Yoooo, I've always seen Taliyah as a cool concept, but playing her felt kinda slow with big damage. The changes on her passive and q are a massive difference on the feel of the champion. 10/10
It's how she was originally released, but was just too op in mid lane I guess. I suspect we're going to see a lot more Taliyah mid with these changes, which I think is a good thing.
@@Owain2129 yeah and it was op because she had such insane wave clear? You can't say she wasn't op and proceed to mention her wave clear was so insane that all her playstyle was roam everytime. She was too op and spammed in challenger.
That Q change is glorious! I absolutely hate that lingering worked ground mechanic and with that change, it seems Taliah will be played much more often on mid.
@Cynphir What do you mean they don't, have you watched the video? champs who dash over her reworked E get stunned. Yes there are some exceptions like katarina who has a blink. But I mean there are many champs who dash, like lucian, Caitlyn, yasuo, irelia, yone, renekton, tryndamere and LITERALLY any adc/champ that buys galeforce. And in case of a vex, you deal a decent amount of damage on those who dash, but not a crazy amount. So against fed champs or against irelia/yas/trynda, you won't affect them that much. Maybe during early levels in laning phase yes it helps you get an extra lead with that dmg, but in teamfights its meh. But compare that with a stun to any dash in teamfights, it will be a game changer if taliyah lands her E well. Not to mention, the threat of being stunned (even if it is for 1s) will make ppl hesitant/careful when to use their dashes rather than being able to use them freely. So even if she doesn't stun them, she will delay/prevent them from dashing for a while, especially at higher elos where people know what they are doing
I remember unlocking Taliyah with a bug hours before the official release. I was the top Taliyah player on the entire world for a couple hours (excluding pbe). I always felt sad seeing her not being played...
These mid scope updates are actually such a cool idea. It’s like what they had with the old Aatrox rework before they did his VGU. Low investment high reward without upsetting mains (most of the time).
there are many issues with making it a knockup, the biggest being that knockups are not effected by tenacity. in general riot are very afraid to add true cc to the game to avoid another malphite, thats the reason abilities like sion q are only a 0,25 second knockup and the rest is considered a "stun".
@@Zenned I don't think I agree that tenacity is really the biggest problem. Avoiding true cc is merely a design choice by Riot. The problem I see is conflict of purpose and point between Tali's E and the way Knockups are defined. It will also greatly reduce the use of W. The problem I see is how knockup and Tali's E are opposites. Snare and stun effects are status effects. They can be delayed (For example, you can snare Malphite in ult and it gets delayed until after the ult finishes its animation). This ensures that the champion foolishly going through the mines will take all the damage it triggers from her E while getting a full stun afterwards. Knock(up)s, however, isn't a status effect. They are displacement effects. In other words, it can override that "dash" that triggers the mines in the first place. (Think of Veigar cage, a knockdown, stopping something like Trist's w) This is also why "grounded" won't work on taliyah E either. It will just activate one mine and.....that's it. This also conflicts with Tali's own W. Making Tali's E into a displacement will effectively reduce her W and E to merely CC spells that feels bad to use together and also do no damage. In other words, Taliyah will effectively end up with 3 spells that are full utility and no damage. While you might think "we have so much damage in game anyways. A champion without damage and full utility will be nice." While I agree, it can be a good idea but this is not what Taliyah is known for. This will become a bigger problem because her abilities will start working without the need of AP scaling (other than Q). Effectively, she will start moving into low-income roles like support because her use doesn't change whether she gets gold or not. By doing so her ult's effectiveness is also greatly reduced (Mids and Jgs have the best roaming coverage). She will lose her identity as a roaming mage and become fast-moving displacement support. On the side note, this override arrangement is also why tenacity doesn't work with knockups. It's hard to program a reduction of displacement. TL;DR: I believe keeping W as the only knock(up) in her kit is essential to the point and purpose of Taliyah.
@@Um4r3x With the number of champs that dash around, counter cc is huge imo. Gives her better team fight synergy and peel. It's all pretty impactful honestly.
@@AlexGMason It's more for the midlane Taliyah so she can survive against assassins mid. She has no escape if an assassin jumps on her. Now she has E to peel for herself.
i love that they're working on QoL changes for old champs instead of forgetting them while releasing new champs. some champs need full VGU but a lot can be made better with just changes like this or the olaf or swain changes. ofc they might need some buffs or nerfs after but i've always thought the design is more important than the balance because healthier design is easier to balance.
Well, at the pace they are releasing champs like samira, yone, zeri etc. they need to step up the reworks, otherwise they'll have 50% of their roster unplayable/unpicked at the end of the year.
Riots rework team are really doing amazing work recently. They used to mostly just do about 2 or 3 VGUs a year where some would be good and some would just be deleting a champion and replacing it with a new one. Over the last few years they've really been taking time with their full VGUs to respect the old champions which is great however it means that the pace is extremely slow. There's a lot of champions from seasons 5 to 8 that have amazing visuals but lackluster gameplay. Having the gameplay team work on those champions was an excellent idea. Also having the skin team give caitlyn a visual rework was a stroke of genius and i hope they do that with more of the season 1-5 champions
Idk what you think constitutes as ''amazing work'', but if you have to rework champions constantly, even ones released 2-3 years ago - thats just evidence for pathetic incompetence in game design.
@@voilvelev6775 "recently" Also I'd rather play game where the devs fix their mistakes instead of pretending they're perfect Also if you think it's pathetic that a champion that was designed 13 years ago by an indie company doesn't hold up compared to champions designed today by a huge corporation then you have impossibly high standards. Even the season 5/6/7 champion all came out half a decade ago. They're outdated.
@@ummmmmmmmmmmnmmmm Honestly, refreshing to hear positive feedback from this community. Sometimes we trash way too much on Riot (even if it is deserved) that we just forget that sometimes they also make good decisions, and we should call them out for those too. No company is perfect. I hope they keep up the good work.
I’m so happy for y’all this seems like the kinda tweaks any underperforming champ should get. Reworks that do major changes are really hard to do right.
As a taliyah main. This is exactly what she needed. That E stun is huge, she was designed to counter mobile champs but instead was hard countered by them, now she is actually good Vs them. I am so happy 😍🥺 faith in riot restored 😇
@@Ieaser i dont think all or nothing with you hitting W is a fun gameplay mechanic. She was designed to be a range DPS battlemage like azir. Now she is a burst 100 to zero long range mage if she hits W. I love this new taliyah, going back to her roots
Glad to see that she's less of a mess overall. I think the passive change is really great, but was hoping for a little more on her ult since it's mainly geared for pro play. It'd be cool if you could bend the wall to encircle enemies as you move along, but I get that it would be rife with horrible bugs, and still be ridiculously strong in pro play. I'm hoping for a Neeko rework as well since she's a horrible mess of a champion too with a haphazard champ identity being stretched in so many different directions.
How is it geared to pro play? Taliyah wasnt played there in ages, she only sees play when she does something ridiculous (like outjungle everyone.) New ult gives her a TON of new approaches for non pro play and is a lot more forgiving now than before. Before this you would sometimes not even consider ulting, because you had 0 chance to get to where you want. Now, if you use it YOU decide where you dismount 100% of the time, no questions asked. This is HUGE for soloq.
They need to reduce or remove the part of her not being able to use ult after taking damage damage. One of the more “skill expressive” aspects of Taliyah was understanding when and how to use ult in team fights to probably cut off enemies and cancel channels. They shouldn’t remove that. I get that they don’t want her to be able to just escape any fight at all but they could make it something like if she takes damage within the first 2 seconds of ult she gets knocked off/can’t ride.
@@xHannibal You still can do that. If they reduce the amount of time you have to wait to be able to use it, especially if they do it kinda like Yuumi with her W. They scale it so late game there is no wait time at all and you can use it whenever, but early on you can't use in combat for a longer period.
It might be yet another very different Taliyah compared to what her original state was, but it's far closer to what she was and was meant to be to, where as the ¨jungle rework¨ was a completely different playstyle that wasn't even very original
I always loved taliyah's gameplay when she released it, but when they took the AOE from her Q, it was really bad to play with her mid and I don't like to play jungle, this rework seems to be bringing her back to her origins
Really looking forward to this change, Taliyah has been feeling extremely awkward to play for the last.. god knows how long. I used to play her so much before they shifted her into the jungle meta, so I am looking forward to playing her mid again :) Occationally support if they have a lot of dashes in the botlane...
Huge fan of these "mid-scope" reworks. Reworks are my favorite part of following LoL patches, and I was very sad when they got cut down to, what, 1 a year? Still waiting for Udyr :(
Udyr is just alot of work, his base kit demands ALOT and he has that ultimate skin too. His dev time is taking ages because of that - he's an exception, other reworks should be a bit quicker to come out than him.
These are some amazing changes, the only thing I hope is that they change the missile of the worked ground q- it feels like it should be more like a mega-gnar boulder than a just scaled up normal q
Can you consume multiple worked grounds by standing in an overlap? Or is it like newly created worked ground can override the area of a previous one, so that there's no visible overlap?
I'm really happy for these changes. She seems way healthier and not just a E>W>Q bot. Her work ground actually feels like a buff and not a nerf. And most importantly this righted the wrong of her rework.
@@Kilesfactor she's pretty rewarding if your good at reading the movement of your opponent (since you can weq combo), and basically stop enemies from closing the distance
I really like It flavor/lore-wise. She works the ground then can use it kinda like an "sculpture", before it was more like consuming the ground and draining it slowly.
With her lowered burst and new (old?) are on Q, I imagine liandry is gonna be the item of choice instead of ludens. Long range aoe burning poke and a stun on anyone who tries to engage on you? Sounds fun, but I’ll miss the pseudo assassin play style, especially as a support pick.
Why every rework and nerf need to have reduced hp & armor. Like cmon riot, we get it, that you want more dmg, but that's too much. Ahri also lose hp, jayce after 3 dmg buffs also losed defensive base stats. Please stop add more dmg creep to game.
These changes finally make taliah mid a viable possibility and maybe even very good option. Laning is no longer resricted by worked ground and to some extent this change will even buff her farming. Much better roaming capabilites with pasive/r and a little more scaling. I guess after all she will be a jungle/mid flex which is nice, it felt awkward for her to be forced into only jungle and now mid it is!
@@locolorenz i anticipated an answer like that and first of all i would like to point out i basicaly dont play taliah. That said i could agree she was "viable" before but these changes push her from being just "viable" to maybe even a good stable/standard pick. As for her being slower, i think that is true if we mean damage, now it takes more Time for her to ramp thst up but her accual mobility i feel got buffed, sure you lose a little ms at the begginig but that 2,5 second thingy on her pasive by far exceedes that, her r also got buffed, she is a little slower a the start but her late will get much so much better.
2:42 jump of arc is so deceptively high and innacurate to actual location mid air it will really be hard to knock her mid air assuming enemy did not see the point where she lifted off which again, is always a straight line.
As a Taliyah player I hated when people started using her jg and was balanced to be played there only, I love most of the changes of this but I'm worry that she wont come back to mid because of how better her passive is and the new worked ground lasting until one cast, knowing how to use the worked ground in lane was her best tool to survive and I don't think this will help her, the new stun in E is really a life saver tho, I hope that she's still playable mid after this
honestly I think this will encourage more mid play. I know managing her q was a big part of her kit but it felt awful and slow for a person who wasn't as experienced with her to be able to farm and trade effectively if the circles weren't perfect and the opponent was playing around it. I feel like the new changes will sort of relieve that stress and make her more welcoming for players to try since you still have to manage the worked ground for the big damage it's just not as condemning if you misplace it since you can just remove it later
I used to love Taliyah and as someone who always enjoys the Earth mage fantasy in games, she was my my midlane main for quite some time. Sadly the loss of her AoE Q kinda killed the champion in mid, and she always felt kinda clunky, especially her passive. The changes look great though. They made her Q good for mid again, made her passive and ultimate smoother, put more emphasis into using her E as an anti-dash mechanic (Poppy W is my favourite skill in the game so this makes me happy), and gave a lot of QoL improvements in general. I'll be excited to play Taliyah again in the midlane after the change. I could never get on with her as a jungler. You either played incredibly well or were useless, and other junglers are just far more forgiving to play while being similarly effective.
Does the displacement on your W work on yourself or your teammates? Feel like that would be a really cool mechanic especially since Trundle pole and Anivia wall work on teammates and enemies alike.
Finally some Great Changes for this Champion to make it more fun to play. Particularly the worked ground consumption is extremely welcomed as it allows for more strategic decision making while also making the champion more accessible to get into.
Taliyah's e and worked ground getting something nice is really good and should have been implemented way back but it is fine. Though it would be nice if they did not removed the worked ground always staying because thta is like a hint and identity that a taliyah was nearby before but in terms of less of them staying on the ground, that is a definitely needed gameplay up.
I like all of these but not sure about the new E shape. Kind of liked the widespread shape it was before instead of it being longer/skinnier, but maybe I just need to try it out.
as a pyke main with a taliyah duo friend this is nice. mana regen might hurt early game but as long as wee can capitalize on pyke ult early we should be good.
Her w and e changes makes me want to play her support. The ability to roam more consistently is also something I like having as even though she is hypothetically weaker early she can still have a huge impact on other lanes. More reliable scaling and having more control over her ult is nice.
I played her before this as a support and she was more or less a burst support like brand, and she could cut off enemies. I think these new changes will make her a lot more interesting for support.
I was a Taliyah mid main back then, but not until she got nerfed so much that she ended up being used as a support or a jungle. I'm so happy for these changes in her kit, feels like I'll use her again more often.
Pretty crazy how drastically they changed worked ground. First it was a cheap way to poke and last-hit. Now it s a fucking nuke LOL. I used to play Taliyah mid in season 8 and I'll be having a lot of fun with these changes
Recently I picked her in jungle for my first time and my mid was flaming me for it, because "she is not a jungler". She actually feels kind of weak in the jungle and these buffs should help her. And also, I really liked her play style, although I played a few games only. After this rework I will definitely play her more
I love these changes, and I've never wanted to play Taliyah. I love what Riot is doing, refreshing various champions with more user-friendliness in mind. I am so excited for the future of these champions, more friendly and easy to use, and what other reworks they have in plan !
Imagine asking riots to create simple champions. It's not like we already have over 100 brain dead champions where pressing the button on cooldown is a win.
BEEG Q BOULDER, those changes seems awesome. I never minded playing her on ARAM, but on SR she always felt like a worse version of Rumble's Q, Vel'Koz's E, Singed's W and TF's R. Now she feels like an actual new champion!
Its a dope change, although i do think the E change is a bit extra, like it wasnt even that vanilla to start but that stun is overkill. The Q is dope and the W is acceptable. The R looks weird cause of being unable to use it during damage cause walling people off during fights were necessary. Finally, holy crap her passive needed this, like its so annoying being pushed off your board so frequently
I’ve really enjoyed playing taliyah and as much as I enjoy picking off people and one shot bursting them down quickly I’m really looking forward to this change, I usually go mid with her as she isn’t very viable in jungle however with the new AoE change she will be able to clear camps much faster leading to more efficiency when ganking
@Vandiril quick question - does the E change mean Kalista basically cannot fight Taliyah? 'Cause it sure looks like that to me... I hope they make an exception for Kalista - if they can nerf Amumu's E because of Zeri, then they should be able to do this too.
I really love taliyah especially when released, I unlocked her immedietly. But when they removed the aoe Q, I stopped playing her. I also bought her to be played originally in mid. Glad theyre bringing it back
I like the changes, but kind of wish they did a bit more with the ult. In concept the ult sounds great, but a huge number of champs can go through wall and everyone just picks flash. There's nothing worse than perfectly blocking the enemy with your ult and have them go through regardless
Looks like they did a good job tbh, everything looks a little smoother, no more running then walking as soon as you get a couple pixels away from the wall.
I loved Taliyah when she was released, but stopped playing her when they changed her Q for the first time :/ That really threw me off. Really excited about this new changes!!
As a taliyah otp im obviously sad my champ gets reworked, but it looks really promising, especially small stuff like the Q bug could be very annoying. Creative changes, looking forward to it!
Whatever do you mean not as viable as before? One shotting with her was not that simple, but now she has stun and slow. She's way better as a support now because of that utility.
I don't play Taliyah, but this change really makes me want to try her out. Now it feels like you don't get too punished for being inexperienced with her, but she still has a high skill cap.
Thanks for the recap, I played her occasionally but stopped because she felt too clunky, now she looks way more fun. It actually makes me want to pop into LoL real quick to try her.
That E change is so big TBH. The stun on dash through it is huge. It's basically a huge area denial for most recently released champions who tend to have some kind of mobility spell. It already deals huge dmg when dashing through it, so 1 second stun seems a bit overkill TBH
Very good video. As a Taliyah main, i think this fixes everything that made her a...yikes pick. Mainly the e being a stun is huge. You always have problems with people dashing towards you because the damage is not good.
I was a mad Taliyah main when she got released. The first 10 games went awful and after figuring out my own build and runes, I was able to get pentakills after pentakills. She got changed so much that I lost interest but those changes don't seem like debatable reworks - more like quality of life upgrades. Very glad to see Riot focus on what a champion was supposed to be, instead of what niche this old champ could fill nowadays.
I hadn't been getting the Q cooldown on worked ground consistently for around 8 months now, finally I can play Taliyah again lol When I say consistently I mean literally 100% of the time. It was just broken on my client/ account. No idea how it happened but it did.
I know I'm biased because Ishe's been my main since release, but this was one of their best reworks imo. Fixed issues but didnt gut anything. Honestly it was so frustrating having to meticulously path so your shoulder is always rubbing the wall to get the passive lol.
taliyah is probably my all time most played champ, and i loved her even with wonky launch W although i've taken a substantial break from the game, this is great to see. they doing RIGHT by my girl for once, bless
Actually forgot that Taliyah was a champion like I haven't seen her in my games, not even when I play ARAM when I need to have some fun. I might try playing her again because of this since I was going to main her before the "nerfs" came in
The passive always felt clunky and unnatural to use because it would switch on and off in the middle of two walls for no reason, so that's nice quality of life change. Also her E felt lackluster without W, thank god it stuns. And I donr know how many years we've been begging for the AoE Q to come back. She was alwways supposed to be a control mage but never really felt like one, finally she's making more sense now.
