Talking Physics with Aris of Kunos Simulazioni | SimRacing Expo 2019

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Welcome to The Sim Channel for an interview with Aristotelis Vasilakos of Kunos Simulazioni: We discuss the next updates to ACC, the new 5-point tire model, and chassis flex!
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Additionally, Aris' comment from the comments section:
"Hi there. Just some additional information that you and other viewers might like. Car simulator "games" do have real physics, but as real as they can. There are aspects of car handling that are still unknown in all the details to the actual manufacturers. For example, many aspects of tyre behaviour, especially at extreme conditions over the limit, are unknown to the manufacturers. Aerodynamics, wind flow still can't be predicted 100% (heck physics scientists and mathematicians start to discuss that might not be possible AT ALL to solve such equations, not for cars, but generally... but that's another scientific region). Also not everything in a car is measurable and not everything is simulated.
So each developer tries to push the envelope a little more everytime, but sometimes even tiny differences (on a tyre curve for example) can result in quite different feel. I can assure you that all sim devs when they get real data they feed them into their sims and "lock them". Then they try to do reverse engineering on the data they don't know, based on real telemetry and performance, but this is where "interpretation" influenced by personal experience, might come in. But there is no "artistic impression" for sure. Everybody is trying as hard as they can to get as realistic as possible and you can see how most important sims converge to simila behaviour. There are differences but they are mainly "feel" differences, not massive behaviour differences. As if you change tyres to your car, it might feel different, or it feels different from a hot day to a cold day etc."

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Опубликовано:

11 сен 2019

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Комментарии : 56

@jonathanyoung6397 4 года назад

Aris is such great, passionate guy.. a real credit and one of the heroes of sim-racing... ACC is sublime :-)

@johanndaart7326 4 года назад

Aris is really honest when he talks about issues with the sim. It makes me believe that ACC is going to be great when they will finish it. Just like they did with AC.

@TheModmc 4 года назад

aris should be renamed to awsome love that guy and his posts in the forums

@westcoast117 4 года назад

Wow, this guy really knows his stuff. Very interesting!

@schwifty2652 4 года назад

awesome video, i love how honest Aris is with all his answers and his passion with the game. also ACC content is always awesome :D♥

@RobertManz 4 года назад

Always nice to hear the guys from kunos. I always have the Impression they answer very honestly. I had a talk to minolin at the expo about beeing honest as a developer is very complicated because of the high risk of a shitstorm and i totally understood his position. Nice to see that Aris is so honest just to say "we dont so that because we have no data" . Thats why i like these guys. Not only PR-Bullshittalk

@brigildea 4 года назад

You interview Aris I sub'd…. easy! Fantastico!!

2 года назад

Important topic. GIGO or Garbage In is Garbage Out is important for any other feedback system down the line.

@lateapex9420 4 года назад

Really enjoyable and informative. Nearly makes me want to get a new wheel and give AC a go. I've always been iracing in the past.

@Egotime07 4 года назад

I'm sad to hear there is not much that can be changed about collisions online ;( Still, Aris really is a great guy and I appreciate his efforts and achievments with Kunos Simulazioni :)

@AMRosa10 4 года назад

The problem is a function of communication latency. No sim or racing game will ever get multiplayer modes perfect because you can't have instantaneous communication between Clients and Server. You would even have the same issue if you had everyone in the same physical location as there will always be a slight amount of latency which is magnified with racing games given the speeds represented. Even 30ms latency means that a car traveling 300kph would travel 2.5 meters in the time it takes for the data packet with its exact position to travel. The game makers try to predict where the other players car is when they represent it to you and updates that position as the other player's client transmits positional data back to the server, but the exact position is always going to be limited to the communication rate between the other player to the server then from the server back to your client.

@AMRosa10 2 года назад

@Jonas Jonaitis Realistically and not cost prohibitively. Marea can transmit a photon of light from Virginia in the US to Bilboa in Spain in 33ms. That is just the trip on the undersea cable. Then you have the latency time to run through the switching stations, ISPs etc. You might be able to set up something with better latency on a LAN at a location, say like the Grand Turismo Nations Cup events (and it would still be very expensive to do in an on site venue), but you are not going to get those speeds for players connected in an online lobby from multiple locations around the world, so the games will still have to resort to predictive modeling to smooth out the communication lags.

@guidofoc7057 4 года назад

Instant like, Aris is one of the best guys in simracing.

@Abgefahren789 4 года назад

Great interview, love that guy :D

@Nicsos123 4 года назад

Very interesting, thank you

@themarenda 2 года назад

Kunos simulazioni makes the best physics and force feedback than any other sim racing developer, I wish they made a rally sim, it would probably be the best by quite some margin

@alpha007org 4 года назад

RU-vid lead me here. I started sim racing just a couple of months before this video came out. And before this tire model was introduced. I HATED ACC back then. Then in the beginning of 2020 people started talking more and more about ACC and I bought a new PC dedicated to sim racing. I again tried ACC and fell in love with it. Now it is a different game/sim then when I first tried. So much so, that I race only in ACC now. Best sim ever. I wonder how they implemented chassis flex since Aris said in this video there is no data available...

@oliveiraluis3540 8 месяцев назад

Great interview. What is the "sauces flex" thing they talk about at the end?

@oortcloud210 4 года назад

ACC is awesome.

@MK-lj3jf 4 года назад

After such a deep answer regarding the flexibility of the chassis, they added it to the game. Are you joking?

@TheSimChannel 4 года назад

"For those of you who saw my interview with Aris and are now surprised by the addition of chassis flex: Aris told me that it was actually that very interview we had that spawned a discussion with one of his colleagues about the feasibility of chassis flex, which ultimately led to its inclusion in this update. Can't deny I'm a little proud of that."

@MK-lj3jf 4 года назад

@@TheSimChannel :O :)

@DeFausti 4 года назад

@@TheSimChannel That's amazing!

@arbeloss5205 4 года назад

what a cool guy he is!

@_xndrzt 4 года назад

Aris is the best

@burdineestep4224 4 года назад

Need to be able to buy the Sparco,A/C Kunos shirt PLEASE IN U.S.A.

@staysikth 4 года назад

10:56 its mad that he said it wont make it to the game but it did a few months later.

@TheSimChannel 4 года назад

This interview is kinda the reason it's in the game :-)

@gjmotorsport 4 года назад

I would like to see sausage flex in ACC!

@TheSimChannel 4 года назад

:-D i.makeagif.com/media/12-12-2014/3bHoEa.gif

4 года назад

Really good interview with Aris,thanks. Btw are you from Sweden you sound like a swedish when you talk English, just curious.

@TheSimChannel 4 года назад

I wish! I'm German, but looking for a job in Sweden ;-)

4 года назад

@@TheSimChannel Okay you speak english very well i have to say, if you can weld then there are jobs here 😉.

@TheSimChannel 4 года назад

@ thanks, I'm looking for data science / machine learning jobs though :-)

@garysmith3068 3 года назад

No chassis flex.....a few months later, chassis flex is in the sim.

@andersrasmussen3942 4 года назад

@The Sim Channel: Dude you looked stressed about that camera during the interview! But good work anyway and very interesting chat with Aris! 👍

@TheSimChannel 4 года назад

yeah the mic has its own off switch and I'm sometimes panicking a little when it's a one shot interview ;-)

@andersrasmussen3942 4 года назад

@@TheSimChannel haha well done then - I think you should have passed the camera to that annoying bald guy just standing by and interrupting anyway 😃 @GamerMuscle

@TheSimChannel 4 года назад

@@andersrasmussen3942 Right? Impolite RU-vidrs... :D

@OhItsThat 4 года назад

Whens AC2 coming?

@TheSimChannel 4 года назад

Nobody knows. I'm expecting multiple DLCs for ACC first.

@iseeq72 4 года назад

Smart guy, very interesting stuff... regarding chassis flex, my assumption is that it overall effects the driving behaviour of the car substancially. So I would not care if they „cheat“ it with simpler algorithms instead of having a car made of concrete and only suspension and tires modelled. In terms of overall driving behaviour, at the moment, iRacing with the v7 tires is far superior over pretty much every other sim, including ACC. Though I find the ACC GT3‘s more responsive&talkative as the one‘s in iRacing (still on older tire model). I only can compare to real Formula 4 driving behaviour (as I have driven that IRL), the v7 modelled cars (Skip barber or F3) are by a huge margin the one‘s with the highest similarity of how it feels in the sim, at least if you are on a highend dd-wheelbase.

@TheSimChannel 4 года назад

Very interesting comment, and I had the same thought about chassis flex before, i.e., better to cheat something in that approaches reality somehow, than to neglect the topic entirely. But that's rarely Kuno's approach. Regarding iRacing, I just bought the Dallara F3 last night, and it does feel pretty good so far, but I need to drive it on more tracks than just Lime Rock to really be able to comment on that. I'd be interested to hear about your F4 experience and what aspects of the driving feel you'd say iRacing has that others don't, etc.

@davidwright1605 4 года назад

I think you are wrong in your assumption. Race cars are designed to be stiff so that chassis and suspension flex have minimal effect on driving behaviour.

@rarewhiteape 4 года назад

Stiffness certainly does provide an advantage in high energy loads in a racing car, as it is easier to tune the handling if you have a consistent base to work from. But in the last 15 years there have been moves to introduce controlled flex in chassis design, where the chassis itself can be fine-tuned to assist in the handling. And if a chassis is too stiff it might even have an adverse effect on the handling. MotoGP teams were finding this out in the early 2000s, because motorcycles deal with cornering loads while leaned over and they have a perpendicular deflection that the suspension can't handle.

@erwinlommer197 4 года назад

Chassis flex is essentially making the chassis act like a very stiff spring. A spring that is not just about torsion but also flexing in other directions. The chassis flexes as a whole but also around each suspension pickup points depending all the loads coming in. This already makes it somewhat multi dimensional. But because a chassis is a spring you also have damping and oscillations to think about. It is not just misalignment of the front and rear of the chassis but the dynamic effects you create with that misalignment. Not just how much the chassis bends under certain load but how it as a spring snaps back. And there is also inertia. And considering the chassis is a big object in the car this chassis flex movement also moves the mass of the car. Essentially the mass of the chassis causes itself to flex in some cases in certain degree. Just imagine what all is going on when you drive over a big kerb at 150kph or how the chassis twists and flexes when going through karussell or suzuka esses. There is a lot of options for depth how to create chassis flex and how deep you want to go. You can just make a simple torsional misalignment that simple looks at tire forces and moves the suspension pickup points based on it. No modelling of inertias, dampenings or springyness. The lack of data is not just about how much the chassis flexes but all the other factors. Which of the factors matter and which don't really matter? Before simulating chassis flex at any level I think it would be better to focus on simulating the flex of the suspension component as that is one multitude bigger. For any road car for example bushing flex a ton. But essentially first you have tire flex, then suspension movement, then suspension flex and maybe then chassis flex. In the end anything that goes into a simulator is simplified. I think there are also some misconceptions about chassis flex. Often times I've seen people think that it is chassis flex when they see a car going through a corner with front or rear wheel slightly off the ground. No, that is just suspension. Chassis flex is a lot smaller and subtler.

@Leynad778 4 года назад

TM7 in iRacing just feels more like rFactor 2 nowadays and yes, it's more dynamic than ACC.

@danut05 4 года назад

Sausage flex, nobody knows :))

@mustaproductionsperez6726 4 года назад

Bad tyre model is bad Aris, regardless calculations and whatever comes into it

@wing0zero 4 года назад

Is it physics though, if car games had "real" physics then all the car games would play the same as the physics involved are a constant, it's more like a artists impression of physics, although some of it will be based on real equations I imagine. Still interesting video though.

@TheSimChannel 4 года назад

Well, it's obviously an approximation that will be off a bit here and there. Having all sims feel the same would be a dream come true, cause it would infact be a strong indicator that they figured it out ;)

@ArisDrives 4 года назад

Hi there. Just some additional information that you and other viewers might like. Car simulator "games" do have real physics, but as real as they can. There are aspects of car handling that are still unknown in all the details to the actual manufacturers. For example, many aspects of tyre behaviour, especially at extreme conditions over the limit, are unknown to the manufacturers. Aerodynamics, wind flow still can't be predicted 100% (heck physics scientists and mathematicians start to discuss that might not be possible AT ALL to solve such equations, not for cars, but generally... but that's another scientific region). Also not everything in a car is measurable and not everything is simulated. So each developer tries to push the envelope a little more everytime, but sometimes even tiny differences (on a tyre curve for example) can result in quite different feel. I can assure you that all sim devs when they get real data they feed them into their sims and "lock them". Then they try to do reverse engineering on the data they don't know, based on real telemetry and performance, but this is where "interpretation" influenced by personal experience, might come in. But there is no "artistic impression" for sure. Everybody is trying as hard as they can to get as realistic as possible and you can see how most important sims converge to simila behaviour. There are differences but they are mainly "feel" differences, not massive behaviour differences. As if you change tyres to your car, it might feel different, or it feels different from a hot day to a cold day etc.

@Rac3r20 3 года назад

@@ArisDrives is spot on. As a ride and handling engineer in the auto industry, this is true. Ride/handling is mind bogglingly complex when you get down into the weeds and there's almost no way to "fully" understand every aspect of a single car's performance, let alone dozens or hundreds. Even at the manufacturer, models and simulations are only approximations and are frequently quite far off. For context, a full 3D hydraulic model of a single shock absorber under a single condition can take many hours to run depending on the level of complexity. Extrapolate that to a detailed model of a full car under many different scenarios . . .