Switching to Intel Arc - Conclusion! 

surely they must be!

They are basically super users. Companies uses people like that to make the products better. They listen to that kind of use more cause those users have enough knowledge to report clearly the problems.

Let TP control it, get rid of RS. Possibly the most cringe set of videos I've watched in recent years, was seeing Tom Peterson with his superior engineering qualifications and enthusiasm, and Ryan Shroud being a complete corporate marketing lackey shutting down the most interesting topics. I get that RS has a job to do, I just can't give him any respect for how every Arc promo video he was in, that he's a complete sell-out. Every. Single. Video.

They absolutely are. I really hope they make a dent in the market. Options never hurt. It's also worth mentioning how cheap the A770 can be.

Oh, they ABSOLUTELY are taking notes. Videos like these are some of the most valuable beta testing they can get outside of the lab. The problem with products that go out into the wild is that very few customers actually write back to them with their gripes and complaints. Most who feel irritated enough to say anything do so in a one-star review with "this card doesn't work" as their critique. Usually the only chance to start a dialogue happens when a customer tries to RMA the card, but the vast majority of people simply shrug at the minor inconveniences or replace the device with something else. "I knew what I was getting into buying the first gen" they'll say, not realizing that they're perpetuating the problem by not saying anything. You can tell Intel is listening, because they were in close communication after each episode. One day we'd be hearing complaints from Linus on his show, then by the next show he'd be saying that Intel reached out to him immediately with driver fixes, patches, vr alpha drivers to test out. And paying attention to the feedback is honestly what they have to do to prioritize how they put out the neverending brushfire of problems that come with delivering a GPU to market. They're hopelessly behind the curve in this generation of cards, but it gives me hope that the next release will be much more stable and not have quite so many quality-of-life problems.

You can see Linus mouthing along at some points when Luke is speaking, funny lol.

As I understood it Linus only compacted Luke's points so the information would be more dense

@@vectious2237 Yeah - After watching the WAN show I have been wondering whether this was THE video... It sure is subtle, almost as if Luke was Linuses ventriloquistic puppet :D

That explains why the vid flows so well. I like it a lot

tell me you are spending 24/7 at youtube without telling me that you are spending 24/7 at youtube

GOG now is getting DRM'd shit too 😡They didn't have the Mafia soundtrack either I had to actually download it and put it in music and audio folder manually. I hate third party clients so damn much.

... it is impressive IF DXVK is working fine ... In my FC38, Doom Eternal does not launch and Crysis, Crysis Wars and Crysis Warhead has resolution bugs .... If the process to get API trace would not be 10 step copy-paste-install-configure journey, it probably would not be such a hassle to provide quick bug reports..

@@HXunbanned Doom Eternal's id Tech 7 supports only Vulkan, of course it won't work with DXVK.

Intel has developed integrated GPUs for decades, I would not really call them newcomers.

@@WeicherKeks Yeah, but those iGPUs were basically meant for business use, ie just to have something to drive a couple of monitors. This is the first time they have to design GPU hardware and software for high-performance workloads.

@@WeicherKeks Those integrated GPUs were something that competed on Low End GPUs. At best. NEVER competed with Medium End. With a TRUE Dedicated GPU. It's like the difference between Gas Powered Scooters and getting into Mopeds or Motorcycles. Still not car or truck level, but waaaaaaay more than they used to be.

Hmm considering how Intel has a good relationship with Microsoft's operating systems. Microsoft having chat gpt. I see Intel implementing davinci codex on the GPU kernel. That 10$b from chips and science act is just a registration fee. AI integrated chips are now a strategic resource commodity. What better way than through the demanding GPU enthusiast sector.

I really am rooting for intel to keep at it and compete with nvidia and amd. It’s just disgusting how much nvida is price gouging and amd isn’t helping gamers either.

100% my brother

Haven't thought of that. Thanks for the viewpoint

They need to do the same type of challenge but with retro games. DX8 and below. So many good games were made pre-DX9.

@@woopygoman I really don't know a ton of games which didn't use OpenGL but used pre-DX9 and OpenGL is ok in ARC cards.

@@woopygoman LinusTech is not the right channel for that anyway. This is a channel directed for normies.

Well, not their first, first attempt, but first attempt where they have brought to market something at least marginally competitive. On paper anyways. There's a whole webpage dedicated to intels past attempts. I don't think I ever bookmarked it though and I can't be bothered to google it right now tho.

@@Megalomaniakaal aside from arc, xe graphics a couple years ago and the first intel graphics solution, the i740 in 1998, they've never launched dedicated graphics, especially not commercially available ones. it's always been integrated, either with intel extreme graphics and intel gma on the motherboard northbridge chipset, or built into the cpu on everything since. larrabee never officially launched (and it wasn't aimed at home users anyways it seems). so there's really only the i740, intel xe, and now arc as intel dedicated graphics products.

@@dan_loeb Yes, the things in between those never were publicly released. Larrabee perhaps came the closest.

aagh not again this first attempt after attempting 25 years

They have integrated gpu all along. Ofc there are a lot of difference but not that unimaginable

What led you to buy one?

@@Mumbolian Price, they are cheap som places

Curiousity and experimentation, on my part. And I was building an El Cheapo Special project for my Dad anyways, so it's not like he was going to be a performance snob trying to hit 30% extra frames to max out a 144hz 4k display. So he got to be my guinea pig. As long as intel doesn't take their ball and go home, they could make a run, here. Even if they're just fighting for 2nd place in the mid/low tier.

That's good to hear. If they can do good with their driver updates, Intel may be the choice for budget users. And we NEED one given how expensive Nvidia and AMD are getting with their GPU this current gen.

Really good to hear. We need more updated reviews as drivers continue to get rolled out and make it better.

The WAN show is everything to me.

What recent challenges?

@@ethanperez4774 Linux, Arc, and AMD. This video is the conclusion to the Arc challenge, they previously did a challenge where they ran Linux on their main PCs and more recently (I've not actually watched it yet) they've done or started to do an AMD GPU challenge where, like the Arc challenge they use AMD GPUs instead of NVidia.

Yup, same. Got a "cable matters" hub that does that but works flawlessly otherwise.

Same with a usb hub I have that has HDMI out

I get the same message when I plug my laptop into my monitors integrated kvm using the usb c cable as data and an hdmi cable for video.

RTX4090 here, here it is a DELL Monitor. Never had ARK installed bevore. Comes, when a device for charging is connected over usb c of the monitor

@@stili774 oh cmon stop braggin...

But don't get your hopes up. There is only so much that drivers can do for fundamentally weak hardware.

@@sujimayne that's the thing i don't know if id call arc fundamentally weak hardware wise

It's the bottleneck their engineers' whiskey flows through?

@@mythicalducky Exactly. It's kind of like having a super powerful engine, but it's not optimised and therefore lacks a lot of horsepower. Then when optimised, both in software and physically, it's suddenly competitive. Don't buy into a future promise, but honestly? It DOES look promising for Intel. First release and they can be in the same ballpark as some Nvidia cards, that's no small feat.

@@sujimayne It's actually quite believable. On paper the card is strong enough. In practice it is much slower than it should be in many games. For games that already works well it probably won't make much of a difference, but I'm expecting the same thing they already did it with DX9 games by bundling DXVK in the driver. DXVK also works for DX10-DX11 games but for some reasons that's not enabled in Intel's drivers. I have not tested many games, but in specific cases in Final Fantasy XIV (super crowded areas), I got almost double FPS by adding DXVK myself. (Which can be done easily copying a few DLL files in the game's folder)

:)

No pinned comment?

Haha, forgot to pin this

Bold move to post an affiliate link for an Intel Arc GPU after ripping into it for 15 minutes lmao

​@@desmasic Lemme know how it goes, I have a 3060 Ti and I'm tempted to try arc 770 before my shift to next generation cards by 2024

Ahahahahaha. Laughed so hard at this 😅

they mentioned it in WAN and i cant stop looking at it

@Josi Whitlock I wonder, tho, if they hadn't mentioned it on WAN, would it have been as noticeable? I noticed it because i was already aware of it and looking for it...

Don't they use a teleprompter ?

Same at 12:53 :D

Maybe soon after battlemage releases both see how the new GPU and drivers are

You read my mind - They should re-run the challenge with 6 or 12 months of new driver updates

@@ubermidget2 Literally said what I was gonna say LMAO

I have been testing their cards on my channel, in various community requested games. I show REALY gameplay footage, and dont make subjective comments. I want people to see how well this card really runs. I have found that major youtube is immensely missing this (i get it, its a lot of work, i know personaly), but even so. The Arc GPUs are an IMMENSE development in personal computing, arguably a bigger one than ANY other content these channels are covering... yet its mostly ignored.

@@ubermidget2 They barely did the challenge in the first place. they also didnt document it, or explain in depth what games were played, and on which drivers. It was a nice little opinion piece of tech-tainment, but it lacked the objectivity of something kike GN or related channels. heck. i sold my system and bought an arc system JUST so i could make videos myself out of frustration due to the lack of coverage

AMD is way ahead and nobody buys their gpus. Nobody is gonna buy these either and thats fair.

@@iHadWaterForDinner yeah if a 6650 xt is selling for 300 brand new and a 3060ti is over 400 for 5% more fps its clear what people are buying lol

@@iHadWaterForDinner honestly for friends' budget builds, I'm personally recommending AMD stuff to pretty much everyone that doesn't need CUDA

The 770 is a really good buy

@MichaelLivote , do you play forza horizon? if so, how's the game performance on latest arc drivers?

this also affects linux as well, also on their more mature laptop igpus. Hopefully they'll also deal with that in the vulkan native side

Can you not just pre-compile the shaders? I do it on all my Linux machines.

@@luisortega8085 vulkan has been updated to do away with shader compilation stutters

@@AndRei-yc3ti huh really? weird. i get stutters a lot when i play a new game... tested it many times with nfs rivals

@Luis Ortega what distro you on? I'm on arch so I get latest updates.

Not for long if everyone keeps buying amd or nvidia regardless. Intel won't pump out arc just to help you get better prices (which won't happen anyway as nvidia and amd don't and won't take Intel seriously since they know most people won't get Intel) if no one buys their GPU. If arc didn't have the DX issues it would have been worth it somewhat

Linus and Luke are two peas in a pod.

it's all scripted but made to seem like it isn't .... still a good episode..

Dual host is great, and so is the crunchier tech content. Really hope that this becomes something of a model for labs. As much as I hear all the stuff on WAN Show about LTT making what it does for solid business reasons, the actual tech content has always been really good when you decide to damn the the algorithm and get serious.

Especially with Linus and Luke, but I totally see this working out with others

I really wish that Luke would be featured in more content similar to this with the dual host layout because it really brings out their dynamic that they have

Will ARC ever get supported and Good as ATi tech on AMD now? Do we need more parties, or you need to work together on projects, we all use a Car, but one of them does the job in a boat, same results ?

Alchemist is at least their 2nd generation. They had DG1 last generation and decades of integrated GPUs. Seems like they've had an opportunity to work on graphics drivers before asking the general public to pay to participate in this massive beta test.

@@drewdane40 For ARC, you would be wrong. DG1 was a development sample that never hit the market, well, not in discrete GPU's anyway. It is basically the Iris tech that Intel has for their integrated GPUs on a single card, so yeah. The other thing that that some of these issues, were unavoidable. Take the elephant in the room that is Direct X 9 support, which has about a 4 to 10 year life span, 3 API revisions and ALOT of quirks from game to game. Intel has been rather honest about the effort of Direct X 9 support, which is to say.... it going to be a lot of work. What makes this worse is that Direct X 12 doesn't have a emulation layer in for 9... neither does 11, or 10. It one of the things that separates it from OpenGL (but to be fair, that has caused a lot of issues for OpenGL, to the point of Vulkan existing because of them) in that new versions of the API are NOT reverse-compatible and continues to be an issue because, games TODAY still release using the API of DX9. I guess that is why they are force to rely on the WINE subproject DXVK driver, which.... look WINE is VERY, VERY good, but you are not replacing an Windows install with it, same goes for DXVK and DX9, Windows or not. A reasonable point that this video is making that is that we, the consumer, have to gauge our expectations.... even if it's a Multinational, Billion Dollar Corporation the size of Intel. The way that I have been looking at Intel jump into the discrete GPU's, they get two generations tops... to figure things out, after that. Either they hit the ground running or this is dud. Right now, I they they are doing ok.

@@DuvJones You are incorrect. DG1 discrete GPUs absolutely were sold to the public through OEM PC manufacturers. It was widely publicized at the time so you'd have to have been trying really hard to have missed that news. You can buy them today on eBay for about a hundred bucks.

@@drewdane40 No, it wasn't. The DG1 never made production, for reasons know only to Intel. There was no way that Intel made them available to the public, the fact that you find these samples to buy on eBay is really irreverent.

@@DuvJones Intel's own Ark page lists DG1 as "launched," not cancelled. If you Google "DG1 cancelled" the top result is an article titled "Intel officially confirms DG1 GPU is now shipping to OEMs, and DG2 has taped out." It appears you're getting your news from an alternate timeline (or orifice.)

they should definitely do an update when next gen Arc comes too

yep

Did you pick up on it or watch them call it out on the WAN show?

I’d never have known if it wasn’t for the WAN show

But they did forget about the $1 computer 😂

@@aayaan1935 they did not, it has been sold

I was thinking that too.. it sounded like they swapped to other GPUs like a month or two ago… and I thought this thing just started lol.

Link?

@Steve Sherman The hopium train is strong around these parts. "Buy our GPUs, guys! It doesnt work in most competitive games, it also is not capable of rendering reflections without glitching everything, but i swear in (n+2) weeks it will be close to a 3060ti!"

Really seems like they’re already killing the competition at price/performance, at least in games where there aren’t major issues. If they can work out their remaining driver showstoppers, they could be the go-to for budget builds.

@@dschwartz783 I wouldn't say "killing", but it's not that hard to come across as the cheaper offer when you're basically selling your stuff at cost (or even at a loss, maybe). Don't expect Intel to keep doing this. Even they cannot sustain the losses that AXG keeps raking up indefinitely.

@@dschwartz783 They're losing money in these cards, plus saying "it works fine in the games that work" says a lot about the quality of these cards, lol.

@@danieloberhofer9035 well, at the very least it’ll get people to consider them, a very new player to the market. Even if the prices go up a bit, I suspect that once they wack enough driver bottlenecks, it’ll still be the best budget option. I hope they manage to make this a success. The market can definitely use a third player, as it seems AMD has left the budget market.

Intel removed them

@@mycelia_ow I just watched the first

Fyi, you can now add ReBarUEFI to your BIOS on X99 and have ReBar work just fine with Intel GPUs.

@@b0ne91 that's interesting, I just looked it up and never knew a hack was out to do this on X99. Thanks.

Can't remember the specific card now, but years ago I had an ATi radeon card and the drivers were pretty janky. Inexplicably poor performance in certain games, even instability, then good performance elsewhere. The drivers did slowly improve the card over the two or three years I had it, but the experience was enough to ensure that my next card was an nvidia. I like the commitment we're seeing from Intel on these drivers though and I feel we desperately need a new runner in the GPU race, so I've taken the plunge and ordered an A770.

As someone that was in the game when Nvidia and AMD (ATI at the time) entered the arena, I can say that they definitely had bugs. But they weren't really that similar to what Intel has now. It was a long time ago and things have changed so much that it's really not even a fair comparison. The biggest bugs were mostly due to the growing pains of 3d rendering. But I will say this. Nvidia had a few issues with their drivers on very early cards. But they got the driver's sorted out fairly quickly. Nvidia was (and still is) good at drivers. AMD/ATI drivers have been pretty hit or miss for me. Some generations they were fine. Others they were horrible. And that horribleness lasted for years and years sometimes. AMD has come a long way since then though. As far as older games not working? That was fairly common. But that was mostly due to games being specifically designed for use on a specific card and architecture. So you had to find workarounds or settle for lackluster ports. I do remember those days mostly fondly. Being there at the birth of the modern PC gaming community and then watching what it has become is something I'm glad I experienced. Having said that, I wouldn't want to relive it from a user/gamer perspective. It was a major pain in the ass most of the time.

Probably not software API support problems (since there simply weren't as many back then), but issues with basic things not always working, absolutely.

every GPU brand back then had different support and even API for a number of games

I'm proud of you as well, i hope you do a couple hundred bug reports so in 4 years i too can buy an Intel GPU... Except then one that's actually good and not a broken underperforming mess.

@@MrTurbo_ I have used one since launch with only one issue. It's easy to look in from outside and think it's a super buggy experience. But for many users, it's been awesome including myself. They've come a long way in just the 3-4 months since release. Depends on your games as well.

@@MrTurbo_ Your expectations are way off. I have the a770 and it's a lot better than you seem to think it is

@@chronometer9931 well, it's not fast, that's for sure, clearly it still got a ton of issues as you can see in the video, and the fact i mainly play indie games and a lot of older games but at really high resolution and framerate i can't imagine helps much for making the expirience any better

One thing I genuinely don't really understand (and maybe Arc buyers can explain it to me), is why you felt comfortable spending a decent amount of money on an Intel Arc A770, when an AMD RX 6650 XT is actually cheaper and better in every possible way (and, before you say it, no, "faster ray tracing" is not a valid reason for this performance tier). I mean, I would totally give Intel my money if they made a good product (we NEED the competition), but this first generation... is really not it. Spending my hard earned money on something that "mostly works... for newer games" is not something that I would ever consider.

I think 3-6 months would be much better lol

@@josephoverstreet5584 Thats far to much torture.

@@memberberries7669 Lmao let’s settle at 6 months July this year and start the year rotation next year In January

@@leeroyjenkins0 yeah, new hardware can be difficult. I'd be curious if it's up and running on pop yet. I would imagine it would be fine in Arch by now.

do you play forza horizon? if so, how's the game performance on latest arc drivers?

@@eric-. Not really sorry, mostly games like Destiny 2, City Skylines, Supreme commander, Warzone, Modded Skyrim, Crysis remastered, Hyperlight drifter, Mass effect series, Cyberpunk, etc.

@@eric-. Searching Forza Horizon A770 on RU-vid, there seems to be a few videos showing how the game runs and it seems to be fine. Focus on most recent videos first if possible, the drivers have improved a lot (and still need to be improved a lot...).

They obviously need some time to test the cards, then collect all the data and make a video on it.

@Steve Sherman sure

Yep I get it with a 3080 Ti and Dell U2720Q too

That's why I went from my 3070ti to a 3060ti I got in 2020 is this displayport madness. I have two HDMI cables to my monitors and no notifications!

I Am Such A Confused Person!

@@commiequiz …

@@kevin65731 he is confused it seems, maybe we need to keep the sharp objects from him so he doesn't hurt himself

@@thom9106 no we give him all the sharp objects hehe

@@kevin65731 Heh

Isn't 3060 about the same performance card? Why did you change?

@@jothain for AV1 support probably..

@@jothain av1, h265 10 bit 4:2:2, 16gb of memory, intel hyper encode, actually more powerful gpu - there are some reasons. the a770 isnt exactly a 3060 in blue - its actually quite a step up in die size and transistor count, also in raw teraflop. the alchemist cards probably have a lot of untapped power sitting in them, its just not clear how much of these resources can actually be accessed by removing software bottlenecks. considering this is first gen for intel, theres probably alot of room for improvements.

@@houssamalucad753 Oh yeah. Just remembered that Intel has been quite good with some hardware video stuff even in some of their integrated graphics before. That would make sense in editing then.

@@jothain I ran a 3dmark benchmark and it already close to RTX 3070. 3060, even 3060 TI is nothing compared to A770

lol other than crypto crashing? Or wait the dumpster fires of AMD and Nvidia must be pretty bright. Being big dumpsters. :P

ps: I might have some screenshots if you guys need them, I know I have at least 1, I would have to dig my backups for more though.

Yep, I know most people here are probably focused on the gaming aspect of GPUs, but the productivity suite abilities of these 1st Gen ARC cards is seriously overlooked. In fact, I'd go so far as to say that I'd call it a great card for productivity-focused buyers given its price point!

@@UnderageBeerHere Well it ain't a surprise since they do review for gamers in mind first.

but my 3080 doesn't run BFV in DX12 properly either.

@@UnderageBeerHere yeah it's absurdly good for video encoding speed, I've never seen h265 encode at 800fps for a 1080p60 video

@@kwizzeh I'm not saying it's a bad thing, I know it's not LTT's focus, I'm just saying the ARC productivity performance has been flying under the radar.

They know it's that but there's no option to switch that!

I had the same issue with my very old Intel HD4000 once I connected my laptop to my TV. Upon searching online, I noticed that this bug has been there for so many Intel graphic cards and still hasn’t been properly resolved until now. I willing to bet my money that they still have the same issues on their ARC GPUs

On Arc cards that setting is only available for video. For most video limited is the proper setting. Setting it to full range actually creates the described issue, not the other way around. Desk top is already set to full range, which is proper. There is no setting for input range that affects the desktop. If there was one setting to full range, it would not change anything & setting to limited would result in blacks being crushed & bright scenes being blown out on desktop. This is how it works on intel, but at least for video limited is proper setting in most cases. Setting it to none works to as in that case it automatically selects proper setting for the video in question.