Rudi Ralla habe ich mir auch nur so gedacht........ im Vergleich zum Tatra sind die Reifen pralle voll ich finde übrigens, dass die höheren Vibrationen des Zetros von dem verwindungsfähigen Rahmen und das Allgemein deutlich geringere Leergewicht kommen.........
kto jazdil na Tatre a iných autách (je v podstate jedno na akých, ide o koncepciu) tak mu je jasné, že v tomto teste je úplne nepodstatný rozdiel cca 3-30% v tlaku pneu. Nie, že by to vobec nič nespravilo no rozdiel v jazdných vlastnostiach je tak dramatický, že nejaký tlak to nezachráni. Navyše na tom teste boli prítomný ľudia z MB tak tlak v pneu si zvolili oni. Ja som na tom polygóne jazdil už mnohokrát a raz aj na IVECOu 8x4 a celkovo som profesne odjazdil prakticky všetky značky dostupné v CZ a SK a to čo dokáže Tatra ma stále udivuje. Je to rozdiel niekoľkých tried. Ak bude mať Tatra open day alebo niečo podobné, doporučujem si to skúsiť. Vačšine čo v Tatre nesedeli amajú skúsenosť s inými autami, spolahlivo padá sánka
Yeah I have observed the same. To me it might have some inpact on vibrations, but check twisting of the frame on Zetros - Tatra alost no twist force - more stable...
Here's a tip: You want to build a rugged heavy duty off road truck that can go anywhere, carry a heavy load, and be dependable, then stay away from independent suspensions systems. There are reasons why just about every manufacturer of heavy trucks don't use them, especially the swing arm system of the Tatra. You want the track of the axles to stay the same regardless the angles they're at. You want the tires to stay parallel to each other even if one is off the ground. You don't want severe camber angle changes, or one tire having a positive and the other a negative camber. Yes , independent suspension has its advantages, but what are the disadvantages of the swing arm system of the Tatra? Top of the list is uneven tire wear, Ford experienced the same thing with their twin I-beam suspension which works on the same principle. So, unless the Tatra comes with adjustable air suspension, then the tires will experience camber changes from when the truck is empty to fully loaded as the springs compress. This doesn't happen with solid live axles. 2. too many moving parts. The simplicity, ruggedness, and dependability of solid axles is why they are favored over other systems. 3. Ease of repair. The one thing on off road truck that takes a lot of punishment is the suspension. And when it breaks, the simpler the system the easier it is to repair. 4. $$$$ Too expensive. With a set budget you're better off using the cheaper (and better) system, and using the savings to improve other parts of the truck (engine, trans, brakes, ect.)
+inTABELLARIUS Many other manufacturers than Tatra use independent suspension too. Each have their pro's and con's. Independent is much more stable especially at speed that may be a benefit in certain uses, like a fire truck, or military use. But of course live axles are simpler and might be more reliable, but that is not necessarily the case . . . Many other manufactures don't use these technologies because they are more complicate and difficult to manufacture. But all the time, more and more truck manufacturers are switching to independent suspension at certain use cases.
+offfiman Very nice. I'm talking commercial vehicles, and you're talking special applications like firetrucks and military vehicles. I'm not arguing against independent suspension, there's nothing better on road. So, back to my original statement..."...build a rugged heavy duty OFF ROAD truck...". More and more are switching? you mean like Mercedes? Scania? Volvo? Man? Renault? Isuzu? Hino? Mitsubishi? Ford? Peterbuilt? Freightliner? GMC? Kenworth? Western Star? Mac? You know the big boys, the trucks that truckers buy to haul freight all over. The vast majority of medium & heavy trucks you see on the road. Although independent suspension would improve the handling of these trucks, the main reason they use live axles is cost. If one switches to independent, it just gave its competitors an advantage in selling price.
***** Exactly in an OFF ROAD truck the independent suspension can be a benefit, because of it's stability and low unsuspended mass, but not in all use cases, only in special cases mentioned above. Like for example Tatra, their best and most famous trucks are exactly off road trucks in the first place, not on road trucks. On on road trucks, tatra doesn't have a chance, because the suspension they offer doesn't offer remarkable benefit in on road use. And why I was talking about the special cases is that, I understood that they were testing a new fire truck base in this video. So the test is about a special case. Yes, exactly cost is the reason why these are not more popular. And it depends of the application is it worth it. On normal off road use, where you aren't in a hurry and you can drive slower, the additional stability isn't worth it. So of course in that kind of case, the more expensive independent design is not worth it.
***** If you look at new truck designs built for off road use in the first place, a lot of them have independent suspension. Most of the vehicles are of course military designs, but in either case . . . And these mainstream western manufacturers build very little true off road trucks, they are mainly trucks for construction site, and trucks that drive most of the time on road. But that's enough for most uses and that'st most cost efficient.
Krásná práce unikátního tatrováckého podvozku s centrální rourou narozdíl od tuhé nápravy která nedokáže správně kopírovat terén a veškeré nerovnosti se přenáší na nástavby a kabinu a čímž se dost výrazně zhoršuje řiditelnost vozu. Je to krásně vidět na krutu, sinusovce a toto vše je v celku vidět na testu v terénu. To že se zdá že Tatra má podhuštěná kola je jen klam zdůvodu podkosení náprav což má zanásledek jízdu po hraně pneumatiky tím je její vyšší zatížení a větší provalení boků pneumatik.
The video might be a bit biased. Seems like the tyres on the Mercedes are pumped harder. However, Tatra is a more dedicated offroad truck than the Zetros. The Zetros is an "ordinary" road truck with 4x4 and a flexible chassis. Tatra is built different with a rigid chassis and swinging half axles. I was a bit surprised to find that it had leaf springs though. The Tatra should be compared to the MAN KAT SX, which is build with a rigid chassis and coil springs. I have a MAN L2000 4x4 and a MAN KAT1 4x4. First one being an "ordinary" truck with 4x4 similar to the Zetros. The latter one being a truck similar to the Tatra. And the ride is very different. And it is the same manufacturer.
still and still and still somebody make rubish about pressure in tyres. Bow trucks had same weight and same pressure in tyres!!!!! BUT Tatra has independent halfaxles and backbonetube and air suspension King Frame!!!!!! So all wheells have continual touch with surface, there is no torque of the truck frame and air suspension talk about all. SO you can se all wheels still under the truck load, so they looks like with lower pressure.
No, the major difference is in the construction of the chassis of the trucks. The independent swing half-axles on the tatra with air pressure suspension reduces vibrations and tilting to a large degree.
Mercedes always had and still have a good marketing. But the Zetros is not more than a "Building Axor/ Actros" with a special cab. In 2006 we had a MAN TGA 8x8 in Tunisia and after 1.000km on dashboard 1/3 of the frame screws were lost, 1/3 were not tighten any more. The bracket of the rear stabilisator was nearly gone. This truck was not in race. The same roads with a MAN KAT1 A1.1 (=SX) and a newby driver = no problems at all.
The flexibility is intentional & helps off-road. It keeps the wheels on the ground. It does look funny and it does hurt stability at higher speeds but I am not sure if that would be much of a factor in a truck.
Mercedes by far largest truck producer in the world.. Tatra went bankrup in 2013 and was sold for only $9million to a new US owner... Mercedes wins Tatra failed hard...
Tatra include the Czech Republic , Not Americe.Tatra produced only a contract for military, firefighters and police.Tatra falls downhill flips it and keep going . Mercedes would no longer start up . Additionally, Tatra Dakar is a race car . Tatra is simply the best .
I Think the Zetros can change the pressure also on the fly. I had a lot of shows and tests with Mercedes and the drivers of mercedes are often not experienced in Offroad. In the race scene we say: "with solid axles you need 1,5 the wheel travel of the independend Suspension to be at the same speed.
Těm je to jedno. Z jejich peněz to nešlo a obálka v kapse nesmrdí ;-) I tady na youtube je několik videí, kde přímo porovnávaj dvě verze hasičských aut. U hasičů-myslím těch, kteří tu techniku skutečně požívají svýma rukama, ne ty ve svátečních uniformách z recepcí a mejdanů-Tatra vítězí. Je nižší (=nemusím šplhat pro hadice atd), nekroutí se, nevyklepe z vás duši, menší riziko převácení (=nižší těžiště; netvrdím, že to převrátit nejde-jde to), projede tam, kam ukáže volant, ...
Esse caminhão muito bom pra trabalhar aqui no meu país que Maravilha a Mercedes Benz está de parabéns que Maravilha a Mercedes Benz devia doa um pra mim trabalhar
only for info, this Tatra is not ARMY special truck, it is only designed for generally using, army green color doesnt mean, that it is for army.. :D, this Tatra is build for firefighters. This video is about the test, which truck will be uses for czech firefighters, no more, no less... i know is hard to see, that Tatra from Czech republic is better like famous Mercedes from Germany, i am sorry but this is bitter sweet life! :D :D :D
Presne môj názor.Ved ten Zetros vyzerá naozaj ako keby sa mal každú chvílu rozsypať na kusy,Tatra cez tie hrboly len tak pláva ako lod na rozbúrenom mori,ale Tatrovácka koncepcia centrálnej rúry je tak výnimočná,že Tatra je kategoria sama o sebe a v kategorii terénnych nákladných vozidiel nemá konkurenciu......A tatrovákom prajem,aby sa im podarilo udržať a dalej vyvíjať a zlepšovať túto skvelú značku...............
both vehicles were loaded with 17 tons of weight and used recommended air pressure so stop bitching about different air pressure and admit the fact that backbone tube with half-axles will perform better in these types of tests BTW tatra can drive with missing wheel can any other military vehicle ride on 3 wheels?
They are both incredible trucks but I gotta go with the Mercedes because the solid axles & clearly more chassis flex give it more articulation. Just the fact that it is Mercedes you know it is made with more precision & better quality materials so it will last longer.
shananagans5 that what you see is not a flex in chassis but in frame. so no Mercedes wouldn't last longer but Tatra will. Just for example 40 year old Tatras are still in Service just watch some videos from Siberia and you will see what is Tatra capable of
Die Werte am Schluss glaube ich nun auch nicht. Mir soll das mal einer erklären, warum der starre Kasten des TATRA -der die Schläge nahezu 1/1 übertragen muss (Physik), gegen den gut gefederten und verwindungsfähigen Zertros, so gut abschneidet. Zumal die Geländetauglichkeit hier gar nicht gestestet wurde. Ich halte den TATRA nicht für ein schlechtes Fahrzeug, aber den Zetros aufgrund seiner fortschrittlichen Konstruktion deutlich überlegen. Das kann man in den Video auch sehen.
BANE Tire deformation was broadly similar between both trucks. You're seeing the difference between rigid axles and independently swinging axles. It's absolutely a given that cars with leaf axles have poorer performance over the bumps than cars with independent suspension. That's just a basic fact.
Captain Win From what I can see, with my own eyes, is that the Tatra did have lower tire pressure. But then, so what ? Maybe that's the factory standard ? It would be part of the test then. Besides, for a firefighting truck, capability is often more important than comfort. And lets be honest here. both trucks were top-notch on the rough roads they tested them on. Frankly, I would have had a hard time choosing between the two.
Grumpy ol' Boot The suspension determines how fast the vehicle can go over uneven ground and there's no point having a fire engine that can't get to a fire in time. Nothing goes as fast over rough terrain like a Tatra with air suspension.
Captain Win There are other considerations too, like the price, the reliability, the access to repairs, the capability to mount equipment on the truck, and so on. But yes, getting there is a big part of it, and frankly, both were very good in the rough stuff.
It doesn't really matter what this test shows or tries to show. Clearly the majority of people don't think the Tatra is the best truck or they would be using it everywhere. There's no big conspiracy against Tatra here. I assume Tatra is cheaper than Mercedes and MAN, since German autos generally aren't cheap, so something about them must have made the different armies feel the higher price was worth it. Governments don't like paying more than needed, so something must have turned people off the Tatra. If it was in fact better than Mercedes and MAN, the various armies would be using the Tatra instead. There's a reason they don't. I don't know what that reason is as I have not tested them, but obviously something made them not choose the Tatra.
Yeah, but stock Tatras never won a Dakar race. It's not even close to being the Tatra you can order. I have no idea what you mean by Central Europe or various armies, but I live in Europe, and I have never seen a single Tatra.. Anywhere. That's how common they are. Surely you'd see them all over Europe if they compared to Mercedes, MAN, Volvo etc. There's a reason you don't.
which stock truck won dakar???which stock truck is comparable to dakar special?? point was that Tatras are not some low-end trucks, they are pretty good n reliable...shit you recently said wud be applicable on any other truck brand...so, dfuck you just said?
painxxxl I don't think any stock truck ever won Dakar, but that's the whole point. A Dakar truck is completely different, so using Dakar as an example of why Tatra is better than MB is ridiculous and makes absolutely no sense.
i've never said that Tatra is better than MB, you are sayin that, not me...so take your shits together, all i wanted to say was (and im repeating myself) that Tatras are worthy trucks, with long tradition and are reliable too, many of 60 y/o Tatras are doing their job to nowdays without any failure, and are comparable to any other western Europe truck brand
I agree that the tire pressure seems to be a factor. they should have had that equal. both awesome, but tatra had some advantage with low air in tires.
Not really, tatra has air pressure pillows that reduce the vibrations due its unique chasis system. Thats why it reduces vibrations. (The funny story about it is that these trucks had really bad static seats but due to vibration reduces it was like in air suspended driver seat in modern road trucks)
BUCEK775: Z obecný teorie je vzcháč hlučnější. ALE u Tatry na tom tenkrát hodně zapracovali a to odhlučnění se pořád vyvíjelo. Teď je motor "OnAir" úhledná zahlazená a čistá kostka bez přečnívajících dílů, zlepšený proudění chladícího vzduchu. Všach stačí projet youtube a najít si všechny generace tater. Ty poslední jsou tišší, než tichej vysavač doma.
The tire pressure from the Tatra was lower than that of the Mercedes. So, not a fair test! My personal opinion is that the Tatra is more 'solid' than the Mercedes.
Já to nemůžu srovnat poslední tatra s kterou sem jel byla 148, někde sem četl že vzduchem chlazený motory sou hlučnější než vodou chlazený, taky tatra a jejich podvozky ale němci motory dělat uměj ale musí se oně člověk starat
chasis on every truck will bend on terrain like that except tatra's,because of specific chasis construction...but,on other terrains tire pressure is obviously too different.try on your car,deflate tyres on 1 bar and drive it offroad,then inflate on 3 bar and drive on same road and you will see the same difference as shown on these "test".
+HussiteWarrior yes but its where you put that weight thats important, plus if you pay attention to the ride hights you can tell that the Tatra was un loaded during parts of this video
Plus after checking the speeds m/per sec, in most cases the mercedes is doing these tests arround 50% faster in the last one at 15kmh it is actually travelling at 27kmh
In the middle 90's MB in passanger section fired their best engineers and Hyundai hired them at the spot. MB went down and angle "H" has had improved. That why legendary quality and engineering of MB is controversial. Up to middle of the 90's MB used to make best quality vehicles...
Not only is the tire pressure is too high for the front axle load but also and mainly the spring equipment used is not correct for the application as a kipper.The Zetros tested was equipped with a 9t front spring and a 9t rear spring. As a dump truck of this type would have to be forward a 7.5t spring and back an 10 5t spring used.The tire pressure for 7.5 t forward is naturally lower and therefore the tyres and the springs would work much better. A zetros in the used kondition hat a maximum load on front from 6,5t. The correkt loaded zetros ist exact horizontal und not like the zetros in the test with a hanging rear end. The zetros ist overloaded on the rear end what you also con see on the rear tyres. The test was so not correkt. The zetros had under the used conditions no chance.
I like tatra but this test wasn't fair as the tire pressures of the Mercedes was far higher compared to the other making it look bad on most of the test roads
Siempre hay que tener en cuenta la cantidad de presión de inflado que recomiendan las fabricas de neumáticos y las terminales automotrices, Lo que vemos nosotros a la distancia escon respecto al inflado de los neumaticos es engañoso y poco importa, hay que respetar lo que indique el fabricante del neumático y fabricante automotriz para cada uso
The Mercedes has solid axles, TATRA has independent suspension. This is why the TATRA handled the rough terrain better. It has nothing to do with the tier pressure.
Tatra can change the pressure of the wheels from the cockpit. That adds more traction with low pressure and add some more softness to roll over bad terrain
Wo alle anderen LKW nicht weiterkommen, fängst Tatra erst an. Das Konzept bewährt sich seit über 80 Jahren und es ist das Beste was es in Sachen Geländetauglichkeit gibt! Nur hat es gegen die " Großen " Hersteller keine Lobby. Wer einmal Tatra im Baustellenverkehr gefahren ist ( egal ob 138, 148 oder 815 ), der weiß was Vortrieb ist. Ich durfte den neuen Tatra Phönix mal fahren. Leider nur auf der Straße. Mehr hat der DAF-Händler nich erlaubt. Er weiß warum!
majo412 Ich hatte auf einer Offroad-Tour das Vergnügen den Tatra Phoenix, den wir als Transporter und Schlammretter benutzt haben, fahren zu dürfen. Es ist ein super Fahrzeug, das den Land Rovern, die wir dabei hatten, oft den Arsch gerettet hat. Im Gelände ist er super. Aber: Den Unimog, den wir als Bergefahrzeug dabei hatten würde ich nicht gegen einen Tatra tauschen wollen. Egal gegen welchen. Die Geländegängigkeit des Unimog, konnte der Tatra nicht überbieten. Trotzdem würde ich, wenn ich nochmal eine solche Tour machen würde unbedingt wieder einen Phoenix dabei haben wollen.
Lern erstmal deine Sätze zu beenden und mit Inhalt zu füllen: Zitat: "Übrigens bin ich einer firma die, die elektronik für leo, puma, pzh2000 ect....baut!" Du bist die Firma? Interessant, Kotzt du dann die Produkte aus dem Mund aus oder scheisst du sie aufs Fließband?
still and still and still somebody make rubish about pressure in tyres. Bow trucks had same weight and same pressure in tyres!!!!! BUT Tatra has independent halfaxles and backbonetube and air suspension King Frame!!!!!! So all wheells have continual touch with surface, there is no torque of the truck frame and air suspension talk about all. SO you can se all wheels still under the truck load, so they looks like with lower pressure.
bullshit, do you heard anything about patented backbonetube undercarriage Tatra system and patented King frame suspension???? That is Tatra´s advantage!!!! And the video is absolutely clear proof of superiority of the original patented Tatra concept, that is way they made the video on Tatra testing polygon near Tatra factory. Aby truck with conventional frame undercarriage like zetros are inferior to Tatra truks, patented backbonetube concept Tatra uses since 1920s...
When Siberia ..._ Tatra Kamaz or when the desert alone Tatra, when the Arctic Circle _ Tatra, when in extreme terénu_ Tatra.No exist better mass produced truck, maybe one ... Praga V3S ... here borrowed by the American military in Operation desert Storm where their cars have failed ..kde other end cars (Mercedes, Man, etc ....) Tatra begins:-)
vasile ion They can, because they have central tire inflation system that they started using in late 40's. Driver can change pressure 'on the go'. I doubt that Zetros have it.
I cannot help myself, it looks like the MB Zetros would be faster in almost every test... that does not mean I prefer one of them - just two different concepts... and: the 45° ramp is impressive, isn't it?
It's not only the lower tire pressure the Tatra had, it seems like the Tatra is loaden with much more weight compared to the empty Zetros with higher tire pressure. Keep that in fact please.
wodanowitz nonsense both are on full load but tatra has much better suspension system just search somthing about beckboune tube frame with interpendent halfaxles..... Tatra will be always better in terrein amd rought roads but mercedes will be better on aspahalt.. Btw this test was done by firefighters(u cen see firefighter uniforms in the cab of mercedes) so talking something about that Tatra was biased is nonsense.
I agree look after the tires of the tatra they seems nearly to be flat! the weight of this koloss must be even higher too so its behavier is very calm! Maybe the engine is powerfull but to what price??How many liters does it need??
Peter Plöhn außerdem ist der Zetros deutlich leichter und der verwindungsfähige Rahmen ist auch nicht zu vergessen.. weniger Gewicht=besser im schweren Gelände...... verwindungsfähiger Rahmen=besser im schweren Gelände......
Tatra is offroad special which can also drive on normal street. MB is street truck with superb offroad capability. If i need to transport nitroglycerin I will choose Tatra 100% but in all other cases I will compare other capabilities...
zase další debílek, co zvatlá o podhuštěnějch penumatikách. Zkus si něco zjistit o tatrováckém podvozku s nosnou rourou a nezávisle zavěšenými výkyvnými polonápravami a porovnejsi tenhle koncept s běžným žebřinovým rámem.
and here is video from filming the series, where tatra should roll from hill and destroy, it is older type from late 50s but watch that it can take...watch?v=95500qincoY
12 лет назад
that and the fact that the Tatra has independent suspension.
agree, totally staged...mercedes might even be over-inflated, just to make sure it looks bad and very uncofortable on those paved roads, while tatra tyres are deflated to very low, absorbing most of the vibrations... not to mention lack of traction on the inclined surfaces
On gravel roads with dashboard etc. Tatra will always bee one of the best, together with the MAN SX. (not more available in 4x4) TATRA doesn't have much belly clearance because of the backbone, this might be a problem over steep steps, you can see this also at the Dresden-Breslau Rally where Tatras sometimes have troubles to come out of a river because the tube is sitting on the river bank. The small Pinzgauer with also backbone ist better because it's using portal hubs und the tube is higher.
The tire presure make big diferent(sometime if I need to cross something like big snow/mad -I decrease presure..it help a lot), of course change presure make suspension softer or tought.. Maybe have same presure, maybe not..I dont know, but it is hard to see becaulse Tatra have all half axles -when wheel was downer like axel, he are not at one line with road, this mean it is look like "small presure". But dont care about graph, who have better control and resistance at very hard off-road?
And by the way there is no doubt that tatras aksels are better in many ways but a stiff aksel might last longerer and are most likely cheaper to make/mantain
Dear Anglos and " Muericans" the Tatra can regulate its Pressure from inside the Cabin,that is maybe the important Point,plus not to forget,in its Class is Tatra the absolute Champion in Truck-Trial,as the Unimog is in his Class..
No manufacturer is making a comparison that makes their own brand look bad, if the tatra system is so good they would have sold it to all the other truck manufacturers or what?
Auch beim Mercedes kann ein von innen bedienbares Teil zur Reifendruckregulierung eingebaut werden . Dass die Russen oder auch andere osteuropäische Länder diese Technik verwenden hat natürlich erhebliche Vorteile im Gelände ,Winter ,Schnee etc. Was das optische Betrifft sieht der Tatra aus wie das hässliche Entlein , Für solche Tests müssten immer beide Fahrzeuge mit gleicher Grundtechnik ausgestattet sein !
bere5de bullshit, do you heard anything about patented backbonetube undercarriage Tatra system and patented King frame suspension???? That is Tatra´s advantage!!!! And the video is absolutely clear proof of superiority of the original patented Tatra concept, that is way they made the video on Tatra testing polygon near Tatra factory. Aby truck with conventional frame undercarriage like zetros are inferior to Tatra truks, patented backbonetube concept Tatra uses since 1920s... Still and still and still somebody make rubish about pressure in tyres. Bow trucks had same weight and same pressure in tyres!!!!! BUT Tatra has independent halfaxles and backbonetube and air suspension King Frame!!!!!! So all wheells have continual touch with surface, there is no torque of the truck frame and air suspension talk about all. SO you can se all wheels still under the truck load, so they looks like with lower pressure.
+pestivetme ATTENTION ! This comment is a robot. I have seen exact words copy pasted 3-4 places within this thread. Trust your mind and decide for yourself. Do not listen to me or anybody else. People are paid to advertise by writing seemingly realistic comments on RU-vid Videos.
bere5de yeah this test isnt worth a penny thets why it was done by firelighters (u can sew uniforms in the cab of zetros(. Because they were choosing new vehicles.. Dont talk shit
