can't help but imagine how boring it must be for Glenn and John. the insanity is so endemic, so entrenched that they have to speak the same sense on the same topics over and over.
Just makes me respect them and have gratitude towards them even more. My young lad was called a 'Filthy white *****' today at school. My cousin had it daily for years at school. I'd hoped we'd moved beyond that sort if stuff. I should've known better.
I don't know why people don't acknowledge that crack is a lot more concentrated and potent than cocaine. Coke is a party drug. Crack makes people loose their shit.
Brilliant conversation by both men. They integrate counter points of view with their own without being condescending and acknowledging they might have some blind spots here and there. This sort of discourse is going to move our society forward.
@@puckloki873 exactly. This is true of everything today. Perfect example is the Jordan Peterson a books. It’s all basic life lessons everyone should be taught at home.
Very hard not to be condescending. As the people who push it are either ignorant of reality (so their ideas aren’t worth engaging) or are acting maliciously (so their ideas aren’t worth engaging.
Well put. It's why I appreciate listening to scholars. It's how they are trained in avoiding cognitive bias - to look at the entire issue and find ideas data best supports.
They have to simplify and use critical thought because you got a group of woke folks over thinking and not understanding only reacting by blaming unconsciously. Then you got race baiters taking advantage of them in order to sell books or gain access to tv programs.
This discussion is very helpful for those of us who are trying to cut through the forest of therapeutic alienation and woke signaling so that we can arrive at policies and practices that are likely to benefit the next generation of African Americans.
Just wanted to wish you both the Happiest of Thanksgiving's. You're both national treasures of wisdom & insight. I always look forward to hearing your perspectives whether together or outside of this channel. Cheers!
He doesn't get many "mainstream" interviews because the people wanting to do the interviews want a narrative _advanced,_ not debunked, and he's not gonna play that game. Too bad, too, because his nutshell position where it concerns the political establishment and their role in structural racism is "a pox on both their houses."
Thank both of you guys for being so open and honest. I’ve been dealing with my own prejudice and ignorance and these conversations help enlighten me and widen my perspective.
@@HelloThisIsAnon hahahaha, yeah, I went to grad school for applied math and some of the technical language did seep into my everyday language, but Loury has gone all in!
White guy here. In reading the comments, it has become clear to me that we (Americans) are STARVED for rational discourse like this. These two should be public figures.
Two gentlemen I love to listen to. Thanks for an awesome program...I'm a former cat on the Providence jazz scene, Glen! Wish I could hang and argue about jazz with you man! If you ever get the chance to see a bassist named Dave Zinno (a Portsmouth local, and brown professor of bass), take it. Best to both of you!
I don't think Simone is using logic. Prejudice and hate are about emotion. If Simone was thinking logically, she wouldn't be trying to demonize people who would otherwise be allies. She is targeting the wrong people as enemies. Most "white" people have no more power to change the system than she does alone. Poor white people are also victimized by the system as "white trash". The system sets us up to hate and fight each other instead of uniting to demand our fair share of the resources from those who truly do have power. "The people, united, will never be defeated." ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-i86W93OPP2U.html
@J.A. Bristol IMO it kinda is? but repeating it over and over and over doesnt help anyone... yes there is some injustice in this world, probably based on historical circumstance. the world also has gotten, overall, a lot better than it used be, say, 100 years ago. I think, and I know its pretty irrelevant what I think in the grand scheme of things but this is the internet so here we are... I think we should try to remove barriers and systemicaly try to increase socioeconomic mobility ie help poor people. Helping poor people will eventually help every historicaly disenfranchised group without sowing division along racial lines IMO.
@J.A. Bristol Im a leftist, Id consider myself a social democrat or something along those lines ;) I dont want total reliance on the goverment, but I feel like theres a lot of people that need help which we, as a society, can afford to give them. Look at some western social democracies. It can work at least to a certain extent.
@J.A. Bristol how many people represent this demographic? I believe we take isolated episodes and make blanket statements about the rest of society. With that being said, if you have a problem "making it" in America. It's mostly you and your failure to recognize that
@J.A. Bristol It isn’t, but there are other issues. In particular, Black people are persistently disadvantaged in ways that are neither built into the system itself nor rooted in the behavior, mindset, or situation of Black people. That’s systemic racism, and it’s not simple.
Thank you both for doing what you do. It's a vital injection of sense and open-minded reasoning that the world desperately needs. Over time, you've modelled healthy, consonant disagreement through the Glenn Show in a way that has become increasingly difficult to replicate. At the end of the day, you two seem to be some of the most humane public voices out there, timbred by valuable, sometimes even bitter experience. It feels odd to write it down, since you'd expect it to be more commonly fitting, but I find "humane" to be the right word to point out here.
You two have helped me so much. I wake up every day to a world that seems more and more out of control, full of hate and crazy. It helps to see honest and decent men talking reason. Thank you-get some rest and time with your families but please don’t stop.
i too was around then. i knew people involved in both versions. the way they were used was vastly different. not only where they were taken but also how addictive they were. crack destroyed families and individuals who tried it. people looked 20 years older in just 6 months. there were many people who did coke and totally functioned and never looked as though they were severely ill. once addicted, people basically invaded the nearby apartment complex. people coming home would have to walk their children around a group of people shooting up in the hallway to the building. the addicts did not even live there. we also had AIDS appearing in the same time period. it was not a good picture. putting people in jail was the wrong response. the legal system was the wrong venue.
wealth gap...shmelth gap...... "median" isn't the only average.....look at "MODE average age" and you'll find for whites its 58 years old. 58 years is more than double that of racial and ethnic minorities. one might assume that wealth is accumulated over a lifetime. the dishonesty is just so rampant. Compare income NOT wealth. Compare "per capita" income of people with similar college degree and age and sex and then tell me if there is an actionable problem or not. Until then.......its all sophistry. the reason you don't look at wealth is that it hides the problem ......if per capita examination produces results that show income is similar....than personal choices is causing the wealth gap.
I am very grateful for your conversations and your personal perspectives (39:00 -43:00 mark). You guys make me think and I appreciate you. I would love to see this conversation continue adding Thomas Sowell, Coleman Hughes, Michael Fortner and Larry Elder (to name a few). It would be a literal brain-gasm.
Jordan Peterson is not wrong about everything. I love you guys but you have more than once intimated there is something pretty bad about him. What significant idea is he wrong about?
I would LOVE the privilege and honor of joining Glenn and friends for cigars, whiskey, and jazz night! I have a serious enough collection of jazz vinyl and CDs that I’d pull my weight, promise!
I've seen at least 10 different videos pop into my recommended queue, and they're all podcasts/interviews with John on his book. I cannot imagine how many hours all those discussions have taken, and I'm sure I'm only seeing the tip of the iceberg.
Solutions. We're all dying for solutions. Simone doesnt matter. Future actions and advice is what matters. Real, legal, productive solutions are what we want.
This is how HUMBLE Mr. Lowry is: @15:40 he rattles of a few names of Blacks who made profound impacts on history; uhhh, let us not forget you, Sir, being the 1ST of Harvard!!
Heard an interview ( through RU-vid ) about the book with, PBS perhaps, and I think John had great accessible answers for the Woke aligned to have a think about.
Let this be your last extended conversation about this crafted social dilemma, not that it doesn't deserve more consideration. Your remarks and analysis in the tone you've rendered them suggest that this is - for what it's worth - complete. Prof McWhorter I agree that their ideas and ways of thinking are shrouded in hopelessness. To the layman, a middle aged college educated Black professional bemoaning the perils of societal problems from decades ago is simply limited in scope considering the possibilities an American citizen can materialize in this country (and abroad). Your conversations are helping me to rearticulate my understanding of what it means to be black in the 21st century. If Simone has any seriousness about these matters - which she doesn't - then her energy would largely be focused on studying and organizing a practical means of living for all Blacks. I will say plainly what you both have hinted at over the past few months: identity and self-awareness play such a critical role in a person's development and their ability to lead a stable and fulfilling life. This transcends race, as you stated Prof. Lourey, in your sidenote about the utility of universal themes in world literature. As boomers slowly begin to transfer wealth to millennials over the next couple decades it will be insightful to see how Simone and her ilk's perspectives and world view evolve, if at all.
I usually side with you Glenn, however when the linguist says break it down into small words to basically keep people honest. You have to admit, John hit it out of the park.
Systemic racism is like corporate-sponsored obesity. Yes, there are institutions, traditions, people who profit literally and figuratively from keeping certain ethnic groups down/making you obese. Yes, these systemic things should be addressed in public policy. But ultimately, you bear 50% of the responsibility for improving yourself. Reparations and bariatric surgery ain't enough. Self-responsibility and living for something bigger than your own gain and immediate pleasure are essential.
I am a black septuagenarian that was born and raised in a major midwestern city where redlining happened. But even with that, I had multiple relatives as well as a few acquaintances that owned homes in the 50's and 60's. Out of this group at least two of these homeowners also owned businesses. Because of this situation I came away with the impression that redlining did not forestall black home ownership but rather restricted that benefit to certain areas. I consider redlining a moot topic depending on a persons view point. I have doubts as to whether redlining had some outsized detrimental effect on wealth building among black Americans. Moreover. in this city in which I lived their were areas populated by Germans next door to a separate Polish community next to a separate Italian community and so forth. For what its worth, white people were segregating themselves, it seemed to me!
First of all, long term care usually eats into most of what parents would otherwise leave to their children. And if you have several kids, whatever they get from the estate won’t make or break them financially. Do most blacks have visions of white children inheriting millions from their parents from the sale of a home, lol? Maybe “ money management” should be discussed more?
I respect you both, I respect that you acknowledge that you are better off than some of your people of colour. I also respect that you don’t define people by their skin colour. In the world we live in that would be a big mistake. I am a UK national White man who is dying two ways. Tell me my privilege and I will tell you yours. That is not a deliberate rise to either of you, as you don’t deserve it. When I’ve done a video on my own white privilege and asked where it is so I can get some of it now. People are more interested in racial economy, then they are in human lives. How sad is that?
Arguments that highlight systemic racism would have more moral success if they weren't so divorced from the broader umbrella of 'systemic discrimination' or whatever term you want to use to acknowledge the multiple variables in play including social/economic class, employment, family structure and so many others. Unfortunately, it has become so seductive to focus on race as a uni-variable "silver bullet" answer to explain every disparity in large part because the argument is fully backed up with the simplistic but powerful threat of responding to argument by being designated a "racist" - and we know how quickly and effectively that hammer can be used.
The word "dignity" is the key word if one finds themselves feeling unfairly disadvantaged in life. All of those obstacles whether real, imagined, or exaggerated, can be overcome over time with a little dignity and perseverance. Dignity is the precursor to respect.
I believe the Crack cocaine incident had more to do about money. It was more accessible vs the other. Which means more poor people can obtain it. Our leaders hated when they can't tax things so they focused on Crack. That's my assignment on it.
Social cognition is an important attribute that all should endeavor to develop. As they use to say back in the 60's, "free your mind and your ass will follow". Freeing ones mind begins with an uncoerced introspection on how social forces shape our belief system, often without a personal awareness of the how, when or why. Social cognition begins with an objective interpretations of why we believe what we believe. That process will never be personal, introspective or objective if someone else is dictating to you the how, when and why. That is my beef with CRT. It's just one hegemonic power structure being replaced by another.
Also, there will always be a gap between any arbitrarily selected groupings of people for any statistic imaginable. The existence of such gaps doesn't mean that those gaps arose from discrimination. This is an important point brought up by Thomas Sowell that should be kept in mind at each stage of analysis.
The problem is we KNOW that race discrimination against the Black descendants of American Slavery is one of the core features of the U.S. American system!
@@willharriman1881 who is we? I don't knwo that....wealth gap...shmelth gap...... "median" isn't the only average.....look at "MODE average age" and you'll find for whites its 58 years old. 58 years old is more than double that of racial and ethnic minorities. one might assume that wealth is accumulated over a lifetime and older people have more. the dishonesty is just so rampant. Compare income NOT wealth. Compare "per capita" income of people with similar college degrees and age, and sex and then tell me if there is an actionable problem or not. Until then.......its all sophistry. the reason you don't look at wealth is that it hides the problem ......if per capita examination produces results that show income is similar....than personal choices is causing the wealth gap.
@@jamesmurphy5315 You wrote a bunch of useless double talk! You can't solve the problem of historical continuing white racism in America by pretending it away! No one claims that white racism is the only factor causing racial disparity. But it's a big part of the continuing picture! Don't be fooled just because most white racism is now a COVERT practice!
@@EvsEntps Get it through your head! Continuous white racist wrongdoings against Black Americans is part of the picture and you can't pretend that away! Don't sit there making up LYING nonsense claiming that all the problems of Black Americans are self created!
The ability to listen is a skill, possible a talent, and to some degree tribal. Some people have plenty of cognitive ability to understand many things. But few people can listen from a point that may be outside of their own life. If you look up the concept of first information as it concerns memory you'll get into some fascinating psychology of why some concepts are so hard either to give up or adjust. When people are taught certain bad theory's to well that information will always have more weight and can be difficult to remove or be displaced. These things are being reenforced in many course and over time. This is the real ethics the real Teacher student responsibility. Reverends and pastors and religions have a purpose to their devotion and the way in which they teach those teachings. . .. While in any other area Teachers have a responsibility to their students to teach subjects in a manner that 1, lets them become familiarized with the basics and the concepts of any given field while 2. not over burdening them with any personal or subjective takes on that subject that are known to be contentious and or as of yet still argued as to it being fact or still just theory as it concerns the subject . example .. This is the established Cannon .. but here is my own belief about said Cannon . i
I love the way John tries to use the most stereotypical white names he can think of when he comes up with these scenarios whilst seemingly being unaware that he possesses, possibly one of the most stereotypical white names (at least in England) in the history of white people.
One thing I find frustrating is that when people like you make comments very specific to a conversation, they don't put the time stamp where it can be found, nor do they mention any details such as the name that you are ostensibly referring to.
@@virtualpilgrim8645 long time listeners to McWhorter will know what I’m talking about but since you can’t be bothered to look for the, admittedly, single time he does it on this discussion its: Ethan at 32:38 You’re welcome.
I look deeply into myself and try to understand that I lack of awareness of many different perspectives and areas of knowledge. You guys are the type of people who inspire me.
I appreciate you 2 gentleman’s discourse and exchange of thought so much. This can materially improve the conditions of our community if we collectively look inward and move different as a result
Very interesting conversation here. I’d like to focus on the point which was made by Loury around the 48min mark where he advocates for the CRT counter argument to superficial gains. This is the crux of the matter isn’t it. The looting from the historical subclasses has in fact created the disparities we see today. Unfortunately, the heist was so large and incomprehensible that there is no reparational process to remedy it. Therefore no choice but for us to be pragmatic and practical about moving forward.
I walked up to a white man I worked hard for. Then I said, I know whats happing?! Nothing from him. Then I said, I am woke to this bull shydt?! Now he wants to talk...Hahahaha?!
John …I bought the audiobook, I’m glad to hear your voice on it…..I can feel your meaning as you speak….I can tell you my antennas went after taking notice the way people were buzzing with race rhetoric they began using trending words that through me into confusion,after watching a bad faith episode I was able to point out some elect bastard …I usually listen to books and go to the next , this book has been on repeat 3 times…so far…thanks for your perspective…
Let’s see Shelby Steele, Walter Williams, Thomas Sowell, Neil Degrasse Tyson,, and the both of you - answer me this, why are your accomplishments and life stories not highlighted almost every day?
I'm sure no one will see my comment given the age of this video, but I think it's a mistake to treat the phrase "structural racism" as synonymous with "systemic racism." "Structural racism" implies, or implied, specific laws, policies, attitudes, etc that were based in racist or essentialist beliefs, or intermediate effects of such laws, policies, attitudes, etc. It's a reductive view that looks for specific cause-and-effect chains, even if the logic is inductive. "Systemic racism" does not assume any specific intermediate cause nor even, necessarily, an instigating philosophy. Unequal outcomes are not indicative of racism, unequal outcomes *are* racism (systemic racism). There is no effort to diagnose, only to label and then to hurl invective. You see inequality and think to look for intermediate or primary causes? You are insufficiently antiracist, which means you are racist. Genuine disagreement about the concept of "systemic racism" is not a disagreement about the extent to which black Americans are harmed by the legacy of slavery, Jim Crow, redlining, the Tulsa race massacre, or anything else. Such disagreements are about the very fundamental assumption of what words like "racism" mean. "Systemic racism" is a concept that was created explicitly, not to describe, but to DO: specifically to do the work of bringing about "liberation," which is synonymous with Marxist revolution.
Always such thoughtful conversation. I think the problem is the language used in labeling such things as “systemic racism” is in itself a bit hyperbolic & many persons do not handle nuance or for that matter investigate/contemplate issues. It’s a sound byte/ meme culture which by its very nature doesn’t allow for nuance. Without really looking at “ inequities” closely and all surrounding it means no solutions can be found. Round & round to nowhere. It’s a shame … it’s regressive … it’s about complaint/grievance not solutions and success
Owning a house is not a good way to build wealth. Apartments are cheaper. Equities (stocks) increase in value far more rapidly. Being redlined in the past explains lack of wealth today? I don't buy it.
Never actually realized how different the book promotion world has really become. That sounds absolutely exhausting. I believe a hundred hour long interviews after writing a book would have to make anyone a bit weary of the subject matter
A shadow of fatigue slants across this one. My impression is, this vein has been mined to exhaustion. These intelligent and learned gentlemen have said all they have to say on the subject. They are now reduced to a sort of pointless equivocation-----there is some truth to this, but there is also some truth to that. I know, this is "the beat" the customers want to hear covered, so I don't know what else to say.
Perhaps it goes without saying, but these discussions should be prefaced by 'in the United States'. Globally there are all kinds of additional debates. If black lives matter, they should matter as much in the coltan mines of Congo as on the streets of Los Angeles.
@56:48 I'd totally agree with John. There's obviously always more you gentlemen could have covered on such a broad subject line, but John is right; you guys covered a lot! It was thoroughly enlightening!
