for a new one. Now, being someone who lives in a country where electricity is rather expensive (paying around 27 cents per kWh atm), and how I use my GPU for quite an extensive period for tasks that actually make it work, at around 4h a day on average per week, I decided that I didn't wanna question myself if I had a mining rig on my apartment every month when the bill arrived. After going through a lot of specs, benchmark websites and more websites/comments on reddit as if they're all having a cat fight at which brand is best - not enjoyable, I even resorted to AI chatters help to round-up some reviews and general consensus about GPPU's and, guess what, they were as confused as me -, I decided I was getting either a 4070 or a 7800XT. From all the benchmark videos I saw, the 4070 seemed to use 170W on average while gaming, whereas the 7800XT was always somewhere around the TDP level - 260W. Seeing how I did some rendering and video editing besides gaming, I went with an average of 180W for the 4070 and used the 80W difference to make the math. I was going to undervolt the cards too, but I couldn't find any information on how much wattage it reduced on either card, so I just assumed the same amount for either and scrapped that out of the equation. 80W difference for ~4h a day = ~117 kWh a year, a difference of around 30€ a year when you factor the 27 cents per kWh where I live. Mind you, I'm excluding all power differences with idle or moderate computer usage, which I use for work as well, to prove a point. I also bought my 1080 back in march of 2017 (yes, I had hopes I still had warranty on it, for some reason, nvm that), which means I had it for 6 and a half years. So, with the cheapest brand new 4070 costing around 610€ here and the cheapest 7800XT costing around 550€, which card would you have picked? I ended up with the 4070 cus I got mine on discount for 499.99€, which is currently priced at 700€, so the answer was solved after a weekend of torture studying which card I'd be getting without me having to think a lot about it, but what if I had to choose? I wish people and reviewers stopped looking exclusively at graphs of price vs performance and some other key specs while ignoring TDP/energy consumption of a card all together, mentioning it like a snippet that's there to be brushed off, of no importance. You might not think it matters, but it does to some of us. And the "oh but if you can afford a 4070 you can pay the extra 30€ at the end of the year" might be true, but it gets tiring, as well. Aren't we discussing which one is the best value for money? That argument reminds me of people who start a business thinking they have enough money to cover expenses just to find out later that consumables around the office are a thing, and those expenses pile up faaaast, or people who buy a car and forget maintenance costs exist. And to answer the question I posed, I'd still have chosen the 4070. NVIDIA does make good cards for 3d rendering and video editing (yes, the nvidia 12GB VRAM card is faster than the AMD 16GB VRAM, and I don't work on projects big enough where VRAM is an issue - after all, I was using an 8GB GTX 1080 all those years), and as for gaming? Well, I was also proven right. I have no issues playin Cyberpunk on max settings at 1440p and 144Hz with DLSS, and even the least optimized game in 2023, Starfield, I don't go under 110, unless I'm in a city, which goes to 100. I wouldn't regret paying 600€ for one, and I definitely don't regret getting mine for 500. Energy consumption is an important fucking detail to some people and might be significant enough to be worth mentioning, if anything because it might also warrant a change in PSU and/or UPS if you're replacing the GPU alone and not actually building a PC from scratch. Don't brush over it, god damn it.

I've been using AMD RX660 for about 3 years now. Have you tried undervolting the card regarding the power issue? Try moving the GPU to a different system with similar display setup to see if the card is the culprit. You might need to check with AMD or GPU manufacturer support. So far, my experience with AMD has been really good and my system is ready to boot-up and play immediately most the time. However, I do have some issues as listed below-- - Windows automatically updating the drivers to an older version that is incompatible with Radeon Software. I don't know why the drivers are mismatched like this, but I had to disable automatic driver updates for Windows. - Starting from 22.7.1, if I had a game open and Alt+Tab to another window playing a video, the whole system started to lag drastically. Even outside gaming, if I opened the Steam app and played a video in any game's store page, it also caused the same issue. It was fixed in 22.8.1 for me. - My CMOS battery ran out a while ago, so I had to manually set the BIOS settings to enable the usual features for best performance. It was going fine until starting from 23.8.2, Radeon Software would keep detecting the boot-up as a boot-up after crash even though all the BIOS settings were applied. I had to manually apply the Radeon Software settings again everytime I shutdown and startup my computer. The issue was not present when restarting or the wall outlet power wasn't turned off. However, this is fixed after I got a new CMOS battery. - The fan settings would randomly set to Zero RPM mode without any changes. This happens like 2-3 times a month, so I'm still trying to find if there's a pattern. - This is a minor one, but I have to manually load the Radeon Software settings from the file after every driver update.

just like amd have idle issue nvidia also have idle issue, but not idle power, but idle clock frequency, it's rarely mentioned because its just clock speed and people don't really bother to check it at 5:58 on hw info nvidia side I can see 4 clock speed but doesn't know which is 210, 1.250, 1.860 and 210 mhz. I saw those who get clocked way too much on idle on nvidia gpu This bug actually came from monitor not the gpu it self, the cause are simply not standardized monitor, mostly happened in smaller brand monitor or cheap entry monitor. Tldr the gpu doesn't know how much power or freq it need at minimum to run the monitor on idle without breaking the video output, AMD gpu choose to just push the power, and NVIDIA choose to increase its frequency, since each monitor just work different and new cheaper new technology monitor there, this bug will keep continue re appear Nvidia and Amd probably can only make exception and exception for specific monitor how much it need power, but will never fix every monitor there since its just impossible

my system is using linux with the community drivers, with one display my 7900 xtx consumes 22 watts at idle with a 4k display @60hz. with my 4k and 1440p display both at 60hz at idle it consumes 75 watts. maybe its not a driver bug over all or even a windows issue? maybe its just the way any gpu handles connections? I'm curious if intel gpus have the same issue.

6 months on and a potential new AMD GPU around the corner... how's the swap working out? I'm about to replace my 980Ti for a 7900XTX ;)

Have 7800XT and 7900XTX, Am not sure there are minor bugs some game specific, but it's mostly been good.

First video of yours that ive seen doing a side by side without having an obvious huge bias towards one or the other. I'm subscribing and going to go through your other videos, good content, A+

got two different 7800xt and run thru 3 weeks of troubleshooting, games crashes, system freezes, green screens, grey screens .. at the end i bougth a 4070 ti super, now eveything works.

idle power is fix in last drivers, gamma colors, is much customizable in amd, not is a issue...

great vid!

1st of all, this bug was resolved with the latest update 2nd of all, enabling virtual super resolution fixed iit in the pastfor 80% of people

TechLens : I have an IPS 1080p 240 Hz FreeSync 8-bit monitor....and my Idle total graphic power consumption of my RX 6900 XT 16GB is 7,74 Watts when I run it at 120 Hz, and 14,4 Watts when I run it at 240 Hz on desktop. The exact same situation with my GTX 1080 Ti 11GB is 9,4 Watts at 120 Hz and 19 Watts at 240 Hz. On my other IPS 1080p 144 Hz the story of idle power consumptions is very similar. But when I plug both LCD-s together on one GPU, total power consumption in idle goes above 20 Watts but for both, Nvidia and AMD gpu-s. I've also tested this on Vega 64, RX 5600 XT, R9 390, R9 Nano in the past and none of them had so high idle power consumption that you and some reviewers are stating. There is definitely smth wrong in the way you have it set up HW wise or SW wise. As far as the quazi worst Cyberpunk 2077 drawing goes....well I've played that game through and through of both of my GPU-s and they draw that game at Ultra details completely and utterly with the same graphic beauty.

Idea go check and see if something is stopping ur card from dropping to 1 mhz idle cause wit 2 1440p screens I get 15 watts

After update drivers from 70wat on rx7900xt and Lg c2 now i see only 7wats.

So no crashing issues on games then? Will be picking up amd bc of that

i have a 4090 but find myself cheering for AMD or even heaven forbid Intel because we desperately need cometition in the market

Even with Feb 2024 drivers, 2x 1440p with different refresh rates (144 & 95) in my case caused a huge power draw increase at idle. Switching the 95hz monitor to 60hz fixed it, but I ended up switching it for a 144hz monitor. With them both at 144hz, I get the lowest power draw (~15 watts) at idle. That all being said, I had this same problem with my previous cards, GTX1070 and RTX3070. I don't remember the numbers, but I want to say they were in the 50-60 watt range idle, where AMD was around 75 watts.

Next update when?

I would recheck the idle power draw on that INVIDIA card because my 3090 T.I pulls a lot more than 77w at idle with 3 Monitors on

did you ddu uninstall before installing the new driver? If not you must

I have a suggestion regarding the power consumption. Switch to still wallpaper instead of video. In my experience, the video background means a constant gpu usage of around 15%, which increases the frequencies and thus the consumption.

missed oppertunity with the reinstall should ve installed win 10 and see if the issue presists

built 2 all amd systems this past year and no issues with either of them first one was a 5900X with a 6900XT latest is a 7950X3D and an XFX AMD Radeon 7900XT

oh its probably because AMD is rendering the desktop continuously from scratch even when there is no changes so the freesync does nothing and its also rendering the desktop when the monitor is in powered down mode... its probably a low priority problem until some big shot youtuber complain about it....

I have been plagued by AMD driver timeout since I got RX7900 XTX, I wish they would sort it out once and for all.

I have a RX 6700 10GB and it idles at 25W and when I lower the refresh rate from 165HZ to 60HZ it idles at 5W

Just got me a 7900 xt. AT least for me I've not had a single glitch at all, in fact my experience has been smoother than Nvidia. My Nvidia card like the last, had shadow flickering in some old titles I play. IN cluding the panel not even loading sometimes. Or the overlay glitching out. So far this thing on the latest drivers has been perfection.

So… idle not sleep?

7900xtx ive had some artifacting on my secondary 1080p monitor while gaming

Trying to look like Morissey but lying is the exact opposite of what Morissey stands for

Great video, with some niche examples. I would not say that I like yellowish clickbait names of video, but overall good content over here.

I just rollback driver while watching this , new driver was buggy xD

You've forgotten Nvida's biggest new bug ! The 12vhpw connector ...

AMD It's not expensive until you turn on (or have it on already) that *Record Desktop* feature from *Record & Stream* tab, this bad boy was consuming from my RX 6600 about 25W in idle, after i turned it off, now is only at 4W idle.

im ready to shell out $$$$ for which ever card has the best performance either 5090ti or 8900XTX

The thing with power draw is concerning. My findings concerning power draw on Nvidia 1080ti. Power draw and FPS are related in a very strange way but, in load not in idle. My setup: 1080Ti @2K resolution 1 screen. Game AoE4. If I lock FPS from NCP to 60 FPS will reduce temps with 15 C on GPU and also the power draw(roughly 70W). The game is an RTS and with not so good textures even is fairly new game. Look at my 2 videos related to this issue. It doesn't matter which are the maps you chose to ply on. If I lock FPS to 60 just inside the game temps are higher and also big difference in power draw. Game Elden Ring locking FPS in NCP to 59 and not let only the game lock to 60 only, will reduce the temps again about 12-17 C less and the power draw roughly 60-90W lower. For Elden Ring I have only one video and has no FPS lock in NCP. Maybe I will do a comparison in the near future for ER with FPS lock and locked only in the game for everybody to see the difference. In both cases where are the FPS going and power draw going if is not on your screen? Hope it helps.

Your idle Power consumption can be fixed with the Radeon software, create a custom resolution for example if you have 144hz main monitor switch it to 142hz and enable CVT-Reduced and go into windows resolution use the created one and your Vram isn't stuck on 100% and your power will be much less. I would say i'm quite unbiased, I love both Nvidia and AMD but in different times. Nvidia 1000 serie cards omg the best GPUs ever made! but 3000+ series Nvidia and 6000+ series AMD cards. AMD is just truly better for the average PC Gamer onwards, but ofc for whales 4090 will still be the King. I feel like Nvidia today is like the newest Apple they can create anything less and charge a buttload for it and people will still buy it in majority! and that will just do so they never will create something good for the average gamer :( So i think AMD needs to be better for a while so Nvidia will once again be customer friendly.

Great video with logic and reason applied!

Idle should be fixed by now…. I have 7-30w idle with 1440p 144hz Dual panels. Triple Monitor is indeed a problem for me. 90w as long i have 3 Monitors active.

Not sure what everyone problems are with idle power I have a 7900xtx and idel at 9w and literally haven't had any problems/crashes or anything. And with an overclock its every bit as powerful as the 4090 and the games its not is what... 10.. maybe 15 fps at most ? This would explain why my 4090 that's plagued with driver problems, crashes, problems with multi monitors and the loudest coil whine i have ever heard in my life ... This is probably why it sits on a stand on my wall collecting dust. So if you you think 1,200 dollars more for 10 fps is worth it so you can say you have the "fastest" graphics card ... be my guest.

for power, check at the wall. AMD is misreporting power in software.

Create controversy; get views/comments. Good strategy

I have to say MOST of the repair vids I watch just happen to be AMD.

Got a 7900xtx a month ago I’m running into same power issues 100watts idle. Ended up putting 4090 back in and I have 16 watts idle 3 monitors

the 23.12.1 driver fix the issue of mine of power of idling

Mmmm, delicious bugs.

Inable vivid gaming in adrenaline software

Run onboard graphics as secondary. Problem solved!

In the uk, getting an Nvidia card is a much better choice over time, at least this generation. I really want both companies on similar grounds, as prices for Lovelace gpus suck. Hopefully rdna 4 on 4nm will bring efficiency to us at a cheaper cost

thats just you buddy

Nvidia pay you ?

AMD GPU's do have a Higher power draw. You cant really getaround it. I have a 6950XT , 7800XT 6700XT and a 6600 . It is what it is and either you offset the power cost to the price of the card or you pay the NVidia tax and pay it up front. I think it's up to what your pockets can handle at the time you buy.

i do think that amd should work on there software engineering base on this video alone speaks more and what more cost if this could be implimented and used to ai hopefully there not dumb enough to capture future more error even to base lvl even t o there own software has issue like power drawing idle and much more shiit we dont know amd has on its netcode know i used to love amd the graphics relative to there products i agree fsr i like it more than dlss but man cmon work on like how nvidia make things simple and not cause complication towards users it cause less hassle and how would they could affect there brand as a whole in long term 500 series difinitely has the most of this issue and gladly we dont have support to such of this cards but even to there flagship cards like 7000series going there going to be problem if they cant fixed there default software issue even to basic level its convinient yet they had most complications errors and crap going on behind there code if let it open access to help em out there software engineers which could lead maybe to betterment of there product specifically to there card alone exceptions cap for there cpu's top tier but card man nah id like suggest to not buy amd or used it even to ai development and it should be contra banned if ask..

i was mostly maining nvidia in the past - then jumped to polaris - then back to nvidia with Pascal then durring i jumped to Vega and stayed with Vega.... now i am on Intel and honestly? i am staying with Intel my Arc has not been bad for me as many people claims (people that probably never even saw Arc) - A750 since Arc release and now for past 2 month has been running A770 for a daily 1440p use

To be honest, i don't care who produces gpu's or any pc components.. not nvidia fan, not amd fan... Me, like milions of us.. are consumers.. companies.. please me/us, make me to give you money.. that's simple. Thank you for this video and sharing your experience. Yes maybe you are that one in a milion who will have issues like this with both cards.. but it happen, and this is wonderful because we can see what could happen.. more videos like this is very helpful for community. Planing to get xtx 7900 in a few days ( sapphire nitro version ), wanted to go for 4090 but after that.. crazy price jump + chronic melting issues, no thx. I been always nvidia's xx80 buyer, but this time.. i wouldn't even drunk buy 4080.. even if cost 700.. they making a monkeys from consumers in last 1 year with pricing of that card.. it's just principle.. kinda leaning to be personal at this point lol.

Honestly it’s across the board. AMD has a lot of bugs. I have tried switching many times, at this point I have two builds, one with AMD processor and Nvidia gpu and another intel and Nvidia. I just can’t with AMD GPUs, just too far behind on software and stability. And on the processor side, intel is just still so fine tuned compared to AMD at this point.

Use a static desktop wallpaper

Mister Bro I never had any major issues with Nvidia. ATI/AMD Always major issues over the last decades. I try to give them a chance. AMD always let's me down. Intel/Nvidia is the way to go.

I choose the 4090 because it is the king of raster. But also NVIDIA cards are significantly better than AMD at RT and upscaling. That said. Im not a fanboy of any of these companies. I want AMD, NVIDIA and Intel to compete head to head so they oush each other and we, the gamers, win. We dont win when there is just one

i upgraded from 2060 super to 7800xt, worst move ever, graphics feel downgraded washed out, tired everything, also in certain games it not rendering graphics in the distance, go back to nvidia