How Anti-Racism Is Hurting Black America | John McWhorter | EP 241

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This episode was recorded on September 27th, 2021.
Dr Jordan B Peterson and John McWhorter exchange ideas on the field of linguistics, how language affects our worldview, music, children’s capacity to learn languages, race problems in the US, virtue signaling, wokeism, Chomsky’s universal grammar, and more.
John Mcwhorter is an associate professor of English and comparative literature at Columbia University. Professor McWhorter is an author of more than a dozen books including ‘The Power of Babel: A Natural History of Language,’ ‘Losing the Race: Self Sabotage in Black America’ and ‘Our Magnificent Bastard Tongue: The Untold History of English.’ He’s also a regular contributor to publications like The New Republic and The Atlantic.
Follow John McWhorter: / johnhmcwhorter
Check out his new book: amazon.com/Woke-Racism-Religi...
And his article ‘The Dehumanizing Condescension of White Fragility:’
theatlantic.com/ideas/archive...
___________
Chapters
___________
[0:00] Intro
[1:30] Linguistics Overview
[3:30] Language Acquisition in Children
[11:00] Language & Worldview
[16:00] Division, People, & Culture
[17:00] On Music
[19:10] “Music is often regarded as a nonrepresentational art form” - John McWhorter
[26:00] The Nature of American Studies
[28:30] Outline of McWhorter's Career
[32:00] Race in America I
[35:45] John’s New Book On Woke Racism
[45:30] Musical Theater, Reality, & Religion
[52:00] Wokeism & Postmodernism
[57:00] Woke Upbringing
[1:00:45] Race in America II
[1:03:30] Virtue Signaling
[1:09:45] “Are All White People Racist?”
[1:15:00] Outro
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#Linguistics #Race #Chomsky #UniversalGrammar #Wokeism #JohnMcWhorter #JordanPeterson #JordanBPeterson #DrJordanPeterson #DrJordanBPeterson #DailyWirePlus #podcast

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29 июн 2024

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Комментарии : 5 тыс.

@thermalreboot 2 года назад

As a motorcycle rider, we are taught that where we look is where we will go. If we look at the ditch, we'll end up in the ditch, if we look at the car crossing our path we'll ending colliding with the car crossing our path. If we want to stay out of danger we look where we want to go, instead of the ditch we look as far ahead up the road as we can. Instead of looking at the car crossing our path, we look at the opening the car is leaving us to move around the car. If you look at oppression rather than the ways around oppression, you'll be oppressed.

@zairmorningstarmusic 2 года назад

damn

@thefool5460 2 года назад

That is a very nice way of putting that without too many words.

@BluesGirlBabe 2 года назад

Great analogy !

@kerrythompson9506 2 года назад

Yeah, here in Utah it's the First Law of Mountain Biking: if you look at the rock in the trail, you WILL run over it.

@jrstf 2 года назад

I remember reading a request from joggers to drivers, please don't look at us as you drive by.

@CosmicLeoSpirit 2 года назад

John McWhorter is an incredible thinker. As an African American teacher that teaches in a mostly black middle school, I am frustrated to see my students look for racism in places where it doesn’t even exist. It’s not to say that racism doesn’t exist and that our experiences aren’t valid, but looking for potentially racist encounters is anti-intellectual toward the actual cause. They have argued that not being allowed to have a phone during class is racist, or that not being allowed to talk during a test is racist. For some, being atheist is being anti-black. I wish they were joking because the backlash is real. They begin to internalize victimization, and then they stop putting effort into self improvement. Suspending belief is the death of critical thinking. Great interview!

@IUsedToBeANiceGuy 2 года назад

WOW awesome comment. Very well said

@CosmicLeoSpirit 2 года назад

@@IUsedToBeANiceGuy Thank you! I appreciate it!

@bladem.d6029 2 года назад

Just curious, do they call homework racist? Grades racist? How far is achievement being pushed as something ‘racist’?

@CosmicLeoSpirit 2 года назад

@@jasoncharles8651 It's more complicated than a teacher "teaching what racism is." I teach it objectively as discrimination against someone based on ethnicity or racial group. It is not the sole job of teachers to teach what racism is, especially since it is not part of most curricula. It is also the job of parents and communities. Blaming me or my administration when we only see each student 90 minutes at a time is not conductive to the conversation. I can only explain so much if the student (child or adult, black or white) refuses to be open minded. Much of what a child brings to the classroom mirror their parents' ideologies.

@CosmicLeoSpirit 2 года назад

@@bladem.d6029 Fortunately, most of them do not. The good news is that many of those that initially did make that argument did so in September. I have not heard that argument from them now in May. They can be influenced and persuaded to work hard and see homework as practice.

@kendinatl Год назад

This is the best interview I've seen anyone conduct with John McWhorter. Jordan showed a real interest in understanding McWhorter and shared enough of an academic interest in some rather esoteric topics. Truly enjoyable conversation.

@tonywilliams49 Год назад

Jordan filled the conversation with fluff terrible interview.

@spencerantoniomarlen-starr3069 Год назад

@@tonywilliams49 let me fix that for you. "Huh, interesting, let's agree to disagree."

@watchman4todayreloaded192 Год назад

@dooflotchy I agree with you completely. It was a fascinating dialogue.

@robbin-wt8kr Год назад

Jordon really tried to reach but this guy is stuck in the Twilight Zone.

@joelosminski4525 Год назад

I could have listened to them talk for hours. Great interview

@Rockers1121 Год назад

One of the things that I absolutely love about Jordan is that it's very important for him to make sure that he doesn't misinterpret people. I've seen him make it a point to make sure his guests have what they are trying to explain, explained. He always lets them know to interject if he has something wrong. He really is a great interviewer and I wish more interviewers would practice this very thing that Jordan does. It's great.

@wesleygary6651 Год назад

i agree . I've noticed that too--i look for it in every interview and never get tired of it driving interviewers quickly insane! 'Wait, i can't bait or lable or mock or dismiss you'? 'You can't do this'! 'Don't you know why you are here'? I love it. 😄

@wesleygary6651 Год назад

label

@robbin-wt8kr Год назад

Jordan is so compassionate. The man is so clueless that I probably would have lost my patience, got up, and walked away.

@MaxMalevich 11 месяцев назад

Dr. Peterson is rather sweet when he speaks with people.

@chadjohnson-authormusician8072 11 месяцев назад

@@robbin-wt8kr The man is clueless? He seems quite well-educated and extremely well-spoken to me. I'm curious to know why you think he's clueless.

@Tobuscus 2 года назад

Discovering Jordan Peterson is like finding a legendary two-handed shield that can also be used as a sword

@islander376 2 года назад

Tobuscus?

@Matheus-jv1ft 2 года назад

Hell yeah Toby

@PAKallman 2 года назад

Zelda fan?

@PAKallman 2 года назад

@Mr. Bond lol Dawkins is a kook.

@PAKallman 2 года назад

@Mr. Bond and Harris is a spoiled brat who's mad at his parents lmao

@stevenw2933 2 года назад

John McWhorter and his frequent partner Glen Loury are some of the most underrated academics and public intellectuals in Western discourse today. These are not just black issues, they speak to all peoples, all creeds and the fact that their voices and Dr. Peterson's are somehow seen as a out of left field, heterodox views is an indictment of Western media, politics and culture.

@ForeverYoungKickboxer 2 года назад

Egg Zachary

@michaeljackson8390 2 года назад

❣️

@galaxytrio 2 года назад

Quite.

@brennancarter7721 2 года назад

Agreed

@NoofGoof 2 года назад

Well said. Gotta love those guys. Loury is a giant.

@kendisarcher5807 Год назад

This dialogue is literally pure genius! This is a free session of master works.

@Ariel-ck9he Год назад

Blew my mind to hear Dr. McWhorter describe my own experience with musical theatre and how it literally feels like church. Beautiful moment in this conversation.

@apples874 Год назад

Are you a woman?

@ktwashere5637 Год назад

I am deeply suspicious of people who don't like musical theatre. Its the best.

@bowmanencore 2 года назад

Two intelligent, articulate people having a conversation is a delight.

@anneother6224 2 года назад

It is also potentially an "unlimited resource", or is it?

@Zorrr 2 года назад

@@anneother6224 If that were the case such conversations would be useless

@anneother6224 2 года назад

@@Zorrr and being without utility would be considered a futility? I can see that there isn't an endless supply of intelligent articulate people but I've never thought that was the limiting factor.

@Zorrr 2 года назад

@@anneother6224 I’d say the willingness to do so is the limiting factor, however you could also say people who aren’t willing to have such conversations in the first place aren’t considered articulate 😛

@anneother6224 2 года назад

@@Zorrr I'd agree to that.

@anadverb5063 2 года назад

Simply outstanding. Intelligent, informative, non-combative long-form media is such a rarity. What’s even more rare is when it’s done right: both “sides” simply seeking to understand. It’s why the mainstream goes after Dr. Peterson with such zeal. God forbid we begin critically evaluating the culture.

@brookealiasemeraldfox8192 2 года назад

Exactly! Ugh

@lilalicata616 2 года назад

Exactly! They come after Dr. Peterson, but they also don’t want John McWhorter’s message out there either! They coming hard against these 2 men trying to silence them. Very, very interesting conversation gentlemen!!!! 🥂🥂🥂🥂

@jonpecker9145 2 года назад

you're joking right?

@zjedinite 2 года назад

Your Former observation is the way we should ALL treat discussion. With respect and the will to understand someone else’s point. Now here comes the backhand slap. Why vilify “the mainstream media” for not taking Mr. Peterson‘s positions valid. This is not the way to achieve such “non-combative” conversations. Some people can just close up to any debate when they hear an attack on what they believe is to be true. I mean if you have watched Jordan Peterson speak he touches on this point.

@zjedinite 2 года назад

@@mikearchibald744 vilification NO, criticism YES. The “mainstream media” has always cherry picked stories and does have the power to make or break someone’s career, by mentioning cherry picking. But at the end of the day they report actual facts, unlike the now “far right NEWS lol” outlets. They just plain and simple contort the facts. Regarding your second observation, perhaps you misinterpreted who I was making my comment towards. You are correct that Mr. Peterson did not bring up the mainstream media, hence my point on my last sentence. That comment was directed to the person on which thread we are in.

@regulardude2011 Год назад

Im truly amazed how articulate these gentlemen are! Makes me want to pick up a book and start reading so i could expand my vocabulary and be able to express myself better

@Patrick-gf5xg Год назад

Go for it!

@fsff2070 Год назад

Do it. There has never been a better time than now. There is a major attack on language as well. One of the reasons why we are where we are is the low verbal intelligence...it is why everyone just accepts everything...

@auntihooha Год назад

Yes--read a LOT of books!

@esterwyman 10 месяцев назад

It will depend on the books 📚 you choose 🤷‍♀️

@runoz2839 3 месяца назад

peterson TRYING to be... 🙄🤨🤦

@ceruchi2084 2 года назад

I am so relieved to see these men talk, two of my favorite public intellectuals who are truly on the same side of the current "culture war," despite their apparent political differences. They are both role models for me on how to speak, to think, to dare to be wise.

@Mr-Neven Год назад

Recently running into McWhorter, the first thing I searched for was a conversation between these two. Gold.

@ChickVicious237 2 года назад

Every other week I listen to the Glenn Show with John McWhorter and read as many of his books I can get ahold of, and I often found myself hoping he would have a conversation with Dr. Peterson. Because of the exchange at the Aspen Festival a few years ago I didn't think it would happen, but here we are. So thrilled to experience this!

@TheShootist 2 года назад

Jordan has also mentioned he and Glenn have had a conversation. I await with baited breath, Jordan B Peterson and Lex Fridman.

@nathanaelmorales760 2 года назад

What happened at the aspen festival

@roberthodgins6584 2 года назад

I just made a similar comment lol then ran across yours.

@roberthodgins6584 2 года назад

@@nathanaelmorales760 McWhorter challenged JBP, more or less, on how his training lets him identify inauthentic woke types. E.g… certain pronoun users.

@ChickVicious237 2 года назад

@@nathanaelmorales760 JP was a speaker and John was an audience member, this was during the height of the compelled speech political push and John questioned JP about where he draws the line (as a clinical psychologist) when choosing whether or not to honor a student's preferred pronouns (versus allowing a student to force a professor to change their language as a pure power move). It was an excellent question that Jordan had some difficulty answering to John's satisfaction, but everyone was respectful. After that, John discussed the exchange briefly on the Glenn Show and said he didn't know what to make of him just yet. Both of those clips can be found on YT, I recommend them both

@joshuac1364 2 года назад

The world is much better with men like this participating in the exchange of ideas. You can see a lot of mutual respect. Its clear they're both highly intelligent and educated yet still gained from this very short conversation. I don't know if we really understand how lucky we are to have free access to this kind of discourse.

@theminister1154 2 года назад

I don't share John's politics, but he's still one of my heroes. And I don't have many heroes. For example I respect Dr. Peterson quite a bit, but he doesn't make the cut.

@Oak__ 2 года назад

I would disagree with the “highly intelligent”, John has TDS. He’s delusional outside of linguistics.

@marthabromberg6274 2 года назад

Wonderful conversation. It was my sincere pleasure to listen. Thanks to both of these men!

@budslack3729 2 года назад

We are very lucky to have free access to this kind of discourse, but it’s a complete shame that we are, it speaks volumes about where we’ve gone as people

@wardropper 2 года назад

@@theminister1154 I feel Peterson always 'makes the cut', but of course his field of expertise is not the entire cosmos. He always provides food for thought, even when he admits he's not in his preferred element.

@siegfriedbraun5447 Год назад

Never have I ever felt the need to listen to ANY podcast a second time, right away! This was just too good; the cautious optimism in this conversation has given me more hope and more joy, than anything I've heard in YEARS!!

@babiesdontgoclang 2 года назад

Thought-provoking. I appreciate being able to witness this conversation between intellectuals

@ItsTheNada 2 года назад

I can’t agree with this conversation more. As a 40 something black man, even though I grew up experiencing racism from some, not all, racism was not my “experience”. It was something I experienced. When it happened, it was a terrible feeling and yes, it frustrated my progress at times. I was taught to push through it and have become successful thanks to strong parents, family and the like. Things have gotten better since then. These days most of the times I even think about racism is when someone wants to talk to me about it… which I honestly don’t enjoy. I’ve got better things to think about. Does racism exist? Absolutely. Is it a part of or at the forefront of my everyday life? Absolutely not. Maybe people are looking at me thinking racist thoughts and I’m oblivious to it lol, but things have gotten better. Better to the point that I can feel the difference as compared to my younger years. Here’s the thing. America has gotten better for all classes of people. But the more we ring the bell of special interest and the more we retreat into our separate groups, the more we risk the phenomenon of self segregation and a return to the days of looking across the field at one another with suspicion, fear and hatred… because we no longer live with and talk to one another. This will make racism return to its former un-glory. And I don’t like that.

@BlackPartyFilms Год назад

Strong family and parents, I’m happy you acknowledge that. Many successful black people forget that they had a solid support system as a foundation and magically leave the fact out of their conversations. Especially when they separate themselves from less fortunate black people without guidance.

@Orlin_does_stuff Год назад

I'm glad you chose the path of persistence and not the path of surrender.

@kfkstuart Год назад

So what you are a saying as a black man. Now things are equal for black people? If not how has it changed when people are still getting lynched. I am listening.

@ItsTheNada Год назад

@@kfkstuart I don’t take responses seriously when they start with “so what you’re saying…”. What exactly is it that you are trying to discuss?

@kfkstuart Год назад

@@BlackPartyFilms exactly

@melhartsings 2 года назад

I like that JP doesn’t only talk about current events with his guests, but gets them talking about deeper things like music, art, beauty!! love you JP!!

@Hannestv4607 2 года назад

***True love = the love of God!*** God himself went to the cross for you out of love for you as a human being Philippians 2:5-8

@cdrtej 2 года назад

🥉

@ArunAbrahamKY Год назад

He lets them talk about what they are experts in doesn't try stump them and he doesnt out shine them. He asks them questions he honestly is not sure about. He a great interviewer.

@DP-fo4cm 2 года назад

I can’t believe I was enrolled in his class last semester. Such an incredible professor and he’s on a podcast with my favorite human being in the world… JP!!!

@Theobald_Phillips Год назад

For me, living in Russia, that is soaking in all the woke agenda right now. It is so invigorating to hear that there are still some sane men in US. I lost my most beloved person this year. He switched into she, but it didn't solve his problem and It killed itself. You're the gentlemen who fight for ones like me among others. Thank you.

@judah_levi Год назад

So sorry to hear that, my thoughts are with you😊

@ussarng4649 Год назад

So sorry to hear about your friends tragedy. Some people say time heals all sorrows. That's not so. The pain is always there. However time allow us to come to terms with our grief, so we can go on living. Peace and long life.

@donttouchyerbumnsniffit Год назад

@@ussarng4649 Very true. And it's necessary to take time to grieve because trying to move on too quickly or suppress that grief makes you resent yourself later down the line for not giving yourself enough time to appreciate what that person meant to you. And it catches up with you eventually. My grandad took his own life about 7 years ago. Unlike most in my family I accepted it fairly quickly but I tried to move on from it quicker than I could and it ended up with me later drinking and trying to forget and that's the worst thing you can do is to try and forget because you'll never forget someone so close to you. So if you take the time to remember that person for who they were and appreciate all the good days you had together it does help to heal the emotional wounds. The scars will always be there but I think it's appropriate and necessary to grieve. That's not weakness, that's strength to face that grief ✌🏼

@joanbalasa4207 Год назад

So sorry for you. Wokism is a lie. Though it won't bring back your friend i encourage you to read the Bible and start with the book of Romans. We have replaced truth with a lie. I desire for you to know the truth. May God show you his abundant love and grace and give you comfort and hope.

@paradigm_conjecture Год назад

That is tragic. I am sorry for your loss. A lot of people are normal in the west. We are just not heard.

@kalel0192 2 года назад

I've never seen such a great conversation, two men who are so in sync. They're genuinely smart, articulate, unpretentious, and just want to learn and have a good conversation.

@kevinmcpartland2076 2 года назад

As a fan of both I must say this is Jordan Peterson at his finest. The interview was not only informative but Jordan displayed his skills as a psychologist to go much deeper in exploration of John McWhorter‘s thoughts. The interview seemed as much of a therapy session as an interview which is supremely interesting and informative.

@alvareo92 2 года назад

AND John was quick and articulate to illustrate his thoughts and opinions without Jordan interrupting him. And when he interjected it was because he was curious to know his opinion and wanted to know more, instead of just wanting to talk about something

@MrGflan 2 года назад

You should see his Theo Von podcast. Peterson provided amazing therapy. It was amazing and I think Theo was using him for that, not in an evil way, but when you watch it it’s quite funny, almost as if he is asking for as much help as he could get while the gettin is good. Lol so to speak

@skippylanoue966 2 года назад

A minority population in college can't possibly know what the typical low income/ low educated person experiences in white society or class. Some points about "racist" tests are true, but not everyone is as deep or college level thinking. Look how exhausting this discussion tired Peterson out🤣

@leverbart 2 года назад

Well put

@MrGflan 2 года назад

@@skippylanoue966 I think it depends on what you mean by college. Federal student loans help make it possible for those like myself to get to go to college to become better, yet not to the elitist minority for those such as John Kerry, fully disconnected from the people. Telling pipe workers that they should just learn coding. It’s unbelievable. But I suppose what I’m saying is that there are a lot of us for which college educated can be a way of escalating up our small dominance heirsrcies and is a good thing, if the education is used for the better of finding a job. As a guy with a masters degree, I will say that there also are way too many college educated people with 120k student debt who would have done much better with a 2 year trade school to become a well paid X ray technician. I’m thankful to have a good job with my education helping in my case. It just goes both ways but yes there are some awful elitist Yale graduates that think they are superior. This is essentially the Democratic Party. JK

@ManicBard 2 года назад

How utterly disappointing that there are so few people like these two gentlemen. Unphased by subject, and capable of the depth of education and the understanding of each subject. This conversation demanded my total attention, with extreme admiration. Thank you, Mssrs Peterson and McWhorter, for sharing your intellect.

@wendellbabin6457 Месяц назад

What is even sadder is how few of us could, or would ever get the chance to aspire to their level of Education and depth of understanding.

@Scott1433 Год назад

John McWhorter wow! who is this guy? What an absolute hero. If we had more people like him on the planet the world would be a wonderful place

@kateredhead7334 2 года назад

This was wonderful. It is like a couple of smart guys meeting at a party, finding a corner and having a really good conversation. Remember going to parties and being able to sit and talk about anything and everything? Remember meeting new people and being genuinely interested in what they had to say?

@adhardino9781 2 года назад

Yeah I remember that, seems like long gone times...

@jeremiahsams2848 2 года назад

Yes!! I truly miss those days.

@jpmartinofficial 2 года назад

Membeerrr? I member!

@jodykostner7138 2 года назад

SO Smart! and SO FAST! I switched my settings to playback this conversation at half speed and was able to keep up with all the gems these two were dropping (which I couldn't do at a party) AND it made them both sound a lil drunk which was kinda fun ;)

@1w598 2 года назад

@@jodykostner7138 Good idea! My brain can barely keep up. Lol

@animeshon2377 2 года назад

As an animator I can attest to the fact that even action is music when you are animating a character. The foot steps are a beat to which you time the drawings of the the character putting their feet to the ground. Movement is harmonic. Disney animators (classical 2D animators) are pioneers in this study. And that is why every frame is magic there.

@cslantz4020 2 года назад

I believe music mimics movement. From A to B.

@StrategicWealthLLC 2 года назад

@SOUL SEEKER - Matter converts to energy. Energy converts to matter. Energy has waves. Waves have frequencies…rhythms. Matter has waves, too…but with much, much longer frequencies.

@anthonyrodriguez2570 2 года назад

Miyazakis films have a similar rhythm of movement when slowed down or viewed frame by frame

@the2ndcoming135 2 года назад

Excellent reminder. The algorithms must be in rhythm when Bowie pops up in the notifications while listening to this😂

@suezcontours6653 2 года назад

We all know that but who CONTROLS it?

@perfect112customs Год назад

This is the first hour-long RU-vid video in a long time that I’ve actually dedicated the time to finish. And I wish it were longer! What a couple of rational, eloquent, deep thinkers

@annaguimaraes7343 2 года назад

I admire the way JP is willing to really listen to the thinking of his guest. He has this true desire to learn and comprehend things. And I found JM absolutely amazing, calm, straight forward in his thoughts and explanations. Lovely interview.

@tc2333 2 года назад

I am so glad these two intellectuals are talking together! I was hoping they would! Hope/prayer answered!

@samguest78 2 года назад

Ask Sowell to come on the podcast

@janelleg597 2 года назад

That would be 🔥🔥🔥🔥

@joannaandros9580 2 года назад

He is the best

@tallswede80 2 года назад

he denies the connection between race and iq.

@robakers4925 2 года назад

Ah…That’d be incredible but good luck getting a hold of him. I’m not sure if he even shows up to his office at Stanford any more.

@samguest78 2 года назад

@@robakers4925 ye it’s a shame, he’s probably past constant interviews by now in his life

@lettingthebearout7528 Год назад

Could listen to these two all day. What a wonderful conversation. So pleasing to see two very intelligent and articulate people converse.

@raymondpicardjr3069 2 года назад

This is so informative…I never thought at 46yrs old that I would be interested in a perspective of language. Thanks for the patience you both had with each other.

@RobertWGreaves 2 года назад

This is one of Jordan Peterson‘s more stellar installments. Much appreciated. I minored in linguistic anthropology and have continued to study linguistics even after leaving college. I look forward to reading McWhorter’s book. And I like his somewhat secular linguistic explanation of the difference between a mere opinion and a religious notion even as applied to ideas that are not thought of as related to the divine.

@michaeljackson8390 2 года назад

❣️

@differous01 2 года назад

Born with the ability to mimic the 'music' of our mother-tongue (French babies burble in different rhythms and cadence to English babies), having heard it in the womb, it persists as our 'accent'. Joining the howl is how the physical wolf participates in the meta-physical pack, the meta-pack is what we call God.

@p1b1harper 2 года назад

Linguistics was totally corrupted by Chomsky do they still teach his bunk?

@RobertWGreaves 2 года назад

@@p1b1harper The body of work coming from Chomsky is extensive. And although many linguists will disagree with various things, he still remains the most significant contributor to the field of linguistics alive today. His universal grammar is only one of the most controversial, but his contributions to linguistics reach much wider and deeper than that particular facet. Even by people who disagree with some of his more controversial positions still recognize him as the father of modern linguistics. Within several fields even those beyond linguistics, Chomsky is quoted in the academic journals more often than any other scholar alive today.

@p1b1harper 2 года назад

@@RobertWGreaves Chomsky himself has abandoned most of his original theories that dominated linguistics for decades, like the language organ and LAD. You should read Wolfes book Kingdom of Speech.

@shawntucker9283 2 года назад

I've watched 100hrs of podcast from these two separately. Literally and religiously so in awe of this collaboration. My soul is touched. Great job and much needed intelligent investigation of the truth

@daakrolb 2 года назад

Oh. your soul!! How long did you sob?

@joshuac1364 2 года назад

Amen. I'm glad I've been introduced to John. I didn't know he was around before today and just bought his book.

@philoneussquire3877 2 года назад

@@daakrolb Cain

@Shimigani1701 2 года назад

Shawn you freaking rock!!!

@christinecoleman8130 Год назад

I throughly enjoyed this conversation. One of many that should continue to be had. Thank you.

@NN-cc8uo Год назад

This is how people should have discussions. Intelligent, understanding, facts driven.

@Paradox-dy3ve 2 года назад

This is a crossover I didn't know I wanted, but I'm so happy that it's happening. Love these two guys! John is a paragon of class and intelligence 👍

@scrappydoo7887 2 года назад

@George Washington wrong

@YouTube_Handler 2 года назад

Lol- this is the collaboration I’ve been wanting for at least 5 years!! Awesome.

@scrappydoo7887 2 года назад

@George Washington obvious troll.

@mrthedarkknight3 2 года назад

I saw the Aspen Fest interview when John posed the question to Jordan. It seemed to be a bit of tension so I am so glad to see these two coming together one on one!

@scrappydoo7887 2 года назад

@@mrthedarkknight3 I think JBP takes the most morally correct and stimulating position in that he tends to have people on who either expand his understanding of something or directly challenge his views on subjects. It's one of the reasons I have so much respect for JBP

@tolvaer 2 года назад

love both of these guys, reading their books is actually a lot of fun and thought provoking!

@HeavyK. 2 года назад

What should be my first John book?

@michaeljackson8390 2 года назад

@@HeavyK. ❣️

@iobject1421 2 года назад

@@HeavyK. Woke Racism is a good one.

@liquidjackson7172 2 года назад

You have any recommendations?

@tolvaer 2 года назад

@@liquidjackson7172 As my primary interest in Dr. McQworter is in his linguistic insights; all of his books that pertain to language development are mindblowing at points. As a kid, I read the "Power of Babel" when it came out-damn fine read. Dr. Peterson's book, "Maps of Meaning" certainly makes you think. I'm far more conservative than either, but I would like to say that I have enjoyed learning about how to listen to the other side without getting in my own way.

@TheWorldofMomus 2 года назад

This was a beautiful conversation. A symphony of thoughts. I could have listened to it for hours if it had went on for hours.

@Orlin_does_stuff Год назад

Most intelligent, enlightening, enriching conversation I've ever heard. And it's fantastic to see how many people enjoyed it.

@beauxtx1959 2 года назад

Just finished Dr. McWhorter's Woke Racism audiobook on Thursday. It was phenomenal. I'm proud to not be one of The Elect. Listening to 9 Nasty Words now. Kudos to you both.

@michaeljackson8390 2 года назад

❣️

@joejones9497 2 года назад

Does it give a single scrap of advice about how to stop it? To me this is what we are all yearning for and so many books say nothing they just analyse what's bad and why it's bad etc.

@EbluestarE 2 года назад

i have never been made aware of, or met anyone who was of the Elect and read a book that challenged their position - such as this one.

@ChickVicious237 2 года назад

All of his works are great, he makes the Audible versions very entertaining, too. If you enjoy his linguistic material he does a lot of the Great Courses that are more technical. His charm makes a good listen out of just about anything.

@tinamitchell7496 2 года назад

Does John read it himself? Always my preference. I could never have managed Maps of Meaning without Jordan explaining as he went. Even the inflections provided by the author are helpful.

@withoutfurtheradoforever 2 года назад

We need more of this gentleman , Doc. A wonderful discussion.

@tlockerk 2 года назад

We need more gentlemen and ladies discussing this so wonderfully.

@tipple58 Год назад

I'm so glad I finally caught up with this discussion. Absolutely superb, and entertaining. Thank you, gentlemen.

@carolinecarvalho1669 Год назад

This interview was really important to me! I’m from Brazil and we live the same kind of issues with racism and deceiving ideologies that clearly won’t take us to a place of justice, peace or evolution as a society. Thank you so much.

@robbin-wt8kr Год назад

Unfortunately, many of the viewers did not get what was going on...Jordan understands this man is crazy but he also understands that he is too crazy to reach. This man is delusional and he is more dangerous to his race than a white supremacist.

@arpzs Год назад

I’m brazillian as well and I completly agree with your commentary. We need respect and the ability of having smart conversations about this issue.

@2degucitas Год назад

Are people of color the majority in Brazil?

@arpzs Год назад

@@2degucitas yes! They’re 54% of our population

@ancientcityfatbasterd2846 2 года назад

I could listen to John McWhorter for hours. He is always thoughtful and brings an interesting perspective.

@greebj 2 года назад

I first heard of him in a media clip where he impersonated Trump's linguistic style. Initially, I thought he was "only" a linguist... Ha!

@rccarothers 2 года назад

I Would prefer watching paint dry & then watch grass grow, I'm so tired of griffters on the left, BLM & antifa & white liberal suburban moms!

@Hannestv4607 2 года назад

***True love = the love of God!*** God himself went to the cross for you out of love for you as a human being Philippians 2:5-8

@livewithmeterandnomeasureb1679 Год назад

I know im all over these comments. But me and my bf love mcwhorter. He is awesome. His book "Woke Racism" is great!

@sathapalani 2 года назад

McWhorter never ceases to amaze me with his eloquence. I particularly like the way he breaks down racism in the end. We can never stop people from having racist thoughts or impulses; we have already done a pretty good job of making sure that overt racism socially unacceptable; there is the real legacy of structural racism, the remnants of which we need to deal with; that is what we should focus our attention on. Turning every social issue or conversation into a debate about race is not contributing to that important work.

@mikemck4796 2 года назад

You can’t stop racism, if for no other reason than it being useful. It might not be the most efficient thing, but if it’s uses are not explored, you can’t overcome it.

@almorris171 2 года назад

Racism is the same as tribalism. Look at the Balkan conflict. Look at our own Civil War. Even today see how Eastern Europeans regard gypsies aka Romas. Or a more tragic event occurred when members of the Hutu tribe attempted to wipe out the Tutsis.

@migueld8970 2 года назад

I think the word racism is used a lot where the word prejudice should be used

@brentanthony6038 2 года назад

I think the word racism is used a lot when there is no inferiority or feriority of races implied or intended, but instead we're actually talking about in group preference.

@eddiewakesmusic3137 2 года назад

@@migueld8970 ...or "deference" in predominate cases.

@spondulixtanstaafl7887 Год назад

I love watching videos that elevate the complexities of my thought. This being an excellent example. Thank you both.

@brianclingenpeel5123 2 года назад

I really appreciate Dr. McWhorter. he is willing to look truth in the face and speak to what he sees, regardless or his race/political leanings. Every time I watch an interview with him I am always thoroughly impressed and he did not disappoint here.

@bobon123 2 года назад

As an Italian, blue is also not there in Italian. "Blu" is only used for dark blue, while for light blue we use "azzurro" or "celeste", depending on the exact hue. To say "blu chiaro" or "blu scuro" you are marking an area that would go from a central blue (let's say US flag) to dark blue, but no one would use "blu chiaro" for what an American would call "light blue", like the Argentinian flag: that's "celeste". Our football team, azzurri, would likely called "blue" in US.

@Kam-pz5tb 2 года назад

Thanks for that explanation 👍 🙂 👌

@OutOfTheBoxThinker 2 года назад

Interesting...

@vincentb2542 2 года назад

Good point

@yuzan3607 2 года назад

Same in Arabic. "samawi" which literally means "of sky" or "sky-like" describes the colour "light blue", "azraq" is dark blue, "kuhli" is navy blue. I think it's the same in English with "red" vs. "pink". Nobody calls "pink", "light red", the colour "pink" is perceived as a completely different colour.

@moneypenny5436 2 года назад

Hence primary colors.

@andrewt35 2 года назад

This went so much deeper than the title would imply. . . Loved this conversation; thank you both for being so great at helping to make sense of this world!

@user-cp8qq2wo6k 2 года назад

ᴛʜᴀɴᴋs ғᴏʀ ʏᴏᴜʀ ᴄᴏᴍᴍᴇɴᴛ, ᴍᴀᴋᴇ ᴀ ɴᴏᴛᴇ ᴛᴏ ᴋᴀᴛʜʀʏɴ ʟɪɴᴄᴋ ʀᴇɢᴀʀᴅɪɴɢ ʙᴛᴄ/ ᴇᴛʜ ɪɴᴠᴇsᴛᴍᴇɴᴛ ɪᴅᴇᴀs 𝚃ᵉ𝚇ţ𝄍𝑾𝒉𝔮τ𝑠𝑨𝑝𝑝 ±𝟭𝟲𝟭𝟵𝟴𝟯𝟲𝟭𝟵𝟬𝟳 ʟᴇᴛ ʜᴇʀ ᴋɴᴏᴡ ɪ ʀᴇғᴇʀʀᴇᴅ ʏᴏᴜ;..

@jankutac9753 Год назад

Love how he uses the phrase "we as Europeans" without caring about all the meticulous bullshit people would comment, and just uses the phrase in a way that's very constructive to the situation. And Peterson as a Canadian doesn't oppose, like most stupid journalists would, I'm sure, and just stays on point because he understands what the other person is trying to say, and it makes perfect sense in that situation that he uses this expression

@mozdickson Год назад

instrumental use of language to facilitate conversation, as contrasted with the weaponisation of words to make political power points and leverage an agenda

@sheilahope603 Год назад

WOW!!!! THIS IS one of the most Interesting discussions, I have ever heard! Having lived in multiple countries, listening & learning different languages, and spent my life surrounded by mixed genres of music,,all of these musings I have thought of, but never had such a kind of conversation!! Thank you GUYS!!

@KanyekiKamawe 2 года назад

One of the things I really appreciate about people as intelligent as these two is how much content they can cover in such a short time!

@MsSimpleMovies 2 года назад

A simplified version of this message would be needed for those of the masses who wish to hear it. School has wasted intellectual potential in many of us, but we’re just the people who may need to hear the message the most.

@budslack3729 2 года назад

Yes but no, people are not stupid, give it to them straight and if they have questions then you can explain

@pillarmenn1936 2 года назад

@@budslack3729 You have to give it to them individually. Remember the quote "A person is smart, people are dumb".

@jacobmcmahan109 2 года назад

@@budslack3729 lol No that simply doesn't work today. Today most people aren't even capable of individual thought And the very idea of not having the same opinion as the masses is an alien concept to them.

@dthain 2 года назад

But as he says about teaching kids languages, you want to speak to people just ahead of their grasp to further them along. I think it's sad that we always want to dumb things down for everyone, when really we should be doing the opposite.

@JS-iz2fk 2 года назад

@@dthain First one must answer, "what is the goal?" Is it to intentionally dumb people down or the exact opposite? They way children are being taught screams intentionally suppressing or misleading learning and knowledge.

@sachabkitty Год назад

First degree I went for because I didn't know what I wanted was language and I LOVED linguistics, it was the best part and I never had used anything I learned in it until now (cause I changed course and never talked about it). This was so nice to listen to!

@NickMcC 2 года назад

This is fascinating. I wish I could listen to these guys talk for days. Just delicious conversation. We hit music, theology, history, language, and politics all before the halfway point of this video.

@LeoHMIII 2 года назад

I love John McWhorter. You can see he has a great desire to learn and understand things. I think the world would be a much better place if more people thought like him.

@GeorgeLee 2 года назад

Feels kind of blessed to be able to see this level of intellectual discussion on RU-vid !! Thanks, Dr.s. !

@janetbrown2927 Год назад

Definitely agree with you on this one.

@rules4life337 2 года назад

I can only imagine how amazing (and probably annoying) it must have been for his daughter to have such a brilliant waterfall of wisdom and experience from this beautiful man. And he shares his wisdom with humility not arrogance. Absolutely beautiful.

@eo9137 Год назад

Such a thought provoking discussion. Thanks for sharing it.

@jimmyzhao2673 2 года назад

Dr.Peterson & his guests are always *thought provoking* as opposed to the *thought terminating* discussions you hear on mainstream media.

@jonathankr 2 года назад

Omg. RU-vid is mainstream media. Stop blaming the boogey man for your inability to see content you think is beneath you.

@markdin2988 2 года назад

@@jonathankr inability? And RU-vid censors a lot. They removed dislikes too.

@lucilacantu 2 года назад

When it is said “we have to move forward in the discussion” (about culture), this conversation is exactly what I think it means. Great conversation! Great guest! Looking forward to reading his book.

@hernan2907 Год назад

The quality of these interviews is fantastic. The guests are first level, very knowledgeable on their topic and the topics reach philosophical levels; something hard to find nowadays. Top class interviews. Thank you Dr Peterson for such interviews!

@vinberube136 Год назад

Wow those closing thoughts by John were deeply moving. He's describing a healthier path forward. I hope your new book gets the audiobook treatment by you so I can fit it in my busy life.

@collativelearning 2 года назад

Excellent discussion. Thanks to both of you. The material about the psychological role of music is a special area of interest for me and you gave some new angles on it I hadn't thought of.

@salfordguy399 2 года назад

Shut up.

@alejandropreciado1814 2 года назад

Collative!! hope all is well love your content!

@robertcronin6603 2 года назад

Yep...for me as well

@davidqbs 2 года назад

I think there is significant parallels between music in this role and non-theistic religions such as Buddhism.

@danielturner9832 2 года назад

Linguistics? How boring until I listened to the professor talk about it.

@badroto2413 2 года назад

Great interview! McWhorter is one of the most interesting thinkers out there. Great to hear a discussion with him by someone on his intellectual level. Most of the time we just end up wishing that the interviewer was better equipped (or even motivated) to take advantage of the interviewee's perspectives and better able to elicit the level of responses that they are capable of delivering.

@erikbkonz 2 года назад

Dr P.... I read your book, watched everything I can hear you speak on, and this was my favorite conversation you've had...! You should invite him again, especially when he writes a new book in 8 months!! 😅 You look good and well recovered, so please keep on truckin' because you're very needed and muched loved ❤

@user-gj4iq2ob9c 9 месяцев назад

This conversation was just music to my ears, thank you guys 🌷

@natehomol9188 2 года назад

God, I absolutely love this conversation, especially the deep dives on music, story and reality. I wish everyone would listen to this conversation.

@themightydog677 2 года назад

What an exceptional discussion! It's always refreshing to listen to rational ideas on such a controversial topic. I'll definitely be looking into more of John McWhorter's content!

@sportscarman5 2 года назад

He's great, look up the Glen show. That's where he and his conversation partner Glen Lowry host their podcast.

@CarsonHughes85 2 года назад

Check out his talks with Sam Harris, and Coleman Hughes.

@raphun76 2 года назад

I have read his book Woke Racism and it is very interesting and I think very timely in what it says. Do yourself a favor and read the book you will not regret it.

@f.r8580 Год назад

This is one of the best episodes, every topic was interesting. Please have John on again

@PrenticeBoy1688 Месяц назад

I'm revisiting this interview for the first time since it was originally released. I'm enjoying it just as much as I did the first time through. Please consider having this learned gentleman back for another conversation.

@energyben 2 года назад

Love John McWhorter. He should do audio books; I could listen to his voice all day!

@mikimeadows 2 года назад

My first encounter with McWhorter was his great courses audiobook on language families

@glimmrgirl 2 года назад

Try his podcast Lexicon Valley :)

@H7dro 2 года назад

People like Jordan Peterson give me hope for humanity. Thank you 👍

@francoistombe 2 года назад

And note who are trying to demonize him and shut him up (and/or down).

@donello430 2 года назад

@@francoistombe The people trying to shut him up are those on left who know his criticisms of the 'post modern neo-marxist' ideology are accurate, no matter how they try and ridicule and deny it. The best thing they could do for the left is to take his criticisms onboard and correct course.

@questcomputer4545 Год назад

I studied linguistics 1981, 1982,1983. This flashback is fantastic. At least this field is still clean and has not changed in 30 years. Lovely! Thank you!

@vincentdigirolamo473 Год назад

Not sure it's a good thing for a field not to change in 30 years.

@mister_meagle Год назад

@@vincentdigirolamo473 Not sure it's a good thing for a field to change rapidly, especially something like language, history, etc. Seems like those should be something that doesn't change every 30 years?

@TwiztidMenace Год назад

John McWhorter is incredible. I love the way he thinks. Thank you JP for bringing him more attention!

@chloely_ 2 года назад

As a fellow linguist I am amazed by John's knowledge. It was an honor to listen to both of you!

@Hannestv4607 2 года назад

*The ETERNAL GOD would do anything for you!!* Even out of love for you he went to the cross as a human!! Philippians 2:5-8

@colinjames2469 Год назад

@@Hannestv4607 🤦🏻‍♂️🤮

@michaelszczys8316 Год назад

They make me to think my children should have come out with a large vocabulary talking like Stewie Griffin.

@Unknown_Web_User Год назад

By his ignorance you ment? He is spewing nonsense about russian language for example. Like as if we have no word for blue. Its nonsense.

@jupitereye4322 2 года назад

John McWhorter is a great teacher and I am glad he got into the arena. I was waiting for this podcast!

@user-cp8qq2wo6k 2 года назад

ᴛʜᴀɴᴋs ғᴏʀ ʏᴏᴜʀ ᴄᴏᴍᴍᴇɴᴛ, ᴍᴀᴋᴇ ᴀ ɴᴏᴛᴇ ᴛᴏ ᴋᴀᴛʜʀʏɴ ʟɪɴᴄᴋ ʀᴇɢᴀʀᴅɪɴɢ ʙᴛᴄ/ ᴇᴛʜ ɪɴᴠᴇsᴛᴍᴇɴᴛ ɪᴅᴇᴀs 𝚃ᵉ𝚇ţ𝄍𝑾𝒉𝔮τ𝑠𝑨𝑝𝑝 ±𝟭𝟲𝟭𝟵𝟴𝟯𝟲𝟭𝟵𝟬𝟳 ʟᴇᴛ ʜᴇʀ ᴋɴᴏᴡ ɪ ʀᴇғᴇʀʀᴇᴅ ʏᴏᴜ;

@agricolaregs 2 года назад

He’s amazing. I agree with Jordan more politically but McWhorter is brilliant. His linguistics stuff is amazing.

@johnseaverton1820 2 года назад

@@agricolaregs What is Jordans politics? he always says he's A political

@mr.madhatter5538 Год назад

What an Amazing conversation. Makes me extremely envious of conversations between intellectuals like these that we never get to see.

@brycel.williams8624 3 месяца назад

Ah man, I could chat with John McWhorter for days about music. What a great conversation.

@Philosophiseraptor 2 года назад

Very happy to hear/see this conversation occur. The rest of my day can wait. Let's go.

@djbriantalbot 2 года назад

Thank you both for this conversation. I have been running up against these issues my entire life, and every time I act outside of my expected character, my intelligence and level of education are immediately questioned. Point lost, end of useful conversation. I hope this hits many eyes and ears!

@DeKnight95 2 года назад

Well said.

@techronin_ Год назад

This discussion is an absolute gift.

@Yattayatta Год назад

What a conversation ! Such a privilege to be a able to listen in. Big fan of both Jordan and John, I have a masters in linguistics myself so it's really exciting seeing such a prominent person be interviewed by someone like Jordan!

@williambrowning4842 2 года назад

The way Dr. Peterson actually engages with issues, listens actively with his guests, and still expresses his thoughts is something to aspire to.

@Pseudify 2 года назад

I typically don’t like JP’s interview style because he often doesn’t give enough time to the interviewee. But here it worked better because JM was willing to jump in to the conversation - and occasionally even interrupt - instead of waiting, overly politely, for a proper question followed by a pause.

@oUncEblUnt420 2 года назад

I would never, for the life of me, be able to formulate responses on such short notice; be it due to lack of attention span, or maybe just practice. The man is an inspiration

@markheithaus 2 года назад

@@oUncEblUnt420 These two are scholars to the Nth degree. And they converse well together. I love it.

@Cyberfender1 2 года назад

@@markheithaus I have to listen carefully, for a guy, undereducated as I.

@markheithaus 2 года назад

@@Cyberfender1 don't sell yourself short. Scholarship isn't just formal, nor simply about the accumulation of knowledge. It's about a humble attitude, willingness to listen to others and the desire to understand. You're very interest in bothering to try to listen to these two men is a big plus on your part. I'm american, but I lived in Russia for a few years. As you can understand, what's happening in Ukraine hurts my heart. But there are so many wonderful people I met and who I love. A lot of the "educated" people in my life asked "why Russia?". It was my "uneducated" granddaddy who told me "go. Most people are just about the same." He was right. Unfortunately, we're seeing a lot of the similarity and flaws. But we are one humanity. That's why I appreciate Jordan Peterson and John McWhorter. An "expert" might boast about their knowledge of literature. For me, as a Christian, I love Dostoevsky: "we will forgive, first of all we will forgive. And we hope that they will forgive us too. We are all guilty. Every one of us is to blame. God forgive us all." -Fyodor Mikhailovich Dostoevsky Those are the words of one of his characters in a novel. Taken right from the Our Father: "forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us." If you have love in your heart, the "education" will work itself out.

@hasan.radawi 2 года назад

Loved every minute of it! Bravo to the both of you! The “unpacking” begins @ 32:52 - but, the whole podcast, from beginning to end, is entirely splendid! Thank you, Dr. Peterson.

@edwardhaines3035 Год назад

Thank you for an incredible journey. I was spellbound and enjoyed both your inputs. Thank you!

@wendellfontaine7387 Год назад

How absolutely wonderful to see two intelligent and thoughtful people having such beautiful and deep discourse

@deanc8077 2 года назад

This is one of the most interesting exchanges I've ever seen on the tube. The respect for open thought and rational discussion can provide great insight. This was very insightful. I greatly appreciate the opportunity to view this intellectual exchange.

@theminister1154 2 года назад

Jordan's a really good interviewer it turns out. I've heard a lot of John's press for this book, and he seemed happiest here. Here & when talking to Glen about it.

@yeadatwunyt8004 2 года назад

"The Tube" ... heh heh heh ... sry im not one of the smart ones here xd

@sir2657 2 года назад

They took down Donald Trump in nelk podcasts and Donald Trump was so chill n just cool on that podcast

@sir2657 2 года назад

@@yeadatwunyt8004 we are all monkez broski

@bobboberson6664 2 года назад

But if you listen to some sources, both of these men are right wing knotsees

@davidtipple3040 2 года назад

Experiencing 2 such intelligent men have a deeply meaningful conversation is an absolute pleasure. Thank you gentlemen!

@mozdickson Год назад

superb conversation, and thought provoking ideas. Anecdote alert! I was a few months into learning Portuguese (as a 40 something year old, monolingualist, with a masters in applied anthropology) when it dawned on me how much language is, at its core, simply about shuffling objects (the things and the feels and the folks) through space and time (the past and the present and the future). In some sense a 'coping mechanism' for the state we find ourselves in. And yeah, I'm a theist. Anyways, thanks both Jordan and John. Obrigado.

@Bellax912 Год назад

As always, thank you Dr. Peterson for letting me be part of such an insightful and intellectual conversation.

@crym77 2 года назад

I am very pleased to see this interview. I watched Professor McWhorter's linguistics course on Great Courses plus long before hearing Peterson. I recognized McWhorter when he asked questions of Peterson from the audience in an interview years ago. I'm glad both of them continue to converse and you share it with us. Thank you!

@matthewmaccaughey5016 2 года назад

So pumped these two are finally having a full conversation. Thanks for making this happen Professor Peterson!

@clintstinytrailerconversio5560 2 года назад

Marvelous interview and discussion. Interesting to relate "beat" to truth. Consistency and Dependability are types of truth... cool. Of all the recent discussions I have had the pleasure to enjoy, this one makes one think. Thank you.