Tavelo Arow - Not ready. 

You can measure my bore any time with your gauge

I better chime in here or people will think there's a conspiracy or I'm butt-hurt. I recently visited PT in the UK (after he recorded this video.) and we spent LOTS of time talking about his Tavelos. We even recorded a podcast about it for his channel - which will come out soon I assume. Go into more detail there, but, a summary of my view: I support PT's video. He seemingly got rush-job frames from Tavelo and that's on Tavelo, not him. His frames were sent to him direct from Tavelo, not Panda Podium. My personal Arow had an undersized BB, and the headset clamp is a pain in the ass to install, but other than that, none of the issues PT had. Jesse and GC's frames also seem to be similar to mine. Anyway, brands should never rush frames, regardless of who they're being sent to. Needless to say PandaPodium QC will be paying extra attention to the areas PT had problems. (Full disclosure... I haven't actually watched PTs video... but he described his problems to me in person.)

Thank goodness for PT in this age of youtube. I've seen a number of "trusted" reviewers sing nothing but the charms of this bike.

You know what Chris & Jesse will be talking about this week

I *love* the fact rhat wheeltop said no to you, tells me everything i need to know about that brand. Thanks for everything you do.

how can i trust you when you have a flowery table with no princess blanket

Respect for this honest review!

"Heavy is good, heavy is reliable." Also, "Too tight? You could land a jumbo fucking jet in there!"

I had a similar issue with Scott with one of their RC frames: BB hole being too small/"egg shaped". Scott bikes NZ importer didn't want to pay for postage of frame to inspect it. I drove to their office and had to guide them through testing process of BB area. It was ridiculous. Main brands fudge up too and not that seldom. Great content anyhow. Creative work desk blanket and workshop background is high on the agenda.

Had the same headset cap/cover issue on my Tavelo Attack. The cap rubbed on the top of the headtube which caused rubbing, and basically locked up the handlebars once pre-loaded. I had to sand down the bottom side of the top cap to create clearance on the frame. I would have hoped Tavelo fixed this issue almost 1 year later.

"When I finger it like that, you know get one in and if you are lucky you get two in without a bit of grease" Think I've heard that in another setting 😂🤣

This looks like an excellent value provided one’s time is nearly worthless and you happen to have manufacturing and engineering experience.

🧨 Tune into The NERO Show Ep. 96 this Thursday for a full breakdown and discussion ☕

Damn.. An honest review rather than all the rubbish floating around youtube. Charging these sort of money but giving out such crap quality is crazy

PeakTorque and Hambini are like my version of Gamers Nexus and derbauer in the tech field, I like you guys both for the analytical assessment of stuff, but I go to LTT/LMG (in my bike terms Trace Velo, Nero Show, and Jasper and other content creators) for the easily digestible information. I can't fkn wait for the new ep of Nero Show covering this review. Love you all guys for what you're doing to the cycling RU-vid sphere! Keep it coming! edit: add buildzoid, Patrick Lino, Dave Arthur to the analogy but I know you guys already get it

Thanks for the video PT. Beautiful reaming. I had a similar issue with the d-shaped expander bung and headset stack on my Cervelo R5. It’s insane to me that these parts can be manufactured this far out of spec. Appreciate the service to the community with this review.

What timing! Right after that shop owner in Florida dropped a glorifying review 😂 (with a affiliate link included, of course)

Disliked by Jesse Coyle😜

I support PT's viewpoint. My original Tavelo Attack frameset (which I paid for) also was a rush job order it seems. Something that Joe from Panda Podium discussed with me. I even addressed those critiques in my own video breakdown. It's very frustrating. The good news is as a complete bike build, the Tavelo Attack is fantastic to ride. Potential issues aside I don't doubt the new Arow frame will be also fantastic out on the road. But as a paying customer those issues cannot be overlooked. Hopefully these are just growing pains from Tavelo, and they can turn it around.

this is what we want, the honest review

This is why I subscribe to this channel. Looks like a total crap frame in its current iteration.

Best buildreview ever! Finally someone with knowledge telling what to expect.

Great analysis that we cant get anywhere else, keep up the great work

Just give me a round 27.2 seatpost and a round steerer with traditional stem and handlebar which just works. I don't even care if I have a few cables catching the air. Anything to stop all this extra finnicky not well thought out complication, and future headaches when everything is corroded, and stuck inside the frame and falls apart when one tries to remove it. And then sending away overseas for replacement proprietary parts if they're even still available by then.

Thanks for being unapologetically honest! Appreciate your content and hope other "influencers" can learn from you and do the same rather than be "bribed" with free or discounted stuff.

Spent all the budget on EPS molding, apparently...finish hardware is whatever the local market had.

Whole bunch of forum members are going to have hurt feelings hearing from you that spacer stacks reduce the stiffness of front ends. Chapeau.

So, instead of the Chinese brands driving the western prices down, the Western brands are driving the Chinese prices up. Nice.

@PeakTorque ! You are the go to channel for calling out the crap that EVERYONE tries peddle. Good on ya, mate! Keep calling out the good and the bad.

Bro, your written Chinese is excellent (for technical writing). It looks better than much better than google translate. I'm surprised. Well done.

This crap should not even cost 1000$

Finally a honest review on bikes from a guy who really know what he's doing. Legend.

China direct 15 years ago had similar short fall in finish and components needing fettling in the build but they were cheap (1/4 the price) so you just did it and were happy enough. 4 times the price with improvement being eps mould and better paint only not good enough... It's moved into a higher level of expectation...

What's disheartening is not that this is another Beta test product, it's that former Winspace staff should know better. No one is learning anything in the Far East with startup projects.

What a piece of shit. They just need to charge a couple of thousand dollars more and they are a direct competitor for Cervelo.

Just did a bike race in thailand and the representation of chinese bikes and groupsets was wild. They are performing as good as any other brand.

11:35 I'd challenge you about carbon dust being not particularly dangerous. There's really not enough respiratory health research out there on it specifically, but if you look at it under a microscope at a suitable magnification, you'll see long fibres with quite jagged edges, which look suspiciously like wood, asbestos and and silica particles (PM 0.5 - PM 10), all of which can cause long-term, sometimes fatal, lung disease. Err on the side of caution, and use a HEPA vacuum with a nozzle and mini extraction hood to suck up as much of it as you can. And a mask. And some glasses. And a smock.

Good to see someone doing an honest review.. this frame is certainly doing the RU-vid round watched it GC performance this morning who obviously loved it $$.. it’s like the Wheeltop EDS group sets.. love the QC comment 😅😅 Pete 🚴🏻👍

About time someone stops leading buyers on with a good quality review that's objective and not just taking the $$$ for a good review.

It would be nice to see such a detailed reaming on Seka's frames. Because they charge about 2500€ for the frame only and another 370€ for the integrated handlebar, which is a lot for a Chinese brand. Hopefully they have much better QC than a Tavelo, but few youtubers like you will be able to show the real picture.

Interesting ascent bottom bracket, please let us know if it holds up against the hambini ones

Oh, man. The next Nero Show is going to be entertaining.

Nice to see a solid review on this product. It looks like they have some work to do. I hope they take your feedback and improve thier product. Ps, you are making hambini's pen looks soft after this reaming!

Can you do top of the line cro-mo frame and material analisys?

What's the total production time of a frame like this? The whole thing start to finish. How long does it take to measure the BB and sort it accordingly?

was the “it’s too tight” in the headset shim demo a subtle reference to Tyrone parking outside the bookie’s?

That colorway is actually sick as hell

What size tyres did you fit on the rim brake tcr?!

Alex, with all of those issues, what is the chances of the disc brake mounts being square, I wont be dropping circa 1500 of my head earnt on one

Rewatching this. Gods work Keep it up PT

Tavelo Official Response to Peak Torque Concerns Peak Torque Concerns I have some more issues about the engineering: 1. The bb shell is slightly undersized (40.87 to 40.92) but i will confirm a more accurate measurement 2. The fork expander is very tight in the fork (even when loosened bolt) 3. The black steerer shim does not fit in the gap. Too tight 4. The seat post wedge clamp edges arrived damaged and are very sharp. They have damaged the seat-post. I always mention in videos that sharp corners that clamp on carbon need to be smoothed and chamfered on the engineering drawings. 5. The one-piece headset top cap has too much friction and is difficult to preload. A separate bolt and cap would be better in my opinion. Tavelo’s Response: We would like to extend our gratitude to Alex for his time and thorough review of our Tavelo AROW frame set. Although the initial impressions of his two early production framesets were not entirely satisfactory, we have since addressed several of the issues he highlighted. Additionally, we are incorporating many of the constructive suggestions he mentioned in his video for further improvements. We take Alex’s feedback seriously and are committed to refining our product based on his valuable insights. 1. The production of Peak Torque’s frames was expedited to ensure the quickest delivery. However, this haste led to a lapse in quality control, particularly in the bottom bracket (BB) area. Improperly fitted BB covers allowed leakage of the transparent curing putty, which, once hardened, behaves like epoxy resin. (This putty is applied after sanding off the mold release agent and serves as a paint primer.) The leakage compromised the BB area, leading to potential issues with tolerances and shape. To address this, we now use properly sized rubber sleeve covers for the BB area, preventing contamination of the BB surfaces. Our updated mass production process includes a 100% inspection of all installation surfaces to ensure they meet the required tolerances. Additionally, regarding our supplied Bottom Brackets - we have worked with our BB supplier to implement rigorous tolerance and quality control procedures, preventing future complications with their products. 2. This issue arises from the O-ring on the expander, which necessitates high design accuracy. We aim to maintain a precise fit; however, if the installation is performed according to the provided instructions, the process should remain straightforward without complications. To enhance aerodynamic performance and achieve a sleeker head tube profile, we opted for a D-shaped steer tube. This decision necessitated the design of a custom D-shaped expander plug. The expander requires a specialized installation process, which we will detail in a comprehensive "User Instruction Manual" to facilitate proper installation and disassembly. 3. We were not anticipating any tolerance issues with the CNC steer shim from our supplier. Unfortunately, as Alex discovered, the shim was oversized. We have since addressed this by implementing a rigorous testing process to ensure each shim fits correctly. 4. As Alex noted, the seat post wedge was damaged during shipment, resulting in sharp edges on the wedge,the damage of BB plastic shell was also damaged during shipment.We have since enhanced our packaging to better protect all components during transit, ensuring they arrive in perfect condition and preventing similar issues in the future. 5. Future frame-sets will be shipped with two-piece headset cap & bolt, as well as the one-piece unit.Using one-piece headset cap requires adding grease according to "User Instruction Manual".

“When i finger it like that” had to turn the sound down in the office after that!!!! Come on man! 😂

i spent more time reading the comments here than watching the video... Dear Lord.... 🤐

gc performance left the chat...

Having built up 2 bikes from Velobuild a few years ago, it's the components and buildability that let these frames down, a lot. Comparing them to the frame components on my Cannondale and Canyon, they're just utter crap and manufactured from extra heavy, extra soft steel. 'Anyone' can make a 'good' frame these days, but just don't look too close, look at the pretty shape and the pretty colours.

No way I will ever buy a frame like that

What is that handlebar on black bike?

What’s hilarious is my Ceccotti C-20 (Exactly replica of Tarmac SL6 DM Rim Brake) has been a dream to ride and straight forward to build. Outside of needing to clean the threads of the direct mount brake studs and clean out the paint from the bonded cable guides for the rear brake, everything went together pretty seamlessly. They let me choose the layup of carbon for ride feel and full custom color, my aftermarket SL6 sworks post fits exact, my ceramic speed SL6 bearings fit exact, my SWorks stem and bars went together perfectly on their steer tube. At $360 for everything Frameset related and a 3 year warranty, it’s funny how many issues higher priced Chinese brands have. Just food for thought

I occasionally dip in to see what's happening with modern bikes. Its intriguing. But it makes me appreciate me 2013 Planet X pro carbon 105 rim brake. Round seat post. Plain 1 1/8th" steerer. Threaded BB. C2W scheme job. £1000 RRP at the time. No internal routing. Even has exposed runs of inner cable on the outside! Its a medium, and it's TINY! Gets down the road well enough for me. Easy to service. The only worry is the availability of 10speed stuff. You can argue it's not AS high performance. I'd argue diminishing returns for such a majority of actual riders.

Nothing like a good RU-vid beef! Love it Face off on the Nero show next week! It’s actually great to see cycling RU-vidrs interacting like this and also sharing honest thoughts and experiences even if they see things a bit different. Hopefully no one is permanently But hurt, that would be a shame.

I love your righteous indignation

Thanks for sharing your wisdom and experience. FWIW the "QC" seems much like a Chinese frame I built up. Lots of fettling, machining and compromise to get it to work. That was with a cheaper Chinese frame. Dare I mention the last 4 digits of the frame # spells FOOL 😢

Thanks for the warts and all video.

Elves Falath PRO not EVO walks all over this frame for quality and performance. £784 in rim option simply cannot be beaten.

"Holds its stiffness for a long time" 🤣🤣🤣

Any clue who the OEM is? I'm eyeing a very similar looking frame just released from Speeder (SC-R55D), though it has SRAM UDH and a round steerer with the FSA ACR system. Also, any words on the seatpost clamp? Is it compatible with the Ritchey hardware like 3T and Wilier are doing?

at 9m40s, my wife choked on her coffee......

Chief bike industry buster at work with Princess blanket counterpart - never stop what you're doing!

COMMENTING TO SAY ALL MY FEELINGS ABOUT 1-PIECE EXPANDER BUNGS HAVE BEEN VALIDATED THANK YOU

if you strip the TA perm threads of the frame would a helicoil repairable be feasible? thinking out loud.

That bike build looks like a nightmare. I had to hone out an undersized bb on my bike. But it was like $300 on Chain Reaction and from a random Belgian brand that went out of business. For ~$2000 I’d expect much better.

Ok I get they say they rushed out PTs frames, but not to other RU-vidrs..just PT got the rushed out bike seemingly…. Did the manufacture know anything about PT at all! If I’m sending a bike frame to this man its 100% definitely IS NOT the rushed out the factory quick bike frame😂😂. It’s a very good point PT makes at the start of the video, these days there is little between these mass market carbon framesets when it comes to ride feel etc, it’s more down to how it builds up and the perceived quality. If you sell it as a frame only, you know your customers are going to see all the quality pros and cons as they build up the frame.

where is chinacycling ? we need a official rebuttal

I am curious how a Gusto Evo Cobra would compare in build quality to to this frame...

What handlebars are on that rim brake tcr? Those look sweet. Like the Coefficient bars without the computer mount. I would love to get one if it isn't $400 lol

What are the CliffsNotes? 34 minutes is a bit much.

ok, BUT, as a ''zoom out'' note, I really value the beauty of the multipart piece that goes into the fork tube. I understand everything you say and you're right of course, I just wanted to make a stop and appreciate that part : )

Shocking!.....they really just don't care.

Thanks, so much for making this video. I had been looking at Chinese frames. Wondering how well they were made. Now I know. Dog sh1t, don't you know.

very good show case of the actual cost come with those smaller brand frames, still good value?

Yikes. Good thing mine hasn't shipped yet. My last "branded" bike was a rim brake Liv Langma (because TCRs are MAN bikes that only come in MAN sizes) with that awful non-chamfered TCR seatpost clamp that predictably kept eating seatposts. And as if that wasn't enough everything else is crap too? Amazing.

I wonder how you will eliminate the play from the headset. Have similarly designed chineese frame and in my case play and audible knock was present when hit the brakes and pulled the bike back and forth. Reason was this metal C-ring that you put on the top bearing had like 0.5mm play against the steerer tube. I put a tape on the steerer tube to eliminate that.

Hold on - not mechanical compatible? Screw it. Reminds me quality wise to my $400 velobuild frame. Too tight bb area to fit a proper bb into. Plus many other things like rear wheel not being in the center axis of the bike, and many things more.

Flipping pressfit BBs - Have you ever had issues with the threaded ones that are stuck into the frames?

They didn't QC the model name. They're gonna QC the bike?

Watched the Gc Performance video and was impressed, maybe not so much now

In general, that's why I'm still sticking to things like Campy/Corima/Roval/FFWD/DT wheels vs "modern" Chinese sets. Whenever I feel tempted to buy one, I just do a quick search on hub issues and the temptation instantly goes away. As for frames, with the new-gen Chinese frame prices, I would just rather pick a Giant and sort out the BB preemptively (if needed). The quick iteration of all these wheels, frames etc. doesn't leave enough room for properly established and executed QA.

Thanks PT i almost bought one of those framesets but now i changed my mind.

watching Jesse / Nero sputtering thru a butthurt rebuttal is just entertaining af

Can someone explain how they can hope to make these frames to such fine tolerances when they’re basically inflatable 3D jigsaws ?

Does it hold its speed tho??

This is really sad, actually. Was hoping to get this frame.

What's the name of the handlebar on his TCR?

Lol PT you crack me up mate, keep it up, appreciate your effort into your vids.

And i was so looking forward to this frame 🫣

This is why I've lost respect for the Nero show it's turned into a smaller GCN

This video went on for far too long. Should have stopped at the BB part, to much effort to fix a shitty build. Sending back….next!

The price of these "top tier" frames and wheels and the lack of finishing is borderline them trying to create a cash grab product. These brands need to understand their niche' which is for arguement sake $900-$1500 products and at that price, these issues are somewhat acceptable but when you are starting to release products that match established brands in price and have these "rookie" QC slipups, its just not going to fly. I'd say for anyone wanting a high-end frame out of China that justifies the price, what for the XDS (X-Lab) Astana bike release for the tour and buy that because that frame will be worked on by world tour mechs and riden by world tour riders and I dont think either will accept shoddy QC.

Chinese are trying to push premium prices when big brands are actually cutting prices. You can get a SL8 Pro Frame for 2800 Euros

You can walk into a Giant shop, get a better bike for cheaper. If there is an issue with it, Giant will warranty it and make you happy.