A supporter of the teachers unions is questioned about her belief that the unions need more money and power. Watch more conversations with a liberal at: battlefield315.com
Nothing wrong with trade unions, but government employees have absolutely NO business unionizing. The conflict of interest is absurd! If taxpayer money is funding their paychecks and benefits packages, the taxpayer is the employer. When the "collective bargaining" occurs, it's just one government agency agreeing with another government agency to fork over money that isn't theirs.
20alphabet You don't seem to realize this simple fact. When you pay taxes YOU GIVE UP ALL CLAIM to the money you paid and there is no obligation anywhere for any government agency to give you an accounting. Therefore the taxpayer is NOT the employer, the state county or federal government who "owns" the funds is the employer.
Fredrick Zinos The representative government does NOT have any fiduciary responsibility to the citizen? The taxpayer is NOT the employer of the representative government? Either your parents were not natural-born U.S. citizens, giving you a skewed view of the duties of government as it was intended, or you're smoking crack. It's exactly THIS type of thinking that has riddled police, fire, and teacher unions, and is communistic in origin. It is also this erroneous belief that emboldens a sense of entitlement, creating abuse and ultimately resentment toward those who are the masters.
20alphabet Your belief that you have some control over your tax funds can only be due to the fact that you’ve drunk the Kool-Aid. Here is an example of what I mean when I said the government is the employer of teachers etc., and not you as a tax payer or some naively titled entity called ‘the public.” Just because you funded the enterprise doesn’t mean you own or control it. The example: When you receive your tiny little pay check there is a section that delineates the taxes that were taken out. Do you see social security in that section? Why do you suppose your government calls this a tax rather than YOUR ACCOUNT? If you called the social security administration, gave them you SS account number and asked them how much was in “your account” they would laugh at you. Ask the federal government what it did with the taxes you paid, ask the same question at every level of government and they’ll tell you to get lost. You don’t have an account anywhere with any branch of government at any level. With respect to SS, you have a number that identifies you and a record that says how much you MAY be paid and on what dates and that’s all. There is no money in SS. It’s a Ponzi scheme which may explain why it is a month behind in making its payment. And it is not obligated to make any SS or other payments at all, not to you or anyone else. It pays because the alternative would be rioting in the streets. Once the government, any government collects a tax it is their money, not yours. That’s what ‘tax” means. The taxes you pay for SS Medicare etc., when paid back are called “entitlements” as though the money you received was government largess. And indeed it is. It’s the government’s funds, not yours. Think for a moment, if the tax funds government collects were actually YOUR money they wouldn’t have the ability to cut your benefits if it thinks it needs or wants to. You have NO accounts with the government and it owes you nothing, not even an accounting of what happened to the money you paid in taxes. Add to that the fact that money is fungible. It flows unimpeded from one area of supposed need to another as determined by the owner of the money, the government, not you, the contributor. Moreover the government can seize your assets including bank accounts and real property as though they were the owners. Think that’s not true? Then why, if your property were seized, do you have to litigate with the government to get it back but the government doesn’t have to litigate with you to seize it. So what is it that you own? You own debt. You want control of your money, you have to elect a whole new set of clowns who, desperate to get their hand on your money promise reform but never ever enact it. But of course you don’t want a change. You love the illusion of thinking the money in your wallet, your bank your 401K your stock account actually belongs to you. Dream on. You want to do something about corruption in teachers unions and other public sector institutions? First You’d better figure out who’s calling the tune.
Today I was told of an incident where a high schooler was talking about her upcoming field trip to DC and she asked if anyone knew which states they were driving through. She was in disbelief when someone rattled off the list of states because she asked "Wow! How did you know that?" BTW: this conversation happened in Florida; approximately 30 miles from the Atlantic. Public school teachers are just about the laziest and most worthless professionals around.
I thought no one would agree to monopolies, child labor or debt prisons. Thank you! Unions, Gov & Police protect us from the tyranny of capitalists. HMMM. Would be good to discuss opposing opinions!!!
FlashToso Well, unions, government, and police all hold monopolies over their share of the work and will inevitably find a way to put people in prison, debt or not. ...But hey, at least there's no possibility of fair labor for young kids. That's illegal!
Public sector unions are unnecessary. George Meany begged JFK not to write that executive order allowing Govt. employees to unionize. UPS is highly unionized. Just like the Post Office. Why does UPS make profits year after year but the Post Office does not?
This is one of the reasons why Socratic method and critical thinking standards don't fair well in a public school environment. Nobody will openly support using violence against others to rob them of their property while not providing them any goods or services, until you bring up property taxes for school districts.
holy crap! these are hilarious! "children are not unionized." epic gold right there!! thumbs up, subscribed, shared to FB. damn, thanks for such an awesome laugh to go with my ale tonight! fukken-A, these are terrific!
+KingTesticus Teachers and government employee unions are out of control, between out right propaganda and lobbying government agency's, they spend hundreds of millions, if not billions of dollars collectively , and get there way every time. The "over worked underpaid " teacher is a complete MYTH. if 100K a 9 month 7 hour day is over worked and underpaid, then I guess PT. Barnum was right, and the tax payer is the sucker.
This is absolutely fantastic. It's stated simple enough that everyone should be able to understand it, even union thugs. It needs to be shown in every classroom in America so our children understand why their teachers really protest and drag them along with them.
Teachers are way overpaid and way underworked. What other job can you have that gives you 3 months and every single holiday off each year? And any teacher that complains about their pay............I do not remember a military "draft" that made them become a teacher. They chose their profession and I'm quite sure they knew the pay going in.
I have attended California's public schools and I can personally attest to what this person is saying. Public teacher's union teachers who suck at their jobs and insist it's because they are not paid enough are one of the main reasons our educational system is failing. And this problem will never go away as long as the government runs education.
+Justin Bowers I think it is more that workers don't have the tools and information necessary to see when their unions have started working against their own interests and bring them back in line.
I haven't seen a union yet that did not reduce productivity. No, most people don't go for the union. It holds you back. If you are untalented, unskilled, or unmotivated, unions will keep you employed.
Including college, I went to 11 schools when growing up. Some private, some public. We moved a lot so I went to schools from the east coast to the west coast. North and south. The private schools were far, far superior. Those that say that the union ensures they get reasonable pay are correct. Most of them couldn't remain employed without it.
Hilarious, but sadly very, very true. Unions are as ancient and outdated as the dinosaurs, but sadly they haven't met the same fate yet. My daughter is an educator and completely agrees.
I have to admit, the more I read about government schools, the happier I am that my parents sent me to private school. My father had two jobs, a day time job and worked in a bar during the evenings and weekends, my mother was an office worker who took in washing in the evening so as to pay the school fees. Watching this video is the first time I have sat down and realised the sacrifices they made for me.
im becoming a teacher and i think teacher unions deserve absolutely nothing. there should be zero iob protection, and there needs to be evaluations of teachers ao that the ineffective and ignorant ones are fired permanently
I WAS a teacher in a private school for several years & they did give me merit increases. I was dedicated and happy. I moved when I sold my home and the opportunities for teachers were low. I also have kids & I saw what happened when they went to public school.....It was not like that 40+ years ago. Teachers WANTED to be teachers & didn't care so much about how much they made; they did it because they enjoyed teaching. Times have changed for the worse unfortunately.
This is soooo spot-on. Supposed to be a parody of the teachers unions but it's so accurate that it's really sad....sad that the American public is forced to tolerate the ludicrous actions of these unions!
As a teacher, I pay almost $1,000 per year in dues. In my state, an attorney pays only $400 to the State Bar. This video is right-on--fire the teachers' unions and cut every district office in half and then consolidate all districts in the state to one third. That would be a start.
wow...as a private school elementary teacher I think that ALL teachers need to be evaluated!!! Every year i got evaluated and then standards for the next year were set. Every other job get evaluated with the exception of politicians...If you don't do your job then you deserve to be FIRED!!!
Teachers with new technology (computers, i phones, curriculum based programs) are nothing but high paid baby sitters. "Open the computer and read the instructions, if you need me I will be in the lounge."
@SovereignStatesman Yes, I recognize that, but the quality of education could have been sustained for much longer had voters understood that funding was never the issue. Smaller class sizes, newer facilities and equipment, paid prep times, better paid teachers, etc, these are the reasons that we are told that it is necessary to drop hundreds of billions of dollars at a time on education, and it's all a waste, all of it. The proof is that private or home schooled kids are better educated.
This video is perfect...it exposes the greed, the anti-child nature of teachers' unions, in simple, easy-to-understand terms (for Americans 'educated' in government schools).
Union's purpose is to protect the worker. Organizing gives workers huge power- and that's a good thing, however the rule of law needs to be the governing entity. When unions become so powerful they impeded free market capitalism then they are as much the problem as the corporations- that abuse employees.
+Tom Dalton www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2014/02/07/how-unions-trumped-corporations-in-big-donations-in-one-chart/ And the ones molding young minds incorrectly are powerful.
This is the most civil response you have made yet. I know two teachers who began in private schools and then with their experience tried for a public school job which has union-won advantages like dental. As you know, that stuff is very expensive, and teachers supporting a family would be attracted by these things. A private school career is gainful only if the clientele is very rich and can afford to pay exorbitant tuitions. Public schools deal with a lot of social problems, however.
I'll show you plenty. I was in a union once. Getting out of that was the best thing I ever did. Unions keep the the mediocre employed, yes but it severely limits those with the talent and drive to get somewhere. I, and many other people, have made a much, much better living without a union holding us back.
Maybe things have changed. In my day it was Louisiana and Arkansas. I remember once accidentally reading a report card of a boy who lived next door to me at the time. He missed 90 days, failed pretty much everything even with the low standards, and only had to make up one class to pass the entire grade. I remember being in 8th grade and having the semester hijacked because over half the class didn't know division or multiplication. Didn't learn about evolution till I studied it on my own.
I agree with your second sentence totally. The answer is a catch 22. You took the job so you are expected to deal with it. I did for 30 years. Is the breakdown in society the teachers fault? No, but deal with it, you have no choice. Will more money change anything in society? No. Will conditions improve? No. Will government require more of you? Constantly. Will lawyers force you to put up with even harder circumstances? Yes. Is your personal safety going to become more of a risk each year? Yes.
Look at the Teacher's Union website. Their primary focus is not on fixing education, it's about raising salaries. When they learn to support their product, I will support them. Until then I will not treat them as professionals. Remember, preparing their graduates(k-12 or college) to compete with other countries should be a focus to raise more taxes by having more taxpayers or higher paying jobs.This will fix the problem of more taxes to hire more teachers with higher salaries.
Socio economic class (SEC) is the number one indicator of a child’s success. Boarding school is effective among all SECs (role models, tutors, healthy meals, safe environment, plenty of sleep). Boarding schools mimic high SECs (tutors, educated adults, successful role-models, structured activities that tech a person to interact with other people and take direction). This would likely cost more money, but would have a desired result of successful, well educated, students.
I remember 30 years ago you couldnt hire a teacher. No one wanted to be a teacher. I was in class rooms where people sat on the radiators and floors because the classes were over crowded. Now we have some decent teachers out there with good school and the first sign in a budget crisis we cut education and layoff teachers.
@DadioFresh1 The issue is that Private unions are negotiating with the owners of the company. The Federal, State, and local governemnts don't have to worry about debt(just look at where they are today) so there is no real "ownership" to to negotiate with. But if you compare a private school teacher's pay to a public school teacher's pay, in many states the private school is showing better results and the public school teacher is getting paid much more.
(1/2) Forgive me, but I'm a teacher's son. I understand Teachers Unions and tenure far more intimately than any reading could ever show. I have life experience. And I live in Western New York. In New York, we have the Taylor Law: a teacher can be fined a day's pay for every day he's on strike, as long as the School Board negotiates in good faith. In the '70's, the Buffalo School Board provoked a strike and broke the Taylor Law (proven in court). The Board was never punished, though.
I'm not a teacher, but I have worked in an urban school district where salaries are no where near 45-50K. Teachers pay depends on what the district can afford to pay, not student test scores or the effectiveness of the teachers. That's why many suburban teachers earn more than rural or urban teachers. Teachers in poorer school districts work harder because they have so many more social factors that they have to deal with and overcome and they get blamed when the kids fail...cont.
So true. I mean, this hits the nail right on the head. This is roughly how each and every talk I've had with Democrats on this topic has gone, only with much more Hitler, and Mubarack thrown in.
Paying more CAN make better teachers but, in the sense that it's a reward for BETTER teaching and much of the money is sent to benifits and Buildings so forth.
Just because they work hard, doesn't meen we shouldn't scrutinize their performance, today teachers are fired because of budget cuts and scandals, not whether they are actually good at teaching
I was in a union once. Never again. Unions are for those who have no ambition or talent. The union assures that they will get more than they deserve. I wanted to get somewhere. That's why I quit the union. Worked.
No one wants to lose businesses, but sweetheart deals, refusing to audit them and giving them breaks WHILE putting the burden ON public sector employees who make a modest wage and fund thier pensions 100%, is NOT the answer. The answer is to abolish the Federal Reserve, end interest payments to those criminals and protect US jobs while simultaneously commencing trials for Banksters who caused this mess in housing and in the economy..
battlefield, For your consideration from a proud former AFL-CIO, OEA/NEA, and current OEA-R member: The Straw Man fallacy is committed when a person simply ignores a person's actual position and substitutes a distorted, exaggerated or misrepresented version of that position. This sort of "reasoning" has the following pattern: Person A has position X. Person B presents position Y (which is a distorted version of X). Person B attacks position Y. Therefore X is false/incorrect/flawed. (source: The Nizkor Project, "Fallacy: Straw Man')
My wife is a teacher....I see the union bureaucracy as a big problem. It seems that they just confuse everything at every trun. I think there must be a better way. And, no I would not last a day teaching any of these kids. I don't know how yall do it. I think I would find myself in jail after one day. The stories I hear, and remembering how I used to act make my skin crawl. NO WAY! God bless you.
I'm a Union member as a teacher, and I wouldn't be without them. The kids first of all have a $ sign on them, so it's "keep those kids in there no matter what, that's how the district's make their money". These kids can say whatever they want in terms of what you did or said and you come up against a careless and "let's get this done quick attitude and fire the teacher" The Union however will represent the teacher and counter with a "JUST HOLD ON " attitude and enforce the teacher's right's!!!
I'm sick of teachers going on strike to get what they were told NO on. More money, more vacation, more benefits. Whining. This is what they are teaching kids. "if you don't get what you want, just don't go to work. Hold up a sign about it instead to show your value." honestly. If my kids went to a public school and the teachers went on strike, i'd be starting a wave of tax demands that minute. Don't want to do the job you were hired for? OK. My kid's going to a private school or I will home school them, AND get my taxes back.
Unionized teachers are less likely to leave the profession entirely and typically have more resources to improve their craft (continuing education, seminars, and more collaboration). The reason why public schools are failing is because of increased disparities between the public schools themselves. See, not all public schools are failing...unfortunately only those in the inner city. Much of this is due to misappropriation of funds.
Seeing that teachers unions in California have spent over $200 million over the past 10 years on political donations, I think it's safe to say that if they really cared about the kids, then they ought to spend less money on political campaigns and more on teachers and supplies.
And, in their arrogance, they went so far as to take the fines--which they ended up getting to keep despite breaking the law--out of the teachers' CHRISTMASS paychecks. In the late '80's, they tried again. This time, the teachers went straight to court instead of striking. The Board could have gone into arbitration, but they let the court case run--and lost. Later, the president of the Board apologized in the paper--NOT for breaking the law, but for letting the court case go through.
@svendiamond Finland, which is #1 in the world in academic progress, has strong teacher's unions. Tenure was supposed to be to protect teachers from getting fired for political reasons.
WI Pensions are 100% FUNDED Pensions. The Governor Gave Tax Breaks TO Businesses in WI, causing the budget crisis. It has nothing to do with Teachers or the Unions, who average 46K, start at 25k Hardly rich. Yes, Teachers are paid from taxpayer dollars and their income is modest. Their demands are simply that their signed contract be honored. Unionsand Organized Labor gave you 40 hr workweek, weekends, safe workplace, child Labor laws, Retirement and Pensions and vacation.
Any teacher in the world will tell you the most important determiner of a child's success at school is the parents. Put in simple terms (statistical rather than absolute) kids who go to private schools have better parents when it comes to performing well at school - that's the main reason private schools do better. Don't like the sound of this? Remember, ultimately it is your responsibility to educate and bring up your child - not the state's.
"Why do conservatives tout the ability of cash to attract say, good CEOs, yet think that education will not suffer if teachers are paid less?" Because our educational system is not in trouble because teachers are not paid enough. Our educational system is bad because it is run by the government. All other problems stem from that one.
Only if you let them. Unions are good for those that lack the talent or ambition to get somewhere. Unions ensure that they will never have the need to be any good.
I have a lot of inner city teacher friends and family members. It is funny to me how in private they blame the parents who are either absent, on drugs, extremely poor, or negligent. Yet, their representatives in the unions get on media outlets and blame all the problems on the lack of money and more teachers. The unions never talk about absentee fathers or people having tons of kids they cant' afford, but in private, that's all teachers talk about.
Don't be so determined to have local control that the benefit of sharing and therefore having more choices is lost. LOCAL CONTROL needs choices. We don't create our own textbooks so we should understand the benefit of having others(other than locals) to contribute to our learning resources is key. Now we must understand who benefits- teachers or students. Our students are second rate when we ignore their needs
Wrong. The social systems in Utah and New York are so different, they may as well be on different planets. How much of the money spent in N.Y. is actually spent on education? How can you hold a teacher responsible for the pass/fail of a child who lives in a broken home, maybe gets one meal a day, and fears for his safety more than failing to doing his homework? It is not the teachers that are failing. Society is.
so we lower teachers wages and expect better results? what people don't realize is that when it comes to a union contract, anything is negotiable. hold teachers more accountable but do it in writing. that's not unreasonable.
It may be news to you, but that doesn't mean that it isn't happening. Unproductive teachers are let go by effective administrators. I have seen it happen. I am sure that in many districts there are unproductive teachers who should be let go, but as I mentioned that is an administrative problem. It is ridiculous to disparage an entire group because of a few rotten apples. There are ineffective and unproductive parents, doctors, lawyers, bankers, factory workers, etc.
I will concede that we do need to do away with rubber rooms and make it easier for principals to fire teachers...but this doesn't mean that unions don't serve a purpose.
cont...If a child comes from a broken home or a dangerous neighborhood or has emotional or psychological problems that makes them a distraction at the least in class, how is a teacher to blame for poor test scores? Parents and politicians are always looking for a scapegoat. The fact is education is low on the political priority list and parents are too busy to put in the kind of time with their kids that parents used to. And people expect teachers to put up with abuse for less money???
Utah is Mormon country, meaning a whole different set of rules apply. It not only costs much more to educate a kid who shows up in our country not knowing a word of English, but it'd also much easier to educate kids that all belong to a church that demands they excel. You're comparing apples to oranges.
What is so surprising is people actually think corporations pay taxes. Corporations don't pay taxes, people do. So quit blaming corporations for not contributing their fair share. The taxes corps pay is built into the profit they make. This is part of the reason teacher's unions need to be broken apart, they aren't teaching the right things.
We are stuck in the status quo mode. What we need is to allow DeptEd to help. Right now they can only offer funds in a controlling way. They insist they cannot interfere with local control. Local control needs choices. A public virtual library of study materials would do a lot better than the virtual learning I have seen. They look like modern tech presenting a 30 year old package. Put local control into learners not schools/teachers.
Teachers have not even prepared graduates to understand productivity enough to stock shelves. They will not earn my respect until they learn that graduates become the workforce. Well prepared workers will help us compete against other countries.
Whose delusion is it when students don't get the choices they need? Why is it so difficult to discuss ways to make education more flexible, effective, affordable, with higher quality and greater relevance to what graduates need to compete in a world economy? Why do we teach language but not meaningful communication? We talk "at", not "with" each other. This is mass communication(or conversation) but not discussion. When will we teach basic productivity (to stock shelves, even)?
@tbeaver12 Continuing. In Milwaukee the average teacher makes $56,000. The average person makes $19,000. And the average couple makes $46,000. Teachers are not underpaid at all. That's just what unions have been telling everyone. That $56,000 teacher becomes $106,000 with benefits. That teacher paid zero into his/her own health insurance and zero into his/her pension. Taxpayers paid for those and are tired of being ripped off. Our kids are not competing well with other countries.
We forgot the history. We have teachers' unions because the women once hired for this job were among the most exploited segments of our civilization. We forget it was teachers' unions that first advocated for professional standards and better teacher education. The tenure system originally protected them from patronage firings that occurred under the spoils system where each new mayor or school superintendent brought his own friends in after each election. Requiring teachers to recertify and show adequate performance to keep their jobs is reasonable and should be done. As they are essential government employees, we don't have to recognize a right to walk out. But otherwise, they do have a right to associate and organize like any other citizens. Most teachers are in fact pretty good at what they do. Before condemning them wholesale, one should try standing in front of a class. It's not as easy as it looks.
@YourFavoriteAries ...the salary teachers get keeps people who would go into teaching from considering it as a career choice. They go into other fields that have better pay which decreases the amount of teachers, competition in the teaching field, and the quality of education. Increase pay, increase teachers, increase competition, increase quality of education. It's simple capitalistic logic.
If we want to get rid of teacher unions (TUs), then we need to get rid of school boards ran by non-experts. TUs are bands of experts that negotiate with elected and appointed officials. This process is often quite messy. Imagine non-experts telling experts how to do there job. Ideas should come from the experts - the ones with degrees, and licenses, but they don't. I certainly would not want a local non-expert telling my doctor or lawyer how to do there jobs, for example.
Rule of thumb: when a Conservative uses the word "freedom," he's talking about FREEDOM FROM FREEDOM. Have you looked at the studies? Here's what they say: the quality of education varies widely. Some schools buck the trends. The best education comes from "Religious" schools, but this is at the cost of indoctrination into the religion of the school. Then, there are the public schools. Then, there are the fly-by-nighters. That's whom the vouchers are for.
we need to close the federal department of education, all state departments of education, pass a right to work law, so we can hire non-union teachers legal pass a commercial rights amendment, so it will be a crime for a government to own a school, and we will have the greatest education system in the world. we may also have to pass a law similar to "meagans law" to keep union teachers from hanging around schools and playgrounds.
How can we have freedom of choice without choices? Schools and teachers only allow choices that support teachers/schools. We overlook learning opportunities that will support student needs. We need to find ways to allow us the choices we need, not those teachers/schools need.
"The rest of the world thinks your country is insane." Why should we care? The fact is, as expenditures on education have risen, quality of education has dropped. That is a fact. I've been through our bullshit educational system and not once did I ever think "Oh, if only my teacher was paid more, I would be learning more!" The problem is that the government is running education.
I have no sense of entitlement. I am a taxpayer. No one forced me to be a teacher, to work for forty years as an educator, to get a masters degree, or to work at home after hours. I never implied that others didn't do the same. It is educators who are being slammed here. I am defending my fellow teachers. Administrators are responsible for eliminating unproductive teachers. I don't believe I said anything to deserve your snotty attitude. You are the one who sounds unhappy with yourself.
The Unions were useful back when workers were treated like crap some 100 years ago, but now they are very counter productive and opress their own employers. They're always asking for more money and won't let you even fire the people who don't do their job or are bad at it if they're a union member. Just another thing that was a good idea awhile back, but its become abused and just doesn't work anymore. I swear people say rich people are greedy the unions are just as bad.
