Disassembling the Bosch 18V 4Ah battery reveals something I've never seen before! Here's the link to the previous Kobalt 4Ah XTR battery: • Review & teardown: Kob...
Also notice the angle of the 21700 battery pairs at the end. I'll be it allows the same pack length as an 18650 pack- it makes the 21 mm diameter seem like 18mm since the volume of pack is "sacrificed" in the pack height not length. Width is obviously a little bigger. Yes, great manufacturing technique
Bosch really did a good job in the packaging it's very slim. I would be curious as to how they would fit a sixth cell. I really like some of the Kobalt tools but I guess you get what you pay for if you want a cheap battery it might be a little bit bigger footprint.
Those are great cells. I used 4x Samsung 21700-40T in rebuild of my old Ni-cd batteries, when I couldn´t fit 2x4 LG-HG2 (8cells, 2 in paralel) in old battery case. I wanted something with 4Ah rating.
I switched over to Bosch battery when they came out with core series using 20700. Something you didn't mention is that tight plastic is used as heat conduction, and quicker charger blows air over them. That's how they can charge in 45 minutes without damaging the battery. Not as good as SparkEV refrigerated battery during charging, but it's far better than crap EV like Nissan Leaf.
@@drscopeify It's not perfect, but a plastic optimized for (relatively) high heat conductivity is always preferable to bog standard plastic used in other battery casings. Twice the heat conductivity is still twice the heat conductivity.
@@marcelvos7931 Yeah but plastic does strange things under heat like warp, expand, crack it seems like it would cut life down drastically of what the part is designed for
@@drscopeify Not as long as you keep the temperature below designed spec. Lithium cells can't take much heat as well and will always be hotter than the surrounding plastics. We're not talking about oven isolation material. The Samsung INR21700-40T cells used usually have a temperature cut-off of 80 degrees Celsius, so it doesn't matter if the surrounding plastic does strange things when getting above 100 degrees, as long as the material can handle the max achievable temperature of the specific application.
@@drscopeify They can add stuff like graphite to the polymers to make it heat conductive and glass fiber to make it stronger/stiffer. "Thermally conductive polymer-compounds can replace metal, ceramics and conventional plastics for heatsensitive applications. They are more and more used in various heat-sink applications such as electronics, housings or in automotive parts".. "The mixture of a polymer and one or more fillers is called compound. The polymer functions as a binding matrix, which is mixed with the filler particles. In this investigation high loads of graphite are used to realize high thermal conductivities."
There's so much about electronics that is assumed, with zero actual testing - that's what makes the internet so awesome. Take one kid, tell him something can't be done and BOOM, it might take a while and he might set a corner of the garage on fire but he gets her done!
This is so crazy because I literally was just looking for reference images as I have been making my own Milwaukee Cp4.0’s but still get irritated Milwaukee didn’t use this staggering approach until the 12.0ah HO’s. The 8.0 HO’s were just. 2p stacked one on top the other as well. Such a waste
I assumed the flap touching the battery (at around the 8:00 minute mark) was a type of thermostat? Nice! I assumed they did that because the prior Bosch batteries would get ridiculously hot. Like "start a fire", or "Melt the Case" hot! I'm switching to Bosch asap! Dewalt has fallen too fast. They're done!!!
@@marcelvos7931 touche'!! I've switch a lot of my tools over to Bosch these past few weeks. And they have more power than I had expected. I got the Freak GDX18V-1800C with 4ah Core, charger, bag for $53 at Lowe's. It has a but too much torque for a driver ((Edit: since getting the Bluetooth module, I've REALLY fallen in love with the 1800C impact. It's now my go to impact driver due to the soft start capabilities. I never liked the Bluetooth capabilities in other tools as they didnt do muxh for a tool.)) I've had a few bits get stuck in the quick release ((Edit # 2 Apparently the bits getting stuck was an issue I had due to the bit holder I was using.)). But it's way better in terms of power and quieter, than the 887 Dewalt impact driver. I got the mini shop vac (came with free extra battery charger, etc) and it EATS the 4ah in like 15 minutes. I have an 8ah Profactor, but it doesn't fit in the battery compartment when closed. So I'm disappointed in Bosch for that one. Next is the Miter saw, and next year, the left sided blade version of the Strongarm 7¼" circular/track saw... and another tool that is TBD if it is released.
@@carterscustomrods I'd try the regular non-ProCore 10 cell batteries with the vacuum cleaner. It doesn't need the additional power that the ProCore batteries can provide over the regular ones, and the regular ones are both smaller (in 10 cell format = 5.5 or 8 Ah ProCore or 4 Ah or more regular) and cheaper. Keep the 8 Ah ProCores for powerful tools that need them. The 8Ah ones are a lot of battery (both in price, power and weight) for a mini vacuum. I use the GAS 18V-10L as a vacuum myself, and the 8 Ah ProCore does fit, although it is of course a lot bigger (and more powerful) than the GAS 18V-1 mini vacuum.
@@macvos sadly, here in the US (North American market), it seems Bosch has fallen already. I went all in with the Bosch lineup, and I'm not sure they'll even be here in a year. They've just stopped trying. They had several new tools set to release (in hopes to push NA tool brands above the 10% Worldwide profits barrier) but they just ghosted them, and we the tool users. From their kept blade strongarm, to new cordless routers, there were 20+ new tools set to come to NA market ... but then they were removed after the (horrible demonstrations) set up at World of Concrete this year. I was really waiting for the left blade Strongarm saw, as were thousands of others that I had hyped it up to. It was a left blade track capable plunge saw (designed for right handed users) and they had done press releases and even did a demo run at several trade shows in the US. Then all the sudden, it just disappeared. I asked Bosch about this, and they said "what saw? We don't know what you're talking about." And I was shocked... like they were trying to make me think I was crazy. 🤣 🤣 🤣. I had stocked up on batteries, awaiting this saw, because I only have use of my right arm, it makes a right blade track saw worthless for ripping Sheet Goods if you can't use it (the "right handed track saws") to your left side with your left hand. Then 1-2 months ago, Bosch products dropped in price a lot. Some by 50% as their new regular price. So, sadly, when this happens here in the US, it's a sign that the brand is going out of business. So unfortunately, I've dumped a lot of Bosch and am moving on to Makita full time. It's a shame. They had potential, and could've grown, but the new core line of batteries became obsolete really quickly with other brands using 36v, 40v, and even 60v. Plus Bosch just didn't market at all. Their strategies were just like "Ughh.. we'd rather not do the work of trying." So, it's heartbreaking to see. Especially since Bosch Worldwide is doing well, snd has so many great tools that the US never would've seen anyways.
Super vid. R u going to dump Cobalt and marry Bosch? I have a lot of Ryobi stuff and some Milwaukee. After seeing your vids, I almost bought the 1/2 drive Cobalt impact. It looks tougher than my Ryobi. 165 for kit. Can't beat that. 99 tool only. But now I'm nervous that your gonna go Bosch on us.
I would dump Kobalt if Bosch makes 24V tools so I can run my Ebike with it! :D...No, I like my Kobalt. It's good quality, cheap, good warranty and best of all, all of my EV's run on Kobalt 24V batteries!
@@billrimmer5596 Yes, 2 in series for 48V. I started talking about them at 16:30 in this video ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-SvnFU3SOVJ0.html
Hi mate, ive had a this Same battery pack and ive watched your video to get the batterys out. Ive noticed after taking the batterys out and charging them in my 18650 charger it makes a hissing sound. Is this Dangerous? Should i throw those batteries away?
Preston's post clearly didn't age well. I dug up the original press release for this battery pack and it mentioned having 21700 cells in the first paragraph. I guess that detail didn't trickle out very well. I really like these 4.0 pack's proportions and power output. Not a fan of the 8.0 proportions, but maybe if I try one I'll get a better feel for it.
Hi, I have a Bosch Pro Core battery exactly the same as this one in your video. Its stopped charging and the battery gauge stopped working. On the multimeter I get 20V from the pins so the cells seem good and so is the inline fuse. I can't work out what's happening but I'm thinking its the charge controller/fuel gauge. The battery isn't recognised in the charger and the drill won't power up except for one initial flash of the work LED. Has anyone seen this or got this problem? Cheers, Marcus.
I would bet ya some IC on the PCB inside the battery is blown or something is up on that front. Try to swap the board from another similar battery and test it , if you can not measure it out with a multimeter
Bosch offers 3 years factory warranty if you register them within 2 weeks after purchase. After those 2 weeks, you can contact them for warranty. I'd try that before going any further. A fresh new battery is always preferable to a repaired one.
True, I just saw an interview with an Bosch representative - there is no balancing the cells! If the electronic on the maschine notices too much drift in the cells, the battery will be shut off. You must send it to bosch services ....
I have 5 pieces of Bosch ProCORE18V 4.0 Ah, all the cells are correct, the machines work but they won't charge? The charger has been tested and works properly.
I'd contact Bosch. I've had a comparable problem before, which turned out to be a faulty charger (GAL 18V-40), which they replaced free of charge. It would charge one battery, but not the other. Another charger would charge both of them just fine... Really strange.
Hi, does this Power4All battery half a self destruction mechanism when cell is disconnected? I wonder if I can replace the cells without BMS self destruct activating.
I replaced 2 cells in my procore 7ah. Two 20700 rotten cells because water got in there and i didn't notice. The battery works but the gauge which shows how much charged it is does not. Also no welding was necessary
Is there a good way to build a batterystation that opperates with 12v Input from a solarsystem in my Van? I could a converter into 230V but is there a better solution?
Converter is probably the best, unless you have lots of money AND need absolutely every kW/h of power you can get (e.g. off-grid, rural/inaccessible area, etc.). But hey, it's been 4 months, so maybe you've already found a solution. Cheers.
Lol Bosch were pioneer on those 21700 cells... Other brands just copy/ paste. Same as SDS system, starlock... You name it!! Now Bosch launch x-lock for grinders
@@ITubeTooInc Metabo is not manufacturing cells so it's more like who went sooner into production, or it's just a date on the paper. People in the field of batteries for powertool companies like Bosch are not stupid , they know what's on the market or what will be.
@Gabriel Kozsar I know, but he said Bosch was the Bosch were pioneer on those 21700 cells and everybody else were copy/pasting them, which is obviously not true as Metabo introduced 21700 cells in power tools long before Bosch did. And actually Metabo had 21700 cell batteries on the market long before Tesla claimed to have "invented" this new cell format specifically for their cars to replace their 18650 cells. Almost all of the pro power tool manufactures have use the exact same Samsung INR cells anyway for years, at least when it comes to 18650 cells. Some have used other li-ion cell manufactures like Sony, Sanyo (now owned by Panasonic), Molicel and A123 earlier but for several years most of the big players like Milwaukee, Makita, DeWalt and Bosch have used the exact same Samsung 18650 cells. The only pro power tool manufacturer I can think of, who also manufacture li-ion cells is Panasonic, but they are a small power tool player in most markets although they are one of the biggest players in the li-ion battery market, with Tesla as their biggest customer. Starlock, one of the other Bosch inventions he mentions, was actually co-developed by Bosch and Fein. Fein is the inventor of the multitool / oscillating tool which now also use the Starlock interface. And although the SDS system was developed by Bosch, it was just and improvement based on the TE system introduced by Hilti in 1960. Hilti's original 10 mm TE-D and 18 mm TE-F shanks can be used in SDS-plus and SDS-max chucks respectively but not vice versa while the newer TE-C, TE-T and TE-Y are fully compatible. All the pro power tool manufactures have made inventions that has be copied and even improved by others and many have become industry standards. It’s not like everyone else is just copying Bosch, they are copying just as much from others.
@@ITubeTooInc True, although Bosch do seem to be ahead of the curve and a major innovator in interface design (and things like Flexiclick), with X-Lock being the latest (IMO huge) improvement. Luckily, Makita have followed in their steps, so I have good hope X-Lock will become just as successful as SDS and Starlock. Brands like DeWalt and Milwaukee seem to be fine with reusing old interface designs, following brands like Bosch and Hilti only when their innovations have been proven for years. They seem to largely focus on power output and big numbers (54V!), although DeWalt did positively surprise me with Powerstack.
Had a Dewalt radio charger for a couple of years with the same battery inside, that i gived to someone in the familly and still works.A year and a half ago i bought that ''big bomb'' Bosh radio charger with an 18 volt battery and the battery doesn't charge no more.Most of the time the radio is always pluged in the outlet.What's the problem? I should've kept my Dewalt radio charger.Not impress by Bosh!
Bosch Professional offers 3 years factory warranty on both tools and batteries. I'd contact them for a replacement or repair. Here in the Netherlands, their service is pretty quick and good.
Bosch is going to take over the industry! They're the only major tool brand that is thinking outside the box. Sure, it's no Festool in many ways, but Festool are 30% overpriced for what they are.
@@lukie4ever true!!! It's bizarre that they did it with their corded tools, and a few cordless (primarily rotary hammer drills) but not every tool. Even the batteries are a bit exposed on the bottoms. As well as the battery ports on several of their tools. It's an easy fix, but I shouldn't have to do it. So I feel ya. However, they do listen to their tool users. So just a few people seeing that can get them to correct it. If those who test prototype tools for them were allowed to know each other, and converse between each other, we would be able to see if it's an issue across the entire tool, and have them fix it. Sadly, testers aren't allowed to open the tools to see any internal issues.
@@carterscustomrods I'm a makita man but when i got the bosch 18v flexiclick i was sold but then i looked inside because i was curious and got disappointed by the switch because that's the weak link in the tool there, the makita's have a bellow in almost every tool
Using copper it is not really for get less resistance or weight saving. As you realize you broke this copper bridges when disassembling the battery. Try to measure same lenght of 0.1mm nickel and you will find its the same.
Do you know of anyone in the USA who repairs Bosch ProFactor batteries? I have two 18V 8.0Ah batteries that are dead. They're new batteries but something is preventing them from powering the tool and charging.
What for real? Think again about possessing the skills required to safely handle the battery if you are already blocked by a seal... that can be picked out with any sharp object.
I bought BOSCH AL 1830 CV battery charger and PBA 18V 2.5Ah W-B in Ravenberg aug 252023 Now I find battery is not charging greeen is not blinking ,used only for 2months 5hours charged only 5 times I am so disappointed Sunil Jay in Srilanaka
I don't think the 18650 will go quietly into the night as long as Tesla is making/using them. Also, the aftermarket for tools already using them will be around as long as people want new batteries for them. WRT tools, Milwaukee in particular will stick with 18650 for the M12 RedLithium (non-XC) packs at least, as there's no room for bigger cells in the tool itself. This also makes sense inasmuch as smaller tools will likely never draw anything like 35A.
@@technologicalsingularity1788 You can't mix match and parallel them together that way. The small ones will run out first and the big ones will become a charger for the small ones and soon it will heat up and explode. Just 3x 21700 on the bottom only would suffice. Leave the top portion empty just like the "penis" on the Ryobi battery.
That's a good point. But I'm afraid the entire M12 line might be gone once the M18 gets smaller and stronger. There's no point to get the M12 when you can get the M18 that is almost the same size.
@@vuaeco 3 cells will always be smaller than 5 cells. You can't physically fit 5 cells in the handle like the M12 or the previous generation Makita 12V tools, so the pack and tool will inevitably be larger (e.g. DeW***). As the workforce ages, the demand for small tools will only continue to rise. Besides electrical efficiency, which is not overly important with tiny brushless motors and lithium batteries, there's no need for higher voltage with the small tools. My DeWalt brushed-motor impact with -20V- 18V li-ion pack already strips or snaps things more often than I'd like. If I could do it over again, I'd get those older Makita mighty mites! I've used the impact and drill, and they were excellent.
@@fun_ghoul 20amp tools, you can figure out cuz 8Ah battery only last you 24 minutes where 12Ah battery will last you 36 minutes when i said discharge rate high which allows some of impact to draw more current for torque they put out doesn’t mean they say at that plus Samsung 30T can handle higher heat, runs cooler than 40T version
True. The Kobalt ones are 21.6V nominal * 4 Ah = 86.4 Wh, with the Bosch being 18V nominal * 4 Ah = 72 Wh. The Kobalt ones therefore have 20% more capacity.
Those 21700 are actually over 4 amps. Epically the ones from the tesla batteries. I have rebuilt the Milwaukee V18 battery with those and they work BETTER than the original!!The original were 3 amp hour batteries. I think most of the 21700 cells are around 4200 mAh.
Capacity and max power output are inversely related. Larger capacity cells have less power output and vice versa. The most powerful cells are currently between 3 and 4 Ah, with 5 Ah cells having significantly lower power output. For example, the Samsung INR 21700-30T (3 Ah) has a proven continuous discharge rate of 35A. The INR 21700-50E (5 Ah) is limited to 9.8A continuous discharge. 4 Ah seems to currently hit the 'sweet spot', with power closer to the 3 Ah cells but capacity between the 3 Ah and 5 Ah cells.
@@hansdampf1968 at present, the Samsung 30T looks to be the better choice. Lower capacity, but more power deliver and more consistent power delivery, or the Molicel P42A or LG HG6 (20650j if you’re using 21700 sized cells. Haven’t seen any info on newer Samsung 21700 cells, but definitely not the 50E, not enough current delivery for a power tool.
@@geoffstrickler I wonder if you have any experience with DeWalt batteries yet? The recent Bosch ProCore 12Ah 18V can deliver 105Amp for like 5 minutes until it reaches a critical temperature of around 90°. I will aim for those, using them for electric motor DIY projects. The Samsung 50s are used in the new Metabo 10Ah tool packs, looks well build too but the lack of information made me select a different company. Milwaukee also looks promising with their 12Ah 18v battery using S40t but the price is very high compared to Bosch and other companies.
@@hansdampf1968 the M18 12.0 compensates for the 40T’s power delivery issue by being a 3P design. That mitigates the issue since max power draw per bank is reduced below the sustained capabilities of the 40T cell. I don’t know which cell the new Metabo is using. It’s definitely not the Samsung 50E, which is he only 5.0Ah cell I’ve seen data on. I got out of the DeWalt line 7 years ago, so I have no direct experience with their modern batteries.
@@geoffstrickler True, the Bosch ProCore are great! Samsung 40t cells, 3p a 35amp = 105amp. As I said Metabo 18v 10Ah using new 21700 NRF Samsung 50s cells. You will have troubles finding information but have a look at this community table: docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1y2jpoUwTOCbt6W3V7BTANON0qFRX7MPgF3T8NVuv8oo/edit#gid=0 Here is a test of the Samsung 50s: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-DqdKXg7SGe4.html&lc=z23rth5iwnj2gzkleacdp431wcusq5rypsanogtn44hw03c010c.1624891594054020
hi , i have a questions, it seems that the INR21700 cells in pro core battery doesn't has the plastic cover over it ( as for the balance connection ), would it be shorted out if two batteries pull out bare and touch each other without the plastic cover. Thanks. Because i remebered someone said that if the plastic cover is broken, it is not safe to have the 18650 touch each other .
You can only pull them out if the strip on the other side is already removed. Just touching two loose ends does nothing. If the plastic is broken... I would be careful about what you do, because if you do manage to let two cells touch sides while the copper strips are still all connected, you are shorting out one cell.
I have a lady I'm trying to help out that has a bike with a Bosch kit on it that came with 36v 2.4Ah battery. She wanted more range so bought a 36v 4Ah battery and it didn't work... got a new charger on the advise of Bosch. Still doesn't work, bought another brand new 36v 4Ah battery... that also will not charge. The original 2.4Ah battery works on either charger, the 4Ah batteries do not work on either charger, charger is correct for all of the batteries. I suspect the new batteries have bad thermistors so they won't charge... there really isn't anything else in there that can cause this that I can think of. Anyone have similar issues with DOA batteries from Bosch?
@@1FishinAddict Tesla have THOUSAND of cell, not need to put high drain battery, just need capacity. Having that many battery have enought output performance.
Electrons flow on the surface of a conductor, hence why cables are stranded. Unless that copy strip was too small to carry the current without melting, your observation of the design isn't meaningful. Since we know the battery does indeed carry the current effectively, the design is good.
bosch like other manufacturers of quality tool brands with experience in the field .... for marketing reasons struggle for survival or greed have changed the policy in the manufacture of tools ... only a few models are made in Germany, Switzerland or other brands are no longer made in the country of origin or from quality materials ... at bosch many of the blue tools no longer have the quality of yesteryear even if you still write on them professionally or heavy duty ... not all of them are like that ... however bosch has and there are quite a lot of tools and decent batteries or some good or very good and in general the prices are not so absurdly unjustifiably high as other brands that are intensely promoted have a captivating design that would say they are ultra special but in fact the price is inflated and the quality is not too good and in some cases it can even be said that you are stolen deceived cheating
I do like that, unlike a lot of other brands, most of their power tools are still made in European countries or Malaysia, which I heavily prefer over China.
Can Bosch explain why BOTH my 8ah batteries died after just 3 years? I paid a lot of money to use them on my Bosch angle grinder with moderate use and no abuse, and now they are dead!! Shame on you Bosch i am never going to buy another tool from you.
That sucks. Have you contacted them? Here in the Netherlands, their service is pretty decent. Hopefully they can replace your batteries against reduced cost or reimburse you.
I always liked bosch tools ... maybe because I was born in a communist country where of course we were isolated from the rest of the world and not so many products or brands managed to reach the country of course by more or less legal means. in my contry when you want to say the drilling machine you many times some people say bosch ... or certainly when you want to say sport shoes ... you say adidas ... adidas is the word used for sports shoes ... the most popular and quality brands they managed to cross the communist border ...
No question that Amerikkkan propagandists worked hard to make everyone in communist countries idolize Nazi German products. Your memories are your own, and you're entitled to them, but let's not be naïve about the source of this obsession with consumer goods. Also, you clearly grew up in the 1980s, which is hardly a representative period for communism in general, or Romanian communism in particular.
Maybe it's operator error. Do you discharge your batteries to fuck all often? Do you leave them dead overnight, and charge the next morning on site? Do you live somewhere with a real winter, and leave the batteries outside or in an unheated garage? Or do you, on the contrary, never use them but keep them fully charged all the time? There are lots of ways to fuck up a lithium ion battery. Just sayin'.
@@fun_ghoul i hear ya. my tools do get abused a bit, but thats what they are for. my other bosch batteries have had no issues. i think theres a problem with these pro core batteries. the thin copper connections are quite likely a terrible idea. id happily have slightly larger battery if i didnt die on me so quickly
@@dylannewlands6122 Yeah...sorry for jumping to conclusions. I forgot about that copper shit...wasn't that supposed to be an improvement? Oh, technology... 🙄
@@marcelvos7931 haven't opened them up. I'm still battling to get them sorted under warranty. From research the way thier batteries so small is the thin copper strips instead of wire. If I don't get them sorted under warranty I will be sure to open them up and post the verdict. Honestly been running Bosch for 6 years plus. After this shit I'll never give them another dollar.
If it's smaller and lighter but still serves the exact same purpose then I'd take it any day. If you have to carry your tools around all day everyday, you'll start to appreciate it. :D
@Albert Rampo you sound like a moron that has a garage full of black and decker tools stick to hanging up curtains and pictures for your wife you know nothing about tools bozo
I have 5 pieces of Bosch ProCORE18V 4.0 Ah, all the cells are correct, the machines work but they won't charge? The charger has been tested and works properly.
@@GabrielKozsar I have 2 pieces of working Bosch ProCORE18V 4.0 Ah and Bosch ProCORE18V 8.0 Ah with which I tested the charger. In addition. These 5 defective battery have something in common, which is that they do not show the charge status. All LEDs are dead, most likely a serial electronics fault???
@@GabrielKozsar I have several Bosch machines and all the batteries worked well and did not discharge below 2.5V per cell. It is interesting that all defective batteries have very close production dates, as if it were a serial error? A small tip, when changing the cells of the Bosch ProCore, it is useful to heat the plastic for a short time (the expansion of plastic is x times greater than that of metal). Greetings from Switzerland
