i know this video is old but if youre still out there can you please make a follow up video. id love to see you go even more in depth about any mods you have done, showing the process of removing the pcbs from the modules etc. really anything more you can go into detail on with it would be amazing and much appreciated. it would also be a really good additional resource for those of us who are part of the teac model 5/3 cult! snobs on gearsplats etc are full of it, these are amazing and the same level of quality would cost you an arm and a leg these days. really appreciate this video and your work, thanks.
The Tascam M series (320B, 312B, 308) are really fantastic boards and built like tanks. They can bet totally good sounds and the EQ is great. I ran a small home studio off a 320b for about 6 years and kinda regret selling it. Old Tascam is better than people think for sure.
I just found one of these for sale that I am thinking about purchasing. I currently own the Model 2a and Model 3, both I have recapped and installed OpAmps from Sparko's and discrete voltage regulators. Modding this unit will be so much easier. I know a guy in a very high end studio that has one that he modded. He went WAY out and added Cinemag transformers, custom OpAmps and modded the PSU. It sounds amazing. He tracks drums and vintage synths through it. Musicians request it more than the API board he has that cost 10x more. I think a lot of people slept on these back in the day. Thanks for the overview.
You’re welcome. The thing is, once you significantly modify the power supply, and swap in boutique transformers and opamps, it’s really no longer a Teac Model 5, you know what I mean? But that plays into my point a little, that the *physical* design of the Model 5 series is robust and a great platform for mods, if you’re into that, it’s just that (very much) results will vary, and to also consider one might be perfectly happy with the console the way it sounds stock, you know? It’s important to drive it around for awhile and get to know it before just assuming A. it has to be changed, or B. it’s at all the ticket stock or modded, period.
Hello Cyorkgo, sorry to bother you , but do you know what opamps your friend used ? Was it discrete also? Do you know what model cinemag transformers he used ? Also did he mod the eq Any? Thank you for any and all help ! Best Ethan
I got one of these for $50 and I'm in love! I can't believe it has modular tracks like that. My purpose is to warm up synths and use this as a preamp for my Fostex R8 8track. I also like doing feedback loops and making noise, and doing lofi things like recording onto crappy tapes and whatnot. Thanks for the vid!
A mixer like that would cost a small fortune to build today. My old Teac Model 15 console has 20 times the solid build quality as my API Legacy Console. Of course if the API was built as good as the TEAC you could only move it with a large forklift. All those transformers put some weight on it but the TEAC frame and chassis is better build quality than the newer API.
Yeah, my experience is products generally gravitate toward design changes that favor lower cost manufacturing. And where they don’t the cost is considerable.
I love these things. I recently reorganized my studio to have two of them feeding a pair of old Digi 888's (jumpered to -10db,) 16 channels direct into PT, and four busses into an A-3440. For all the comments about these sounding "dark" or "not pro," I've read in forums, the direct outs are punchy and clean to my ear. Plus they look great! Perfect 70's "dad" vibe..
I remember absolutely drooling over the 888 when it was current product. That sounds like a fun setup. The “dark” or “not pro” sentiment is probably related to the 4558/4559 being used in the 5A/5B. These are an earlier opamp with lower slew rate and bandwidth, and they don’t have a lot of drive, and Teac used them as the direct driver for those direct outs…this gets an upturned nose from a fair amount of echelons of critics. I think if you are driving a high-impedance -10dBv input, they are fine. If you are driving a 600R +4 or even 0dBu input, well, it won’t work so well. So…YMMV…but that may be why it gets a bad rap. But I am still impressed with the frame design, PCB layouts, and appreciate the simple signal path. And if it is working for YOU I’m not sure what else matters.
This is such an awesome video! Would you be willing to share any thoughts on what other Tascam/Teac mixers you think are the best to service? Or, which ones you enjoy using the most. Thanks Mr. Sweetbeats!
Just browse my channel. You’ll find videos from the past 14-15 years that highlight the Tascam M-500 series, Tascam M-300 series, the Tascam M-106, Soundtracs MX-32, Studer 928…maybe others.
Are you ever going to do a follow up to this video???? You talked about changing out some of the capacitors with "better" modern day caps & the like. Great video by the wayside.
Q: I am going to look at a used Model 5. How can I tell which version of Model 5 I am looking at, is it labeled anywhere externally or is there a certain internal signifier I should look for. Thank you for any answer.
I’m looking into buying a vintage mixing board … are these able to plug into a Mac computer somehow? Or into another interface that goes into the computer and still get the same results ? Thank you
Hi. Ideally you would want to obtain an audio interface to go between the analog console and the computer. This can be as basic as a 2 channels in and 2 channels out type interface, or multi-channel up to however many channels you need to or want to input and output to/from the computer at a time. By “get the same results” do you mean capture any analog artifacts the Teac console might impart? If so, yes, whatever the signal sounds like at the input of the interface is what will be captured in your DAW software when you record, but keep in mind the higher the resolution, bit rate and quality of your converters, the better job that will do of retaining what’s at the input when it’s converted. My experience is something gets lost in translation if you use a bottom budget interface at 44.1kHz/16-bit, vs something at least “middle shelf” and for sure 24-bit. The sampling frequency is (arguably) less critical in my experience than 16 vs 24-bit resolution, but most interfaces go way above 44.1/48kHz sampling frequency these days anyway. Since consumer sample rate is 44.1kHz I tend to use multiples of that when selecting sample rate; 44.1, 88.2, 176.4…
Hi I’m thinking of getting a 5b just started out with hardware, I have some old 12bit sampler racks etc and would love this desk.. I would love to make instrumental hip hop etc maybe a bit of dub.. would this mixer be ok for that and would it add some character to the sound ? Thanks
Your only way to answer that question is to try it out. You and I can’t have the same definition of “character”, don’t have the same ears, goals, opinions…so I can offer information but you have to understand it means nothing to you because it’s all subjective and relative. What I will say is more contemporary mixers are designed to be more neutral and transparent. The Teac Model 5 series will not be like that. They’re also not going to be magical just because they are old. And they don’t have a lot of headroom, and they don’t have much of any output drive. But all the opamps are the 4558 (4559 on the 5B), so it will be noisier and dirtier than something more contemporary, not gobs, but you might be able to tell. Probably the biggest advantage of the Model 5 series for your ideations is the fact the mic amps are transformer balanced. The transformers are not great. But maybe for what you want to accomplish they might be good. So you could pad the mic inputs for your line sources and probably get quite a bit of dirt or crunch there. You’ll have an easier time getting an older school darker dirtier sound out of something like the Model 5 series. I don’t know if that’s what you want, or if for sure the Model 5 series is the answer, but to say it another way you won’t get a Model 5 series sound out of a more contemporary console. And you’re not going to have clean transparent sound with the Teac. And the outputs are driven straight off of 4558s…relatively low drive…like it would be easy to get them to start breaking up. So that might be a tool you’re looking for.
Sure do wish ya'd do a follow-up on this mixer. Did you ever try using it or replacing some of the caps?? I'd love to see you mess around with it hooked up to a Teac A-3440.
Sorry to disappoint but I fixed it up and sold it for a very fair price to somebody who was going to put to good work years ago...so no follow up videos planning for the Model 5 series.
So is it an A or a B? I recently just got an 5A at a good price from a government education facility (i was middled) and stumbled upon your video. I must say for never turning the thing on to see if it even works you did an amazing visual anilyzation. I had to turn it on and and twist knobs, some of the phrasing was foreign to me. PGM, CUE, etc.. I understand now, but I was like, whaaaa?? You must have a lot of experience. You literally just knew the functions by looking at it. I'm hoping to start understanding internal more. I enjoyed you talking about its guts.. I'm 31 years old, fairly new to analog ( past year really, been mostly digital minus some outboard stuff, I started recording and mixing in 2009 I wasted money at a school, although school was fun, I learn as good on my own) and have grabbed this board and a Tascam M224 which apparently the 80s Tascam M series are now rather coveted upon these days, i see these things going for ridiculous prices, 4 figures ridiculous, and for the smaller 16 Channel. Its nuts these types of boards would be lucky to bring $100 a decade ago, or even less. The M224s engineering doesn't seem as neutral as the Teac not so open and indestructible (what's that your power supply failed? Well, you don't have to pay a crazy amount to have it rebuilt! Just come to good ole' Teac and we'll sell you another module that you install in the same manner you plug a vacuum into a wall socket. The Tascam 1980s M series does have a very beautiful sound. It is very colorful, but I like it, its not bad color. I wouldn't say its a neve, but even the eq while limited with one mid sweep 250hz-6k, a high shelf @ 10k, and a low shelf at 100hz, (odd frequencies) the eq adds some character and color that i havent minded thus far, transformer coupled pres as well. I havent had the right moment to test either of these in a real session but im waiting for the right sound to come along. the These older 70s, early 80s Japanese made boards are no joke man. Just like Japanese guitars of that era. I wish shit was this solid today, even if the product had to weigh 70lbs. Worth the hassle. I dont see many modern boards at all with removable modules, especially in such a simplified way. I did a quick drum track (I'm a guitarist) through the Teac M5A and yes the board is a little more hissy than my mixwizard or my soundcraft, but there was a certain weight to the drums. A weight I havent gotten from my other boards. I recently got a 8 channel Reel to reel, which is almost ready for showtime and I can't wait to run these two boards straight to tape, also curious what my modern boards will sound like in comparison. I ranted.
Can you explain what the difference would be between using an old console such as this to a more modern, much smaller mixer like a Mackie VLZ 1604? Also, do you know if the lowest/ highest band on the eq are shelves? The manual for the 5A does not specify.
Hi, Justin. To your last question, look on page 3 of the 5/5A manual. It shows graphically the EQ bands are both peaking filters, not shelving. Your first question is hard to answer because there are so many facets to an analog mixing console, and infinite perspectives...every operator is a u Kaye individual with unique experiences, ears, objectives and abilities, not to mention the program material is likely to be just as unique. To offer my own opinion on the two models about which you are asking for a comparison, the Teac will offer a more limited feature set, higher noise floor and distortion, and a number of sonic signatures associated with “slower” opamps. It will also offer much better serviceability due to the modular design, and more simply signal path. The Mackie has a much more robust feature set, a more “clean” sound, probably better stereo imaging, but will be more difficult to service. I’m assuming the Mackie is constructed using surface-mount components. Oh, and the obvious, the Teac has a bigger footprint and is significantly heavier. I don’t know if that helps, but which one you choose should really be driven by how you use an analog console, what your objective is, and what you enjoy using.
@@SweetbeatsTechStop I actually ended up buying the 5b and am loving it as a front-end for my daw for it's preamps, great sound! I recently am getting some subtle crackling however which I suspect is the caps, did you ever end up swapping the caps on yours? I'm somewhat of an electronics noobie but I think I would like to try swapping the caps, at least on the channel modules. Do you have any advice on how best to approach? What do you mean by "audio-grade" capacitors? Thanks for you help!
@@justinbrown8214 the crackling is a good indication of bad caps, from my little experience and reading, i assume its not dirty potentiometers (deoxit alot first) the caps generally don't last more than 30 years so it's common to have them replaced. experts reccomend replacing the ones in the power supply unit first before doing every single channel strips
Hello, excellent video. I wanted to consult him; What is your opinion of the TEAC MODEL 3 mixer? I'm looking for one, and I would be interested to use it as an analog summing buss. Thanks!
This video inspired me 2 get a 5B 4 myself last May. Still waiting 2 get my tech 2 check it over, re-cap it & upgrade the op-amps. Latest acquisition=Model-2A (I already had the meter bridge). Could use as stand-alone small mixer, side-board (say, drum mixes) & expander. The meter bridge is handy in itself. Found an excellent condition 246 Portastudio too. Long queue 4 servicing/reconditioning! Haven’t been able 2 find a User Manual for the 5B tho’ I found a “Service Manual” ... how can I get one? Found User & Service manuals 4 the 2A no probs/ditto the 246. I periodically return to this post (almost a tutorial really) 4 inspiration & always learn something new! Oh, also found the original 1981 Tascam Multitrack Primer which’s invaluable!
Hey thanks for the comments! So as far as the Service Manual you can use the Teac Model 5/5A Service Manual for the 5B. The only differences between the 5A and the 5B are the color knob caps on the 5B, and the 5B uses 4559 opamps instead of the 4558 parts found on the 5 and 5A. A pdf copy of the Model 5/5A Service Manual can still found at the following web address, and probably other places too: bee.mif.pg.gda.pl/ciasteczkowypotwor/SM_scena/Tascam%20Teac/Teac%20Tascam%20Series%205,%205A%20Mixer%20Service%20Manual.pdf
Sweetbeats' Tech Stop Thx mate; I’ve got the Service Manual/what I’m after is the User Manual. Seems rare as hens’ teeth. Don’t really understand the rear panel especially how to connect/cascade another mixer as expander. (Thinking of my newly acquired 2A+meter-bridge as expander. Haven’t yet seen the 5BEX unit anywhere).
how did the recap / upgrade go down, are you happy with the mixer now? Do you know which opamp was used to upgrade over the 4559 ? I think those opamps are still good today.
Hi David; it’ll b amongst the last as well as my TSR-8 open-reel 2 b serviced/repaired/modded/upgraded. I have my tech quaking in his boots in anticipationuI’ll run + his choice of op-amp upgrade, (maybe he’ll just replace them & yes they were supposed 2 b a few times faster than the 5 & 5A) will insist on a recap tho’ & get it as quiet as possible. My 122 will b the mix-down deck. Cassette is my end-point. I’ve just about got my Portastudio rig ready 2 work (having the matching pencil electret pair of mics repaired). Got original Auratones 2 monitor from. The amp’s a small 60s/70s Vintage Kenwood Trio 250U which’s about 2 b put in 4 a recap. I think my 2A is good 2 go. It’s meter-bridge’s a handy line-amp!
Hola tengo la misma consola...me pueden ayudar como conectarla? La probe y funciona los canales individualmente pero no le ayo para usarla con el master
Hello, I have just acquiring the Model 3 (a little like 5), having several effect rack (1 reverb, 1 delay and 1 chorus) I understand that it was possible to introduce them into the bus mix to apply the effect on each slice is it possible? if so should we use the out or the line out? to enter the Buss in. I have tried for many hours connecting with my rack in vain ... Thank you in advance
I'm not sure...the physical build is really nice. You'd have to try it out. The components themselves aren't anything exceptional, but with some modifications it could possibly do alright, but I think it depends on what your expectations are as well as your standards for a "summing mixer". If you're looking for high-end boutique results the Model 5 is not likely to get you there in my opinion; not trying to be disparaging in any way.
@@SweetbeatsTechStop So, can one of these be improved by component changes to have better sound quality? What is the base transparency like with one of these boards? Is it gonna give me something drastically different than what I put in?
@@isaackhaw9418 I *think* I understand your question...if you do not want to use the Model 5 onboard mic pre, then you use an external mic pre. There are many options available, and you would just purchase one that has phantom power. You can also purchase an external phantom power supply. So it would be condenser mic -> external phantom power supply -> Teac Model 5 mic input.
I’m not sure what you mean by “it’s a DI signal.” The source of the CUE OUT jack is a 12x1 mix of the channel 1~8 CUE level knobs (this is a pre-EQ and pre-fader send of whatever are the selected sources of input channels 1~8), and the 4 TAPE level knobs on the 4 subgroup modules (which source the 4 TAPE IN jacks). Hope that helps. This is all from the manual. It’s intended use is for a monitor mix for the talent during tracking and overdubs.
I don’t really know anything about that console. I guess it depends on whether or not it meets your needs functionally. The PM-430 appears to be pretty limited feature wise so you’d want to think about what you are wanting to accomplish and whether or not it can accommodate that. I took a look at the service manual. I’m sure it would add some “color” and noise too to your signal. The mic inputs are transformer balanced so there’s that but I don’t know what kind and doubt they are anything special...the interstage opamps are +/-15V powered TA-7136 parts which was a decent opamp in its day, and Yamaha used them in a lot of their period sound reinforcement consoles, but it’s kind of a PITA part if you want to or need to replace them because it’s a unique 7-pin SIP part with a unique pinout. The output drivers are a proprietary Yamaha opamp that are +/-22V powered, so that’s interesting. Should be some decent headroom there but I don’t know about the sound quality. Bear in mind this is a small format live sound mixing console made for clubs. It wasn’t designed for recording or studio work, so it’s likely to be noisier than desired and the specs indicate it doesn’t have the lowest distortion specs. If you’re looking for a color box it will probably do something in that way, but expect it’s going to need work and don’t expect any “magic” from it. Outside of that I’m sure it is decently built...Yamaha stuff is generally well made, and it looks really easy to open up and work on which is cool.
The Model 5 and 5A consoles feature the 4558 opamp, while the 5B is fitted with the 4559. The Model 5 and 5A consoles feature putty-grey colored knob caps, while the 5B is fitted with a multicolor array of colored knob caps. Those are the only differences between the Model 5/5A and 5B consoles of which I'm aware.
I don't know anything about the Model 3 preamps to compare. Anybody else know? The Model 5 series mic preamps are what I would consider a garden-variety transformer coupled front end into a typical opamp stage. The Model 5 and 5A use the 4558 opamp, and the 5B uses the 4559. The transformer is a Teac branded "peanut" type transformer. Again, garden-variety, but maybe with a bit more dirt and character than a typical opamp-only mic preamp that utilizes something like a TL072. These are all suppositions and subjective opinions. If you're looking for boutique magic you're not likely to find it here, but there are possibilities for upgrades. For instance, Jensen may have a drop-in replacement transformer, but you'd have to contact Jensen to tease that out. Also, there are certainly plenty of options for "upgrades" to the 4558/4559 opamp, but you might lose some of the character by doing that. I'm not suggesting the Teac in stock trim is "bad", but simply trying to implore you consider the circuit is not unique or remarkable; good design; conservative; typical for the day, and with the transformer in the circuit and the earlier generation opamp, it might be able to offer something "different" than a non-transformer coupled preamp. Where the console excels compared to contemporary designs is in its physical design and build. Its relatively robust, the circuit boards are nicely laid out, are of the plug in type, and the signal path is relatively simple. My best piece of advice is, if you're curious about one, go find one or find somebody that has one you can take for a spin.
@@levijessegonzalez3629 can you define what "magic" it is you are looking for? This is all extremely subjective matter we are discussing. What mic preamps have you used? What is it you are looking for in a mic preamp?
@@SweetbeatsTechStop just a classic really warm sound. I have tried 1073 clones but none that I loved. And I'm tired of audio interface pres. Looking for something that has some soul to it.
@@levijessegonzalez3629 Well its hard to quantify "soul", because, here again, that is extremely subjective. I have no idea what your goals or pursuits are with the preamp, what you are recording, how you are recording it, what mic or mics you are using, and how you are using the preamp...conservative gain? Smashing the input? Condenser mic? Dynamic? Drums? Sax? Voice? All these things matter for the discussion I think. I can understand your dissatisfaction with audio interface preamps if we are talking about budget-bracket interfaces. Typically they are designed and manufactured with low-cost as a priority to keep the price point down for the consumer; you get what you pay for...and they get the job done and typically not much more. But if you are also not happy with a 1073 clone (depending on how well it was executed...was it a DIY clone? A manufactured clone?) If it was a manufactured product and was functioning properly, and you weren't happy with it, I don't expect the Model 5 series is going to do it for you. Unless the "soul" you are looking for is a preamp that maybe gets gritty in an arguably unpleasant way when pushed...when the transformer saturates. But sometimes that sort of thing can be a creative tool and that's why I'm saying if you *really* want to know you're going to have to just try it. Or maybe you'd like it because the non-linearities of the input transformer are different enough from those electronically balanced interface preamps, which are typically designed to be transparent. You aren't looking for transparent I gather. The Model 5 series will certainly be less transparent compared to a budget interface. But I assume the 1073 clone you tried was transformer-coupled, yes? But you weren't happy with it...so I don't know. Have you considered whether the preamp is the issue or possibly not and its your mic or micing technique? What mic or mics are you using? What are you recording? You can ask questions all day long on the internet and you won't get a true direct answer from anybody, including me, because nobody else is precisely in your situation, records the way you do, or has the same background experience with equipment and your sonic landscape. I'm not trying to complicated, I just think there is way too much steering without context that transpires on the internet. And I want to try to avoid contributing to it. I don't know if I'm doing that or not. I do hope there is something useful in all I'm stating here.
