I used to main Guardian tank, but since they made the choice to have Saber Reflect OR Mad Dash/Blade Blitz as a utility choice, I made the switch to Shadow, the biggest reason is that I felt like my Guardian tank was wearing boots completely coated in lead. As much as I love Shadow, PT tanks are just insanely tanky, give them a solid amount of shield rating and they will just about laugh at most boss abilities, my Vanguard was actually able to shrug off one of NiM Nefra's regular twin attacks. For Jugg/Guardian, it should be mentioned that Saber Reflect can be used to cheese mechanics such as Dominique's purple circle to reflect it back at her, not to mention they can stack an absurd amount of damage reduction with Hord's Makashi Strike. I do agree that Shadow/Sin, PT/Vanguard are stronger tank options though, at least at the moment. Here's hoping Broadsword gives Jugg/Guardian tanks some love sometime in the near future. All this is from the POV of a healer main turned tank since my guild needed a tank at the time.
@@ivano1337 Mad dash can also function like a shroud in some instances. Meaning Juggs actually have an option between two cheese abilities compared to PT only having one. For example you can use Mad Dash to not take dot damage from Acid Pools if you're tanking Apex or Crystal projection from Calphyas on Council. And there's a lot of stuff you can cheese by reflecting on different bosses, like brontes, Dominique, Izax. Reflect also has the edge over shroud that it works on Ranged abilities too, not only force/tech damage. But in general, it does take more damage since its not good at shielding basic attacks and it lacks in movement. However it can do some fun stuff other tanks cant. For example, a jugg tank can solo tank Blaster in Master & Blaster since it can force leap to the boss for every knockback, therefore gaining knockback immunity and never eating damage from the Aoes. Sins and PTs can only cheese some of the knockbacks. So there's definetly fights where juggs are preferred, but not in Dxun or Gods.
Great tier list :) Returning after a 18 month hiatus and making a new agent. I already have an old Lethality toon but looks like Lethality or Virulence is still the way to go with that. I'm just PVE mostly solo and had considered Concealment but doesn't look like its in a good place. Anyway, thanks for the guides, they're great :D
Well this just made me want to play more different playstyles. Not really interested in hard modes, but I recently started playing FPs overall with my ruffian scoundrel (should be lethality). I now kinda want to play a sniper build and an AP Powertech as well! Definitely a well made video :)
@@ivano1337 Nice! :D Leveling will take a while so it won’t be for FPs at first anyway. And I’m still on my way to farm the 340 gear and I think I’ll finish that first before starting a new one
Love the vids, I was suggested to you by a friend. I main Rage Jug for pvp but I can do pve too. My friend says it’s the player who makes the spec. Anyway, love the vids, keep it up 👍🏻
Nice tierlist! I would've put hatred in A at least... best single target dmg in the game, and while it doesnt have good defensive dcds, it has force speed to get out of AoE and a teleport, and can usually manage adds way better than vengeance (vengeance can spread dots, but not bounce them). It saddens me to se IO in B tier, it is one of my favs... But I have to be sincere, it doesnt have almost any group utility, because its raid buff is an alacrity buff that will disrupt everyone rotation. It has good DoT spread imo, you just need an ability to spread dots from the boss in a 8m radius. Also propulsion round/rocket out is fairly hard to use right in stressful situations if you wanna go forward. I also don't really understand how balance works. I mean I get that melee needs to do more dmg to compensate worse uptime, but still, even among the melee classes, why is AP so strong while concealment and fury are thrash? They are all melee burst dmg specs, I dont get it.
Thanks! 😊 Yeah Hatred could be a bit higher maybe. IO just feels like a worse version of Viru somehow. Regarding balance idk what they are doing. AP has burst but the overall dps is still one of the lowest on dummy. Getting carried by leeching but still straight up worse than Pyro. And Fury just hasn't been the same since they removed the autocrit on Berserk.
Excellent Video Love your content. thank you so much i will be sharing this video. I would personally put AP lower because Pyro is just straight up better but probably fine in NiM content. I would personally put madness in high A or low S tier self healing and ranged.
Thanks man, appreciate it. Yeah I had AP a bit lower initially, but changed it after advice from Galli. It's all a bit subjective with those lists after all
After this last update in which Pyro suffered a nerf, is he still in tier S? In the video I didn't understand very well, but what buffs does it contribute to the party? Is it the same/better as Anni?
Yes Pyro is still S tier. Nerf was not as bad as it looked at first. Also you can run Flame Dissipation for fights where the burst is not needed. For utility you have Sonic Rebounder which gives your group a reflect. And of course taunts, which Anni does not bring. Which of the 2 is better is arguable. But both are top tier
Oh and rage should be way higher. It has both strong burst and sustained, and it offers a ton of utility (reflect, taunt, jugg DCDs). In many fights I would argue it is better than vengeance (ex. Brontes, Styrak, TFB, Apex Vanguard)
Got similar thoughts, there is no way MM is above Rage, the raw DPS difference is way too high between them. I agree that MM is better than Arsenal or Lightning though, mainly due to just being a sniper - so better utility and DCDs, easier access to AoE (suppressive fire spam whenever you need while Lightning's Force Storm is much worse, and Arsenal only has Death from Above that is wroth using). So, I would personally put Rage on top of C tier or even in the middle of B tier (heavily depends on the fight). I would also throw AP down a bit, I mean, if we are putting 2 tiers between Vengeance and Rage, it should be close to the same for Pyro and AP. Those 2 pairs are basically in the same boat when compared to each other. So AP on top of B tier, may be, it's sustained DPS even with leeching is pretty bad compared to most melee, and Pyro is just significantly better in most cases. Agree with everything else, though!
Is der blutbad maurodeur gut in pvp ? Bzw. kann ich bei dem bleiben oder muss ich auf vernichtung gehen ab 80 also allgemein jz hab gerade neu angefangen und komm aber in keine pvp Lobby weil ich erst 70 bin
Hey. Schau mal hier die Liste für PVP: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-AeGRnIgOPXU.html Grundsätzlich ist Bludbad gerade besser als Vernichtung was PVP angeht. Im PVE anders rum.
Is there any difference between rankings for 8-player versus 16-player content? And do the ops group compositions change at all between the two sizes? I'm thinking in a 16-player group you have more "space" to fit more buffs/debuffs/whatever whereas in 8-player you're probably looking more at the raw output that each player can bring since they'll be benefiting fewer other players with any buffs/debuffs. All that said, a group consisting of more good players will outperform a group consisting of fewer good players. So ultimately it doesn't really matter. But still interesting to explore & think about.
Yeah, I have a whole playlist of videos for beginners called Introduction to PVP. But many of the things in there also apply to PVE Beginenrs. You can watch it here: ru-vid.com/group/PLH98EG1ZT8I7k7uCJifT-l_20fkM6xi5F PS: What exactly do you mean with build names? Do you have an example?
@@ivano1337 I play a different heal style on my scoundrel vs on my merc I'll stand off at a distance on my merc cuz of the wandering heals allow me to. On my scoundrel I'll stand with the group to maximize heals on everyone including me. My guildies play merc so I also get the armor buff from them which helps
@@KingOmnifarious it's the mirror class to Fury Marauder, so in the same tier. You can learn more about mirror classes here: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-pYuhD7kI5pU.html
Raid content when 😎 You could have maybe put together a different list for legacies and Dxun/Gods because the design and demand of the fights are so different (and there is a step-up in difficulty). Thinking of carb here as an example - a bit pointless in legacies but real shit in the newer opses. It does feel like you can play whatever in legacies rn with the current tuning which is both "nice" and cursed at the same time as DPS checks have become laughably easy compared to early expansion days.
@@ivano1337 so basically I could copy your Darkside assassin abilities onto my shadow light side character, and they’ll work the same as what I’m getting?
Yes, 99% the same. There are some bugs and mechanics such as procs from offhand weapons that make a difference between rep and imp side, but mostly it's the same. Mirror classes explained: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-pYuhD7kI5pU.html
Carnage needs a DPS boost bad, it has so much potential. I'm a new player and from what I've seen, it got nerfed pretty bad. Shard of mortis is so restricted
the only problem with this list is it doesnt take into count the raid comp. while the melee specs are stronger in NIM raids for Gods ect you only take 1-2 melee. Ranged are kings for some of those high mobility fights. So things like virilence and madness becomes most of the players in a NIM group with the star coveted spots being the 1 mara off speced veng jug. and 1 APP.
I don't know. If you would want to compete for the fastest boss kills, seems to me you would run those S-Tier melee specs plus one Virulence/Dirty Fighting instead of 3-4 ranged. At least that's what I see from the leaderboards on parsley, most top times on Gods running Pyro, Anni, Veng or even something ridiculous like 4 Pyros on Scyva :D
I would like to know why you only did the Imperial clases and none of the Republic ones in your list, I was hoping to find out how good the Vanguard is and also which Gunslinger specs are really good, but again you only did the Imp side and completly forgot about the Pub side all together and I was wondering why you did that.
It's because the republic side is identical to the imp side, just different names and animations/weapons. For example power tech is the mirror of vanguard Jedi guardian is the mirror of juggernaut Sage vs sorcerer etc
*THIS* is why i and sooo many others don't wanna do NiM ops in swtor. Classes are *WAY* too unbalanced the the *S* tier is *ONLY* melee dps. Also Broadsword do not give a *SINGLE* shit about their players or the game. I remember a time when playing a Juggernaut ment you were a *TANK* not a dps now it outperforms several *PURE* dps classes that tells me that the developers don't give a single *SHIT* about their own game. People who bother the run NiM are less than 10% of the entire playerbase and tbh it should be the other way around. *THIS* is the reason why Swtor never was a sucess and never could complete with something like World Of Warcraft
pyro take a huge nerf and lost lot s of damage because tactics will change at 7.5 become 25% chance crit than 100% today , this nerf change lot of thing for this class
Hey, thanks for commenting 😊 do you mean the superheated fuel tactical? That was nerfed in patch 7.4, so it's already live today. The nerf sounds worse than it is to be honest. You can still use that tactical and you will be more than fine as Pyro. Or you can use Flame Dissipation for a bit more sustained dps.
SWTOR has mirror classes, so for the most part: Sentinel = Marauder, Guardian = Jugg etc. ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-pYuhD7kI5pU.html
@@ivano1337 not dummy. You can pick if you want to see where people have parsed on anything, dummy and bosses lmao. Do you not know how to use the site?
That's crazy! I had no idea 🤯 Maybe someone could analyze all that dps data, combine it with the defensive strength and raid utility of the different combat styles, then double check it with some of the best players in the game, summarize the most important points and make a video out of it lmao 🤣
interesting. I used to love Engineering Sniper/Saboteur Gunslinger. I might try that again. my favorite is Marksman though, the rotation is so smooth, but hey, you ply what is best, unless it's lethality/dirty fighting. that spec sucks to play in my opinion, I'm not having fun at all. I have the same problem with Mercenary. Arsenal is by far the most fun spec, but... Pyrotech Powertech is also fun, but I'm not into melee specs in PvE, only PvP. That said, I prefer tanking and I prefer to play Shield tech and Darkness over immortal. while Juggernaut tanks look awesome, I find them way harder to play than Assassin and PT
The good thing about the current patch is that with 344 gear you can clear almost anything with any spec. So while some have it easier than others, playing what is fun to you is also a huge factor
@@ivano1337 i do very high damage on this spec in pve, the aoe is pretty good and very easy coz all you do is spam lacerate and i easily get top parse in boss fights
Yeah for damage it's S Tier for sure, but it's still quite squishy so can be hard on healers and brings less raid utility compared to S tier specs. That's why we put it a bit lower
Your list is not wrong, however I do not really agree with the rank you give to hatred and madness, they are 2 of the classes that are currently doing considerable damage.
hatred is not that great. dead dps do zero dps. super squishy. doesn't bring anything to to team. steals roaming mend needlessly from the tank. Requires Beatdown and Assailable applied from other specs to actually function optimally. very needy not very giving. I agree Madness is literally one of the best specs to bring not because of damage but because of being ranged enabling damage uptime.
Funny how most ppl agree with this list. But in the actual rading, the groups favor having 2-3 ranged classes. Bc no matter how better the melee is, the uptime for ranged cant be matched. Fights like warhound are almost always going to require more ranged dps. And ppl seem to favor arsenal on top of IO too.
I'm always happy to change my mind but I don't see your point here. What is "the actual raiding?" What groups are you talking about? On what server? Talking about Master Mode? What is Warhound? Do you mean Watchdog? Of course, different bosses favor different classes, but the point of my list was to say: In Master Mode, for the most challenging fights, Veng, Pyro, and Anni are the best dps specs overall. Does not mean that you ONLY want to have those three in your raid, but that those are the main classes that good players are using if they tryhard for timed runs etc. Also, the only reason I can think of that anyone would be favoring Arsenal over IO is because it is more forgiving/easier to play.
@@ivano1337 I wasnt saying you were wrong. I meant that despite everyone agrees that the melee classes are better, many groups would rather go range since its easier to do mechanics. And yeah I meant watchdog idk why I typed warhound lol.
@@Paicheman ah ok, got you. For sure, there is something to be said for ease of use that makes a class good as well. Especially since with the current level of gear, you don't have to play only the S tier classes to be able to clear the content. Thanks for clarifying! PS: Warhound would be a cool name though 😎
I disagree with this largely. It is usually good to have 1-2 ranged DPS, but oftentimes ranged specs suffer due to having to cancel casts to move for mechanics whereas melee specs don't have to worry about channeling
Annihilation is not that good jesus. There are some classes lranked under it that are better in both damage profile and utility by almost multiple tiers. Like madness and IO are up a tier for sure and Annihilation and AP PT should both drop a tier. Madness is basically annihilation but better in every single way. Same benefits just even stronger.
I might be wrong and happy to be corrected but statistically, from what Ive seen in the parsley leaderboards, Anni is doing more dps on Gods, Dxun MM etc. compared to Madness and IO. Not sure about utility "better by a tier" either. They all have raid buffs but I think the extra hps from Anni would be very useful on hard bosses. How are Madness/IO better?
no no i am a Madness main but Annihilation is way better. they have a dot spread that is near infinite. not as good as vengeance but better than madness. PLUS they apply assailable. (all dot classes do 7% more damage) without sacrificing aoe (balance must sacrifice aoe and take a dps loss)
one more thing to consider. Annihilation applies Beatdown AND assailable and heals frame and has the best raid buff in the game and predation for those super necessary raid wide movements if you think annihilation is "not that good" It is out of lack of understanding of the spec. IO is super good but players don't know how to actually play it. very few play it because garbage arsenal is so insanely easy. Madness see above what i already said about madness. excellent choice to bring to a raid.
